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I will assume this is an undisputed fact, for the sake of discussion.

However, iareSamsungs displays awesome and Apples is poor, or is Samsungs awesome, and Apple really really good, but a bit less then awesome?

If the latter, people generally do not know or care. They buy on price. Some buy on OS, some try to get the best combo of price, screen size, storage for their budget. Consumers are not like us on this forum

In midrange tablets, Samsung displays are many years ahead of the iPad Mini's display. That's what I mean by "slaughter".

For current 10" tablets, Samsung displays are only slightly better than Apple's for most uses. Unfortunately Samsung's tablets are incapable of driving their displays so you get horrid lag and stutter.

I just wish Apple's iPads all came with high end Samsung displays. We could have the best of both worlds. I've been waiting on an iPad Mini with a good display for years but now it looks like I may as well wait for an Air with a high dpi display. So sad that Apple don't want to compete in the midrange tablet space. :(
 
I just wish Apple's iPads all came with high end Samsung displays.

I don't know anything about Samsung tablets, whether they're better than iPads or not, BUT, on a recent flight, guy sitting next to me had a Samsung, and I was REALLY impressed with the display quality over my iPad.
 
if you don't think there is a problem with opening a folder that's a 3x3 grid on a 10 inch screen, only because it's the EXACT same iOS as it is for phones, you're living a sad lie. The worst part is you're not even an Apple shareholder

iOS on the iPad is a blown up iPhone iOS, period. Seems like every reviewer sees this issue except you. I love my iPad, it's my favorite device that I own and I use it more then my iMac which as you can see in my sig is a beast. That doesn't mean the OS is weak and is carried by 3rd parties because Apple stopped giving a damn

You've lost me, is this a reply to someone else post?
Yes, iOS on iPhone and iPad is the same, I didn't say it wasn't or even mention that.
Yes, I am not a shareholder, I didn't say I wasn't or even mention that, so how would you know I wasn't?
I didn't say iOS was weak, or mention that. Or third parties carrying it? I can only assume your post was to the wrong reply, but do clarify.

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I'm trying to imagine what kind of *****torm would break loose when Google added a feature similar to continuity.

To answer the question: continuity and handoff are ok, but the other things are not innovation. To put it in the vocabulary frequently used in this forum: apple copied Google.

It's not innovation, on a large scale it's playing catchup with android.

Fair points. My mistake, as far as the others not being innovative, as has happened for a few years now most new stuff is Android catchup. I use C and H quite a bit so to me they are great, YMMV.

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Tablets are simply not as useful for the huge majority of people as a laptop is.

And that is due to the lack of good input. You can work around, but it's no substitute for a touchpad and a keyboard, period.

The longer you use a tablet, the more you realize that it's a solution in search of a problem.

At first I thought that I'd lounge around the house with a tablet and not need a laptop, but even then, if you're instant messaging, or browsing, whatever.

You're always going to need to do input, and the moment you input anything more than twice, over the months, you'll realize that a laptop is simply the superior choice. It's not due to familiarity and a resistance to change. Laptops are just completely superior for the vast, vast majority of people.

Prediction: the watch will go the way of the iPad as well. Huge initial interest, relegated to a niche role after 4 years.

We need true innovations in battery life, screen technology/form factors, and sensors to make the next leap, and Apple ain't going to provide it. They'll probably buy the company that makes it and call it their own. Apple's a spit and polish type of company, and there's nothing wrong with that. Taking promising tech and mass producing it is not easy, but let's not kid ourselves--this is what they do.

You seem to see that the iPad is a laptop replacement, if thats the case, your comments are based on a product whose use is consumption not creation. Its not a laptop replacement, it is to watch, read, play, although you can create if you wish but thats not ideal as you mention. But thats not what its for.

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Battery life? The iPad Air 2 lasts 2 days with heavy use, more then that with moderate use and one day if you're watching movies all day on it. Nothing is wrong with the battery. The reason you see everyone with an iPad at a coffee shop, school campuses and airports... Is because 99% of what people want to do on a laptop, browse safari for Facebook/google/twitter, can be done on an iPad.

