Would you buy a midrange mac tower?

[Freyqq]

Well, would you?

I know I would in a heartbeat. I think Apple should discontinue the 24" iMac because prosumers want the expandability of the Mac Pro, but at a better pricepoint with not so many unnecessary features. Here's what I'd like to see:

>either a 2.33 GHz C2D or 2.0 GHz Xeon
>1 superdrive (don't think anybody NEEDS two, plus it'd cut down on the size)
>2 hard disk bays for up to 1.5 TB, base model 250 GB
>1 GB RAM standard, but certainly 16 GB is not necessary for the maximum
>NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT (probably just 128 MB, maybe 256)
>2 FW400, 1 FW800, 4 USB, 2 on keyboard
>No PCI express (prosumers don't need 8 30 inch Cinemas)
>Would be nice if they threw in AirPort card, but not necesary
>$1799-$1999 for base model

Would you buy that?

yes..but better specs and cheaper

if it had a desktop chip, 2 hd bays..maybe one 250 gig hd would be fair base , 2 gig ram, FW 400, USBx4 sounds good, PCI express, 1900xt radeon, airport/bluetooth for about 1299 would be fair

 

[siurpeeman]

i owned a dual g5. i liked it, but i was never thrilled with it. the expansion and upgradeability of it all was never for me. i really fit into apple's target demographic of imac and macbook computers. that and as others mentioned, i don't see a tower that would fit nicely between the 24" imac and the mac pro.

 

[iMacZealot]

a owned a dual g5. i liked it, but i was never thrilled with it. the expansion and upgradeability of it all was never for me. i really fit into apple's target demographic of imac and macbook computers. that and as others mentioned, i don't see a tower that would fit nicely between the 24" imac and the mac pro.

Yeah, the more I think about it, it'd be hard for Apple to release a midrange tower without cannibalising iMac or Mac Pro sales or vice versa. I know Apple would never do a midrange tower again, but I was in the mood to dream today. I guess I'm just stuck with saving up more for an overkill Mac Pro....

 

[suneohair]

a owned a dual g5. i liked it, but i was never thrilled with it. the expansion and upgradeability of it all was never for me. i really fit into apple's target demographic of imac and macbook computers. that and as others mentioned, i don't see a tower that would fit nicely between the 24" imac and the mac pro.

THis isn't about an iMac, it is a completely different computer. Mac mini ---- ???? ---- Mac Pro

 

[dopey220]

Yeah, I'd definitely buy that. I'd get the AirPort upgrade (if it wasn't included), and upgrade to 2 GB RAM and 256 MB VRAM if they didn't come standard.

EDIT: Redundancy is bad.

 

[solvs]

Usually when people ask these kinds of questions they want all the bells and whistles starting at $1000.

Well, a nice cheapy machine with full size drives and a real video card would be great for about $999. But most of us just reasonably want something a little less than a Mac Pro with a price to match. As has been mentioned in every other thread about this, a nice Mermon with standard RAM in a smaller case for about $1200-$1500 depending on how good it is would be perfect. Basically an iMac without the screen for pretty much the same price, but with slightly more upgradability.

 

[iW00t]

(Don't even try the MP or the Powermacs; they weren't meant to be either.)

Looks over function?

My... isn't someone a tad superficial?

 

[derboy]

i just want a cheap macpro with slower and less expensive Ram. £740 for 4gb!! This meant i bought an imac 24

 

[shikimo]

It should be a sphere. Or a pyramid. Or a wang.

Long live Wang!!! And yeah, let's get creative with the headless lineup; why not turn the headless line into attractive furniture the way the iMac did for the all-in-one machine? The Cube was nice-looking, but the price was a bit, um...insane. Yeah, that's the word, insane.

Yes, I think it'd be a terrible idea if Apple's flagship computer was not an all-in-one like the PC companies because consumers don't need expandability nor the ability to upgrade his or her screen, but a prosumer/pro does.

Completely true; this is a part of what makes Apple special, and is also a point of continuity--in terms of both marketing and aesthetics--with the myriad non-computer products upon which Apple has staked so much of its future. There is no reason why covering more of the market by creatively rethinking a headless line would change the flagship nature of the iMac.

