Wow, and I thought Windows is normally bad!

[ravenvii]

Wow. Just... wow.

Let me tell you a little background.

The last "general-brand PC that comes preloaded with Windows" I had was sometime in 1995-96 when I had a 150 MHz Compaq with Windows 95. After that, I got a Falcon Northwest with Windows 98 - they make hobbyist machines and ship Windows with minimal software, and a real Windows 98 OEM CD - not the prepackaged "system restore" CD/DVD machines normally comes with.

After that, I built my own machines, and of course along came the Intel Macs, where I install Windows myself.

So I was clueless to what was going on with the "general-brand" computers, as I've technically never opened and started up a general-brand PC from scratch since that Compaq back more than a decade ago.

Yesterday, for Christmas, I got a Lenovo IdeaPad S10. Awesome-looking machine.

And then I turned it on.

First came the usual Windows XP information-gathering screens. I've gone through those a dozen of times, except this time it has a license agreement (that I never encountered before because I've agreed to it during the install). All normal, good stuff.

But then when I got to the desktop... Norton Internet Security pops up with a huge window telling me to turn it on and stuff. It was so big I can barely hit the "next" button on the bottom of the screen.

I know what a colossal piece of **** anything with "Norton" on it is. So I ain't gonna do what it wants. But guess what? There's only the "next" button! No "cancel" button! And I can't even hit the X to close it! Literally the only way to "opt out" of that **** is to call up the task manager and end that task!

Jesus H. Christ!

With Norton gone and uninstalled (along with Symantec LiveUpdate), I started up Internet Explorer to go and download Firefox. And what did I get? I was brought to some Lenovo-spsonsored Windows Live Search page, and the Windows Live Toolbar was literally forced on me. It didn't even ask me if I want it installed, there's just this dialog asking me if I want to participate in a call-home program, and if I want the default engine changed, and a "finish" button. No "Do you want to install the Windows Live Toolbar" or anything like that. It just installs, and too bad if I didn't want that crap in the first place. The only choice for me is to click "finish", then go and uninstall the plug-in.

I've never encountered this crap with my countless installs of Windows XP.

I mean, seriously, what the ****? How do you people with your Dells and HPs and Lenovos put up with this crap?

And I thought Windows sucks. Now I truly see the light, Windows might suck, but most of it's suckiness in people's eyes are actually not the fault of Microsoft, but of the PC builders.

 

[iParis]

That's a general brand PC for you.
I know how you feel.
Yesterday I got an eMachine.
It's running a lot faster than I thought; but that's probably because my old PC was slow as ****.
What I always do when I get a new computer is first run the task manager and shut down anything that is needlessly taking up ram, then I got to Programs and Features, well on XP it's Add or Remove Programs and I uninstall all that bull crap software it came with.

 

[Nermal]

I know what you mean. When I got my HP Mini-Note, the first thing I did was format it. It was my first non-Apple computer that I hadn't built myself, but I was still prepared for the worst after helping a friend with a Dell a couple of years ago.

The Dell was awful. The first thing I noticed was the ball mouse (ie. not optical), and this would've been in 2006! I didn't even know that they still made them. After connecting it all up and turning it on, I wondered why the Internet was so slow.

The problem was due to automatic updates. Windows Update was pre-enabled and was trying to download hundreds of megabytes over dialup. Dell also had some sort of auto updater that was also trying to download things. After disabling those two I could still see data being transferred, and the task manager indicated a Norton updater process. Try as I might, I could not find any way to disable or even pause that update.

I can see that Dell would want people to install updates to reduce calls to the support desk, but to do it without asking - and to assume that everyone is on broadband - really made the "out of the box experience" horrendous.

 

[iParis]

I know what you mean. When I got my HP Mini-Note, the first thing I did was format it. It was my first non-Apple computer that I hadn't built myself, but I was still prepared for the worst after helping a friend with a Dell a couple of years ago.

The Dell was awful. The first thing I noticed was the ball mouse (ie. not optical), and this would've been in 2006! I didn't even know that they still made them. After connecting it all up and turning it on, I wondered why the Internet was so slow.