Exactly. I dunno why a few here see the iPad as a laptop, or lite laptop. Its to watch, read and play, and as a light, portable-ish product its fits that mould perfectly
 
They need a 12" version to broaden the product's appeal. It certainly worked for the iPhone 6.
 
This comment comes up from people who like to throw buzz terms around like they're in "the know".

The Air was exactly what the Air was meant to be. Thinner, lighter, smaller and twice the speed of the previous generation (backed up by Geekbench).

The Air 2 was again exactly what it was meant to be. Touch ID was always going to be held back for another year on iPad as the demand for sensors was focused on the then new iPhone 5s.

This is Apple, adding little by little each year and people throw around "the such-and-such is what such-and-such should have been" like some wannabe analyst.

Apple want to make money, if they'd put Touch ID and 2GB of RAM in the Air then the Air 2 would have been pointless. The SKU product line is planned way in advance, nothing is what something else was supposed to be.

It's the reason people aren't buying iPads though. I'm not an analyst. I'm just a customer. A customer who's not buying every iPad because features are coming later than they should.
 
Also when people like me who love the size of an iPad mini... which has yet to be updated to something "faster, thinner, better".. why would I spend more money for nothing? I have the 1st gen and I love it. I was going to replace it with a new one... but there were no pros to that purchase.

best Buy had 75 off the iPad Mini 2 and I traded my moms old iPad mini 1st gen. Ended up being 80 dollars for a much better tablet overall!
 
Agreed. It's too confusing for consumers, and all the extra models seem to be used to obscure the fact that NONE of the Mini iPads actually have a competitive display. Low-end tablets also dilute Apple's reputation for excellence and end up harming future sales.

Apple should create an iPad lineup similar to the laptop lineup. Offer a single line called "iPad" in two or three different sizes. That is most simple for consumers and assuming Apple don't gimp the smallest one, they all contribute to a reputation for excellence.

A few neighbors and family members for whom I do tech support are utterly bewildered at all the iPad models. "Air", "3", "4", "Mini", "Retina Mini", WTF? Who can remember all that nonsense? Just call it an iPad and be done with it! There shouldn't even be any non-retina iPads on sale!

It's well studied and documented that too much choice is overwhelming and can detract from sales. But demand for the iPad was has been incredible since it was released, so I think Apple understood that the more options they made available, the more they would sell.

Apple knows what they are doing and will adapt to market conditions accordingly. Now that the market may be cooling off, we might in time see a return to simplification in the product lineup.

Maybe something along the lines of...

four_square_i_OS_devices.png
 
I would actually prefer to buy a bigger iPad with more RAM (2GB+) and more storage. And a real digitizer stylus.
This year I'm not buying an iPad or iPhone. I need a new Mac: iMac or Mac Pro.

Still deciding...

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I don't know anything about Samsung tablets, whether they're better than iPads or not, BUT, on a recent flight, guy sitting next to me had a Samsung, and I was REALLY impressed with the display quality over my iPad.

it's probably an OLED display. Bright colors, but not color accurate. It's just an illusion.
 
best Buy had 75 off the iPad Mini 2 and I traded my moms old iPad mini 1st gen. Ended up being 80 dollars for a much better tablet overall!

wow that's not a bad deal at all! Sadly I need the AT&T version... so it would be more than $80. But thanks anyway!
 
It's the reason people aren't buying iPads though. I'm not an analyst. I'm just a customer. A customer who's not buying every iPad because features are coming later than they should.

Honestly I feel like the reason they are falling is simple fact of market saturation. It was coming. I honestly would not be surprised to see a fall in iPhone next year. Simple fact is the current generation of phones and even the previous generation does everything most people want them to do just fine but that is a different debate.

Tablets see the effects first as they do not get carier subsidies. But like laptops the older iPad and tablets do everything most people use them for.
What do most people use them for if you are honest.
Surf the Internet, check email., watch netflix hulu ect. None of that takes that insane amount power. Older tablets cover that just fine so they are getting longer life spans.
 
The Surface Pro is a different class of device than the iPad. It's a computer replacement. The iPad is a computer supplement.

