Would you use a hackintosh in business?

[MacHamster68]

I wouldn't recommend using a Hackintosh for business. You need reliability and time is money. You invest time in system support that you could be investing in your real business. To that end, you quickly get a diminishing return on your savings. The iMac isn't that expensive and neither is the mini.

If you have a larger business, the support issue is simply compounded.

As to Apple's enforcement of the EULA - it seems very unlikely that they are going to go after the home hobbiest. For that matter, they probably are equally unconcerned about one and two-person operations. Larger businesses should try to be legal in all regards. As mentioned before, why would you want the hassle?

Where Apple is concerned is a company like Psystar who went out and directly competed with Apple using Apple's OS. There is no way Apple could let that stand. Psystar bought copies of OSX, in an effort to be legit, but then they went and loaded it on non-Apple hardware and sold it. A clear, corporate, for-profit violation of the EULA on a large scale. Apple had to respond and they did.

there are PearC Hackintoshes out there , technically no Hackintoshes as there is no hacking needed whatsoever to install OSX from a original Apple snow leopard disc (OSX included if you order a PearC ) and they stand up against every modern Mac in reliability , mainboards from Gigabyte , harddrives from Samsung and WD ,GPU's from MSI ,ram from Kingston , so no cheap parts like in Mac's
and the German company PearC is targeting that market, people who are upset because their Mac they bought for lots of money is not as reliable as the price would suggest , and as said under European Law Apples Eula is invalid and does not stand a chance in court...
For Apple hardware only
Apple does not produce CPU's they dont produce the GPU's they dont produce the Harddrives , so where is Apple hardware? apart from the case there are absolut no Apple parts inside , the logicboards are proprietary yes , but only in shape!! on those there are only generic chipsets fitted ,free to buy by everybody, nothing made by Apple

Apple does not want competition thats all, but they got them now since 2009 with PearC cheaper and better parts fitted and Made in Germany not China

ok i am not a fan of Intel in Mac's , but hey i order a PearC ..high quality for a Fair price is convincing even me
Sorry Apple , but i want high quality for a Fair price and not only acceptable quality for a high price

 

[Judas1]

I haven't read through all the replies. Just wanted to share some useful info. There is a way to circumvent the EULA. Your license allows you to run MacOS on one machine. But you have the right to modify that machine in anyway you want. If you replace the hard drive, you have the right to reinstall the OS. You have the right to change any hardware including ram, cpu, and case. Therefore, you can build you own pc, and intall the original hd with MacOS on it into that pc, and it would be legal. In fact, I believe you can do a fresh install on the pc, but must document that the original mac you bought is no longer running MacOS.

 

[gnasher729]

Where Apple is concerned is a company like Psystar who went out and directly competed with Apple using Apple's OS. There is no way Apple could let that stand. Psystar bought copies of OSX, in an effort to be legit, but then they went and loaded it on non-Apple hardware and sold it. A clear, corporate, for-profit violation of the EULA on a large scale. Apple had to respond and they did.

Even with that they might have got away. What Apple could _not_ accept was that this company made very loud claims that what they were doing was perfectly legal and Apple could do nothing about it. And the biggest win for Apple was the court decision that running MacOS X on a non-Apple computer will _always_ be a DMCA infringement.

 

[Judas1]

Even with that they might have got away. What Apple could _not_ accept was that this company made very loud claims that what they were doing was perfectly legal and Apple could do nothing about it. And the biggest win for Apple was the court decision that running MacOS X on a non-Apple computer will _always_ be a DMCA infringement.

I'm not familiar with that court decision that restricts MacOS to only Mac branded computers. But I am pretty sure installing one MacOS os on your personal machine (provided you own a license to use MacOS), whether its Apple brand or not, falls within fair use.

 

[VeganHipster]

Like I said before, if you use supported hardware and follow numerous guides on Tonymacx86 or InsanelyMac you will be good to go. Problems arise when you try to install OS X on a netbook (that guy is an idiot, just cause he had a bad experience with a hackintosh on his **** notebook means all hackintosh system are bad, right?), use an AMD processor, use hardware not supported by Apple. But the myth that Hackintosh systems are not as stable as regular Macs is not true in most cases.