The problem was due to automatic updates. Windows Update was pre-enabled and was trying to download hundreds of megabytes over dialup. Dell also had some sort of auto updater that was also trying to download things. After disabling those two I could still see data being transferred, and the task manager indicated a Norton updater process. Try as I might, I could not find any way to disable or even pause that update.

I can see that Dell would want people to install updates to reduce calls to the support desk, but to do it without asking - and to assume that everyone is on broadband - really made the "out of the box experience" horrendous.

Actually, most Dells still have that ball mouse
The eMachine I got came with a PS/2 ball mouse!
I didn't even know PS/2 mice and keyboards were still produced.
Good thing I also got an Apple Mighty Mouse and Keyboad for Christmas.

PC's, especially Dell and HP, are infamous for automatic updates.
And DIAL UP?! Holy crap! That is so old.

 

[Nermal]

And DIAL UP?! Holy crap! That is so old.

Well, to be fair, that's the fault of the broadband companies here for not offering a "casual rate". Many of the people that I know that still use dialup don't use it much and typically pay something like $1 per hour for a total of maybe $10 per month. None of the broadband providers offer anything that cheap, and I think all of them charge a monthly fee regardless of whether you use the connection or not.

 

[CWallace]

One of the contributing reasons to Wintel machines being cheaper is because of all the "bundling" deals that those companies make with software companies to package their products and pay for the privilege. This can knock down the price of the machine by scores, even hundreds of dollars depending on how much is pre-installed.

A number of companies (like Sony) will now just ship the machine with Windows-only on it, but they do charge a fee (I believe it's $50-100 for Sony) for the service to reflect the loss of "sponsor income" on the box.

 

[sharp65]

I always do a clean install when I get a new PC, you will get much better performance.

 

[yg17]

I mean, seriously, what the ****? How do you people with your Dells and HPs and Lenovos put up with this crap?

Ubuntu Linux

That was the first thing I did after I got my Dell Inspirion.

 

[TSE]

Windows Vista and XP aren't too bad --- if you know the ways of taking care of them. On Windows Vista Home Premium on my MacBook Pro, I took off all the Aero stuff, turned off Dashboard or whatever, and set the UI to Windows Classic UI and it runs just as fast as my friend's MacBook Pro with Windows XP.

As long as you know what antivirus programs to use, and what cleanup tools to use, Windows is fine. Is it better than Mac OS X? Hell no! But I don't mind using it.

 

[Tosser]

I mean, seriously, what the ****? How do you people with your Dells and HPs and Lenovos put up with this crap?

We don't. Just like I don't put up with all the crap I get from Apple. Read this:

I always do a clean install when I get a new PC, you will get much better performance.

Exactly. You get a lot of crap with OS X as well unless you do a clean install yourself before using it.

It has naught to do with "windows" but everything to do with it being an oem-installation.

 

[sharp65]

The only issue is PC makers make it hard to do a clean install yourself. They rarely give you OS disks anymore, the disks they do give you if any are recovery disks that will just put all of their software back on to it. You will need to borrow a disk from someone else.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

Exactly. You get a lot of crap with OS X as well unless you do a clean install yourself before using it.

Not really, its nothing compared to a branded PC. What do you get in OS X? 50 language packs and some fonts you don't need? You don't even need to do a clean install to get rid of those. On a PC you get more pre-installed crap than ever imaginable. All kinds of MSN junk, internet search bars, crappy trial versions of tons of programs, crappy antivirus, etc. At least the stuff that is prepackaged with an Apple is actually useful, even if only to people who speak Swahili. Macs run fine without a clean install, on some PCs it takes minutes to boot out of the box because of all the crap on them.

 

[Tosser]

Not really, its nothing compared to a branded PC. What do you get in OS X? 50 language packs and some fonts you don't need? You don't even need to do a clean install to get rid of those. On a PC you get more pre-installed crap than ever imaginable. All kinds of MSN junk, internet search bars, crappy trial versions of tons of programs, crappy antivirus, etc. At least the stuff that is prepackaged with an Apple is actually useful, even if only to people who speak Swahili. Macs run fine without a clean install, on some PCs it takes minutes to boot out of the box because of all the crap on them.

What I get is all sorts of trial versions and nags to register plus plenty of apps and libraries that take up many gigs of space. That's what you get unless you do your own installation and untick most or all of them.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

What I get is all sorts of trial versions and nags to register plus plenty of apps and libraries that take up many gigs of space. That's what you get unless you do your own installation and untick most or all of them.