I totally see your point but i'm been thinking about the way people use computers and how they upgrade. And for some reason my current opinion (also after reading about SR and the Graphics Capabitilites with it) that it would be better to just offer 3 towers (mac mini, something new, and mac pro) that support multiple screens. i'm not sure, that you can hook up another screen to an imac (if you ever needed to down the road), but they look really bad next to each other. they could then expand their monitor range in sizes which would result in cheaper costs and give you the flexibility to customize your setup (say you bought a 20" imac and 3 months later you decide you need more real estate) better because they are the type of product that has a long life you don't need to upgrade them often. I know it seems PC ish, but apple would find a way to make it apple.

i just think, economically, and also with the obscelecene of technology, that it just makes more sense. instead of having to buy something new and repay for compontents you already have, that do not need to be upgraded or replaced.a set up like that is ideal. you can customize how many displays you want. It will be cheaper to upgrade. It will all look the same design wise. upgrading would be easier, cheaper, and faster.

Actully ideally it would be cool to devise a system where you can swap out processor components, or the core of what you need fast, the way you would a hard drive. That would be the future i think. don't know how i got off on to that.

Interesting...my above comment notwithstanding, this may be an accurate vision of the future for many users. However, two observations: 1) I think Apple likes the fact that when people replace their iMacs they are obliged to replace things they have that still work cuz it boosts profit, and 2) Many consumer users want a simple box with (increasingly) few(er) cables coming out of it to take care of their computer needs, and aren't interested in swapping out parts regardless of economic and performance-related benefits.

Also, Apple would have to completely rethink its approach to display marketing to make this work .

The more computers become integrated into the daily lives of consumer users, the more transparent they become, and the iMac form factor is waaaay ahead of anything else in this department.

 

[nplima]

so let's say we start with something like this and paint it white :

(online store at www.chip7.pt)

At retail price we need some extra EUR70 to add a SATA 3.5" hard disk
+ some EUR35 for a DVD R/W
(these prices all include VAT at my local rate 21%)
= EUR484 = £333 = US$638

Since there are many shared components with the Wintel world, it's inevitable that comparisons component-by-component will have to be made. Just how do you fit this in the current product line?

This looks so unlikely that probably stacking 2 or 3 Mac Mini and set them up as Xgrid will probably the closest someone will ever get to having a headless iMac cheaper than a Mac Pro

Nuno

 

[matticus008]

Yeah, by "tower", I mean something half the height of the Mac Pro and half the length.

Half the height is doable, but half the depth is not. If you want multiple drive bays, the standard depth is absolutely inevitable unless you forgo any internal expansion slots at all--which would be ridiculous in a tower Mac.

Ultimately, it looks like all you actually want in terms of expandability is space for additional internal hard drives. Frankly, I'd just as soon have that empty space in the case eliminated. Compact computers are the way to go. It might be nice to have a little hard drive box with, say, three or four 3.5" bays for the disk-hungry prosumer to attach via an external SATA connection. But there's no real need for a tower Mac.

What would one put in it, aside from hard drives? The internal cards are pricey pro components, as is increasingly true of PCs (aside from TV tuners, where the Mac currently lacks).

But what about us Prosumers? There hasn't really been a good solution for us. The 24" iMac, I believe, is intended for us prosumers with the big screen and FW800, but that's not what the iMac's been about.

If the iMac has enough muscle, a 20" iMac with a nice second display is a winner. If it doesn't, the "mid-range tower" proposed also wouldn't be beefy enough, so that prosumer would end up with a low-end Mac Pro anyway. The built-in display is a minor inconvenience for people. If you would buy a "headless" iMac with otherwise identical specs for $200 less, then you're not really being troubled by the display.

There's nothing to upgrade beyond the display and the hard drives. If a 20 or 24" inch display won't do it for you, you're in multimonitor territory anyway, so the iMac fits well. If 24" is enough, what's the problem?

 

[FleurDuMal]

I would buy it. But I'd much rather have a 24" iMac with more upgradability - especially the graphics card.

A boring old tower just seems very un-Apple. Certainly wouldn't have the 'wow' factor of the iMac.

 

[wickedpapercut]

A mini-Pro

I know two people who would jump at this -- a mini-Pro -- same specs and options as the iMac line without the all-in-one monitor. I don't really care about user-upgradeability, just give me access to the memory banks (and maybe the HD) and it would be a perfect machine.

I don't want laptop parts in a tiny little box (the mini) but I really don't want the integrated unit of the iMac.

Sigh... it's only a dream.

 

[andiwm2003]

it would be nice if apple had a midsize tower.

however i can't see it for me. a powerful notebook as desktop replacement and a mac mini in my living room satisfy my needs and my lifestyle more.

 

[pilotError]

I think a mid-sized tower is a great idea. I got burnt buying a 20" iMac (early 2006). I really need the Draft-N, but I can't (legally) upgrade it without killing my warranty. The video is a little lacking, but good for now.

