'Wolfs 2' Nixed at Apple TV+ Because Director 'No Longer Trusted' Apple

[sw1tcher]

At absolute best, third or fourth off the bat after Amazon, Disney, NetFlix and maybe Google WhateverItsCalled. Sky is big in some geographies too.

Apple TV+ 3rd or 4th? 🤣

If we're looking at video on demand streaming sevices that are available globally and looking at total worldwide subscribers, Apple TV+ comes in 7th or 8th.

1) Netflix
2) Amazon
3) Disney+
4) Max
5) Paramount+
6) Hulu
7) Peacock
8) Apple TV+ ?

Don’t let the door hit you on your way out, Jon Watts.

Apple TV+ has spent $20 Billion on original content

You make it seem as though Apple spending $20 billion on content is supposed to be impressive... until one reads the article you linked to...

In the streaming world, Apple has a reputation for quality, thanks to its Apple TV hardware and Apple TV+ streaming service. The latter is best associated with original shows and movies surrounded by award buzz and critical acclaim. But despite that success, Apple's streaming service has hardly made a dent in the market at a time when interest in streaming services is bigger than ever.

Apple TV+ launched in 2019. Since then, the company has spent over $20 billion to build an impressive library of original content, Bloomberg reported earlier this year. Yet, despite a highly regarded library of shows and movies with big names in acting and directing, Apple TV+ only garnered 0.3 percent of US screen viewing time in June 2024, per Nielsen.

In July, Bloomberg aptly underscored how minimally competitive Apple TV+ is, writing: "Apple TV+ generates less viewing in one month than Netflix does in one day."

Apple doesn’t provide subscriber numbers for Apple TV+, but it's estimated to have 25 million subscribers. That would make it one of the smallest mainstream streaming services. For comparison, Netflix has about 283 million, and Prime Video has over 200 million. Smaller services like Peacock (about 28 million) and Paramount+ (about 72 million) best Apple TV+'s subscriber count, too.


Apple TV+ is pretty bad when it comes to churn rate. Only Discovery+ is worse. I don't know anyone who subscribes to Discovery+

Which Streamer Inspires the Most Devotion? A New Study Says It’s Not Netflix

Netflix is not the streamer with the most loyal subscribers: Amazon Prime video has a lower annual churn rate.

www.indiewire.com

... Discovery+ annual churn rate is a whopping 43 percent.

There’s a pretty big gap between the churn rates of league-leaders Prime Video and Netflix and the other major streaming platforms. From April 1, 2023 to March 31, 2024, Hulu’s churn rate was 15 percent, Max’s (fka HBO Max) was 17 percent, as was Peacock’s; the Disney+ churn rate was 21 percent and Paramount+ was 24 percent.

Apple TV+ barely beat out Discovery+ with a churn rate of 40 percent.

 

[Johnstrass2]

Unfortunately some legacy creators enamored of the old Hollywood system are unable to recognize that the world is shifting away from theaters as many people have very high quality screens at home that provide a better overall viewing experience. The arrogance is sad to see.

And also, perhaps some people are tired of going to the movie theater only to have the people in front of them yakking on their cell phones the whole time

 

[Lynxpoint]

I wouldn’t watch a movie theatrically knowing it will be on streaming in 3 months or less.. I imagine theatrical is pointless not cost effective for streamers.

Same for physical media

But isn't it the case that all (or almost all) theatrical releases are on some service within months?

I must admit I lose track of time when it comes to movie releases. I often think "maybe I should go see that in the theatre", and before I get around to it, it is on the top banner on Netflex or Prime (or I have forgetten about it entirely, I guess).

I like going to the theatre because it is "an escape"... I too easily walk away, fast forward, turn off... movies on streaming services. If I kept a list of partially watched movies, it would be quite impressive for both its length and the number of "highly rated" movies I could not make it through (including the latest Batman and some of the Marvel movies). Yet, somehow, I did watch Wolfs in its entirety and enjoyed it. Then again, it was just another "two old guys bickering and bantering" movie, of which I tend to like that formula. What can I say, cranky old dudes crack me up.

 

[sw1tcher]

This movie wasn't very good, not sure why Apple would want to do a sequel anyway. His Spiderman movies weren't very good either

That's entirely subjective. What's not subjective is how well they did.

Spider-Man: Homecoming
Movie Budget: $175,000,000

< Box office numbers >
Domestic: $334,201,140
International: $545,965,784
Worldwide: $880,166,924


Spider-Man: Far From Home
Movie budget: $160,000,000

< Box office numbers >
Domestic: $390,532,085
International: $741,395,911
Worldwide: $1,131,927,996


Spider-Man: No Way Home
Movie budget: $200,000,000

< Box office numbers >
Domestic: $814,866,759
International: $1,137,831,590
Worldwide: $1,952,723,719

‘Spider-Man: No Way Home’ Hitting $800M Domestic B.O. Milestone; Notches Record 2.1M+ Digital Sales: How The Pic Changed The Industry’s Mindset

'Spider-Man: No Way Home' Hitting $800M Box Office Milestone, sees 2.1M Digital Video sales in first week, which is also a record.

deadline.com

March 26, 2022

Tomorrow, on its 101st day of release, Sony‘s Spider-Man: No Way Home will reach the rare domestic box office milestone of $800M, becoming one of only three movies to do so in Hollywood history after 2015’s Star Wars: Force Awakens ($936.6M) and 2019’s Avengers: Endgame ($858.3M).