But for your uses you might as well just get a Mac Mini.

 

[balamw]

I'm not familiar with that court decision that restricts MacOS to only Mac branded computers. But I am pretty sure installing one MacOS os on your personal machine (provided you own a license to use MacOS), whether its Apple brand or not, falls within fair use.

It's the license agreement:

http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx1071_usb.pdf

you are granted a limited, non-transferable, non-exclusive license:
[...] to download, install, use and run for personal, non-commercial use, one (1) copy of the Apple Software directly on each Apple-branded computer running Mac OS X Snow Leopard or Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server (“Mac Computer”) that you own or control;

"Fair use" has a specific legal meaning that does not seem to cover this scenario. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

B

 

[blackhand1001]

Honestly I would just transfer your license over to windows with adobe, they make it pretty simple and buy or build a cheap 400-600 dollar pc. You can get a pretty decent system for the price with a quad core decent gnu and windows 7 runs excellent on just about anything. I've ran on machines as old as 2001 and its was perfectly usable. Its flies on any modern dual or quad core. Heck even vista sp2 and windows 7 run faster on this macbook than they do in lion. If you really want it to fly get a like 64gb ssd and install the software on it and relocate you documents onto a larger hdd. You can do this for all your folders in your user profile. I have this setup on my phenom II system in my sig and its amazing. The best thing is this change is transparent to all your programs so theres no compatibility issues.

I'd definitely look into it. I got my mom an on sale 230 dollar (normally 300) emachines with an athlon II x2 2.8ghz and 2gb of ram to replace her 8-9 year old p4 system a few months ago and its very fast as well. I was surprised at how good the build quality is and its whisper quiet as well.

 

[Judas1]

Thanks, that was helpful.
It seems Apple wants to restrict you to Apple-brand computers, but I don't think they can enforce that in court. What is Apple Brand specifically? Does it mean a computer which has their logo? A computer that they specifically built? Or a hardware compliant computer? Because Apple can not restrict how you modify your personal computer. And a computer is just an assembly of parts, no one part is unique and is Apple-brand.

There was a court case with respect to smart phones, that essentially say that you can unlock your personal phone if you want to. Carriers want to restrict your phone to just being usable only on their network, but the restriction is unenforcible because you have the right to modify your phone to enhance it.

Similarly you can enhance all the parts of your computer. What hardware can Apple restrict you from modifying? So following this logic, you can install MacOS on any hardware compliant computer, as long as you have a license, and you are running one OS per machine.

 

[chrismacguy]

I haven't read through all the replies. Just wanted to share some useful info. There is a way to circumvent the EULA. Your license allows you to run MacOS on one machine. But you have the right to modify that machine in anyway you want. If you replace the hard drive, you have the right to reinstall the OS. You have the right to change any hardware including ram, cpu, and case. Therefore, you can build you own pc, and intall the original hd with MacOS on it into that pc, and it would be legal. In fact, I believe you can do a fresh install on the pc, but must document that the original mac you bought is no longer running MacOS.

That is incorrect. You are not allowed to transfer the Mac OS X software off of an Apple Branded Computer, even if you keep the same Hard Drive, since it is no longer Apple Branded (Legal definition of branded: Made and Sold by the Trademark holder for the Apple Brand - i.e. It has to be made by Apple, which your home-built computer certainly isn't). You can change the RAM, Optical drives, CPU etc, but you have to have a component that isn't replaceable (i.e. you can't just drop into a legit mac and have everything work exactly as it would from shipping), or is only replaceable by parts made by Apple (i.e. the Motherboard, NOT the Hard Drive, which is replaceable, from a Mac. Otherwise it is still breaking the EULA) for it to be a Apple Branded Computer.

 

[Clix Pix]

Personally, I would not trust a business that was running on a "hackintosh." I would figure that if they're dishonest in this respect, chances are that they would be dishonest in other respects as well.

