There is a version of Ubuntu optimized for netbooks, if you are interested.
Reading comprehension? At what point in the thread did anybody state, "clean install dummy!"
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Wow, and I thought Windows is normally bad!
- Thread starter ravenvii
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
There is a version of Ubuntu optimized for netbooks, if you are interested.
Reading comprehension? At what point in the thread did anybody state, "clean install dummy!"
Yeah, just read about the Remix. I'll give that one a try.
I was paraphrasing those guys.
Two things -
1. You didn't post a link after "read this"
2. The stuff that you get with OS X is not crap. Unless you consider productivity producing, creativity inducing, "easy-as-all-get-out to use" programs crap.
Make that three.
3. There is no crap in OS X.
"All sorts" - I think not. Unless it is "all sorts" of crap you download. Yes, there are crap programs out there for Mac. But they aren't made by apple and certainly aren't preinstalled.
The piles of stuff on my 2007 HP Vista machine was misleading.
When it started up, it displayed this weird advert-heavy setup environment. Had a hard time popping out of it. It tried to sign me to a different ISP instead of accepting my current one. Then I discovered something else.
Seems all my programs were registered to my shortened version of my name, mainly "xyzzzz" (this is just the format I used), and claimed Hewlett Packard as the company I worked for. Had to go into the Registry to erase the company name from all those programs ...
All new programs after that date recognized me properly and stopped claiming HP as my place of business.
When it started up, it displayed this weird advert-heavy setup environment. Had a hard time popping out of it. It tried to sign me to a different ISP instead of accepting my current one. Then I discovered something else.
Seems all my programs were registered to my shortened version of my name, mainly "xyzzzz" (this is just the format I used), and claimed Hewlett Packard as the company I worked for. Had to go into the Registry to erase the company name from all those programs ...
All new programs after that date recognized me properly and stopped claiming HP as my place of business.
1) I posted a quote from another bloke I wanted you to read.
2) I like mail (to an extend), addressbook and some other apps, but don't tell me that Office Trials from MS, Garageband with huge libraries, iMovie with the same, and iTunes as a vessel to shove iTunes Store in your door is something I have to like.
I like productivity. Not bloat and thinly veiled advertisement bloat.
Make that three.
3. There is no crap in OS X.
Spoken like a true blinded fanboy.
See above.
Crap is pretty subjective, many, probably even the majority, of people that buy Apple computers enjoy those programs and some even buy Apples because of those programs. iTunes doesn't really have ads, sure there is a box to click for the store, but so what? Its hardly noticeable and the program is pretty super for managing music.
And just for your info, the iMovie library is like 200mb. Garageband is large because of the instruments loops, additionally iDVD is large because of the themes, but they're hardly unmanageable or even noticeable if you have a large hard drive.
I'd really like to know what you find to be more productive that iLife for an average user. Sure, Lightroom, Creative Suite, Dreamweaver, Final Cut, Logic, etc would be nice, but most people don't have a few grand to drop and a few months (or years really) to learn the basics of all the programs. iLife pretty much rocks for doing all the tasks a normal user would demand.
Sure, does an iWork trial being pre-installed suck? Yeah, but you definitely don't need to do a clean install to delete it. Throw it in the trash, find the library file (pretty easy to do) and throw it away, empty the trash. Most of the program is gone. Try doing that on a PC, you'll still find traces of that program two years from when you bought the machine, it might even download and reinstall itself on reboot.
PC=necessary clean install
Apple=plug-in, throw a few things away, and use.
Ever part of your post is soooooo true, but I just wanted to point out that the avarage user won't even notice iWork trail on their system (I bet)
Its unobtrusive and doesn't force itself upon you, so i'm sure most mac users don't even delete it.
And Tosser, apple advertises iLife coming with macs. People know what they are up for. I have never seen vaio music videos, and dell this and bla bla that advertised on P.C.s
Seriously? Have you been to pretty much any store that sells electronics lately? Hell, they still make 3 1/2 floppies for godness sake! PS/2 is going to be around for years to come, Apple Is just ahead of the competition as far as interface ports go, and they always have been.
