Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[cfc]

As you are looking at the navigation features of WOD I’d like to suggest another feature. The latest Garmin beta has added the distance to the next fork in the path, even when you don’t have a route loaded. Can you use your map data to produce something similar?

That would have been really handy for me over the weekend! We made the classic mistake of wandering along and chatting, and missed the turn we wanted to make. A subtle alert and bit of haptics when we got close to each fork would have been really nice!

Sounds a good idea. I may look into it at some time but my initial navigation improvements will be focussed on the data in the route rather than the map data. That would be a lot more work.

 

[cfc]

You added ThunderForest maps for topo maps. Mapbox also has an Outdoors map set. Was that an option you considers adding too?

Thanks in advance.

The last time I looked at the Mapbox vector data I would have had to pay extra for the topo details, which is why I switched to Thunderforest. I am pretty happy with that at the moment so don't plan to look into using Mapbox for topo data in the near future.

Thanks for the heads up though. I want to have at least two map sources in case one of them becomes unavailable for some reason, so I may implement topo data from Mapbox too, as a backup. I used a company 5 years ago that went bust, which meant a couple of frantic weeks switching to Mapbox, so I will try to keep offering more than one map source, and it would be good if both sources showed topo maps.

 

[Starrtech2000]

This is on my To-Do list. As is switching GPS off when paused, which would prevent it. Both will probably be optional in the future.

Great. Thank you. This is a massively convenient feature because people like me who mountain bike and hike in dense forest areas can’t rely on Auto-pause since GPS inaccuracy can keep stopping the workout recording.

I agree it should definitely be an optional feature.

 

[Starrtech2000]

My worry is that just having an in-app purchase would deter some people from buying the app, because it already has the initial cost. In retrospect I know that many users would like it, but I know that I am always slightly suspicious of apps with in-app purchases, expecting that "the good stuff" would only be available if you pay more.

At the moment the Thunderforest topo maps are relatively new to the app, so they are not the default. I plan to make them the default when I am sure my rendering code for them is stable enough (and so far so good). They have a different payment model than Mapbox, which would give more flexibility for larger downloads. So when they are the default then I can revisit the download sizes. I plan to look into this after I have supported the always on display and improved the navigation (which are still my main priorities).

I understand your worry and there are always people who bitch about having to pay for the hard work that small developers put into an app but I use many apps every day that have additional niche features locked behind in app purchases. As long as you clearly communicate exactly what those are in the App Store and in an in app purchase screen, you’d be right in line with hundreds of thousands of other apps.

 

[noel18]

My worry is that just having an in-app purchase would deter some people from buying the app, because it already has the initial cost. In retrospect I know that many users would like it, but I know that I am always slightly suspicious of apps with in-app purchases, expecting that "the good stuff" would only be available if you pay more.

At the moment the Thunderforest topo maps are relatively new to the app, so they are not the default. I plan to make them the default when I am sure my rendering code for them is stable enough (and so far so good). They have a different payment model than Mapbox, which would give more flexibility for larger downloads. So when they are the default then I can revisit the download sizes. I plan to look into this after I have supported the always on display and improved the navigation (which are still my main priorities).

What turns me off to apps with in app purchases is the lack of transparency. They rarely explain what the costs are and what you get for them. You typically have to look at the list of in app purchases and guess what each one is for. Most of the time they will be something like this:
1.99 Super Pack
4.99 Super Pack
14.99 Super Pack
.99 Extremally Super Pack

I think if you were really clear in the app description that the in app purchases are ONLY for the map tiles and then named the in app purchase properly, people wouldn't get turned off.

Just my 2c.

 

[cfc]

I understand your worry and there are always people who bitch about having to pay for the hard work that small developers put into an app but I use many apps every day that have additional niche features locked behind in app purchases. As long as you clearly communicate exactly what those are in the App Store and in an in app purchase screen, you’d be right in line with hundreds of thousands of other apps.

Maybe I will add an in-app purchase or even a subscription one day, but I don't want to do it at the moment.

If the app gets well-known enough and hopefully trusted enough then people will know that any extra payments are only for features with on-going costs, and will understand that if you don't need such features then you won't have to pay any more. But I don't think that is the case at the moment.

