Regardless of peoples definition of monopoly I think their points still stands. Harping on someone because they misused a word is as effective as telling someone theyre wrong because they misspelled something.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Would you buy an Apple Clone?
- Thread starter 204467
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I would. I used to own a Umax c500 clone back in the 90's. It wasn't great, but it was cheap and I needed a computer. I had it for about 4 years too. It never had any problems.
[/QUOTE]
We're now veering into debates of logic and existentialism --- which is perhaps better left to be discussed in a different thread so we don't hijack this one.
However I will still state that agreed on definitions allow for ease of communication.
Do I use precise language? off course not. I always feel like I miss use words, or I can't think of the word I want to use. I miss-spell ALL the time. But I make every attempt at learning and develop.
Where do you work? or what do you study? are you in a field that has NO specific language?
I am interested in where the evident passion you hold is going to take certain topics. Allow me to interpret what YOUR use of monopoly suggests.
-- anyone who holds proprietary technology/knowledge is guilty of monopoly.
So...
Does Sony have a monopoly because its cameras require it's own memory stick rather then the more standard SD card? Perhaps not, because other companies are allowed to produce the memory stick.
Does VW have a monopoly in the car market because I can't throw a Honda engine into it?
Does McDonald's have a monopoly because I can't get a Big Mac at Burger King?
Thoughts?
There is much more to buying an 
machine then just buying a computer. Its quite hard to explain but once you do, you've got it. Your paying for the unparalleled design and build quality. They give great customer support and the most stable operating system out there. Sorry to make macs sound like the only computers out there, but for me at least, its true. 
machine then just buying a computer. Its quite hard to explain but once you do, you've got it. Your paying for the unparalleled design and build quality. They give great customer support and the most stable operating system out there. Sorry to make macs sound like the only computers out there, but for me at least, its true. 
Agreed, it's better to spare this place of far off concepts and philosophy.
I don't care if I win or lose argument for monopoly.
I didn't even care from the beginning if Apple is monopoly or not.
But if I see worth in using some term, when it meant at least some qualities of a subject matter - I will.
And I believe I don't take too much liberty with this, because the point is for Apple to improve, rather than make final & harming judgment on it.
I'm here - because I care about Apple & Mac.
And I believe cutting it a slack here or there - is not best - nor for them nor for us.
Yes, I do take pride in using a Mac. (I can justify premium & evangelize)
But not to a point that I'll defend any crap Apple does.
Yeah, with all my passion I don't give a damn about Sony, though I still have P910i with MSDuo. And I remember paying twice for less capacity.
If there were no SD/etc cards existed - than it would be perfectly fine.
But, withhelding users from clearly better tech (more convenient & bigger capacity - SD/miniSD) - to leverage your proprietary'ies - isn't it monopolistic behavior?
Yes, they are perfectly OK with the law to do it, and no one allowed legally to call them monopolistic, as long there are other smartphones and cameras.
But is it what you want to expect from it?
Is this - "I'm not obliged to, you know" - you content to hear from your friends, partners? Ones who benefit from your love, affection & business?
They, as you say "guilty" - if that practice :
1) if they harm somebody with such limitations, and there's no (easy, legal, etc?) way to take your business everywhere.
2) has no (tech, etc) real obstacles to be done (hence all the obstacles are artificial)
What is they "guilty" of, what is the name of the offense - should I really care about it?
There is much more to buying an
True, that's why we need some fresh blood - some real competition.
We need something much better than Sony/Alienware with Vista on it, to make Apple sweat, and not sit on laurels.
When you do truly love someone, you embrace & support them, but don't give them sweets, when they have to take care of the bitterness.
Look at the Teen USA Olympics gymnastics team. Everybody supports Alicia, but no one would say : we love you as you are - you don't need to improve.
What are you smoking, man? Have you even read my posts here on the forum? I have quite a few posts where I bash Apple quite a bit.