At the same time, Deadline hears that the Tom Holland-Zendaya-Benedict Cumberbatch movie sold 2.1M+ units in the U.S. during its first week of digital release, the pic made available on March 15. We’re informed on good authority that’s a digital sales industry record for a movie in its first week, ahead of all previous rival titles.


It's crazy to think that there are that many people out there spending good money to see 3 movies that "weren't very good"

 

[davidg4781]

8 billion people on this planet. They can’t find someone else to direct?

And I watched it. It was alright.

 

[BugeyeSTI]

That's entirely subjective. What's not subjective is how well they did.

Spider-Man: Homecoming
Movie Budget: $175,000,000

< Box office numbers >
Domestic: $334,201,140
International: $545,965,784
Worldwide: $880,166,924


Spider-Man: Far From Home
Movie budget: $160,000,000

< Box office numbers >
Domestic: $390,532,085
International: $741,395,911
Worldwide: $1,131,927,996


Spider-Man: No Way Home
Movie budget: $200,000,000

< Box office numbers >
Domestic: $814,866,759
International: $1,137,831,590
Worldwide: $1,952,723,719

I never said they didn't make the studio money.. Hell, Avengers Endgame grossed $2,799,439,100 alone!

 

[arries]

While the action comedy film "Wolfs" recently became the most-viewed movie in Apple TV+ history, plans for a sequel have been canceled.

In an interview shared by Deadline today, Wolfs director Jon Watts said he canceled the sequel because he "no longer trusted" Apple as a creative partner.

Watts told the publication that Apple made a last-minute decision to pivot away from widely releasing the movie in theaters, without discussing that decision with him in advance. He also said that Apple ignored his request to not mention the planned "Wolfs" sequel in its press release regarding the movie switching to a limited, one-week theatrical release before becoming available to stream on Apple TV+.

Apple announced that a "Wolfs" sequel was planned in an August press release. Apple's head of feature films Matt Dentler said the company was "excited to see fans embrace the movie as we start working with Jon on the sequel."

Here is the full quote from Watts explaining why the sequel is off the table:This drama might be enough for an Apple TV+ movie of its own!

"Wolfs" stars Brad Pitt and George Clooney as two professional "fixers" who are assigned to cover up a high-profile crime. The two "lone wolves" are forced to work together, despite not wanting to, and comedy ensues. The movie also stars Amy Ryan.

The movie debuted in select theaters on September 20, and on Apple TV+ a week later.

Watts is best known for directing the "Spider-Man" films within the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Article Link: 'Wolfs 2' Nixed at Apple TV+ Because Director 'No Longer Trusted' Apple

I don't know the whole story, but they have a lot of people working on the streaming, so communication problems can happen. People are also allowed to change their minds, unless maybe it was stated in the contract. It's nice that the payment was returned, though.

 

[Rradcircless]

There is an existential kind of horror that comes with the streaming landscape. There was once a Disney+ exclusive show I liked watching a couple years ago which mustn’t have been popular enough because Disney removed the show and, that it was an exclusive, there’s no longer any way to watch it.

It sucks as an audience but think how uncomfortable that kind of unpredictability would be for artists. Specifically I’ve heard a couple of directors saying they felt Apple short changed them. Artists in Hollywood must be pretty wary around streaming services.

 

[John_Blackthorne]

What a spoiled, crying little baby. Apple stuffed a lot of money in this man's pockets and offered to keep stuffing even more into them, and this baby is whining about a theatrical release. Buddy, it is 2024--NOBODY GOES TO THE MOVIES TO WATCH THINGS LIKE "Wolves."

You go to the theatre for a Marvel movie.

Ungrateful.

 

[sw1tcher]

I never said they didn't make the studio money.. Hell, Avengers Endgame grossed $2,799,439,100 alone!

I understand that. Do movies that aren't very good tend to do well in ticket sales? No. But they all did. And each one did better than the prior.

Don't want to measure how not very good the movies are based on ticket sales? Ok. Let's look at reviews/ratings then.

Spider-Man: Homecoming
Tomatometer: 92%
Popcornmeter: 87%

Spider-Man: Far From Home
Tomatometer: 91%
Popcornmeter: 95%

Spider-Man: No Way Home
Tomatometer: 93%
Popcornmeter: 97%


Or is there some other metric you prefer?

 

[jujoje]

The movie got poor early reviews and word of mouth was that it wasn't any good, its stars were phoning it in and that it was a bit of a misfire. It's not entirely surprising that Apple canceled the theatrical release - it wouldn't have made commercial sense, and it's not going to put up for any awards.

