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Woman in Labor Issued Traffic Ticket

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I don't have an issue with the cop ticketing the pregnant couple. They could have taken the ambulance if they truly wanted to get to the hospital faster. However, I do take issue with the cop forcing the woman to show her stomach to prove she was pregnant. If they had something to hide, I don't think they would have pulled over to ask him if they could continue in the emergency lane.

He should have wrote the ticket and kept it moving. The other stuff was extra and him being an ass.
 
heehee said:
Sigh... If you actually read the articles, the baby's life was not "on the line".

Why would she go to a hospital 30 miles away and why would she drop her other son off to school first before going to a hospital if her baby's life was "on the line"?

They knew it was rush hour and they had been saying that for 10 months "As long as I don't go into labor during rush hour."



ARTICLE
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You have to do something with your existing children, you can't just have kids running all over the delivery room, and hospitals don't usually have supervised child care areas on-site. If it was time for them to get dropped off at school, why not use that? It would probably take just as long, if not longer, to arrange other care than just dropping them off at school.

30 miles is not an exorbitant distance to go to the hospital where your doctor who has been doing checkups every few weeks for the last nine months and knows everything about your pregnancy and possible/probable complications. Rush hours can vary greatly in their speed and traffic, the article does not say if it was just a normal rush hour, but how do you know that this rush hour wasn't hindered by an accident that might have delayed them for an hour or more? Would it really have been that much safer to call an ambulance, abandon their car in the breakdown lane (thus providing an obstruction if another emergency vehicle needed to get through) and how much time would it have saved to get the ambulance there and to the hospital?

I don't necessarily have an issue with the officer issuing a ticket, but would rather have had him escort/follow them to the hospital and issue it there rather than delay them further, let them appeal to the court if they feel that the ticket was unjust. Of course the first officer should have escorted them or radioed ahead to avoid any further delays due to other cops. At that point they already had the license plate and probably driver's information. They could always have mailed the ticket later if they really thought that they were just scamming the system.
 
atszyman said:
You have to do something with your existing children, you can't just have kids running all over the delivery room, and hospitals don't usually have supervised child care areas on-site. If it was time for them to get dropped off at school, why not use that? It would probably take just as long, if not longer, to arrange other care than just dropping them off at school.
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yet when i was 10 and brothers were 8 and 5, we were all there when my youngest brother was born

i agree, they should have been escorted
 
Okay, for those folks who maybe don't know how the whole birthing process goes:

1. Prenatal visits with doctor. Months and months of these, plus visits with other docs who might be on call when you go into labor. These doctors are familiar with the case, and specific needs of the mother, plus any complications that may be involved.

2. Woman finally goes into labor, the doctor is called when the contractions are 5 minutes apart. That is when you are supposed to head to the hospital, depending on how far away it is. Some doctors have different stipulations as to how far apart the contractions should be, depending on the mother's situation.

3. I can very well see dropping the son off at school before heading to the hospital. They probably thought they had plenty of time, and maybe the school was on the way. Much better for the older child to be at school. Plus, even if he hadn't had school, they either would have had to drop him off somewhere, or wait for a baby sitter or relative to arrive.

4. Here's the tricky part of having a baby: it's not a strictly scheduled process. Just because the contractions may be 7 minutes apart for an hour doesn't mean they are going to consistently get closer together. You can go from 7 minutes to 2 minutes very quickly, and no two births are alike. My sister went from being dilated to 5 to 10 in about 20 minutes, after taking a couple of hours to get to 5. You never know how long it's going to take. You can guess, but it's best to err on the side of caution.

5. Not all hospitals are alike. Some are better equipped for birthing than others. Some have better doctors, more experience in handling problems, etc. You do what you can to give your children and the mom the best possible chance.

With labor, you never know what is going to happen, and the difference between a healthy birth for both mother and child or having something go terribly wrong is slim. Cautiously driving the breakdown lane at a steady pace is infinitely safer than being stuck in traffic for both child and mom. Plus, how many officers do you know who really WANT to deliver a baby on the side of a road? I'll bet you'd have a hard time finding one who really wants that to happen.

P.S. For all of you harping on strict adherence to the law, do you drive exactly, or under, the speed limit at all times? After all, speeding contributes to accidents...
 
The kid in question will be starting school before this thread ends. :rolleyes:
 
dukebound85 said:
yet when i was 10 and brothers were 8 and 5, we were all there when my youngest brother was born

i agree, they should have been escorted
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You were in the delivery room? Impressive, I wasn't aware that they allowed kids in there due to sanitary/infection risks. I have a 4 year old and a 19 month old right now and one due at the end of Feb. We're definitely going to take the time to find someone to watch them since I doubt we'd have much control over them in all of the activity, especially the 19 month old, she's a bit of a handful when it comes to places she might like to "explore."

