Wow. Apple Maps is a disaster.

[pdqgp]

Can we agree on that nobody of us knows what Maps is used mostly for?

Agree.

IMO though, with the advent of cost effective GPS Units it's clear by seeing them so darn often and the sales of them having grown so much and quickly that routing is an important feature for many people albeit mainly while driving. Of course statistically speaking static maps will likely trump them but that's a given.

 

[Kukulcan]

This surely can't be true and if it is it's not representative of the majority of iPhone users in my experience.

There are many apps that review/locate POI's including restaurants, tourist sites, cinemas, banks, whatever else.

With having a detailed mapping database, everything becomes so much easier & available in the palm of your hand.

Taking a typical day, I could meet a potential customer at their office, which I've never been to before. I can look at the area beforehand on Street View to familiarise myself and check local parking information etc.

My girlfriend might then call me on the way home to say that our neighbour is having a few problems and won't be able to pick up their young son from nursery/pre-school. It doesn't matter that I've never been there before, because I'll find it on Google Maps and be able to navigate successfully

By the time we're home no-one feels like cooking, so my girlfriend suggests trying a new restaurant and we find which is the best Chinese in the next town.

During the meal, we might decide to see a film in a cinema in this town and be able to find reviews of the best cinema and accurate directions.

Finally after a good feed and a decent movie, we make it home and start planning to see some new sights/attractions when my parents visit at the weekend.

I might use multiple apps to achieve this, but it doesn't matter because previously at the core of iOS we had a reliable mapping service. This is why POI's matter to most people because they are used frequently in their daily lives.

Yeah, maybe some people work that way, we choose restaurants, shops and what ever from recommendations of friends.

Seriously, I never ever had a single look at google maps for an idea where to go out for dinner, cinema, shopping or whatever.

Especially when in foreign areas we always ask locals or at the hotel for recommendations.

It might be a prejudice, but small restaurants that don't care at all about being online might actually be better and cheaper. OK, looking for the next McDonalds, Pizza Hut or Burger King might be of interest sometimes, but those are usually the first that are mapped.

 

[pdqgp]

Voice turn by turn car navigation and 3D gizmos are eye catching marketing stuff, in fact only a small minority of people will ever need/use it on their phone.the rest of us need solid, univeral, accurate mapping, route planning for rail, walking, tourism, (and car - for PLANNING, not while driving) and POI info.

I bet the companies that sell navi units and have since been forced to sell apps for the various smart phones would disagree. TBT Navigation isn't just a marketing gimic. I travel for a living and see them in cars in every city I'm in. Even cabbies and limo drivers in big cities have them. They are even key with hikers and bikers.

 

[glynhughes]

...the fact is, neither I nor anybody I know ever cared about POIs in Maps.

What do I need POIs for if I can't navigate there? I still don't care about them but now I can navigate fine.

There's a staggering lack of empathy from new-map-fans here. Whilst I'm glad that there are some people who have gained utility from the new maps, I don't understand why their good fortune is accompanied by such selfish disregard (and even denials) that many people, like myself, have found the new maps to be retrograde to the point that they are unusable.

 

[bmwhd]

I'm a long time GPS user from hiking to motorcycles to cars so I'm familiar with a wide variety of user interfaces.

I used Navigon on my iPhone 4 and am now giving Apple's turn by turn a try. So far I've been impressed with the GUI, the recalc speed and route selection.

 

[nikomakhos]

"Apple passes the error reports to TomTom or whichever data vendor is responsible. Eventually, the vendor makes the correction, and hey, presto: Maps gets better."

Wow - i'm amazed how much stupid goes into this turd... passing it on!?! What the **** are they building? An IOS version of a bureaucracy?

If this is true, then the little faith I had in Apple fixing this mess is gone. They pass the reports on to TomTom and Yelp? That's it?!

 

[Cybbe]

Unfortunately, in common with many high-profile reviewers, he did not mention the problems with maps at all in his main review of the iPhone. In fact only a couple did and even then, they gave it no more than a few sentences.

He obviously feels a lot safer now the issues are being spoken about on a global basis.