Sorry for the rant, I just can't understand how you could think ball mice and ps/2 devices aren't still around...
cassie you just use old machines
and hey thats cool, i really want some old macs
here though they sell the floppys and ball mice, but they are seriously being fased out.
I appreciate OSX far more, now that I have a work laptop running Vista Home something.............
I just don't see the need for so many "tiers", in an operating system. My kid's iMac, came with only 1GB of RAM and runs wonderfully. When my Acer showed up with the same amount, it was an instant slug. I had to scream at IT for another 1 gig stick, just so I didn't have to turn off every single feature.........
I just don't see the need for so many "tiers", in an operating system. My kid's iMac, came with only 1GB of RAM and runs wonderfully. When my Acer showed up with the same amount, it was an instant slug. I had to scream at IT for another 1 gig stick, just so I didn't have to turn off every single feature.........
Yes, just like "the majority" wants to have an antivirus app as the one the OP bitches about.
No, iTunes doesn't have ads – I said "iTunes is a vessel used to advertise for the Store". This is the very reason I am back at iTunes 7.7.1 and not 8.x.x.
iTunes interface itself have become bloated, slow and Store-centric. I really don't like it for those reasons anymore. But again, I assume your "come back" will be something along the line of "Most people like it".
What a load of apologetic nonsense. No, of course bloat is hardly noticeable if your hard drive is large enough. Any more banalities you'd like to share?
I don't care that the reason iDVD and garage band are that large is because of many loops. As I said: "The libraries" are huge, and since I have no use for such an app (I use proper audio apps, thank you), I consider them nothing but bloat.
I'd really like to know a) howcome you consider antivirus to be bloat, and b) what gave you the idea that I talked on behalf of "the majority"?
Ah, yes – yet another plea to popularity. How about the user simply was given a choice when he/she opens the computer the first time? You know, the very lack of choice you guys bitched about. But as usual, double standards: It sucks when it's windows, but excellent when the same thing happens on a Mac.
What's the difference between this situation where you are all apologetic and the bitching done by the OP about having to remove a simple plugin? See above for the reason.
Hmm, you must be doing something wrong.
Nothing like painting a pretty picture is there?
Ah, yes. And funnily enough, Apple touts firewire on their website, AND they ship iLife with MacBooks, but as far as I'm informed, iMovie does STILL not support import via USB – only firewire. Sure that tells the buyers what they're in for
It really doesn't matter what Apple advertises – since when was an advertisement truthful. Besides, I have never seen an Apple ad here in Denmark.
But anyway, what's your point? That because Apple touts certain things in their adverts, none other than them makes anything to compete or even better? Is it possible to be a bigger victim for propaganda?
the way i see it, is the major problem with PC trialware/bloatware/crapware (whatever you like to call it), and the difference between that and Mac trialware is that -
- almost every piece of trialware wants to (usually) install a useless/unnecessary icon in your system tray.
- they (again usually) want to install themeselves into your startup items, and often you need to run MSCONFIG.EXE to manually remove them (these startup items are usually to load the unnecessary system tray icon.) this is most often a huge waste of resources, not to mention the obscure way the MSCONFIG item is named (you have to google 70% of the stuff just to work out what it belongs to!)
- much of this PC trialware results in registration popups, and may try to "encourage" you to purchase/upgrade software (this often happens without user initiation, as opposed to trialware where you are asked to buy upon load/quit of the app.)
i've used PC's for 20 years, and Mac's for 10. the only trialware that i've ever seen on a Mac is iWork, comiclife, and MS Office Trials. i don't believe in labeling Garageband, iTunes, iPhoto, iWeb, Safari, etc as "bloatware", as often Windows tries to provide a similar bundled app, and that most "average users" want these apps on their systems.
the "out of the box" experience for a computer user who might not be as computer literate as people posting on MacRumors, i believe, is much greater on a Mac (when you compare a Dell/Acer/etc to an Apple.)
of course for people who are experienced with computers, the removal of trialware on either platform OSX or Windows, is a fairly easy process (although one I believe takes me longer on a PC, and often removing Mac trialware is vastly easier.) and let's face it, if you really are a pro PC/Mac user, you are most likely going to to a full reinstall with your preferred options/setup upon purchase anyway.