This is key here. The iPad was never designed to replace a full computer like the Surface was. I would never own a Surface and an iPad. For the very light user the iPad is definitely a good replacement. If people use it only as a substitute it's great.

The issue is that over time people will naturally want to use the iPad more and more and Apple will have to budge. I keep my rMBP at home and take an iPad and Logitech keyboard cover to school, it works nice. I use my iPad for games and web browsing at places other than my desk, but even casual users want more. Split screen on a 9.7" device isn't a "POWER USER" feature. I mean, I think it could be common for the user to be watching a video and want to send a quick iMessage or look something up in Safari without having to leave the video. But it's like another user said on this forum, it's hard to make an OS simple enough that grandma can use it out of the box, but powerful enough for techies. It can be done, but Apple doesn't seem to want to. I am annoyed with iOS.

The iOS 5/6 era was great for the iPad because it was beginning to get distinguishing features such as the multitouch gestures and the extra functions in the multitasking bar, but starting with iOS 7 they took 20 steps back. A 9.7" device shouldn't mirror a 4.7", 5.5", or 3.5" device.

  • 3 x 3 icons in the folder?
  • Same multitasking view? Only one whole app and two halves? Same as the phone?
  • The music app is a "stretched out phone app" that Tim Cook hates

The iPad is nothing but a big iPhone now because Apple handicaps it. If it wasn't for amazing third party support it'd be almost dead. I hate these iPad Pro rumors because I know what will happen. The iPad Pro will have all the features people have been begging for and the iPad Air and Mini will remain gimped. I pardoned iOS 7 because it was a major change and I assumed iOS 8 would be the optimizing OS, but all it did was slow EVERYTHING down and introduce a hilarious amount of bugs. It's really annoying. If Apple can't handle annual cycles then drop it to 18 months and let all these "basic" users deal with their "ancient" Facebook devices.


I don't mean "basic" in a condescending way, but I'm so tired of each release being more and more about social media and web browsing. Apple stayed alive because of niche users that saw something valuable in Apple's offerings, but look at them now. OS X is has Facebook, twitter, Instagram, etc integrated (that's fine, but they didn't give you options to hide it for years), iWork was stripped and dumbed down so the kid's could use it for middle school projects and so iOS wouldn't feel inferior. Aperture has been dumped for the mysterious "Photos." Every OS version has more and more bugs. Yosemite had a hilarious amount of bugs for having a public beta. I used to have faith and make excuses for Apple. I would be excited for Photos, but now I'm just pessimistic. I can picture them now "Look, you can add filters to make your subjects black and white!!!!!! Instant post to Pinterest, Twitter, Facebook, instagram!" People who use their systems like basic tablets will love it while people begging for real improvements will lament. Mavericks was an exception, they really tried to make the OS better. Why can't we get more of that? Even look at Apple's website. Their software pages used to have so much detail. There was a page all about Safari's advanced features. Now each webpage is only one page explaining iCloud Drive Theater, iCloud Tabs, and all the fun colors. I bought and returned an Air 2 because it didn't do anything that my iPad 3 (or a 2) couldn't. Sure it did it better, but an app opening 3 seconds faster doesn't cut it. Look at iOS games. You can finish most games in a day. I think (but am not sure) that there is a 2GB file limit for Apps. To make truly great games you need way more than that, but God forbid they get rid of the 16GB option. No. $5 less profit and the investors would riot and storm Apple's headquarters. Unlike many of the others here, I like Tim Cook. I think he's a great structural leader, but maybe not for a company that advertises the "best products we can make." Jobs wasn't much better, but I think he was better. A few years ago I felt Apple really was trying to make the best products it could make within reason. Now, Apple seems much more like a cold "business." About money, not people. The fact that the original Mini came with a year old processor is a testament to that. Why is Apple selling an iPod Touch with an A5 when they are on the A8? No crap? Right. I feel bad for the parent who buy their kid an already laggy new device that will have no support in 12 months. And something else, Apple was always about being simple. I can understand offering last year's iPad or an iPhone C-type product at one lower price point not to ignore a market but really? They are selling:
  • iPad Mini
  • iPad Mini 2
  • iPad Mini 3
  • iPad Air
  • iPad Air 2

I'm all for choice, but not over confusion or crowded product lines. What about when Apple was selling the iPad Air and the iPad 2 completely by passing the iPad 3 (ugh) and the iPad 4!? In 2010 I was attracted to Apple because of the narrow, focused product line. I hated that when I wanted to buy an Android device I had 10+ manufacturers with 20+ products. I loved how Apple had iOS and the iPhone. I mean I like how Apple has two different sizes now, and it's okay to sell one year old devices at a discount, but now they're selling 2 year old, 1 year old, and two new devices at once.

