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Would you buy a non Intel Mac anymore?

Toronto Mike said:
Is it unreasonable to expect 5 more years with such a system outputting my own literature and website?
Click to expand...

Mike, I provide tech support for a graphics design company and I maintain about 20 Macs there from G4s to Mac Pros. In my opinion, the G5s are already showing their age. Five years of usefulness isn't likely, at least not if you want to keep up with the latest versions of Photoshop and Mac OS. Well before that you'll start seeing less and less support for PPC computers amongst 3rd party vendors and eventually Apple too.

Now look at these comparisons:

http://www.barefeats.com/harper.html

As you can see in the Photoshop tests, the quad G5 was spanked by the quad Mac Pros.

I can see your dilemma. A Mac Pro is really pricey, a Mac Mini is wimpy and overpriced, and a G5 is sort of on the edge in terms of value vs. performance. Really this just illuminates once again the gaping hole in Apple's product line, as they lack a decent mid-range headless desktop. Sorry, no easy answers on this one. If you get a G5 now, it'll definitely serve you well, but for five years is doubtful.
 
Thanks for the reply Yadmonkey

Those comparisons are nothing short of astounding when you consider that 3 years ago the G5 was it. In my heart I know you're right. I see dual 2.0 G5s on Craig's still asking $1,100 to $1,300 Cdn, and often you know you want to add a video card, more Ram, raid cards - just to juice up the speed - and even then you're not close to the new Mac Pro Towers that come off the rack. You're talking a good chunk of cash for a chip that's been replaced. I guess I have these romantic notions of making something that is perfectly good, last.
The pace of planned obsolescence is blinding - certainly draining on the wallet for anyone trying to stay current in the professional realm.

I had hopes last year of the 24 inch imac being a good alternative - then Apple decides to force a glossy screen only down our faces. Amazing.

I'm still on the fence over this issue because as long as I do artsy fartsy stuff
for myself professionally, a G5 might suffice. I do suspect that I'll have to step up to the plate, suck it in, and lay out a major amount of coin.

I thought the best comprise might be to get the first generation Mac Pro 2.66 as they come off leases next year. We'll see.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
I bought a G4 Mac Mini right here on the forums. It was a great machine.
But I just had no use for it because it was underpowered compared to my MacBook (I had a MacBook at the time).

Later I sold it, and now somebody is using it instead of me just letting it sit on my desk fro no reason.

I would not, unless it was super cheap, and I find a use for it.
 
I gave a friend an old PPC machine, and she still uses it to surf the web and type up papers for school. Not everyone uses FCS and CS. Even still runs iLife ok.
 
Geez, it took 55 posts for someone to mention the PowerBook G5? That joke must be getting really old. 😀
 
Toronto Mike said:
Thanks for the reply Yadmonkey

Those comparisons are nothing short of astounding when you consider that 3 years ago the G5 was it. In my heart I know you're right. I see dual 2.0 G5s on Craig's still asking $1,100 to $1,300 Cdn, and often you know you want to add a video card, more Ram, raid cards - just to juice up the speed - and even then you're not close to the new Mac Pro Towers that come off the rack. You're talking a good chunk of cash for a chip that's been replaced. I guess I have these romantic notions of making something that is perfectly good, last.
The pace of planned obsolescence is blinding - certainly draining on the wallet for anyone trying to stay current in the professional realm.

I had hopes last year of the 24 inch imac being a good alternative - then Apple decides to force a glossy screen only down our faces. Amazing.

I'm still on the fence over this issue because as long as I do artsy fartsy stuff
for myself professionally, a G5 might suffice. I do suspect that I'll have to step up to the plate, suck it in, and lay out a major amount of coin.

I thought the best comprise might be to get the first generation Mac Pro 2.66 as they come off leases next year. We'll see.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Click to expand...

Now I know I have made arguments in pro of a PowerPC computer there are factors you may want to consider before upgrading to a higher speed G5 as apposed to a Mac Pro with software upgrade costs. Mainly the price to benefit ratio. The main factor to consider is would you be more productive with a Mac Pro, more money?

