Woman in Labor Issued Traffic Ticket

[dukebound85]

I drive on the highway all the time, people always slow down for every abandoned car, they may not do it as much when there's not an accident or flashing lights but I rarely see someone's brake lights stay off when passing by a car on the shoulder. During slow moving rush hour traffic it's just one more distraction for people to look at.

must be different down there as the interstates up here dont slow a second for an abandoned car. i mean its really obvious to recognize an abandoned car as there are quite a bit of them

nobody every brakes so they can look at an abandoned car up here at least and thats my experience of having to commute to denver often

Bringing in the Ambulance would definitely increase the rubbernecking as would a trooper trying to give birth on the side of the road. I don't think their course of action was inherently dangerous or reckless.

i remember on a packed interstate (wasn't moving at all) that an ambulance had to get through and all the cars made room for it quite easily.

but i agree that the cops made the mistake of not proving an escort obviously

 

[atszyman]

no my issue is with cops not offering an escort, not citing them for breaking the law. their job is to not interpret the law but to enforce it

does not mean the cop has to not help out. however, one cant expect to break the law and just not get cited


this would have been the ideal situation in my mind

after the first pull over, the cop escorts them to the hospital to avoid future stoppages and then issues them a citation afterwards

So you don't think officers should have the discretion to issue warnings instead of citations then? Every time someone is pulled over a ticket must be issued regardless of the circumstances?

According to the second article they stopped to ask for permission they did not get pulled over.

They pulled up behind a state trooper to ask whether they could continue using the lane to reach the next exit, near Alewife Station.

...

The Davises say the contretemps occurred after two other troopers they encountered had waved them along in the highway breakdown lane, allowing them to evade gridlock while advising them to be cautious and keep their hazard lights on.

i remember on a packed interstate (wasn't moving at all) that an ambulance had to get through and all the cars made room for it quite easily.

but i agree that the cops made the mistake of not proving an escort obviously

That's one piece of information that's really missing in my mind. How far were they from the hospital at that point? Could they have gotten there faster via their method at that moment than a round trip for the ambulance? If I'm 5 minutes from a hospital in rush hour traffic by using the shoulder of the road and a medical emergency strikes one of my passengers, do I have to wait through an entire 911 call process and round trip ambulance run, even if I can get to the hospital just as fast, if not faster, or can make forward progress easing the Ambulance path and decreasing the time to the hospital?

Labor can quickly become an Ambulance worthy emergency and with all of the uncertainty around it, isn't progressing towards the hospital getting you closer to the Ambulance should it be needed worthy of cautious use of the breakdown lane?

 

[dukebound85]

So you don't think officers should have the discretion to issue warnings instead of citations then? Every time someone is pulled over a ticket must be issued regardless of the circumstances?

According to the second article they stopped to ask for permission they did not get pulled over.

do you not feel that they should not be cited upon after the safe arrival to the hospital?

the fact is they were breaking traffic laws. how is my "ideal" situation not reasonable for you? remeber it was to have the police escort them and then issue them a citation

as ive said, if you dont like the law, lobby for a change. until then be prepared to pay the price for breaking it

 

[atszyman]

do you not feel that they should not be cited upon after the safe arrival to the hospital?

the fact is they were breaking traffic laws. how is my "ideal" situation not reasonable for you? remeber it was to have the police escort them and then issue them a citation

as ive said, if you dont like the law, lobby for a change. until then be prepared to pay the price for breaking it

I never said it was unreasonable, but you didn't answer my question.

If cops are not supposed to do any interpretation of the law, should they be required to pull over everyone who goes even 1 mph over the speed limit? Should they never issue warnings and always issue a citation?

I probably would not have had an issue with the citation being offered at the Hospital, but the third cop made them wait there to get it, after they stopped to ask him if they could do what two previous cops had given the OK.

Who gets to decide what situations the breakdown lane is designated for? Is everyone going to get cited and then have to go to court to determine if their use was permissible?

 

[dukebound85]

depends if the law was being broken intentionally or not

if blatant speeding, no chance for a warning. if blatant illegal use of a breakdown lane, no chance for warning

if speeding by 1mph due to any number of factors such as tires being out of synch with speddomenter or whatnot? id have no real problem with a warning but would not be against a ticket either and then debate it in court

with that said very few if any cops will pull over someone for going one over as its not worth their time so anyone they do pull over for speeding (that the cop made the decison to pull over) should expect a ticket and its the cops duty to give a ticket


to me a breakdown lane is used by cars that are having engine touble, flats, what not. its not a lane to be driving in and thats why they got pulled over to begin with as its against the purpose of the breakdown lane. as such, a citation should be expected as it was blatent disregard for the law

 

[atszyman]

to me a breakdown lane is used by cars that are having engine touble, flats, what not. its not a lane to be driving in and thats why they got pulled over to begin with as its against the purpose of the breakdown lane. as such, a citation should be expected as it was blatent disregard for the law

So if I pull over into the breakdown lane to render aid in an accident where there might be injuries, I'm breaking the law and should be issued a citation? My car is not broken, thus should not be there?

Should emergency vehicles be allowed to drive in it? for what types of emergencies?