I'd rather be able to upgrade it for $300 than to buy a whole new machine.

Mac Pro is OK, but maybe a bit overkill. The form factor is a bit LARGE though.

I love the Mac Mini, but again, your limited in what you can do.

The Mini-tower is the only hole in their lineup. I know they like to control the user experience, but some technologies change so fast they are obsolete in a very short time. An upgradeable machine would also be a big attraction to the budget gamer. Buy the machine, upgrade the video cards when they get the cash or when a better supported model comes out. With the Dual cores, CPU is not really an issue anymore.

 

[2ndPath]

Well, would you?

I know I would in a heartbeat. I think Apple should discontinue the 24" iMac because prosumers want the expandability of the Mac Pro, but at a better pricepoint with not so many unnecessary features. Here's what I'd like to see:

>either a 2.33 GHz C2D or 2.0 GHz Xeon
>1 superdrive (don't think anybody NEEDS two, plus it'd cut down on the size)
>2 hard disk bays for up to 1.5 TB, base model 250 GB
>1 GB RAM standard, but certainly 16 GB is not necessary for the maximum
>NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT (probably just 128 MB, maybe 256)
>2 FW400, 1 FW800, 4 USB, 2 on keyboard
>No PCI express (prosumers don't need 8 30 inch Cinemas)
>Would be nice if they threw in AirPort card, but not necesary
>$1799-$1999 for base model

Would you buy that?

I would buy a midrange tower. However, if Apple offered one as you describe it, I would rather get a Mac Pro, which starts at $2121, and thus is only marginally more expensive than what you describe but offeres a lot more.

 

[solvs]

There's nothing to upgrade beyond the display and the hard drives.

Video card, memory (at hopefully not ridiculous prices), and maybe even the CPU.

 

[Keebler]

not at all.

this issue comes up from time to time.

i think what needs to happen is that the word 'prosumer' needs to be tick tacked to a bullseye at a rifle range and shot full of holes.

prosumer, shoshumer! bah!

one is either a 'consumer' or a 'professional'. how in God's name can anyone be in between??? imho, if you make MONEY or use a mac for work, you're a professional. anyone else is a consumer.

this massive error, and the world of pc thinking is what drives the 'midtower mac' conversations.

the imac is the 'midtower'. it's what you want if you won't want a laptop and don't want the mini and don't want the mac pros.

i think apple is playing it perfectly. if someone wants 1 TB of space inside their machine and doesn't want to pay for a mac pro, then there are plenty of willing 3rd party companies who manufacture quality storage units. and, with the price of those units (take your pick) and a 24" imac, it's still cheaper than a mac pro. and to boot, they are fast, reliable systems.

if you're a pro, then buy a mac pro, and give 'er! use the horsepower to make money. again, anyone not wanting to spend $$$ on a mac pro, b/c it is a large expense and commitment, shouldn't be buying one b/c they're not a pro.

i'm editing my signature to reflect this ridiculous 'prosumer'.

i hate that word

Cheers,
Keebler

 

[FleurDuMal]

not at all.

this issue comes up from time to time.

i think what needs to happen is that the word 'prosumer' needs to be tick tacked to a bullseye at a rifle range and shot full of holes.

prosumer, shoshumer! bah!

one is either a 'consumer' or a 'professional'. how in God's name can anyone be in between??? imho, if you make MONEY or use a mac for work, you're a professional. anyone else is a consumer.

this massive error, and the world of pc thinking is what drives the 'midtower mac' conversations.

the imac is the 'midtower'. it's what you want if you won't want a laptop and don't want the mini and don't want the mac pros.

i think apple is playing it perfectly. if someone wants 1 TB of space inside their machine and doesn't want to pay for a mac pro, then there are plenty of willing 3rd party companies who manufacture quality storage units. and, with the price of those units (take your pick) and a 24" imac, it's still cheaper than a mac pro. and to boot, they are fast, reliable systems.

if you're a pro, then buy a mac pro, and give 'er! use the horsepower to make money. again, anyone not wanting to spend $$$ on a mac pro, b/c it is a large expense and commitment, shouldn't be buying one b/c they're not a pro.

i'm editing my signature to reflect this ridiculous 'prosumer'.

i hate that word

Cheers,
Keebler

A prosumer is a consumer whose interest in whatever they want to use their Mac for demands the power that a professional would demand. Simple.

 

[Yvan256]

the imac is the 'midtower'. it's what you want if you won't want a laptop and don't want the mini and don't want the mac pros.