 

[Judas1]

That is incorrect. You are not allowed to transfer the Mac OS X software off of an Apple Branded Computer, even if you keep the same Hard Drive, since it is no longer Apple Branded (Legal definition of branded: Made and Sold by the Trademark holder for the Apple Brand - i.e. It has to be made by Apple, which your home-built computer certainly isn't). You can change the RAM, Optical drives, CPU etc, but you have to have a component that isn't replaceable (i.e. you can't just drop into a legit mac and have everything work exactly as it would from shipping), or is only replaceable by parts made by Apple (i.e. the Motherboard, NOT the Hard Drive, which is replaceable, from a Mac. Otherwise it is still breaking the EULA) for it to be a Apple Branded Computer.

I get what you're saying and it makes sense. So the Apple-brand is still intact if you keep the original motherboard, but if you use a different motherboard, its no longer Apple brand?
The problem I have with the Apple brand restriction is that no parts is Apple specific. Everybody gets their parts from the same OEMs.

 

[MacHamster68]

That is incorrect. You are not allowed to transfer the Mac OS X software off of an Apple Branded Computer, even if you keep the same Hard Drive, since it is no longer Apple Branded (Legal definition of branded: Made and Sold by the Trademark holder for the Apple Brand - i.e. It has to be made by Apple, which your home-built computer certainly isn't). You can change the RAM, Optical drives, CPU etc, but you have to have a component that isn't replaceable (i.e. you can't just drop into a legit mac and have everything work exactly as it would from shipping), or is only replaceable by parts made by Apple (i.e. the Motherboard, NOT the Hard Drive, which is replaceable, from a Mac. Otherwise it is still breaking the EULA) for it to be a Apple Branded Computer.

but if you go in a shop and buy a OSX Snow leopard disc none of the shops give you the Eula to read and sign that you have read it , and therefor the Apple Eula is invalid , as you need to buy the disc first to read the EULA and accept it .

and i explained it there is apart from the board without any chips on! not a single Apple made component inside the Mac's , CPU' and chipsets made by Intel , GPU's made by Nvidia or AMD(ati) ,harddrives , Ram ..all generic parts that you can find in any pc , not in the same configuration in most cases
but PearC is choosing the parts so you basically have a Mac inside a PC case

If Apples EULA would refer to the case Meaning you could only install OSX on a computer in a Apple branded case that would make it illegal to install OSX if you drop a MacPro and because you dont want to buy a new Apple case and use a PC case instead . Or if you got a iMac which gets damaged from the outside and you want to make a Headless iMac out of it equally illegal to install OSX on

Apple does not want any competition, in fact Apple fears competition like the devil holy water
and i believe for the customer there had never been something better then healty competiton, it brings the quality to higher levels and the prices down

and i go even further Apples EULA is a farce and a con as i cant install OSX Snow Leopard on my Mac's even if i want to .
I can go in the shop buy the snow leopard disc but i cannot install it on my MAC's .
I own PPC MAC's and everyone who had bought a Powerpc Mac since the first OSX version 10.0 was conned to believe he gets a future proof product for years to come while Apple already planned the transition back then ,the PowerMac G5 i have was shipped in 2006 and is a unsupported system , so why should i invest in Mac's and pay a lot money to have after 5 years or even less a unsupported system , even the early intel Mac's the core duos are officially not supported by LION the last ones sold in 2006 too and unless you hack the system you cant install Lion , if you do that you make a hackintosh too as you install LION on a unsupported computer

 

[balamw]

but if you go in a shop and buy a OSX Snow leopard disc none of the shops give you the Eula to read and sign that you have read it , and therefor the Apple Eula is invalid , as you need to buy the disc first to read the EULA and accept it .

and i explained it there is apart from the board without any chips on! not a single Apple made component inside the Mac's , CPU' and chipsets made by Intel , GPU's made by Nvidia or AMD(ati) ,harddrives , Ram ..all generic parts that you can find in any pc , not in the same configuration in most cases
but PearC is choosing the parts so you basically have a Mac inside a PC case

If Apples EULA would refer to the case Meaning you could only install OSX on a computer in a Apple branded case that would make it illegal to install OSX if you drop a MacPro and because you dont want to buy a new Apple case and use a PC case instead . Or if you got a iMac which gets damaged from the outside and you want to make a Headless iMac out of it equally illegal to install OSX on

Your mileage may vary. None of these cases are crystal clear. What you say may be so in specific jurisdictions, but not in others.