Wouldn't a perfectly functional abandoned vehicle be an obstruction for any emergency vehicle that might need passage in the near future? by taking the Ambulance offered by the first cop their car would have now been in the way if another emergency had occurred and required assistance.

 

[dukebound85]

So if I pull over into the breakdown lane to render aid in an accident where there might be injuries, I'm breaking the law and should be issued a citation? My car is not broken, thus should not be there?

there are things as good samaritan laws

Should emergency vehicles be allowed to drive in it? for what types of emergencies?

bad example. emergency vehicles are official. why do you think they can speed and drive though red lights? they arent breaking laws in fact the law allows for them to bypass those laws if on an emergency. the same isnt true for you and me

Wouldn't a perfectly functional abandoned vehicle be an obstruction for any emergency vehicle that might need passage in the near future? by taking the Ambulance offered by the first cop their car would have now been in the way if another emergency had occurred and required assistance.

if the authorities called an ambulance of course its official at that point

you seem to forget that authorities can bypass traffic laws if there is an emergency. those laws however are not there to be bypassed by civilians

 

[xUKHCx]

maybe my driving on a motorcycle has made me have the mindset that safety is of the utmost importance and every step needs to be taken to ensure this

i dont think its a coincidence that motorcyclists are overall the most attentive/careful drivers out there...

Pretty weird safety mindset

i dont expect other civilian cars to be driving recklessly on the roads and if they do, they need to be cited. you cant argue otherwise

all i did was quote what he said. nothing more, nothing less

i guess only some people's lives matter. how sad

All you did was take some said in jest and drag it up from the depths of the thread to try and make a point that you have made quite a few times.

you seem to forget that authorities can bypass traffic laws if there is an emergency. those laws however are not there to be bypassed by civilians

Life is grey and not the black and white letters of the law.

 

[dukebound85]

Pretty weird safety mindset
Life is grey and not the black and white letters of the law.

because you have a higher risk on injury on a bike doesnt not mean they are not more safety minded

you have to anticipate cars every move as their mistake will injure you. how many car drivers talk on the cell phone while driving? loads and that means they arent paying attention. same cant be said for bikes as they cant use them in the first place.

a minor car crash will most often result in very little if any injuries. the same cant be said for an individual on a bike

obviously you dont ride a bike

All you did was take some said in jest and drag it up from the depths of the thread to try and make a point that you have made quite a few times.

im not the one who made such a selfish comment now did i? in jest? sure sounded serious to me

 

[atszyman]

there are things as good samaritan laws

But who gets to decide if I was being a good samaritan or just pulling over for a smoke break. You seem to take issue with the cops using compassion and discretion in this instance. Would it have been OK had their gas guage been on Empty and they were trying to get to the next exit to fill-up?

bad example. emergency vehicles are official. why do you think they can speed and drive though red lights? they arent breaking laws in fact the law allows for them to bypass those laws if on an emergency. the same isnt true for you and me.

if the authorities called an ambulance of course its official at that point

you seem to forget that authorities can bypass traffic laws if there is an emergency. those laws however are not there to be bypassed by civilians

They asked two prior cops for permission to do what they were doing and got the OK from them, they even asked the third who instead of saying "I'm sorry you can't do that" decided to issue them a citation based on what the other two cops said was OK. Cops get to use their discretion all the time to decide whether or not something is a violation or not. The first two decided that it was a valid use, the third was a prick forcing them to prove pregnancy and wait while a citation was issued.

I would have no issues if he had followed them to the Hospital, or if he had told them he would mail the citation, but they only wanted to get to the next exit in a situation that can easily turn into an ambulance worthy emergency, and having them off the highway would be safer for everyone should it have become ambulance worthy.

 

[Big-TDI-Guy]

I will side with duke on the motorcycle bit. I don't know a single rider who isn't ultra attentive when not in a cage. I know many people who don't engage in risk-taking behavior, but STILL ride motorcycles. I don't mean to derail this thread any further - but I disagree on pointing the finger of risk at people who aren't in cages, just because, they aren't in cages.

 

[dukebound85]

But who gets to decide if I was being a good samaritan or just pulling over for a smoke break. You seem to take issue with the cops using compassion and discretion in this instance. Would it have been OK had their gas guage been on Empty and they were trying to get to the next exit to fill-up?

the cops will be able to tell if you were breaking the law or not

They asked two prior cops for permission to do what they were doing and got the OK from them, they even asked the third who instead of saying "I'm sorry you can't do that" decided to issue them a citation based on what the other two cops said was OK. Cops get to use their discretion all the time to decide whether or not something is a violation or not. The first two decided that it was a valid use, the third was a prick forcing them to prove pregnancy and wait while a citation was issued.

I would have no issues if he had followed them to the Hospital, or if he had told them he would mail the citation, but they only wanted to get to the next exit in a situation that can easily turn into an ambulance worthy emergency, and having them off the highway would be safer for everyone should it have become ambulance worthy.

then the cop should have followed them if they didnt want further stoppage. you cant blame a cop who didnt know about the permission when hes doing his job

 

[atszyman]

the cops will be able to tell if you were breaking the law or not

But wouldn't that require them to interpret the law rather than just enforce?

then the cop should have followed them if they didnt want further stoppage. you cant blame a cop who didnt know about the permission when hes doing his job

They stopped to ask him, he didn't pull them over, they did everything they could to make sure that they weren't in violation of the law and he was out of line demanding proof of pregnancy and then making them wait there for the citation.