David Pogue, Walt Mossberg, and others, are not trustworthy reviewers. Pogue, for instance, makes his living by the Apple ecosystem, and is not a journalist (New York Times words, not mine. They admit he is as trustworthy and objective as an Apple PR person). Walt was friendly with Steve Jobs, and even described as a friend by the company. They are only one uncomfortably step away from the even loonier fanboys such as John Gruber. And they are of course among the first to see new Apple products.

They don't dare mess with that relationship. That's why Mossberg mentioned lack of streetview as the main negative about Apple maps. Pogue doesn't even mention it; he hides it away in his iOS 6 review, and only there does he describe the maps POI as "sparser" than Google. Fanboy understatement of the year.

That anyone would trust these people is beyond me. But when even the Apple fringe start complaining about maps, you know its a serious problem.

 

[pdqgp]

If this is true, then the little faith I had in Apple fixing this mess is gone. They pass the reports on to TomTom and Yelp? That's it?!

I highly doubt they are simply passing off the needs of updates without an expectations in writing. There's no doubt a level of expectation and service via contract in place that Apple has established with these companies and their other partners to insure success and timely response. Just the same these two companies have a vested interest in insuring the project succeeds.

 

[MozMan68]

There's a staggering lack of empathy from new-map-fans.

What do you expect? All I read is constant complaining on how awful it is...yet it has worked perfectly for me...all poi's I've looked for are there.

Just returned from a trip to Boston and tried a third party app for transit directions...was clear and concise...way better than my experience with Google. And that is important to me as I do not use transit locally but rely on the info when I travel.

I get it...it doesn't work everywhere...may actually be awful in some cases...but I'm not gong to sit here and have a pity party for you. Just excited that my great experience will only get better.

 

[a0me]

What do I need POIs for if I can't navigate there? I still don't care about them but now I can navigate fine.

Good for you. In Japan, with Apple Maps, not only have we lost POIs (which, if you've ever been to Japan, you know are crucial) but the maps themselves are completely inaccurate (buildings, lakes, train stations, bridges have been moved, mislabeled, erased, misspelled or written in a different language, and so on)

I could maybe understand if Apple was only selling a couple of units over here, but Japan is still one of Apple's biggest market for the iPhone after the US (and the biggest spender of the Asian market in the App Store).

 

[pdqgp]

There's a staggering lack of empathy from new-map-fans here. Whilst I'm glad that there are some people who have gained utility from the new maps, I don't understand why their good fortune is accompanied by such selfish disregard (and even denials) that many people, like myself, have found the new maps to be retrograde to the point that they are unusable.

I wouldn't say there's a lack of empathy, I think many realize there are users who are unhappy and not able to use the product as they once were. In fact several have pointed out some alternative solutions that while may not be 100% ideal for you or others, are indeed viable and often better solution in many instances. I think there's a lack of clarity on what you expect those you're speaking of to do or say as a response? Do you really need them to justify an error that is clearly there? What is it you're looking for from them?

In return those that you are referencing are now in-turn looking to see if any of those impacted negatively are going to eventually make the move to either leave Apple, find alternatives, or simply continue to wallow.

We all know Apple is now clearly aware of the situation and on the way to making it better. We all know to some degree that Google is preparing an app and that hope there is on the horizon.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Kukulcan]

No we cannot agree. Apple, Google etc already have the stats on the uses of the mapping apps.

Voice turn by turn car navigation and 3D gizmos are eye catching marketing stuff, in fact only a small minority of people will ever need/use it on their phone.

the rest of us need solid, univeral, accurate mapping, route planning for rail, walking, tourism, (and car - for PLANNING, not while driving) and POI info.

I can PLAN as much as I like on my PC at home, even on my iPad in the browser with maps.google.com, sure would never ever do that planning on a tiny phone screen.

The multitude of POIs (in google maps) looks great at first, but as I said not even covers every second or third shop or other kinds of businesses. But sure it covers those business with a huge marketing budget and the resulting premium prices.

And to say turn by turn is eye catching marketing stuff is denying a multi-billion dollar industry of navigation hard and software.

 

[Frankied22]

There are no exit numbers on major interstates...what gives?

 

[a0me]

We all know Apple is now clearly aware of the situation and on the way to making it better.