FWIW all the Apple EULA/SLAs are available before purchase here: http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/ and the URL is explicitly posted on my Snow Leopard box at least. To say it is not made available is (IMHO) stretching the truth. Ignorance of the law or a license agreement generally does not exempt you of it.


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Apple should stop selling OSX disc and only give them for free to people who can prove they install it on a MAC !

They have essentially done this for Lion. There is no Lion available on disc. And since SL the US$29 for the upgrade is essentially free.

B

 

[chrismacguy]

I get what you're saying and it makes sense. So the Apple-brand is still intact if you keep the original motherboard, but if you use a different motherboard, its no longer Apple brand?
The problem I have with the Apple brand restriction is that no parts is Apple specific. Everybody gets their parts from the same OEMs.

Actually the backplane/motherboards are unique to each Mac. They aren't parts that are generally available. Even the Mac Pro motherboard (which is basically an Intel one), has a few modifications. And many of them, such as the Mac Mini, are not available from anywhere else in a form remotely close, and quite a few of them include bespoke chip designs/ chip designs only Apple has, as they've commissioned them from Intel/ATI/nVidia or created them internally (e.g. the MacBook Airs logicboard for example, but it applies across the range)

Also, the EULA is available before you open the box on the web, and its printed on the box. Thats certainly enough to make it enforceable in the UK. It should also be noted that Lion is available on a disc, in the form of a USB Drive from Apple Retail Stores. I know, because I own one. However, the EULA is still available before you open the Lion disk package, and its printed on a slip of paper given to you on purchasing the thumb drive. (Again, enough to meet the letting you review it before you open it requirement).

 

[Judas1]

Can they legally restrict MacOS to Apple-brand computers only when you paid for the software, and it can run perfectly fine on a non-Apple-brand hardware compliant computer? Because you will be using the OS as it is intended to be used, but would prefer not to use their hardware.

 

[MacHamster68]

Can they legally restrict MacOS to Apple-brand computers only when you paid for the software, and it can run perfectly fine on a non-Apple-brand hardware compliant computer? Because you will be using the OS as it is intended to be used, but would prefer not to use their hardware.

YES in the USA its possible , because there if you buy the disc you dont get the right to use it to your liking
in the rest of the world you buy something and its up to you what you do with it .
i mean you can buy a bread knife and use it to cut meat or? only in the USA you could enforce a law that prohibits that

See OSX as a engine as its the OS that makes a computer a computer , i can go to a BMW dealer buy a engine and fit it in a Audi or in a kit car if i like , might be complicated , but thats not the point, the point is BMW does not say you are only allowed to fit their engines in their cars, they dont even restrict on the type of BMW you fit their engines..its up to you if you can squeeze a 12 cylinder BMW engine in a BMW Isetta.

 

[balamw]

you paid for the software

This is the fundamental flaw in your argument. In the US at least you can't buy the software, you purchase a license to use the software (given certain restrictions). The media it comes on (if any) is yours, but the bits on it are owned (essentially, Thanks Mickey Mouse!) in perpetuity by the copyright holder.

Think of it this way: You buy a copy of the latest "Twilight" book? Are you then free to read a page a day and repost it verbatim to your blog? You own the book, right? You are free to do with it what you want, right?

Another scenario. Academic/Non-commercial licenses. You purchase a license of Office 2011 Home and Student. That works just fine on your Mac, but you are using it in a business setting when the license explicitly doesn't give you those rights. Is this OK? http://www.amazon.com/Office-Mac-Home-Student-2011/dp/B003YCOJA8

Licensed for home and student use on 1 (one) Mac; not for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue generating business activities, or by any government organization.

B

 

[jimglidewell]

Personally, I would not trust a business that was running on a "hackintosh." I would figure that if they're dishonest in this respect, chances are that they would be dishonest in other respects as well.

This is pretty much my impression as well - even if a Hackintosh in indeed legal in that jurisdiction, there will be clients who assume it isn't. And I can think of no better way to advertise the fact that your company is operating on a shoestring.