It's not defending Apple to point out where you're WRONG about them being a monopoly. If they have such terrible business practices, you DON'T SHOP THERE. It's really as simple as that. Comparing OS X to fresh air is not fair at all, as last time I checked, OS X was not something we couldn't live without.
No matter how much you or me and anyone likes it, a business is not a monopoly when they're not a monopoly, and saying they have bad business practices only shows that you should do what you can to point those out and get people to boycott their products. Businesses die with no sales, and Apple is no exception. However, if you can come up with a convincing argument as to how not allowing OS X on generic PC hardware is a bad business practice,
prevents you from buying a computer/using a computer/what have you, then I will admit I'm wrong, say that Apple is a monopoly, and help you report them to whatever federal agency will beat down their door and make them sell every computer on the face of the earth.
By the way, the answer to all your questions is yes. All corporations have ALWAYS been about making money, as without making money, they can't provide a product. If you run a coffee shop, you can do whatever the hell you want. But if you break health code regulations, be prepared to be shut down, and if no one likes your service, be prepared to go out of business. Would you really have it any other way?
The MacPro should be about:
MacPro Quad 8800GT: 2170€
8GB Kingston FB Dimm: 328€
=2498€ (have to add the monitor)
For the clone to get near imagined "Mac Pro light" specs without overclocking:
Add:
8800 GTS 512 130€ (+35€)
WiFi +30€
Bluetooth +30€
Soundcard +150€
Q9550 (2,83 GHz) 255€ (+5)
iLife 65€
The beQuiet PSU i mentioned is not some cheap crap, and is enough to power my system which takes about 200 Watts measured, but if you like something else better...
Tagan TG600-BZ - PipeRock Series - 600 Watt 110€ (+35€)
So the Clone is:
1335€
+350€ = 1685€ (have to add the monitor) maybe sold for 1800€ that would be 698€ less (about 750€ less if you do not want the sound card) than the MacPro.
I must agree that it is not "easy" to match an Apple, but for people who do not Need 10.1 sound and FW800 a Clone could be a good alternative. If you do not need 4 cores at 2,66 GHz just replace the Q9450 with an E8400 (2x3GHz) and save 125€.
Are we talking H4ckint0sh, or certified "Apple Clone" that does not break Apples EULA?
This usually happens with iLife, Final Cut and Toast if people do not get QuartzExtreme/CoreImage enabled, again a propper/certified Clone should not have these problems.
No problem.
One recognized definition of a monopoly is:
the market condition that exists when there is only one seller.
If you want OS X, then there is only one seller of hardware. Apple obviously does not have exclusive control of the computer market, but they have control of the OS X market.
My point is that Microsoft does not have a monopoly over PCs because everyone and their grandmother builds PC hardware and licenses windows for it. Apple has complete control over what hardware OS X runs on (at least legally). This is what makes Apple products (and OS X in my opinion) much more stable than windows -- which is one reason I like OS X.
Having done the whole OSX86 route I can tell you it isn't 100% worth it, the novelty quickly wears off and your just left with a Leopard machine that runs slowly than a same specced mac...
I had a fake Rolex once that someone had given to me. I wore it a couple of times untill one day I was in the car with a client who complimented me on the watch while showing me his $25,000 gold Daytona Rolex.
In this moment of truth I mumbled some sort of thanks for the compliment and then never wore the watch again.
I don't know if this is a perfect analogy for this question but I know that owning a Mac Clone would feel just about as good as owning a fake rolex.
darren
In this moment of truth I mumbled some sort of thanks for the compliment and then never wore the watch again.
I don't know if this is a perfect analogy for this question but I know that owning a Mac Clone would feel just about as good as owning a fake rolex.
darren
And if you want to play Wii games, or, say, run the Wii version of Opera, you have to buy Nintendo's hardware. Companies can't have monopolies over their own product, so you're using that definition of a monopoly way too literally. If you use it that specifically, every company is a monopoly. I already explained why you have choices besides Apple and OS X. Just because Microsoft's business strategy is to license Windows to everyone they can, doesn't mean Apple's has to be the same.
