Would you buy a MBP again ?

[Lachhh]

Yes I would. Love the MBP, love OS X. I'd opt for a portable option again and just hook it up to my external monitor while at my desk. (In my case, matte. Huge matte screen fan.)

As for games, there's always the option of booting into a windows partition, no OS X option for Windows computers. (Unless you hack around.)

 

[macenied]

other operating systems - not sure what you mean here. You can run Linux, Windows and OS X on a Mac very easily

EFI, booting - not following you here

USB, device drivers - not following you here at all. What does Apple do to restrict your enjoyment of USB?

It's also fully depending on Apple's lifecycle management and Apple tends to phase out systems from support quite early, some of them in less than 4 years. - absolutely no idea what you're complaining about here. This is a good thing. Microsoft is still not sure how to get people off Windows XP.

To answer your first question. Yes, I intend to buy many, many more Macs, including Macbooks, in the future.

I can tell my limited perspective from owning a mid 2010 MacBook Pro 13", model 7.1. Text in italic is copied from other sources because I'm not a native english speaker and it describes the incompatibilities I am referring to probably better that I can do.

Booting

Intel Macs can boot in two ways: directly via EFI, or in a "legacy" BIOS compatibility mode. For multibooting, holding down "Option" gives a choice of bootable devices, while the rEFIt(discontinued) / rEFInd bootloader is commonly used for added configurability.

Standard Live USBs cannot be used on IntelMacs; the EFI firmware can recognize and boot from USB drives, but it can only do this in EFI mode–when the firmware switches to BIOS mode, it no longer recognizes USB drives, due to lack of a BIOS-mode USB driver. Many operating systems, such as Windows and Linux,[1] can only be booted in BIOS mode, or are more easily booted or perform better when booted in BIOS mode, and thus USB booting on IntelMacs is largely limited to Mac OS X, which can easily be booted via EFI. This limitation could be fixed by either patching the Apple firmware to include a USB driver in BIOS mode, or the operating systems to remove the dependency on the BIOS.

USB booting - continued

This basicly says that you cannot boot from an USB stick ( there are very limited exceptions ) and you cannot boot from an external CD/DVD drive. In case the Superdrive will break on my machine, I will need to replace it.

In short, Apple does not want to boot other OS's on this machine, with one exception:

BootCamp

To get BootCamp working, you need MBR partitions which limits the numer of usable partitions to 2.

Apple supports BootCamp 4 for my system. This means no Windows 8/8.1 or 10. The system is now 4 years old. The way Apple supports Windows 7 is BIOS mode, not EFI, so no AHCI drivers for SSD's ( decreased performance ).

 

[theycallmetc]

When it comes to portability, raw performance, battery life and an amazeballs screen, the rMBP just has it for me.

There's only one computer that comes close, the Razer Blade. Even better screen, more raw power, but the battery life isn't even half as good. System-wise, I love OSX. I still use Windows a lot and grew up using both systems, but all the synchronization with my iPhone, among other features, just gives it the edge for me.

So yes, as long as this MBP lasts a decent time, I'll definitely buy another one afterwards.

Now, desktops...Hackintosh for me, thanks. Although I could fit a 5k iMac into my setup down the line, depending on the price of similar displays at the time.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

No

It is a Mac forum so I would expect everyone to say "yes". Let me play spoilsport and say "no". Apple's QC, IMHO, has gone downhill the past few years. I have lost ALL (3 to those who want to know) my Macbook Pros to failed GPUs. It really got to a point where I had to move over to a Dell workstation for reliability and this means Windows!

The Dell hardware is great. Easy to repair means that this is not a use-and-throw machine that most Macbooks are leaning towards nowadays. As a plus, it is also resistant to dust and shock as per military standards...not that I would push it that far but it is good to have. A refreshing change though...I really babied all the Pros but now I can treat this laptop like a grown up!

I don't like Windows though it has been pretty stable for me.
It is disorganized though it does everything I want it to and very well.
I still like OSX a lot! I guess these are withdrawal symptoms and will last for a while (possibly explains why I am still trolling this forum)

But still, given a choice, no Mac for me anymore. Their hardware ecosystem is making less sense now given the recent product refreshes (removal of the quad core Mac mini leaves only the expensive Mac Pro for anyone wanting a headless unit.)

 

[maflynn]

I'll be buying a MBP again, though I'm hoping that decision is still a couple of years off. My 2012 rMBP seems to have a lot of life left in her, and she's only 2.5 years old.

I will in all likelihood avoid a configuration that includes a dGPU however. Apple's track record for discrete GPUs is horrid, and I'd rather not roll the dice on it. So far, we've not seen any reports about the 2012 models having problems, but I'm still a little anxious. if things start looking like radeongate is striking the 2012 rMBPs, then I'll probably sell my rMBP sooner then later and get another model (sans dGPU)

 

[theSeb]

I can tell my limited perspective from owning a mid 2010 MacBook Pro 13", model 7.1. Text in italic is copied from other sources because I'm not a native english speaker and it describes the incompatibilities I am referring to probably better that I can do.