I think this is the longest post I've ever made! :eek:
/Rant (I think you can tell I'm a bit annoyed)
 
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Honestly I feel like the reason they are falling is simple fact of market saturation. It was coming. I honestly would not be surprised to see a fall in iPhone next year. Simple fact is the current generation of phones and even the previous generation does everything most people want them to do just fine but that is a different debate.

Tablets see the effects first as they do not get carier subsidies. But like laptops the older iPad and tablets do everything most people use them for.
What do most people use them for if you are honest.
Surf the Internet, check email., watch netflix hulu ect. None of that takes that insane amount power. Older tablets cover that just fine so they are getting longer life spans.

Exactly. I see people using the first iPad still. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Shopping trolleys and deep insight

To anyone, a question:

have you ever been in a shop where someone behind you accidentally catches the backs of your ankles with their shopping trolley – not once, but twice?​

(That question may appear frivolous and unrelated to software, but it's not. Answers will relate to something that I'm preparing to post in connection with an Apple operating system.)

On Apple

Abbreviated:

… Apple handicaps it. … I'm so tired of each release being …

… Apple stayed alive because of niche users that saw something valuable in Apple's offerings, but look at them now. … stripped and dumbed down … dumped … more and more bugs. … a hilarious amount of bugs for having a public beta. I used to have faith and make excuses for Apple. … now I'm just pessimistic. … people begging for real improvements will lament. Mavericks was an exception, they really tried to make the OS better. Why can't we get more of that? Even look at Apple's website. Their software pages used to have so much detail. There was a page all about … advanced features. … I bought and returned … because it didn't do anything that my … couldn't. Sure it did it better, but an app opening 3 seconds faster doesn't cut it. … $5 less profit and the investors would riot and storm Apple's headquarters. Unlike many of the others here, I like Tim Cook. I think he's a great structural leader, but maybe not for a company that advertises the "best products we can make." Jobs wasn't much better, but I think he was better. A few years ago I felt Apple really was trying to make the best products it could make within reason. Now, Apple seems much more like a cold "business." About money, not people. …

I'm all for choice, but not over confusion or crowded product lines. … I was attracted to Apple because of the narrow, focused product line. I hated that when I wanted to buy an Android device I had 10+ manufacturers with 20+ products. I loved how Apple had iOS and the iPhone. …

I think this is the longest post I've ever made! :eek:
/Rant (I think you can tell I'm a bit annoyed)

Coming from someone who's relatively new to Apple, relatively new to posting online, I have to say: the unabbreviated original post was outstanding. Long and critical, but entirely reasonable; not a rant. It has a depth of insight that I have sensed in only one other thing online this year.

There are many ways to measure the success of a person, of a product, of a company. I believe passionately that it's in Apple's best interests, long term, to not treat financial profit as an overriding measure* at this time. Whilst I don't expect investors to suddenly take their eyes off the financial prize, I do believe that we can raise awareness of other, less measurable values within Apple.

On feelings

… about iOS and my feelings about Apple in general right now which spills over into their current design. I doubt anyone cares, but aww well. … It makes me sad because Apple was the only company I ever felt that I related too. Now I feel that the Apple I loved is gone. It's sad, because it's a real loss. It was a hoppy, interest, and enjoyment.

----
In my most humble opinion, what I think doesn't really matter.

Traverse, on a personal note: IMHO, whoever gets to employ you (after you complete your thesis, hopefully sooner) will gain an asset that might not be valued in terms of profit. What you think does matter – not least because you politely and genuinely show an interest in the thoughts of others. Maybe not intentional, but it's a very effective way of motivating people to share their thoughts, their feedback. An occasional rant makes you no less professional. As I expect you'll discover, elsewhere in MacRumors Forums, most people do care – when given something or someone to care about.