If I encountered a business that was prominently using Hackintoshs, I would politely and quietly leave, saying I'd need to think about using your services. I would then think about it for ten seconds and decide your company was too sketchy to bother with.

 

[MacHamster68]

This is the fundamental flaw in your argument. In the US at least you can't buy the software, you purchase a license to use the software (given certain restrictions). The media it comes on (if any) is yours, but the bits on it are owned (essentially, Thanks Mickey Mouse!) in perpetuity by the copyright holder.

Think of it this way: You buy a copy of the latest "Twilight" book? Are you then free to read a page a day and repost it verbatim to your blog? You own the book, right? You are free to do with it what you want, right?

Another scenario. Academic/Non-commercial licenses. You purchase a license of Office 2011 Home and Student. That works just fine on your Mac, but you are using it in a business setting when the license explicitly doesn't give you those rights. Is this OK? http://www.amazon.com/Office-Mac-Home-Student-2011/dp/B003YCOJA8



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and i said it before, the fundamental flaw in your argument is you cannot read and agree to the lisence before you bought the disc in the shop , that you can read the lisence online before you buy does not count in the rest of the world as nobody who sells in a shop can make you read lisences online before you buy
with OFFICE its different it says it in big letters HOME and Student so you are made aware of it in big letters on the snow leopard disc it only says intel only in very small print on the back that some cant even read with glasses on

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This is pretty much my impression as well - even if a Hackintosh in indeed legal in that jurisdiction, there will be clients who assume it isn't. And I can think of no better way to advertise the fact that your company is operating on a shoestring.

If I encountered a business that was prominently using Hackintoshs, I would politely and quietly leave, saying I'd need to think about using your services. I would then think about it for ten seconds and decide your company was too sketchy to bother with.

dont know where you live , but here if a customer comes and sees a Mac in your business they even think "ah thats where my money goes to .. a overpriced fancy computer "
a reason why Dell and HP are so successful selling to businesses in the UK

even people who come to my business and see my PowerMac G5 ask me how i can have so competitive low prices and buy such expensive computers , always remember here in the UK or in Europe we pay a lot more for our Mac's compared to US prices
example you pay $ 1199 for a base iMac that are £ 775 we pay £999 , i'm not so good in calculating but that are £224 or in $ 346 more and it doesnt make a difference how it comes to that difference(taxes and such), but everyone here even children know Mac's are expensive and a luxury




and a another word , i often did ask for a Mac in between the mini and the Macpro ,that is upgradeable and servicable like the MacPro and not a userunfriendly (quiet a few iMac that got killed in the attempt to upgrade the harddrive)ALL in ONE system , and PearC is offering that , Apple not


but Apple took measures and Lion is only availabe in the app store online , that will kill of competition until snow leopard is not supported any more , which will happen very soon , latest 2013 is my optimistic guess we will see the last update of Snow Leopard

 

[snorkelman]

forget the EULA and whether you can read it in advance or not, in the UK you have Copyright and Related Rights Regulations 2003 to deal with, and in the EU as a whole you'ld have Directive 2001/29/EC, which C3R 2003 is based on.

End result of that is the process of getting OSX to work on a non Apple machine (i.e. use of Chameleon etc) would likely be regarded as having circumvented the technical restrictions Apple have put in place to protect their work.

In a home environment no ones really going to care what you do, but in a business setting as per original point of this thread, it would be worse than pointless.

 

[VPrime]

I ran one for 2+ years for my business (early days I used leopard on the wrong hardware nad had issues).
Once you chose the right hardware it is quite reliable and hassle free.
Except for one thing. In the back of your mind you always have that "what if" feeling.
"what if apple release an update that causes everything to no longer work". Because of this you usually have be a bit more cautious with updates. Either wait until others have done them, or do major backups incase of drastic failure.

Never did I run into that issue (with 10.6 --- 10.6.8 every single update along the way). But every time I had that thought linger in the back of my head.