Booting

Intel Macs can boot in two ways: directly via EFI, or in a "legacy" BIOS compatibility mode. For multibooting, holding down "Option" gives a choice of bootable devices, while the rEFIt(discontinued) / rEFInd bootloader is commonly used for added configurability.

Standard Live USBs cannot be used on IntelMacs; the EFI firmware can recognize and boot from USB drives, but it can only do this in EFI mode–when the firmware switches to BIOS mode, it no longer recognizes USB drives, due to lack of a BIOS-mode USB driver. Many operating systems, such as Windows and Linux,[1] can only be booted in BIOS mode, or are more easily booted or perform better when booted in BIOS mode, and thus USB booting on IntelMacs is largely limited to Mac OS X, which can easily be booted via EFI. This limitation could be fixed by either patching the Apple firmware to include a USB driver in BIOS mode, or the operating systems to remove the dependency on the BIOS.

rEFInd is what you're looking for since rEFIt was discontinued

http://www.howtogeek.com/187410/how-to-install-and-dual-boot-linux-on-a-mac/

BootCamp

To get BootCamp working, you need MBR partitions which limits the numer of usable partitions to 2.

You can have more than 2 partitions when you're using Bootcamp. I do it often when running the current Mac OS X, the developer preview and Bootcamp. I am using GPT and have bootcamp. No MBR here.

rMBP:mobileDev sebastianp$ diskutil list
/dev/disk0
   #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
   0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *500.3 GB   disk0

Apple supports BootCamp 4 for my system. This means no Windows 8/8.1 or 10. The system is now 4 years old. The way Apple supports Windows 7 is BIOS mode, not EFI, so no AHCI drivers for SSD's ( decreased performance ).

I am not sure why you think that this is somehow the end of the world. You need to upgrade your current Mac to use the latest Bootcamp and run Windows via EFI. I think that expecting your 2010 Macbook to be upgraded is not reasonable. Looking at it from a company point of view, I don't think this would be a wise use of company resources to satisfy edge cases, like yourself.

----------

The Dell hardware is great. Easy to repair means that this is not a use-and-throw machine that most Macbooks are leaning towards nowadays.

This is the first I have heard any say that Dell hardware is easy to repair and I have a lot of friends that have, or had, Dell systems. Each to their own.

 

[Gav Mack]

rEFInd is what you're looking for since rEFIt was discontinued

http://www.howtogeek.com/187410/how-to-install-and-dual-boot-linux-on-a-mac/



You can have more than 2 partitions when you're using Bootcamp. I do it often when running the current Mac OS X, the developer preview and Bootcamp. I am using GPT and have bootcamp. No MBR here.

rMBP:mobileDev sebastianp$ diskutil list
/dev/disk0
   #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
   0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *500.3 GB   disk0

I am not sure why you think that this is somehow the end of the world. You need to upgrade your current Mac to use the latest Bootcamp and run Windows via EFI. I think that expecting your 2010 Macbook to be upgraded is not reasonable. Looking at it from a company point of view, I don't think this would be a wise use of company resources to satisfy edge cases, like yourself.

----------



This is the first I have heard any say that Dell hardware is easy to repair and I have a lot of friends that have, or had, Dell systems. Each to their own.

Comparisons with consumer grade notebooks such as Dell and HP make there is none, from pretty much all brands its a load of badly built rubbish that simply doesn't last and spares can be a nightmare a few years down the line.

But with the business grade kit Dell Latitudes and HP Probooks they are really easy to repair and maintain nowadays. If any client consumer or not wants a cheap Windows notebook for the past 18 months - 2 years I've supplied a Probook 450 variant which is actually supplied with Win 7 preloaded and 8/8.1 on discs in the box.

It's no MBP but not a pile of junk either

 

[theSeb]

Comparisons with consumer grade notebooks such as Dell and HP make there is none, from pretty much all brands its a load of badly built rubbish that simply doesn't last and spares can be a nightmare a few years down the line.

But with the business grade kit Dell Latitudes and HP Probooks they are really easy to repair and maintain nowadays. If any client consumer or not wants a cheap Windows notebook for the past 18 months - 2 years I've supplied a Probook 450 variant which is actually supplied with Win 7 preloaded and 8/8.1 on discs in the box.

It's no MBP but not a pile of junk either

I have never used a Dell Latitude personally, but you do raise a good point. I have used Lenovo thinkpads though and thought they were pretty good.

However, the best Windows laptop I have ever used is my retina MacBook Pro.