I do want the iMac. However I don't want the built-in display. I really want a "headless iMac", i.e. sell me the internal components of the iMac in a new LCD-less case. It's got a decent enough GPU with enough GRAM, it uses 3.5" drives (so it's not as slow as a laptop), it can handle a decent amount of RAM, and it has FW800.

iMac mini? BYOM iMac? I don't care what it would be called, but Apple wouldn't have much R&D to do on this one. Take the iMac boards, make a new case. Aside from converting the LCD connection to a DVI output for the main display, it's only a matter of making a new case and coming up with a new computer name.

 

[roland.g]

I've said before that a box about 3-4 times the size of the Mini or so would be perfect. Do it in the same anodized of the Mac Pro and displays. Spec it with:

2.33 - 2.4 Merom or Conroe
1GB RAM, upgradable to 4GB, not as expensive as FB-DIMMs
Superdrive
2 HDD bays, 250GB standard, up to 1.5TB
7300 128, 7600 256 video options like the 24" iMac - also option x1900 for dual displays
2nd PCI slot for TV card or whatever
Airport and BT standard
1 FW 800, 2 FW 400 (1 front, 1 back), 4 USB (2 front, 2 back)

Priced at $1400-1800 and give me a Apple display bundling discount.
Add 20" for extra $649, 23" for extra $899, 30" for extra $1849 (probably needs special video card too?)


The Mac Pro case is too big and the power is overkill for my needs. However, I really want 2 internal drives, more RAM options, and most of all a 23" or 30" ACD connected. Of course I also want updated displays with built in iSights.

Even at $1800, adding $175 to bump to 2GB, another $125 for video upgrade and $849 for the 23" display is $2949 for a complete system. That's $400 more than a same specs 24" iMac with room for more RAM, a 2nd drive enclosure built in, and a very sexy 23" display. If you drop the base to $1700 it might be just about right.

 

[roland.g]

I think the reason this won't happen is not that it will cannibalize iMac sales, but that it will cannibalize Mac Pro sales. There are people buying Mac Pros who would go for this machine instead.

 

[xfiftyfour]

Well, would you?

I know I would in a heartbeat. I think Apple should discontinue the 24" iMac because prosumers want the expandability of the Mac Pro, but at a better pricepoint with not so many unnecessary features. Here's what I'd like to see:

>either a 2.33 GHz C2D or 2.0 GHz Xeon
>1 superdrive (don't think anybody NEEDS two, plus it'd cut down on the size)
>2 hard disk bays for up to 1.5 TB, base model 250 GB
>1 GB RAM standard, but certainly 16 GB is not necessary for the maximum
>NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT (probably just 128 MB, maybe 256)
>2 FW400, 1 FW800, 4 USB, 2 on keyboard
>No PCI express (prosumers don't need 8 30 inch Cinemas)
>Would be nice if they threw in AirPort card, but not necesary
>$1799-$1999 for base model

Would you buy that?

At that price point, no. With the student discount, I can get the 2.0Ghz Mac Pro for $1999.. so settling for less at only a couple hundred discount (considering that even at the price point, it'd be cheaper for students.. let's say 1599-1799) wouldn't be worth it to me.

I do think Apple needs a mid-range mac, though. Right now the choices are WAY too limited for the average user. If you have a nice display already, then you have three options: Sell it and get an iMac, or keep it and get an under-spec'd (rip-off) mac mini, or keep it and get an over-spec'd (for the average user) and expensive tower.

 

[2ndPath]

not at all.

this issue comes up from time to time.

i think what needs to happen is that the word 'prosumer' needs to be tick tacked to a bullseye at a rifle range and shot full of holes.

prosumer, shoshumer! bah!

one is either a 'consumer' or a 'professional'. how in God's name can anyone be in between??? imho, if you make MONEY or use a mac for work, you're a professional. anyone else is a consumer.

You can always define it like this. But then there are Professionals who are fine with an iMac and there are consumers who need more than what the iMac offers. Whether you're a consumer or professional does not determine your computing needs. Therefore differenciating between consumer and professional machines make only limited sense.

I think the reason this won't happen is not that it will cannibalize iMac sales, but that it will cannibalize Mac Pro sales. There are people buying Mac Pros who would go for this machine instead.

This is exactly what I think too. So I'm afraid we won't see the midrange tower anytime soon.

 

[gaelan]

the inability to use the screen as an external display for other devices is the only thing killing the deal for an imac at this point...

don't want to pay for a screen i don't need if i can't use it properly...such as hooking up a gaming console to it for gaming.