I now run an i7 iMac, and feel zero difference in the behaviour of the system (other then the more ram, better screen, and better cpu)

 

[Judas1]

EULAs are meant to protect copyrighted materials. EULAs are not meant to to promote a company's product that has nothing to do with the copyrighted materials. Apple is promoting their hardware brand, when in fact you can use their software as intended while upholding their copyright rights without use of their hardware brand. But the US licensing laws make no sense to me. It seems like you can make any licencing rules you want.

edit:*RANT*
I am also pretty sure Apple modifies their motherboard so they can limit what hardware their OS can install on. Its definitely not to add functionality.

 

[weckart]

For Apples EULA i go with the German company Pear C
Article from 2009 and so far they still build hackintoshs legally in Germany

According to Ars Technica, the PearC (Apples, pears, geddit?) actually packs
they got bought by a company called F.A.U.S.T in 2011 ,who want to invest further into PearC to become second after Apple in therms of marketshare (thats no problem and they dont fit cheap parts inside only the best is good enough )and want to overtake Apple in terms of Quality and Service (not hard they offer as standard 2 years warranty on all components without extra cost) and they produce in Germany not in China and still beat Apple in price
https://www.pearc.de/

Not impressed with their offerings, to be quite honest. While PearPC does offer the option of an upgradable tower, the hardware is outdated and the prices rival Apple's - €120 to upgrade from a 1TB to a 2TB hard drive? Really? Further signs of a lack of polish include Bluetooth via usb dongle, rather than the simple internal mod that allows you to wake from sleep with Bluetooth peripherals. Factor in the €150 surcharge for noise dampening and you might as well buy from Apple.

 

[MacHamster68]

Not impressed with their offerings, to be quite honest. While PearPC does offer the option of an upgradable tower, the hardware is outdated and the prices rival Apple's - €120 to upgrade from a 1TB to a 2TB hard drive? Really? Further signs of a lack of polish include Bluetooth via usb dongle, rather than the simple internal mod that allows you to wake from sleep with Bluetooth peripherals. Factor in the €150 surcharge for noise dampening and you might as well buy from Apple.

Apple is charging €150 for the same HDD upgrade and you definitely get a Samsung or WD from PearC , sorry my lack of mathematical skills , but if i remember right €150 is more then €120 ...or have they changed that recently

for the outdated hardware ...hmm to my knowledge even Apple still uses those nehalems and is seriously offering them in their base MacPro and charge a exorbitant price for them
so core i7 950 as thats what you get in the professional PearC base model might be outdated ,but they offer it for pretty much exact €1000 under Apples offering of the MacPro with the nehalem processor
For €120 you can upgrade to a westmere at PearC , ok you only get a quad core , Apple offers you to upgrade the nehalem to a six core westmere , but is charging €1080 more for those 2 extra cores !
You dont seriously want to explain me now that €1200 is less then €120 or

You always have to remember the PearC's are build in Germany by fully trained Staff who get proper wages so they too need to make a bit profit to pay those wages , after all PearC is not a Billion dollar corporation , not even a million dollar corporation and they offer a 2 year warranty as standard instead of only 1 year and after 90 days Apple stops the phone support so you need to bring your Mac to the Apple store if you come across a problem ,and some live quiet a distance from the nearest one .

Sorry i think from another perspective PearC is creating Jobs in Germany and Spain and Portugal (distributors) , to produce their computers , not in China like Apple and the rest
I even go as far as : Apple should be proud that another company thinks OSX is worth to put on a PC made in Germany and give them official permission to use OSX

Apple is fighting 1 of those Mac clone makers and 5 more are popping up as a result , join them if you cant beat them , Apple could even get some Royalties , or make a Joint Venture ... Pears and Apples ...after all PearC offers what Apple doesnt , a computer that runs OSX in between the Mini and the MacPro that isn't a AIO system and they dont use cheap parts to build them
and Apple does not even offer a soundproofing kit for their MacPro

 

[balamw]

EULAs are meant to protect copyrighted materials.

You've got that backwards. Copyright protection is inherent. The EULA is what lets the end user actually use the software, allowing them copying it during install.

Even GPL software is covered by these rules, except there, the restriction imposed by the copyright holders is that derivative works must also be distributed under the GPL.

Without an EULA, the mere act of installing software would be a copyright violation.

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