- almost every piece of trialware wants to (usually) install a useless/unnecessary icon in your system tray.
- they (again usually) want to install themeselves into your startup items, and often you need to run MSCONFIG.EXE to manually remove them (these startup items are usually to load the unnecessary system tray icon.) this is most often a huge waste of resources, not to mention the obscure way the MSCONFIG item is named (you have to google 70% of the stuff just to work out what it belongs to!)
- much of this PC trialware results in registration popups, and may try to "encourage" you to purchase/upgrade software (this often happens without user initiation, as opposed to trialware where you are asked to buy upon load/quit of the app.)
i've used PC's for 20 years, and Mac's for 10. the only trialware that i've ever seen on a Mac is iWork, comiclife, and MS Office Trials. i don't believe in labeling Garageband, iTunes, iPhoto, iWeb, Safari, etc as "bloatware", as often Windows tries to provide a similar bundled app, and that most "average users" want these apps on their systems.
the "out of the box" experience for a computer user who might not be as computer literate as people posting on MacRumors, i believe, is much greater on a Mac (when you compare a Dell/Acer/etc to an Apple.)
of course for people who are experienced with computers, the removal of trialware on either platform OSX or Windows, is a fairly easy process (although one I believe takes me longer on a PC, and often removing Mac trialware is vastly easier.) and let's face it, if you really are a pro PC/Mac user, you are most likely going to to a full reinstall with your preferred options/setup upon purchase anyway.
Umm, I used PC's for 10 years of my life. (I'm only 23.) IF I am a blinded fanboy, it is because I was blinded by years of crapware on PC's that I can't even notice any of it in OS X.
At least Macs don't have all that crapware antivirus trash trying to force themselves on you.
Thank you, ravenvii, for reminding me why I switched!
I was amazed after I installed Windows through Boot Camp and it wasn't cluttered by a ton of crapware. If you're going to buy a PC your best option is to just buy a full copy of the OS and install it fresh, which sucks because you're basically buying the one OS twice.
I was amazed after I installed Windows through Boot Camp and it wasn't cluttered by a ton of crapware. If you're going to buy a PC your best option is to just buy a full copy of the OS and install it fresh, which sucks because you're basically buying the one OS twice.
Thank you, ravenvii, for reminding me why I switched!
I was amazed after I installed Windows through Boot Camp and it wasn't cluttered by a ton of crapware. If you're going to buy a PC your best option is to just buy a full copy of the OS and install it fresh, which sucks because you're basically buying the one OS twice.
why wouldn't you just "borrow" the full OS disk (download it?) and use your vaild/supplied key? don't buy it twice! (it's what I have done in the past.)
Slow, what are you running, a G3 Powerbook? Give me a break, I've used the newest version of iTunes with music and video libraries well over 80gb and it was just as fast as any other program on the market.
Thats great, I'm glad you use proper audio apps, but stating that a program, which is fully functional and quite productive, is bloat, is nonsense.
Spoken like someone that has never run Norton. You think iMovie is bloat? Does iMovie slow your computer down? Does it take minutes for your internet browser to open with iLife installed? No? Well try running Norton on a moderate PC, then you'll know what bloat is.
I'd be fine with a box being there, in fact it would be an excellent addition but who cares when the programs are easy to get rid of and don't affect the performance of your computer? Thats the difference. It seems like you've never opened a Sony Viao thats supposed to run at about the same speed as the Macbook and had it take minutes to boot and lag like mad when trying to open the simple applications. Thats bloat, those programs, the ones that Sony, Compaq, et al, put on that have extremely little function and slow your machine down extremely. Thats bloat. iLife doesn't slow your machine down, doesn't automatically open at startup (doesn't increase your boot time), and can actually be used to accomplish a task or provide entertainment; thats a pretty big difference from most of the crap pre-installed on a PC.