 

[Gav Mack]

I have never used a Dell Latitude personally, but you do raise a good point. I have used Lenovo thinkpads though and thought they were pretty good.

However, the best Windows laptop I have ever used is my retina MacBook Pro.

Business and consumer when it comes to notebooks have to be split; one good and the other sounds a bit like split

I have to disagree - the best windows laptop there is is my souped up ahci enabled 7x64 17 inch late 2011 MacBook Pro

 

[JHUFrank]

What this person said. Right on the money.

There's little reason to leave the walled castle of OS X - I've stopped wasting my time with needless tinkering, if I want to run another OS, I'll just fire up VMWare Fusion and be done with it. None of this rebooting to switch OS, partitioning nightmares, etc. Its just not worth wasting my time over.

For Windows, which is the only other OS you might want to natively boot into - just use boot camp and be done with it.

As for longevity, sell and upgrade after 2-3 years, you'll get back more for your used MBP than you would a used 2-3 year old PC laptop, and put it into a new one.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

This is the first I have heard any say that Dell hardware is easy to repair and I have a lot of friends that have, or had, Dell systems. Each to their own.

A Dell Precision M4800. Different from all the consumer laptops they spew out. To be honest, it is not a fair comparison with the MBP given the thickness of the MBP but that is the price you pay when you get user-serviceable RAM modules (4 slots to a max 32GB), user-serviceable hard drive slots (3-I stuck in SSDs in there). In Apple's case, if there is an issue with either RAM or hard disk, you will most probably take it to the store and this means you are without your laptop for a few days. With Dell, next day service (at best two days) really works..at least in my case.

----------

I have to disagree - the best windows laptop there is is my souped up ahci enabled 7x64 17 inch late 2011 MacBook Pro

Yeah...one word: Radeongate
If two words...impending Radeongate
But otherwise, the machine is great. Really hurt when I sold mine for 700! So much for resale value of the MBPs...

I will in all likelihood avoid a configuration that includes a dGPU however. Apple's track record for discrete GPUs is horrid, and I'd rather not roll the dice on it. So far, we've not seen any reports about the 2012 models having problems, but I'm still a little anxious. if things start looking like radeongate is striking the 2012 rMBPs, then I'll probably sell my rMBP sooner then later and get another model (sans dGPU)

If you ask me, the sooner the better. If the 2012 starts crapping out, word will spread fast. I had a torrid time selling my late 2011 even though it had AppleCare.

 

[Gav Mack]

Yeah...one word: Radeongate
If two words...impending Radeongate
But otherwise, the machine is great. Really hurt when I sold mine for 700! So much for resale value of the MBPs...

For those who haven't re-pasted and re-profiled their heat-sink plates so it runs as cool as a cucumber inside perhaps but I'm pretty confident it's going to last. Especially since the other dozen of so 2011's I've done the same treatment as purely as preventative measure too haven't had one single AMD go bust. I will get it lead reballed if it does which is a far better repair than Apple could possibly do IF it happens.

Works across the board keeping those dies for the entire chassis cooler from 2008 on for the twin fans chassis and the single fan/die 13 inch models too which is still sold as the 13 inch classic today.

 

[aoaaron]

Yes, no doubt about it. The user experience of my macbook pro far outweighs and outstrips any other experience I've had with any device.

This includes my iPad, gaming PC and iPhone.

However, if I were to choose between only having a MBP or a gaming PC... I'd edge towards the gaming PC.

Laptop wise though, the MBP wins every single day.



Awesome battery life, high resolution screen the OS actually uses properly, the best trackpad ever made, a brilliant warranty and customer service (my 2010 mbp got its case+battery replaced for free 2 weeks ago, a year out of apple care) and the OS itself is just beautiful. Mail/iCal/Reminders/Safari/itunes form the backbone of seamless integration in life. add into the mix iMessages + FaceTime and you're onto an absolute winner. Then we had iCloud into the mix and iTunes match and those are the reasons why I live in the apple eco system.


I do still have a windows box for gaming and XBMC though.

 

[leenak]

have you tried other laptops? Many of them are crap and you get no support after 1 or 2 years. At least with apple, you can purchase Applecare. I had a sony laptop before my rMBP and around 1 year, the power connector on the laptop was having issues. I took it to a Sony store, they returned my laptop in 2 weeks with me having to keep calling the store about status. 6 months later, I had the same problem, I talked to Sony about it and they said they could fix it again but it'd cost me $150. I have similar stories for other laptops as well (HP and Dell mostly).

If you want to run Windows, bootcamp. If you want to run Linux, use something like parallels or Virtualbox. I'm not sure what other OS you want to run but you can do it with those two means.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

7 years after getting my first MBP I'm now on my third (second if you don't count replacements due to accidents) with no plans on getting anything but another a year or two down the line when I'm up for a replacement.