In the past I would...
In the past I would have bought an Apple clone because I was short on money. I always bought Dell PCs because they had a decent warranty and were cheap (sub $500). However, if I could have purchased an Apple clone (or even better...select MacOS instead of Windows when I made my Dell purchase) I probably would have done that.
However, now I have an iMac because of its space-saving and eye-pleasing design. There aren't any other manufacturers that make anything as nice, therefore for now I'm going to stick to genuine Apple stuff. (Yes I know Dell FINALLY has an all-in-one but I think it's ugly compared to the iMac).
In the past I would have bought an Apple clone because I was short on money. I always bought Dell PCs because they had a decent warranty and were cheap (sub $500). However, if I could have purchased an Apple clone (or even better...select MacOS instead of Windows when I made my Dell purchase) I probably would have done that.
However, now I have an iMac because of its space-saving and eye-pleasing design. There aren't any other manufacturers that make anything as nice, therefore for now I'm going to stick to genuine Apple stuff. (Yes I know Dell FINALLY has an all-in-one but I think it's ugly compared to the iMac).
If Apple allowed their software to be used on alternative hardware I'd get a Sony or Asus in a second (funds allowing). I like Apple's software, flaws and all, but it's hardware leaves me wanting, especially the quality.
Exactly! I guess I could scream and yell at Microsoft that I can't play my XBOX 360 games on an older XBOX. Or on a PS2/PS3 for that matter [and vice-versa]. I guess people should ban both of those consoles until they make them cross compatible...
The reason companies do this is because why? THEY WANT TO MAKE $$$. Good God, I don't have a Masters in Economics, and the guy that posted on here who does should be ashamed of himself. The idea of going into a business is to make a product, or offer a service that no one else does, and try to make $$$ from that to sustain a living...pretty simple really.
Wasn't the LG Prada was it?
However, now I have an iMac because of its space-saving and eye-pleasing design. There aren't any other manufacturers that make anything as nice, therefore for now I'm going to stick to genuine Apple stuff. (Yes I know Dell FINALLY has an all-in-one but I think it's ugly compared to the iMac).
HP do one that seems more advanced than the iMac, usability-wise. Spec-wise, it's vastly inferior. It's called the HP Touch.
http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/touchsmart
I thought they did? You buy a PC you can get a choice of Windows XP or Vista. You get a Mac, you get OS X. Though, it's important to bear in mind, Microsoft make money from their Windows Licenses only. Not the hardware too. For them taking that away is like taking away a milk bottle from a baby. It's gonna decline, fast. But no, apple don't have to be the same, no one does. But instead they fix you in by stating in their EULA that you cannot use a non-apple branded computer to run their operatiing system. That's like Microsoft saying you cannot use anything but a Dell branded computer to run Windows. It just cannot happen. Sony, Toshiba, HP would go ballistic. So, the EULA directly results in Apple building a monopoly, as much as making sure that the iTunes system is locked into the iPhone and iPod. You can't use either, as far as I am aware with anything else. It's something I'm sure the likes of Real et al won't be happy about either. It's not monopolistic, it's anti-competitive.
Apple EULA said:
Actually, it just turned out that they continued to offer XP because Vista was a mess, and users screamed to keep getting it. That will eventually cease, only for them to offer one of their many flavor's of Vista...
In the end it's a free society, so you can get what you want. I really love to listen to Howard Stern. It sucks that he left terrestrial radio to go to satellite. I don't think it's fair that I have to pay to listen to him, but if I do, I need to shell out the money for the special radio and subscription. It's my choice not to buy it, and its not his obligation to please everyone, or cater to those who don't want to pay...
I think Vista's short lived, they seem to be going all out with their new release, which should be out in 2009. But I still don't understand why they don't transfer to EFI rather than the legacy BIOS system.