----

Less personally, to anyone: in recent months I have swung dramatically from optimism to deep pessimism** but for what it's worth, I'm not entirely without hope. A few days ago on TV I saw, for the first time, an Apple advertisement with …

six colours! I literally caught my breath and had goose pimples. In my wild imagination, it was a coded signal from Apple that the opinions of people like me – of old guard customers and loyalists – will not be disrespected in the march of progress of a new Apple. I dived for Google and sought some public reaction to this new commercial. I was disappointed to discover that it began airing more than three months ago, but not entirely disappointed. This afternoon I realised that on the day of my rebellion*** John Gruber saw a rainbow. By no stretch of the imagination was that rainbow was for me :) but as a simple coincidence, it is thought-provoking.

Product matrices

… attracted to Apple because of the narrow, focused product line. …

"… Apple had a very clear strategy in the late 1990s of a four quadrant product matrix - laptop vs. desktop, consumer vs. pro. And pros loved the PowerBooks and Power Macs. …"​


A 2005 archive of Apple's hardware page from one day after announcement of the Mac Mini. No sense of that matrix there, but I do have a clear recollection of what was described by Low End Mac.

More indicative of that matrix, a 2007 archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20070314000852/http://www.apple.com/hardware/

Whether that matrix was ever visualised by Apple as a square with four quadrants, I can't recall. I do know that it was very attractive, but I don't say that because I'm incapable of making complex purchase decisions. (Around 2003 I had responsibility for deciding how around thirty percent of of a £500,000 IT budget should be spent, and the proposed budget was originally much greater … millions … but there were two winners so the funding (JIF) was shared appropriately … blah blah blah … enough said.) In a way that's difficult to verbalise, that long-gone matrix does continue to guide my thoughts around purchases for colleagues.

Exemplary web content

… look at Apple's website. …

From 2009:

Apple (United Kingdom) - Education - Leaders & Administrators - The Apple Ecosystem

– maybe not the best example, but that page sprang to mind because it was recently quoted in a topic that mentioned Apple ecosystems.

It was web content from a company that I trusted to produce, within reason, the best.

In 2014 I suspect that someone began with a marketing slogan

Completely new. Completely Mac.

– but for a variety of reasons, the resulting product is neither of those things.

For reasons that I'll not publicise, I have a growing sense that no-one at Apple intended the end result to be as divisive as it is. As that sense grows, I'm more prepared to engage in whatever will be necessary to restore a more widespread love of Apple and its products. I have a hunch that this will involve at least:
  • some carefully structured feedback through the channels provided by Apple
  • a reasonably respectful rebellion that has the potential to hurt Apple in a spot that might concern investors – without hurting any individual or group within the company.
----

Whew. That wasn't the lightest way for someone in the UK to end a thanksgiving period for readers in the US – sorry! – but here's the bottom line:
  • I'm less pessimistic now than I was a few weeks ago
– and I look forward to some constructive, positive, results-oriented discussions in the weeks and months ahead.

----
* I can feel the flames already.

** The vast majority of that optimism was elsewhere, not in the MacRumors domain.

*** Not duly respectful to agreements with Apple. I now know better.
 
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… People that want a iPad already have an iPad.

I wanted an iPad, didn't rush to get one. I no longer want one.

All the people that want a tablet already have one.

I'd like a tablet. Maybe in a year or so, if the type of product that I'd like comes to market. I don't imagine Apple producing it.

apple has a focus on product quality …

Hmm.

Whilst I can't comment on the quality of iPad hardware, I'm not impressed with the quality of recent Apple software. The software is somewhat polished, but that does not equate to a high quality user experience. The ankle-battering part of my previous post is put into context at https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20474797#post20474797
 
Looks like we're heading for a post-iPad world... :p

Give me a 20KG, built-like-a-russian-tank Lenovo desktop PC any day - no nonsense, built to do a job well, and will last millenia. Post-PC my foot.

#applicancecomputer #landfill #fashionitem #facebookonly
 
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