I still would like to know why it is that driving at a reasonable rate in the breakdown lane is so dangerous. Sure it's meant for stopped vehicles and emergency vehicles but so are the other traffic lanes. There could be a stopped car in any lane on any highway and emergency vehicles can be using any open lane. Driving at a reasonable speed in the breakdown lane in an urgent situation, like being in labor, is not any more dangerous than driving in any other lane.

The article is a bit vague as well, how far had they driven on the highway covering the 3 officers? where was the nearest exit from the first officer stop? How close were they to the destination hospital at the final stop?

For all we know it could have been a stretch where exits were few and far between, and the officers happened to be tightly clustered, they might have been trying to exit to use side roads and avoid the congestion, or the final officer may have stopped them at a point where the nearest hospital was their destination. If the officer didn't ask, how did he know they weren't going to the nearest hospital from their starting point? Not everyone starts going into labor at their house.

There are a lot of unanswered questions here, I'm not even sure I believe that all three cops were state troopers. I'd be more inclined to believe that the first two might have been city or county cops, and thus a little more lenient and it might explain why the trooper did not know about them, or maybe he did and decided that they've been in the breakdown lane too long without trying to get off the highway to find an alternate route, maybe they were speeding in the breakdown lane in which case they should have gotten the ticket.

A lot of questions that could really shed light on this seem to be missing, but that seems to be the norm for media these days, omit any details that might make the story less shocking.

dukebound85 said:
my issue is let me repeat, having the cops perform the role as judges and not issuing tickets when they were breaking the law

thankfully the third cop came to his senses
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Cops do this all the time in deciding whether or not to issue a warning or a ticket, or whether or not to pull over someone going 5 mph over the speed limit or not, why should this situation warrant any more scrutiny than those?
 
atszyman said:
You were in the delivery room? Impressive, I wasn't aware that they allowed kids in there due to sanitary/infection risks.
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no i was in the waiting room. why would you think this case would be any different?

did you really assume these kids would be in the delivery room and not the waiting room?

Cops do this all the time in deciding whether or not to issue a warning or a ticket, or whether or not to pull over someone going 5 mph over the speed limit or not, why should this situation warrant any more scrutiny than those?
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if it makes you feel better, i dont support that either
 
dukebound85 said:
no i was in the waiting room. why would you think this case would be any different?

did you really assume these kids would be in the delivery room and not the waiting room?
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Yes, in some situations. My daughter was with me the whole time; she was 10. But, we had a private room; another reason to drive longer to the hospital of choice, where all the paperwork has already been filed and the doctors and nurses know you.
 
dukebound85 said:
no i was in the waiting room. why would you think this case would be any different?

did you really assume these kids would be in the delivery room and not the waiting room?
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How old was the kid, who was going to be watching him in the waiting room? Not everyone has kids who are old enough to wait by themselves, or close friends relatives who can get to the waiting room to watch the kids. School may have been their best option at that point.
 
dukebound85 said:
artical said 7
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Yeah, I just saw that reading the second article, which also said they asked to use the lane just to get to the next exit which seems reasonable to me that they might have been seeking alternate routes. Seven isn't what I would consider old enough to supervise themselves in a hospital waiting room, and in the absence of friends/family who are available to meet you at the hospital, other arrangements need to be made, if school was open at that point, why not get the kid to school? Other arrangements (other than someone meeting you at the hospital) would take just as long.

He was also stopping to ask the trooper whether it was OK to do this rather than waiting to be pulled over, it does not sound like they were being reckless, just trying to get to the hospital as quickly and safely as possible.
 
atszyman said:
Yeah, I just saw that reading the second article, which also said they asked to use the lane just to get to the next exit which seems reasonable to me that they might have been seeking alternate routes.

He was also stopping to ask the trooper whether it was OK to do this rather than waiting to be pulled over, it does not sound like they were being reckless, just trying to get to the hospital as quickly and safely as possible.
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That seals it for me. The cop gets P-Worm's Dick Seal of Approval©.

P-Worm
 
atszyman said:
Yeah, I just saw that reading the second article, which also said they asked to use the lane just to get to the next exit which seems reasonable to me that they might have been seeking alternate routes. Seven isn't what I would consider old enough to supervise themselves in a hospital waiting room, and in the absence of friends/family who are available to meet you at the hospital, other arrangements need to be made, if school was open at that point, why not get the kid to school? Other arrangements (other than someone meeting you at the hospital) would take just as long.