I have no problem with Windows, I run it via bootcamp, the problem, as has been mentioned before, is with the manufacturers. Windows itself, if I recall correctly, came with only one or two trials at the time of purchase, similar to newer OS X machines, with the iWork and Office trials.
Yeah, all he complained about was removing some plugin, not that the IE automatically forced him to install it when he logged into the browser. Ever seen Safari force you to install something on startup? Doesn't happen. And he didn't mention a thing about that POS Norton being installed on his computer, nope, just apologetic bitching about uninstalling a plugin.
There is a huge difference, is iLife negatively affecting the performance of your computer when you open the box? No. Is Norton negatively affecting the performance of your computer when you open the box? Almost guaranteed. Is Safari forcing you to install plugins at startup? No. But for the OP, IE clearly did. You should never be forced to install anything on a machine, especially utter crap like the Windows Live Toolbar.
I would hardly care what was prepackaged with my PC if it didn't affect the machines performance. When I bought one of my Compaq's, oh, 6 or so years ago, the only thing pre-installed was MSN Messenger and MSN Browser or something of the sort, guess what, I didn't have anything to complain about because my computer still booted properly and wasn't slowed down by the programs. Same thing with iLife, my computer isn't slow to boot or run because of those programs, so I don't complain. The Vaios and HPs I've bought recently, however, are a far different story. Slow to boot out of the box is ridiculous.
Yeah, having had PCs and Apples in my since I was old enough to sit in a chair and see them, I have no clue how to properly uninstall programs on either one.
I only paint it how I see it and the way Apple packages and ships the software on their machines is very pretty in comparison to the majority of PC makers.
I think we have quite different definitions of bloat. Bloat to you is anything that takes up HD space and you don't regularly use or like, thats more of an Apple definition of bloat. Bloat to me is something that slows your machine down and makes it run poorly, thats bloat on the PC side. Whatever, to each their own, there are certain things I dislike about iLife, having used "proper" music and photo programs, but iLife is perfectly fine for my every day needs and many of the problems have easy workarounds, so I'll deal with my 3GB Garageband and iDVD library and continue using the programs.
Nope, I'm running a 2.33GHz 3GB MBP with external drives.
"80gb"? Are you kidding me? Do you think that is anything? Do you realise how much a single lossless or uncompressed file runs? Personally, I have more than 1.2 terrabyte of audio files.
80 gigs!? Puhlease
My point so conveniently ignored by you and your kindred spirits is that to some it's a useless already installed programme which takes up loads of space with no choice as to whether one wants it installed or not. You know just like the OP bitched about.
No, since I'm a Mac-user I have shun it like the plague,, because I have seen Norton cripple other Macs. But that's the point: Norton truly sucked on G4s and G3s (PPCs), but it never sucked as much on a PC.
See above before you continue your blather.
Wait. So the difference is that there AREN'T no difference. Wow,, that's excellent.
As mentioned, you sure like to paint a pretty picture.
You can't be serious? Name me ONE app for PC's that doesn't "provide" a task or provide entertainment. The only "app" I know off that is really a non-app is that rich-pic (jpeg) that cost US$999 for your iPhone.
What app preinstalled on basically anything does NOT prove a task or entertainment?
Don't be daft. See above.
The rest of your post? Well, it's more of the same daftness, so I have taken the liberty to ignore it.
This one takes the cake, though:
Don't worry, we know by now how you see it. Everything with an apple on it is sooo pretty, and everything that doesn't have a glowing apple is crap simply because it doesn't have one of those fruits glowing away.
Oh, I forgot:
Actually, bloat to me is both having a huge footprint, being slow because of inefficient code but "bloat" also includes user interfaces which has lost its bearing and now is all about adding features with no plan (iTunes).
cassie you just use old machines
and hey thats cool, i really want some old macs
here though they sell the floppys and ball mice, but they are seriously being fased out.
Eh, true, but it just kind of amazes me that a lot of people think these "legacy" ports aren't around anymore. Most any budget PC you buy these days has PS/2 and comes with a ball mouse.
Maybe I'm just used to lower end and older stuff, but I figured it was known that these things still existed.