What trial versions did you get? I have never received a trial version of anything on an Apple. I've also never gotten a nag to register on anything prepackaged with an Apple; all the games and extra non-Apple software have all been full versions on the 3 Apples I've purchased recently.

Most of the libraries are easily removable without a new install, I used free software to remove the languages, printers, and fonts I didn't want, saving a few gigs in the process.

Its fine to do a new install on an Apple, but its unnecessary, an Apple will run great without it, most PCs I've had, however, ran like crap without a clean install. Either way, clean installs are easier to do on an Apple, I hate reinstalling on my XP computers, but I pretty much do it every few months since they slow down significantly pretty quickly.

I guess my point is that, sure, on Apple machines there are libraries and such that take up HD space, but the machine still runs perfectly. On quite a few name brand PCs there are so many crappy applications, poorly designed trial versions, crappy AV software, etc, that they often don't run well out of the box and a clean install is absolutely necessary (IMO this should never be the case, if I spend upwards of $1000 on something it should work well without me having to do much of anything to get it to that point).

 

[Nermal]

What trial versions did you get? I have never received a trial version of anything on an Apple.

I've had iWork and Microsoft Office trials on mine.

 

[Mr Skills]

I've had iWork and Microsoft Office trials on mine.

But they are only taking up space - they do not force themselves on you, they do not affect the boot time, and as there is no registry they have no impact on performance. If you did not see their icons in the application folder you would never know they were even there.

 

[munkery]

The only issue is PC makers make it hard to do a clean install yourself. They rarely give you OS disks anymore, the disks they do give you if any are recovery disks that will just put all of their software back on to it. You will need to borrow a disk from someone else.

If your machine comes with a serial number for a version of windows, it is not illegal to download that version of windows (ie vista home basic or vista home premium) from the net and install as long as you activate it with your serial number. But, it is difficult to find non-oem (clean retail) versions of windows OSes available for download.

Ubuntu Linux

I agree, this is a much better solution.

 

[ravenvii]

Ubuntu Linux

That was the first thing I did after I got my Dell Inspirion.

Funny how you just say Ubuntu and think that solves everything.

Sure, Ubuntu is nice and all, but I know that with the wireless card in my Lenovo, Ubuntu can only join open networks. No WEP, and WPA? Forgetaboutit.

I so happen to need WPA to access wireless networks, both at home and at school.

And no, an ethernet cable isn't an option, I got this netbook for portability for chrissakes.

And to all you saying "clean install dummy!" what is the grade level of your reading comprehension skills? Just wondering.

 

[Tosser]

And to all you saying "clean install dummy!" what is the grade level of your reading comprehension skills? Just wondering.

On the other hand, "someone" here seems to be more than willing to suffer through OEM-installs only so they can bitch about it.

 

[ravenvii]

On the other hand, "someone" here seems to be more than willing to suffer through OEM-installs only so they can bitch about it.

You, too, have reading comprehension issues.

Did you see where I said Lenovo didn't come with any CDs for a clean install? And furthermore, did you note that I have a Lenovo IdeaPad S10, a netbook? Are you aware that netbooks generally do not have optical drives?

And what's more, I was bitching about the out-of-box experience, and how many people, exactly, do you know who knows how to 1) "obtain" a Windows install, 2) knows how to do a clean install other than from a restore disc, and on the side for netbooks specifically, 3) knows how to get around the no-optical-drive issue?

Not many, I'm guessing. So those people, who don't know how to do any of those things, hell don't even know those clean installs exist, put up with this crap.

I think I see a reading comprehension course in the local community college. It's cheap and will do you wonders, methinks.

 

[sharp65]

Funny how you just say Ubuntu and think that solves everything.

Sure, Ubuntu is nice and all, but I know that with the wireless card in my Lenovo, Ubuntu can only join open networks. No WEP, and WPA? Forgetaboutit.

I so happen to need WPA to access wireless networks, both at home and at school.

And no, an ethernet cable isn't an option, I got this netbook for portability for chrissakes.

And to all you saying "clean install dummy!" what is the grade level of your reading comprehension skills? Just wondering.