He was also stopping to ask the trooper whether it was OK to do this rather than waiting to be pulled over, it does not sound like they were being reckless, just trying to get to the hospital as quickly and safely as possible.
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assuming that the 7 year old was already dropped off, i think the officer should have escorted them to the hospital rather than have them coninue to drive in the lane where they got pulled over 2 additional times
 
dukebound85 said:
assuming that the 7 year old was already dropped off, i think the officer should have escorted them to the hospital rather than have them coninue to drive in the lane where they got pulled over 2 additional times
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I agree, but the second article doesn't say they were pulled over, it says that they stopped when they encountered law enforcement to ask if it was OK to use the lane to reach the next exit. There's a big difference between that and getting pulled over. The first two cops should have offered escort, the third was being more than a bit of a prick.

All he could have done was say, "I'm sorry, that's not OK, would you like me to arrange other authorized emergency transportation, or escort?"

Instead he made her prove she was pregnant and then made them wait to write the ticket, that was not cool.
 
atszyman said:
I agree, but the second article doesn't say they were pulled over, it says that they stopped when they encountered law enforcement to ask if it was OK to use the lane to reach the next exit. There's a big difference between that and getting pulled over. The first two cops should have offered escort, the third was being more than a bit of a prick.

All he could have done was say, "I'm sorry, that's not OK, would you like me to arrange other authorized emergency transportation, or escort?"

Instead he made her prove she was pregnant and then made them wait to write the ticket, that was not cool.
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one of the cops did ask that and the couple refused to have that arrangement. the cop should have arranged for it/escorted them regardless

"He asked if I needed an ambulance, I said 'No. If I keep moving," John Davis said
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dukebound85 said:
one of the cops did ask that and the couple refused to have that arrangement
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He offered an ambulance, not an escort, I doubt they would have turned down an escort, is it possible they didn't want to just abandon their car in the breakdown lane? or wait for an ambulance to find it's way through rush hour traffic? or maybe they didn't want to tie up an ambulance that could be needed for more life threatening situations, when their current course, as long as it was permitted (which that officer also did), would accomplish.

From what I've seen, a stopped car in the breakdown lane can cause more issues from rubberneckers in rush hour than what making sure they could proceed safely would have been.
 
atszyman said:
He offered an ambulance, not an escort, I doubt they would have turned down an escort, is it possible they didn't want to just abandon their car in the breakdown lane? or wait for an ambulance to find it's way through rush hour traffic? or maybe they didn't want to tie up an ambulance that could be needed for more life threatening situations, when their current course, as long as it was permitted (which that officer also did), would accomplish.
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according to some, this is a life threatening situation. so much that others in this thread would have no issue running over pedestrians on sidewalks or bicyclists

the cop made a mistake of not offereing an escort. remember my issue is with the cops behavior afterall

From what I've seen, a stopped car in the breakdown lane can cause more issues from rubberneckers in rush hour than what making sure they could proceed safely would have been.
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oh come on, there are abandoned cars all the time on the interstate. the only situation which causes rubbernecking is when you have a crash
 
The response "I don't need an ambulance if I keep moving" sounds very reasonable to me. Why tie up an ambulance when you don't have to? Just so a minor traffic violation can be avoided. I hope someone didn't truly need that ambulance while we were obeying the law to the T.

P-Worm
 
P-Worm said:
Your issue is with cops giving mercy.

P-Worm
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no my issue is with cops not offering an escort, not citing them for breaking the law. their job is to not interpret the law but to enforce it

does not mean the cop has to not help out. however, one cant expect to break the law and just not get cited


this would have been the ideal situation in my mind

after the first pull over, the cop escorts them to the hospital to avoid future stoppages and then issues them a citation afterwards
 
dukebound85 said:
oh come on, there are abandoned cars all the time on the interstate. the only situation which causes rubbernecking is when you have a crash
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I drive on the highway all the time, people always slow down for every abandoned car, they may not do it as much when there's not an accident or flashing lights but I rarely see someone's brake lights stay off when passing by a car on the shoulder. During slow moving rush hour traffic it's just one more distraction for people to look at.

If the breakdown lane is permitted for people who have to limp off the highway with a low speed spare, or in order to reach the next exit because they're almost out of gas, or their car is sputtering and ready to become a roadblock, why not allow for getting to the next exit when there is some medical urgency to do so? And why make them wait for a ticket when they came to ask you if it was OK. It would be like me giving my daughter a time out when she asks to have a cookie as if she had already just taken it, even worse if she had my wife's permission to have the cookie.

Bringing in the Ambulance would definitely increase the rubbernecking as would a trooper trying to give birth on the side of the road. I don't think their course of action was inherently dangerous or reckless.

The cops made mistakes on all fronts. I think the first two officers made mistakes by not offering escort, but the third made a more grievous mistake by not only refusing escort but by issuing a ticket and needing proof of pregnancy. They are "state" troopers after all, unless they were going to an out of state hospital, escorting them to the hospital 30 miles away would have still left them in their jurisdiction.
 
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