I'm fine with the citation (mostly) but his other actions were way out of line for someone in an urgent, beyond normal need, situation.

 

[xUKHCx]

because you have a higher risk on injury on a bike doesnt not mean they are not more safety minded

you have to anticipate cars every move as their mistake will injure you. how many car drivers talk on the cell phone while driving? loads and that means they arent paying attention. same cant be said for bikes as they cant use them in the first place.

a minor car crash will most often result in very little if any injuries. the same cant be said for an individual on a bike

obviously you dont ride a bike

I don't see how this is a response to what I wrote. You clearly said you don't expect people to driving recklessly. And this is a safe way to drive how?

Actually I do ride but I use my legs for propulsion rather than an engine. I even walk places and cross roads. All the while I expect drivers, pedestrians, animals to move recklessly.

in jest? sure sounded serious to me

Well it does sound serious if you take the letter of what was written which is what the theme of this thread is.


As I said life is grey. Do you treat people you deal with exactly the same or do you look at extra factors? If everyone took the letter of the law the world would be in a much worse state. I would rather live in a place where the cops are compassionate human beings and not drones, sometimes we all need a blonde hammer tosser.

then the cop should have followed them if they didnt want further stoppage. you cant blame a cop who didnt know about the permission when hes doing his job

Yes but you can blame him for being a jobsworth.

 

[dukebound85]

But wouldn't that require them to interpret the law rather than just enforce?

no, it would be enforcing the law. if they see you using the lane in an illegal manner they will cite you. if they see you using it in a leagl manner, they wont.

thats not the same as seeing an individual break the law and letting it slide...

They stopped to ask him, he didn't pull them over, they did everything they could to make sure that they weren't in violation of the law and he was out of line demanding proof of pregnancy and then making them wait there for the citation.

I'm fine with the citation (mostly) but his other actions were way out of line for someone in an urgent, beyond normal need, situation.

obviously they were violating the law as they ran into 3 cops along the way concerning it.

its teh cops mistake for not escorting them to avoid those other 2 stoppages

 

[Tilpots]

im not the one who made such a selfish comment now did i? in jest? sure sounded serious to me

For the record, I was being facetious in that particular post. I have never run over a pedistrian, bicyclist, motorcyclist or any other person for that matter and I will make every attempt to keep this fact true. I did run over a squirrel once, but it ran out in front of me and I had no choice.

My wife is pregnant and due Jan 1. I will get her to the hospital as quickly and safely as possible. I hope I will not need to break any city, county, state or federal laws to accomplish this, but I reserve my God given right to use my best judgement if neccesity arises, just as this couple did.

 

[sangosimo]

she is exempt from all rules because she is shooting a creature out of her vagina.

 

[atszyman]

no, it would be enforcing the law. if they see you using the lane in an illegal manner they will cite you. if they see you using it in a leagl manner, they wont.

thats not the same as seeing an individual break the law and letting it slide...

So if the law doesn't explicitly spell out flat tires as a valid use for the breakdown lane, it doesn't require some interpretation to come to the conclusion that a fully functional car with one flat tire that could limp to an exit 400 feet away is in legal use of the breakdown lane? If they are to go by the letter of the law any use that is not explicitly spelled out is illegal use. Anything else would be interpretation beyond the letter of the law, which by your logic should not be allowed.

obviously they were violating the law as they ran into 3 cops along the way concerning it.

its teh cops mistake for not escorting them to avoid those other 2 stoppages

They stopped to ask the cops if it was OK, they didn't get pulled over for it. Two of the cops said it was a valid use of the lane and let them go, the third, maybe rightly so, decided it was invalid but then proved to be an a$$hat demanding proof of pregnancy and forcing them to wait for the ticket.

 

[dukebound85]

I don't see how this is a response to what I wrote. You clearly said you don't expect people to driving recklessly. And this is a safe way to drive how?

it is a response to what you wrote. you claimed that my safety midset is flawed by me riding a bike but wanting any steps to crack down on illegal driving enforced

Actually I do ride but I use my legs for propulsion rather than an engine. I even walk places and cross roads. All the while I expect drivers, pedestrians, animals to move recklessly.

hence why i said those on motorcycles have a higher saftey mindset. this does not mean steps should not be taken to allow for illgeal driving
[/quote]

As I said life is grey. Do you treat people you deal with exactly the same or do you look at extra factors? If everyone took the letter of the law the world would be in a much worse state. I would rather live in a place where the cops are compassionate human beings and not drones, sometimes we all need a blonde hammer tosser.

allowing people to break traffic laws and endangering others is a tad different dont you think. i suppose i want the cops to do their jobs and make the roads safer tahn allow for people to break road laws and endanger others

 

[xUKHCx]

I am closing this thread. It has served its purpose.