Are they? It seems to me that the official answer was "please help us making it better."
(I'd suggest that they get their map data from trusted companies, just like Google does)

 

[The Phazer]

Yeah, fine sarcasm, but the fact is, neither I nor anybody I know ever cared about POIs in Maps.

What do I need POIs for if I can't navigate there? I still don't care about them but now I can navigate fine.

Huh?

With a POI you can navigate there on any map by *looking at the bloody map*!

What is the use of navigation if it's taking you to the wrong place???

 

[a0me]

The multitude of POIs (in google maps) looks great at first, but as I said not even covers every second or third shop or other kinds of businesses. But sure it covers those business with a huge marketing budget and the resulting premium prices.

Maybe where you live but where I am, Google Maps finds even the smallest shops and businesses provided they've been here for a reasonable amount of time.
My guess is that the partners with whom Google works over here are more efficient than the ones Google works with near your place.

 

[Kukulcan]

Huh?

With a POI you can navigate there on any map by *looking at the bloody map*!

What is the use of navigation if it's taking you to the wrong place???

Navigation never took me to the wrong place yet. And while driving I want to look at the road, but probably that is something special here in germany.

 

[pdqgp]

Are they? It seems to me that the official answer was "please help us making it better."
(I'd suggest that they get their map data from trusted companies, just like Google does)

I think it's fair to say yes, they know. It's also fair given they have announced this as a user improvable tool and built a feature to report issues to say, yes, if you are aware of a problem, please report it. If you don't want to fine but if you see a problem and do nothing about it and continue to say "that's not my job" then you get to live with it and forgo the right to continue bitching. The world has enough people saying "that's not my job"

Take action to help others and yourself and do more than just pointing out the areas of weakness. If all you want to do is that and have the right to complain, then step aside and move to another platform right off your loss make one final bitch post and then let Apple and the rest of us are looking to move on with a better more improved solution.

If you're one of those that feels Apple mis-lead you or owes you a refund or is feeling that jaded, then go through your carrier and or Apple and file for a refund and use the systems in place. Otherwise, you're welcome to continue venting here but don't count on anything being done as you're crying to folks who can't do anything but either agree or disagree with you but bring nothing to actually solving your problem. Vote with your wallet.

Huh? With a POI you can navigate there on any map by *looking at the bloody map*!

Much more dangerous to do behind The last thing we need is to have one more dumb a$$ behind the wheel staring at a screen. I'm also tire of knuckleheads in the city looking down at their phones holding up the flow of others.

What is the use of navigation if it's taking you to the wrong place???

It's not 100% broken for 100% of the population but not having TBT is 100% not having TBT and while not having it may still offer functionality to some, it doesn't offer functionality for everyone and when behind the wheel it's way more dangerous than having a GPS Call out turns.

 

[PhoneandPad]

Odd, I am seeing quite a few posts above for IOS 6/Apple Maps apologists claiming that they have the kind of lifestyle that does actually require a smartphone!

A whole new meaning to the term 'in denial'.

 

[theautopilot]

If this is true, then the little faith I had in Apple fixing this mess is gone. They pass the reports on to TomTom and Yelp? That's it?!

A while back a new roundabout (circle I think they are called in the US). I reported it to TomTom, as back then I used TomTom on my Windows Mobile 6 device. How long did it take to get added to the TomTom maps? 4 years.

 

[nikomakhos]

A while back a new roundabout (circle I think they are called in the US). I reported it to TomTom, as back then I used TomTom on my Windows Mobile 6 device. How long did it take to get added to the TomTom maps? 4 years.

Right. And people have been reporting mistakes in Maps since Beta 1, three months ago, that are still not fixed. And the POI problem does not go away if Apple decides to just trust Yelp. No-one uses Yelp in my country and still Apple thinks it's a good source of POI in here?

 

[Brazuca]

Why do so many people not bother researching before they post?

The number of employees at over 7000 for Google Maps (both full time & contractors) is widely reported across many online publications including well-known ones like CNET.

It's ok to have a debate, after all that's what a forum it's all about, but it's no wonder this thread is so large when some of us don't even take the time to check on the well known facts of the situation.