I think they're stuck in time. I've seen the BETA of their "new Windows 7". Doesn't look any different than Vista. I suspect it'll be nothing more than Vista SP2. I wouldn't wait for it either. They're notorious for delays. XP was delayed, Vista was delayed, and so will W7. I'd bet it won't be until after the new year [2010]...
Windows 7 seems to be drastically different from what I've been reading about... quite strange they'd release that as a separate version. I'd agree, it seems more like SP2/SP3 for Vista.
The version I referred to must therefore be Windows 8, Or Midori.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7540282.stm
The version I referred to must therefore be Windows 8, Or Midori.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7540282.stm
Yes, Midori is their newest Vaporware System. Like Cairo, and all the other things that were going to be written from the ground up but never quite made it. Don't get me wrong, if they can do it, great. I'm not an MS hater [I use Office 08, and support their servers, email, etc.]. I'd prefer they focus on the server side and app side personally. Open it up, and make it more easily integrated into other environments. But that's just MO...oh well.
How about if benchmarks and testing showed it worked not only faster, but proved the clone more reliable? Kinda like Psystar have shown?
http://www.psystar.com/openmac_osx86_compatible.html
Personally I have no care of how the machine looks, as it's all hidden from view.
I've no idea what their support would be like, but I'd imagine it's fairly good, I've not managed to find many reviews, but for the most part they seem quite good.
Personally for me though, the pinnacle of quality and aftersales service belongs to the people who supplied my workstation, over at www.armari.co.uk. You can get it with OpenSuse instead of Windows, which of course you can download for free too from www.opensuse.org (for pretty much all platforms). It works well.
I think I'd be quite sure to say, OpenSuse has next to no virus/trojans/exploits working on it.
http://www.psystar.com/openmac_osx86_compatible.html
Psystar said:
Personally I have no care of how the machine looks, as it's all hidden from view.
I've no idea what their support would be like, but I'd imagine it's fairly good, I've not managed to find many reviews, but for the most part they seem quite good.
Personally for me though, the pinnacle of quality and aftersales service belongs to the people who supplied my workstation, over at www.armari.co.uk. You can get it with OpenSuse instead of Windows, which of course you can download for free too from www.opensuse.org (for pretty much all platforms). It works well.
I think I'd be quite sure to say, OpenSuse has next to no virus/trojans/exploits working on it.
Hmmm...I don't think some people quite understand what I meant, or else I said it badly.
I know many people would like to get non-Apple computers and run OS X on them; unfortunately, that is not possible. Now, when I say clone, I don't mean hackintosh, I mean fully functioning, legal, non-Apple computer running Mac OS on it just as an Apple computer would. Think of the clone days; the clones were not hackintoshes, they were computers that were running Mac OS just like a Mac. A few people in this thread say that their clone is still working today, or worked fine back when it was technologically relevant. Therefore, it wouldn't be a Franken-computer that one is never sure if it will work or not; it would be a functioning computer running legally on Mac OS without the need for any hacks. I think that's all I wanted to say, so I hope that clears up some of the confusion.
EDIT: Changed OS X to Mac OS. Forgot OS X wasn't around during the clone days.
I know many people would like to get non-Apple computers and run OS X on them; unfortunately, that is not possible. Now, when I say clone, I don't mean hackintosh, I mean fully functioning, legal, non-Apple computer running Mac OS on it just as an Apple computer would. Think of the clone days; the clones were not hackintoshes, they were computers that were running Mac OS just like a Mac. A few people in this thread say that their clone is still working today, or worked fine back when it was technologically relevant. Therefore, it wouldn't be a Franken-computer that one is never sure if it will work or not; it would be a functioning computer running legally on Mac OS without the need for any hacks. I think that's all I wanted to say, so I hope that clears up some of the confusion.
EDIT: Changed OS X to Mac OS. Forgot OS X wasn't around during the clone days.