Given that the price of component upgrades would be about the same between a Mac Pro and a G5 the main difference in cost is the Tower itself $1200 CDN for Dual 2.0 G5 versus $2400 CDN base Mac Pro. Given the greater speed of the Mac Pro you can potentially cut down your waiting time for Photoshop to complete a task in half. So you have to look at how much time you would spend per year waiting on filters as apposed to completing more jobs for clients.

If you are currently averaging $30 per hour. You would have to spend 80 hours per year or 1.6 hours per week (50 weeks a year) waiting on filters to equal the price difference ($1200 / (hourly rate/2) = hours per year). This $1200 price difference would balance out if you are able to get more work from clients to fill your open 40 hours. However any more time spent per year waiting for filters could mean more money or more free time for you.

Just use this formula
Hours spent waiting for Mac Pro = A
Hours spent waiting for G5 = B

Value of Mac Pro = D
Hourly rate = E
Price Difference = $1200;

A = 1/2 * B
A= B/2

D = ((B/2) * (E)) - $1200

If you make $30 per hour and lose 40 hours on the G5 then.
D = ((40/2) * ($30)) - $1200
D = $600 - $1200 = -$600
so at $30 per hour and 40 hours time lost on the G5 you would lose $600 buying a Mac Pro.

If you make $40 per hour and lose 200 hours per year, 4 per week working 50 weeks per year. Then...
D = ((200/2) * ($40)) - $1200
D = $4000 - $1200 = $2800
So with 200 hours lost on the G5 you could potentially be making an additional $2800 with a Mac Pro. That $2800 could be additional revenue or 60 hours 1.5 weeks additional vacation time.

You should play around with this factoring in how much you are making per hour and how much time you spend waiting per week. Though a Mac Pro is expensive you could be making more money or have more free time.

I probably could have made this clearer but hopefully it is clear enough. Since the computer is a business expense I have not factored in taxes on your hourly rate average. But the $2800 gain in the example would be less after taxes obviously.

If you spend a great deal of time waiting you may consider an Octo core Mac Pro as its performance benefit may out weigh the Quad core in the long run.

For either the Mac Pro or G5 I would say install 6-8GB of RAM and 4 Hard drives in a RAID 0+1 array for redundancy and speed. This would get rid of bottlenecks surrounding the CPU.
 
Velocity4

You have made an excellent argument regarding the money/time benefit of the newer Mac Pro Towers. Without a doubt, to be able to do a task in less time such as your figures show makes good business sense.

I'm not sure how this time saving would work out for me in my situation because I don't think I use a computer enough in those situations where the Mac Pro has the decided advantage over the G5. Again I don't have enough experience with these sort of tasks to compare the differences. However, for my future aspirations of heavier files with Painter/Photoshop it is worth considering. I have sat there crunching through heavy images with my G4 thinking that it's never going to make it.

One point I'd like to add to your solid case for the Mac Pro is the long term cost of software spread out over years multiplied by the number of applications purchased. The software you buy today that goes with a Mac Pro stays relevant for much longer because of the longer productive use of the computer. I think we are at a mature stage now in terms of what these machines can do in terms of output for print; the dots of ink are only so small and the paper can only support so much resolution in terms of dot gain. Even the software for printing is only inching forward in tiny increments with improvements that seem useful and needed. They could stop bloating the programs and concentrate on efficient code and there would be no further demands on the hardware to keep up. But then, they would be out of business selling hardware and software. Practically speaking, I wonder if it's just games, video, and audio still driving this hardware race?

I do think the Mac Pro is the better long term value considering the software costs. It's amazing how much these pro towers stubbornly hold onto their value. By the time you can get them for $1,000, you'd rather have the newest one instead.

One last kick at the can. If I did go with a G5 - would I still be able to communicate with the printing world in say 5-6 years using CS3 files? Would the G5 files be excluded at that point in an Intel world? Is there any past precedents that might serve as a guide? Maybe this seems like an irrational question for someone hoping to save $1,200.

Thanks for your consideration.
 