I did some reasearch. I couldn't find the original source. Do you have a link?

The reason I am skeptical is because I've seen estimates range from 1500-7500. And there is no mention as to what they are doing. Are these the total number of contractors? Does it include ad-guys? Etc.

Reading this also makes you wonder that if they have 7000+ working on maps, why do they need to go hire 300 people from a temp agency to make sure their business listings, etc. are correct: Google Plays Whack-A-Mole? (2010)

Late last night (see, there is an advantage to being a night owl), I received a note from Mike of Blumenthal’s blog who was passing on a note from one of his contacts (Chris Silver Smith) with a link to an article in TechFlash titled “Google hiring 300 workers to pinpoint bugs in Google Maps.” This appears to be another of those comedy pitches that are hard to find anywhere other than in the world of mapping.
What, Google needs to hire people to pinpoint the bugs in their maps? I thought that was the reason behind Google’s use of UGC and the map-feedback-loop? ...

The article from TechFlash starts “Google is hiring an army of 300 temporary workers in Kirkland as part of a yearlong campaign to improve the accuracy of Google Maps. The search giant is working with temp staffing agencies to find “computer geeks” familiar with geographic information systems and mapping software.” ...

Later in the article, it gets even better when the author of the piece (who seems to have done his homework), indicated that the two search firms helping to fill these position are looking “…to find 300 ‘visual data specialists’ to improve the product.” Jordan Newman, attributed as a “Google spokesman” in the article, apparently said “…much of the work will focus on data management.” The article goes on to indicate that data management includes “…keeping current on new business listings and the latest information on things like bike trails.” Whew, that’s a relief.

So, let’s be sure that we have this straight. Google apparently needs “computer geeks” familiar with GIS and mapping, who are “visual data specialists” and knowledgeable about data management topics such as keeping current on new business listings and the latest information on things like bike trails. You know, in all of my years in maps and mapping, I don’t remember ever meeting a person who had all of those skills, much less finding them in someone applying for a “temporary” job. ...

I realize that the emphasis here is that Google apparently believes it needs to hire a temporary work force to eliminate the map errors they did not catch in the original compilation process used to create the Google Base. However, my belief is that they will find out that research conducted by a professional team of map compilers could be of significant benefit to them. However, Google has a history of not liking solutions that are non-algorithmic. Imagine that, having to hire humans. Time will tell.

My point is, if google has 7000+ workers in google maps, why are they hiring only 300 temp people to work on map quality? Or we could assume that they learned since 2010 and have hired a lot of people full-time, bringing their total to 7000.

By the way, all of this advice to google in 2010 applies to Apple today.

 

[pdqgp]

Right. And people have been reporting mistakes in Maps since Beta 1, three months ago, that are still not fixed. And the POI problem does not go away if Apple decides to just trust Yelp. No-one uses Yelp in my country and still Apple thinks it's a good source of POI in here?

I'm curious as to how many folks experiencing issues with the new maps were also aware of the issues and concerns that have been posted about since June yet continued forward with updating their phone anyway?

 

[a0me]

Take action to help others and yourself and do more than just pointing out the areas of weakness. If all you want to do is that and have the right to complain, then step aside and move to another platform right off your loss make one final bitch post and then let Apple and the rest of us are looking to move on with a better more improved solution.

Thanks for the don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-the-way-out comment.

I like Apple products, have been using and recommending them around me for the past 10 years, and it's the first time that I feel like Apple and the Apple community in general has completely lost touch with the outside world, or at least a good part of it, defending a bad product and bad decisions with some sort of religious beliefs.
The "better more improved solution" already exists. It has been included in iOS for the last 5 years.
Even if by some miracle Apple catches up to the existing mapping data in the next 5 or 10 years, iOS users won't have gained anything and Apple might have saved a few bucks in licensing agreements. How this can make sense to anyone is beyond me.

 

[Akarin]

Let me jump on the bandwagon relating to the mapgate and say this: I don't like the new Maps very much, especially that it feels like a US-only targeted product and that I found a fair share of errors for my country already (I live in Switzerland). On the other hand, I don't like google maps either as it gives me the impression I am tracked by Big Brother.