When's the last time you tried ubuntu? The latest version can indeed join protected networks, I used it all the time to connect to my schools WPA enterprise network.

 

[ravenvii]

When's the last time you tried ubuntu? The latest version can indeed join protected networks, I used it all the time to connect to my schools WPA enterprise network.

I haven't tried it myself, but I've read experience with this specific netbook on the Ubuntu forums.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=943030&Lenovo+S10

This is the thread I got my information from. But looking at the dates, it seems the problem was with Hardy, and they've fixed it with Intrepid.

Sweet, I'm going to go try that. Hope the install fits a 256 MB pen drive...

 

[Tosser]

You, too, have reading comprehension issues.

Did you see where I said Lenovo didn't come with any CDs for a clean install? And furthermore, did you note that I have a Lenovo IdeaPad S10, a netbook? Are you aware that netbooks generally do not have optical drives?

And what's more, I was bitching about the out-of-box experience, and how many people, exactly, do you know who knows how to 1) "obtain" a Windows install, 2) knows how to do a clean install other than from a restore disc, and on the side for netbooks specifically, 3) knows how to get around the no-optical-drive issue?

Not many, I'm guessing. So those people, who don't know how to do any of those things, hell don't even know those clean installs exist, put up with this crap.

I think I see a reading comprehension course in the local community college. It's cheap and will do you wonders, methinks.

I see. So because we don't buy all your premises we must need a reading comprehension class. That's excellent. Perhaps you shoudl take your own advice and go partake in Logic 101.

 

[ravenvii]

I see. So because we don't buy all your premises we must need a reading comprehension class. That's excellent. Perhaps you shoudl take your own advice and go partake in Logic 101.

Maybe I didn't buy your premises or conclusions?

My heart! I think I missed a beat or two!

 

[yoyo5280]

Wow. Just... wow.

Let me tell you a little background.

The last "general-brand PC that comes preloaded with Windows" I had was sometime in 1995-96 when I had a 150 MHz Compaq with Windows 95. After that, I got a Falcon Northwest with Windows 98 - they make hobbyist machines and ship Windows with minimal software, and a real Windows 98 OEM CD - not the prepackaged "system restore" CD/DVD machines normally comes with.

After that, I built my own machines, and of course along came the Intel Macs, where I install Windows myself.

So I was clueless to what was going on with the "general-brand" computers, as I've technically never opened and started up a general-brand PC from scratch since that Compaq back more than a decade ago.

Yesterday, for Christmas, I got a Lenovo IdeaPad S10. Awesome-looking machine.

And then I turned it on.

First came the usual Windows XP information-gathering screens. I've gone through those a dozen of times, except this time it has a license agreement (that I never encountered before because I've agreed to it during the install). All normal, good stuff.

But then when I got to the desktop... Norton Internet Security pops up with a huge window telling me to turn it on and stuff. It was so big I can barely hit the "next" button on the bottom of the screen.

I know what a colossal piece of **** anything with "Norton" on it is. So I ain't gonna do what it wants. But guess what? There's only the "next" button! No "cancel" button! And I can't even hit the X to close it! Literally the only way to "opt out" of that **** is to call up the task manager and end that task!

Jesus H. Christ!

With Norton gone and uninstalled (along with Symantec LiveUpdate), I started up Internet Explorer to go and download Firefox. And what did I get? I was brought to some Lenovo-spsonsored Windows Live Search page, and the Windows Live Toolbar was literally forced on me. It didn't even ask me if I want it installed, there's just this dialog asking me if I want to participate in a call-home program, and if I want the default engine changed, and a "finish" button. No "Do you want to install the Windows Live Toolbar" or anything like that. It just installs, and too bad if I didn't want that crap in the first place. The only choice for me is to click "finish", then go and uninstall the plug-in.

I've never encountered this crap with my countless installs of Windows XP.

I mean, seriously, what the ****? How do you people with your Dells and HPs and Lenovos put up with this crap?

And I thought Windows sucks. Now I truly see the light, Windows might suck, but most of it's suckiness in people's eyes are actually not the fault of Microsoft, but of the PC builders.

Didn't apple make an add about this? Bloated

Ya, try getting a sony. They are terrible!