 

[IchBinEsNur]

There is an automation when switching to or from the Fitness focus profile. The automation will run anytime a workout is started and stopped, regardless of which app it is. This may or may not work for your needs though. This is how I run my automations.

Thanks a lot! Tried it today and it works great.

 

[cfc]

What turns me off to apps with in app purchases is the lack of transparency. They rarely explain what the costs are and what you get for them. You typically have to look at the list of in app purchases and guess what each one is for. Most of the time they will be something like this:
1.99 Super Pack
4.99 Super Pack
14.99 Super Pack
.99 Extremally Super Pack

I think if you were really clear in the app description that the in app purchases are ONLY for the map tiles and then named the in app purchase properly, people wouldn't get turned off.

Just my 2c.

I think that would work when people have the app, and realise that it is already pretty good value for money, but my worry is that people considering buying it in the first place will be deterred by the mere existence of any extra purchases.

I am certainly not ruling it out because I would love to add features with on-going costs. I just don't think the app is quite there yet. My current plan is that when I have supported the AOD and improved navigation then I will consider my options. Maybe by then the app will have enough of a user base that the extra purchases from them would offset the potential initial buyers who were deterred by the presence of an extra purchase.

Note that nothing that is included in the app now would ever be made part of an IAP or subscription. It would only be for extra features that require on-going costs, such as larger map areas, satellite maps, weather, route creation etc.

 

[Mauki]

For my part, I'm happy to pay a little more for a good app.
But what I don't buy are apps that only work with a subscription and apps with app-in-purchases. Most of the time, exactly the function you need is hidden behind an expensive app-in purchase.
With regard to WOD, if the app-in purchase was limited to the additional large maps, I wouldn't care. As long as I can download the few tiles of maps I run for free.

If that doesn't work, WOD would no longer be interesting for me and I think me and other users will then look for an alternative.

Even if there are none at the moment, I think the Apple Watch Ultra will certainly push the development of such apps.

 

[firewire9000]

Speaking of maps, why are you not using Open Street Maps like Komoot?

 

[cfc]

Speaking of maps, why are you not using Open Street Maps like Komoot?

The app does use OpenStreetMap. Both Mapbox and Thunderforest get their map data from OpenStreetMap. They use other sources as well but the bulk of the data comes from OSM.

 

[Mauki]

Speaking of maps, why are you not using Open Street Maps like Komoot?

Komoot maps are great 👍😊

 

[desimaniac]

The last time I looked at the Mapbox vector data I would have had to pay extra for the topo details, which is why I switched to Thunderforest. I am pretty happy with that at the moment so don't plan to look into using Mapbox for topo data in the near future.

Thanks for the heads up though. I want to have at least two map sources in case one of them becomes unavailable for some reason, so I may implement topo data from Mapbox too, as a backup. I used a company 5 years ago that went bust, which meant a couple of frantic weeks switching to Mapbox, so I will try to keep offering more than one map source, and it would be good if both sources showed topo maps.

Thanks Ian. I didn’t realize MB was more pricier than TF, as you stated in an earlier comment. TBH, I like TF so me asking about MB Outdoors was just out curiosity more than anything else.

 

[cfc]

Thanks Ian. I didn’t realize MB was more pricier than TF, as you stated in an earlier comment. TBH, I like TF so me asking about MB Outdoors was just out curiosity more than anything else.

The main reason that Mapbox is pricier is because they provide lots of features that I don't need. For example they have loads of fantastic map rendering functions on the iPhone (not the watch) when all I need is the raw vector data because I render the maps in my code. Thunderforest only charge for the raw data, so I am not paying for stuff that I don't need.

Mapbox also provide lots of great extra features (at an extra cost) so I may use them more in the future if I do ever add an in-app purchase or subscription for such features with on-going costs. For example satellite maps, route creation etc. But, again, I have no plans for that at the moment.

 

[jole]

My worry is that just having an in-app purchase would deter some people from buying the app, because it already has the initial cost. In retrospect I know that many users would like it, but I know that I am always slightly suspicious of apps with in-app purchases, expecting that "the good stuff" would only be available if you pay more.