Upgrade path wise you could say that I sort of hit a sweetspot with the first one considering it's still supported in Maverics and probably will continue to be supported until they do something really big like make a 3D desktop environment standard. I did hate how they eliminated user replaceable RAM and went with an exotic SSD starting in the 2012 machines, but now that the speed of the SSD's has gone up so much sticking with regular 2,5" SATA drives would have gimped the machines beyond belief the only thing that bothers me is the RAM.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

For those who haven't re-pasted and re-profiled their heat-sink plates so it runs as cool as a cucumber inside perhaps but I'm pretty confident it's going to last. Especially since the other dozen of so 2011's I've done the same treatment as purely as preventative measure too haven't had one single AMD go bust. I will get it lead reballed if it does which is a far better repair than Apple could possibly do IF it happens.
.

Agreed. That should work though one shouldn't have to after paying a couple of grand for a "high quality" pro machine. But I digress. Do whatever to keep it ticking...I could have done that too but I guess the third time was just a little too much for me.

To the OP, my recommendation is simply this: if you really like OSX and see no way without it, buy the MBP albeit without the graphic card just to be safe. There is nothing in the market right now that offers the finesse of OSX (not sure how Yosemite is doing though)

If you are ok with Windows and hardware that is not all that great looking (compared to MBP), plenty of fish in the sea to choose from! Lenovo is a good pick...

 

[johngwheeler]

Apple needs a serious workstation laptop

A Dell Precision M4800. Different from all the consumer laptops they spew out. To be honest, it is not a fair comparison with the MBP given the thickness of the MBP but that is the price you pay when you get user-serviceable RAM modules (4 slots to a max 32GB), user-serviceable hard drive slots (3-I stuck in SSDs in there). In Apple's case, if there is an issue with either RAM or hard disk, you will most probably take it to the store and this means you are without your laptop for a few days. With Dell, next day service (at best two days) really works..at least in my case.

Yes, the Dell Precision is actually quite a nice bit of kit (I also quite like the Lenovo W530). They're both fairly thick and heavy though, even in the 15.4" version.

It would be great if Apple made a MacBook Pro Plus (or Pro-Plus for the caffeine addicts!), which had 4 SO-DIMMs to allow 32GB RAM, and had 2 or 3 drive bays (1 x PCIe SSD, 1 x mSATA and a 2.5" SATA for bulk storage. Combine this with a top of the range quad-core i7 (& maybe additional discrete GPU option) and you'd have a winner for power users!

Sadly, there probably isn't a sufficient market for this - which is why the MBP 17 is no more.

I used to carry a MBP 15 + quad-core Mac Mini together to get sort of client-server set-up (UIs and IDEs running on the laptop, server processes on the Mini), and this was still lighter than the other workstation laptops. Unfortunately the new Mini is no longer quad core, so this option is gone too :-(

 

[macjunk(ie)]

Yes, the Dell Precision is actually quite a nice bit of kit (I also quite like the Lenovo W530). They're both fairly thick and heavy though, even in the 15.4" version.

It would be great if Apple made a MacBook Pro Plus (or Pro-Plus for the caffeine addicts!), which had 4 SO-DIMMs to allow 32GB RAM, and had 2 or 3 drive bays (1 x PCIe SSD, 1 x mSATA and a 2.5" SATA for bulk storage. Combine this with a top of the range quad-core i7 (& maybe additional discrete GPU option) and you'd have a winner for power users!

Sadly, there probably isn't a sufficient market for this - which is why the MBP 17 is no more.

I used to carry a MBP 15 + quad-core Mac Mini together to get sort of client-server set-up (UIs and IDEs running on the laptop, server processes on the Mini), and this was still lighter than the other workstation laptops. Unfortunately the new Mini is no longer quad core, so this option is gone too :-(

Couldn't agree more! Apple should ideally provide a workstation laptop to cater to pros. The workstation laptop can afford to have a better thermal envelope (read a little heavier and ticker) ensuring longevity of its components.

I understand the demand will be less and it may not be the most profitable unit in terms of absolute numbers (don't think millions of these will be sold). But this is secondary compared to the resources Apple has. When companies like Dell and IBM can sustain their workstation divisions, why not Apple ?

To me, Apple should not look at this as a single transaction. These workstations will be either be gateway devices OR a part of the Apple's ecosystem. When I bought the MBP, I bought the iPhone, the iPad, time machine capsule, airport extreme and the express - continued to buy the latest versions of each until my MBPs started to die. When I got the Dell, sold of the iPhone and got an Android. Now I am thinking of ways to integrate with the Windows ecosystem. Come to think of it, this is definitely safer than integrating with Apple's. If Apple screws us with hardware (read Mini - Mac and iPad), we stay screwed unlike in Windows' ecosystem.

It is however a whole different matter as to how good the integration works in Windows. Microsoft still has some work to do here unfortunately.