Making a sequel makes sense in the context of streaming - people are much more forgiving since they've already paid, and will happily watch any popcorn trash (see Ghosted, or Netflix). Would also expect that not to get a theatrical release.

 

[BugeyeSTI]

I understand that. Do movies that aren't very good tend to do well in ticket sales? No. But they all did. And each one did better than the prior.

Don't want to measure how not very good the movies are based on ticket sales? Ok. Let's look at reviews/ratings then.

Spider-Man: Homecoming
Tomatometer: 92%
Popcornmeter: 87%

Spider-Man: Far From Home
Tomatometer: 91%
Popcornmeter: 95%

Spider-Man: No Way Home
Tomatometer: 93%
Popcornmeter: 97%


Or is there some other metric you prefer?

I find reviews from those two metrics about as useful as Amazon reviews. Hey if you like the movies that's fine, if I'm going to watch a Marvel movie there's much better ones to watch IMO.. 2001 A Space Odyssey did not do well at the box office, now it's seen as arguably one of the best sci-fi movies made

 

[Astrohunter]

Most movies on Apple TV+ suck anyway.

 

[HylianKnight]

The only thing you can call Apple TV+ a "major" is a major flop. It stands out as the least interesting of the streaming services on the market. They are all struggling to turn a profit, they are all grasping at anything, but Apple TV+ is perhaps the worst right now.

I disagree with them being a flop. They have consistently churned out quality content, and I don’t get the impression they are grasping. Netflix on the other hand, they have gotten to the point where they seem to green-light all manner of dumpster fire.

 

[HylianKnight]

Disney removed the show and, that it was an exclusive, there’s no longer any way to watch it.

Oh, there is a way…

 

[Karma*Police]

Wow, so many fanboys living in a bubble. ATV+ isn’t even a blip on the streaming services radar. Of course Apple needs creatives more than creatives need them.

In fact, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if the next CEO sells ATV+.

 

[sirdir]

Secretive Apple not being secretive when it’s not about them. Makes sense.

 

[macfacts]

Alienating a major streaming service while Hollywood collapses is a career plan, I guess.

you have some numbers to back up the claim apple tv plus is a "major" streaming service?

 

[Bigskygangsta]

While the action comedy film "Wolfs" recently became the most-viewed movie in Apple TV+ history, plans for a sequel have been canceled.

In an interview shared by Deadline today, Wolfs director Jon Watts said he canceled the sequel because he "no longer trusted" Apple as a creative partner.

Watts told the publication that Apple made a last-minute decision to pivot away from widely releasing the movie in theaters, without discussing that decision with him in advance. He also said that Apple ignored his request to not mention the planned "Wolfs" sequel in its press release regarding the movie switching to a limited, one-week theatrical release before becoming available to stream on Apple TV+.

Apple announced that a "Wolfs" sequel was planned in an August press release. Apple's head of feature films Matt Dentler said the company was "excited to see fans embrace the movie as we start working with Jon on the sequel."

Here is the full quote from Watts explaining why the sequel is off the table:This drama might be enough for an Apple TV+ movie of its own!

"Wolfs" stars Brad Pitt and George Clooney as two professional "fixers" who are assigned to cover up a high-profile crime. The two "lone wolves" are forced to work together, despite not wanting to, and comedy ensues. The movie also stars Amy Ryan.

The movie debuted in select theaters on September 20, and on Apple TV+ a week later.

Watts is best known for directing the "Spider-Man" films within the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Article Link: 'Wolfs 2' Nixed at Apple TV+ Because Director 'No Longer Trusted' Apple

Typical mediocre Clooney and Pitt movie. Watched about 1/3 and turned it off. Sequel, no thanks.

 

[macfacts]

and his biggest mistake was to make Tim Cook CEO LOL, I'm kidding, he had the confidence and the foresight in what TC can do.

his biggest mistke was trying to use acupuncture, dietary supplements and juices to cure his cancer (source his biographer, Walter Isaacson). https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2011/10/24/steve-jobs-cancer-treatment-regrets/

 

[PowerButton]

Apple is paying for it, so they can do whatever they want and they made the right call.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

Alienating a major streaming service while Hollywood collapses is a career plan, I guess.

Artistic integrity requires that an artist be willing to sacrifice their art at the expense of not making money.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Unfortunately some legacy creators enamored of the old Hollywood system are unable to recognize that the world is shifting away from theaters as many people have very high quality screens at home that provide a better overall viewing experience. The arrogance is sad to see.

All of that aside, the problem is Apple told him one thing and then did another.

Apple should not have a “head of feature films.” Apple does not have the culture for this sort of thing. It’s a big distraction.

 

[bousozoku]

Apple don't know when to compromise. They want to dictate terms. We've seen this pattern all over the place. If they want to be a bigger part of the film industry, they'll do better.

 

[Celtic-moniker]

I watched the movie and quite liked it. Unfortunately this turn seems a bit "throwing his toys out of the cot".