Every other developer is charging arm-n-leg and the users are complaining. WOD is the opposite.

I really appreciate that you think of us users, but now that we the users are pushing you to charge us more for your excellent app, maybe there is something in it 🙂

I would love to be able to purchase per state maps like the ones GuruMaps is offering on iPhone (separate downloads for map and routing). Or what Garmin has built-in. Especially if WOD would include turn-by-turn routing (like GuruMaps and Garmin). I am sure that someone will offer this on Watch. I will buy from whomever will deliver this feature first.

 

[jole]

Komoot maps are great 👍😊

Komoot routing has got me in trouble many times due to inaccuracies regarding private roads and gates.

 

[jole]

Thinking purely as a user, I would like to see WOD stick to pay-once-use-forever pricing. Something like:

• Current app pricing as-is, including small offline map downloads in the way it is today.
• "Perpetually unlocking" offline maps with routing: $7 / country (EU) or state (US).

I would expect people to get hooked with the original app and then start buying additional areas one by one when they travel.

 

[jole]

Thinking myself as a business owner, I would switch WOD to $5 / month subscriptions - only bringing new features to the subscription version and renaming+unlisting the current version. As a user who already paid once (years ago), I would not like the switch, but I would keep paying until Apple offers offline maps and catches up with other features where I find WOD superior.

 

[firewire9000]

The app does use OpenStreetMap. Both Mapbox and Thunderforest get their map data from OpenStreetMap. They use other sources as well but the bulk of the data comes from OSM.

Ok now I understand why I never saw a mismatch between the WOD maps why I import a GPX route from Komoot.

 

[cfc]

Every other developer is charging arm-n-leg and the users are complaining. WOD is the opposite.

I really appreciate that you think of us users, but now that we the users are pushing you to charge us more for your excellent app, maybe there is something in it 🙂

I would love to be able to purchase per state maps like the ones GuruMaps is offering on iPhone (separate downloads for map and routing). Or what Garmin has built-in. Especially if WOD would include turn-by-turn routing (like GuruMaps and Garmin). I am sure that someone will offer this on Watch. I will buy from whomever will deliver this feature first.

I must admit that I am considering increasing the initial price by one level in the next version because so many people have said that the app is too cheap. But no subscriptions or extra purchases.

 

[MitzEclipse]

As others have said it sounds like you need an improved Apple Maps or Google Maps, rather than a workout app like WOD. Turn by turn is in my plans (initially only if the directions are in the GPX file as @Mauki says) but routing to an address is unlikely, certainly in the short to medium term.

Thanks for the input. Shame. I don't think Apple Maps or Google Maps will improve the navigation-to-an-address experience anytime soon so was hoping for a cool 3rd party software to lean on. oh well

 

[firewire9000]

I must admit that I am considering increasing the initial price by one level in the next version because so many people have said that the app is too cheap. But no subscriptions or extra purchases.

I honestly think that the app is too cheap. My business model to choose it would be something like Komoot. App free to use, one time payment for offline maps and navigation and subscription for a more advanced features. Or maybe one time payment with the current features and a subscription for more advanced features.

 

[JBinPDX]

I've noticed this a couple of times... sometimes the POI names are gigantic on the watch screens. It's not a big deal for me, really. I'm usually walking where I'm familiar with all of the POIs anyway, and I've just turned it off. I use WOD specifically for walking so I don't know if other workout types also have huge labels.

 

[Mauki]

Komoot routing has got me in trouble many times due to inaccuracies regarding private roads and gates.

Never had problems with the routing of Komoot. But I also do not blindly rely on because I plan my routes in advance myself and do not let me navigate.

 

[blackNBUK]

Never had problems with the routing of Komoot. But I also do not blindly rely on because I plan my routes in advance myself and do not let me navigate.

Maybe I was missing something but I found picking exactly the route that I wanted a pain with Komoot. The only way I could find was digging through menus to add custom waypoints. I much prefer the way that Viewranger/Outdooractive work where plotting points on the route is the default action. I really should try out Mapout because I think it lets you just trace out the footpath with your finger.