I would never buy a PPC Mac in this day and age, but when I will need a new Mac (sometime in 2010) definitely will go Intel route (again)
 
I have to keep a PPC Mac on hand to drive my Epson SC3000, as Epson have not deigned to release an Intel driver, and a new A2 printer will cost me over £1,000.
Epson R-1800 does 13x19 and prints on printable CD/DVD's.
It's $699.00 (340 pounds english, or so)or so. handles thick media & all the other canvases ect..
I love mine.😀
 
@ Toronto Mike: Why don't you just go with a 2,4 ghz 20" iMac (or an even better one since they should be updated soon) + a decent 24" monitor. You can use the glossy iMacs screen for mail or itunes or palettes, and the 24" one for your work.

This will provide you with a faster and more future proof machine than a G5 for around the same amount of money and the whole setup will still be cheaper than a mac pro. Apart from that, you'll need a screen for that mp too, unless you already have one, then you can use that one with the iMac.
 
Toronto Mike said:
Clipped for length...
One last kick at the can. If I did go with a G5 - would I still be able to communicate with the printing world in say 5-6 years using CS3 files? Would the G5 files be excluded at that point in an Intel world? Is there any past precedents that might serve as a guide? Maybe this seems like an irrational question for someone hoping to save $1,200.

Thanks for your consideration.
Click to expand...
Is it definite that CS3 files will be usable by the print world in 5-6 years? No. However it highly likely. Since files are not platform specific only programs are. If I can open Photoshop 3 files, a program thats about 14 years old made to work with 68K macs, on either Intel or PPC computers using Mac OS X or Windows. I would wager that CS4 or 5 would open CS 3 files. Heck most new files you can open in older versions as long as an unsupported feature is not used in the file. But how often do people make use of all new features?

On the point of coding efficiency I agree with you whole heartedly their. Considering that when I had bought my former 466mhz G4 I could open 7 or 8 movies in Quicktime Player at 320x240 and have them play simultaneously at full frame rate. But throw one of those videos through Flash player in your web browser and it will studder and pause like no other. Sometimes I think it is not laziness in coding so much as Intel, IBM and other big CPU players bribing them to make the software inefficient😉.

As for my estimates they are only really useful if that gained time could be put towards additional clients or other gainful tasks. Heck even if you saved only 40 hours per year though it would cost you more that could be a week of vacation, guitar lessons, drunken stupor or gaming. Plus there is always the coolness factor😎. Sorry but I do like playing the Devils Advocate.

In all honesty you would probably be better off with the G5 unless the Mac Pro would actually make you more money or give you an appreciable amount of free time. You may consider an iMac since it is faster than a G5 though you would be limited to 4GB RAM either way you would need external Hard Drives for RAID 0+1.
 
Thanks for all your input over this issue and the time taken for your responses. They have been most helpful in arriving at an informed decision.

You're right Velocity4 over the issue of time/efficiency/cost equation. The difference in depreciation of the G5 2.0 over a new Mac Pro isn't great when you factor in all the other hardware add ons (raid cards, Ram, Hard drives) over the life of the machine. You need the adds ons eventually no matter what machine you buy. Since the Mac Pro has the greater longevity, spending more now makes more sense in the long run. It comes down to the upfront costs being a killer. I'd love to avoid that, but that is the nature of the beast.

I've considered the 24inch imac - but when you see an image on a 30 inch lcd - you just know you have to have a tower. That screen is just so monumental, I'm in awe just beholding those image sizes. Really, the size alone is enough to give you a thrill. I find it so counter productive to be using my 21 inch Samsung now. I love it's image, but the size seems too small when you are always pushing windows out of the way. Hey, we all need to rationalize why we need to drop thousands of dollars. This is art remember, and self indulgence is expected. Yet saving money always quietly whispers over one's shoulder.

Anyways computers are addictive and expensive. 😱
 
mperkins37 said:
I have to keep a PPC Mac on hand to drive my Epson SC3000, as Epson have not deigned to release an Intel driver, and a new A2 printer will cost me over £1,000.
Epson R-1800 does 13x19 and prints on printable CD/DVD's.
It's $699.00 (340 pounds english, or so)or so. handles thick media & all the other canvases ect..
I love mine.😀
Click to expand...
Unfortunately that is considerably less than A2.
 
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