Woz Laments No Headphone Jack on iPhone 7, Sees USB-C as Future of Audio

[ViewRoyal]

If Apple swapped to USB C this would all be a lot easier because it is becoming a standard being on all phones and laptops. Woz is right

I agree that it would be a good idea to standardize to a USB-C digital audio output on Macs and iOS devices, and that may be coming eventually, but currently there are some good reasons why Lightning is a better option than USB-C for the iPhone.

USB Type C connector is rated for up to 100W power, which is fine for running large power hungry devices, but it is over-kill for a smartphone or ARM tablet.

The USB-C connector is larger and thicker than the Lightning connector, so it takes up more space in the design of a smartphone than a Lightning connector.

If you look inside a USB-C connector you will see a very small and thin tab, with 24 tiny pins that connect to pins inside the USB-C plug. Lightning has a more durable, wider and thicker plug, with 8 much larger pins embedded in a thick metal tab. It is less likely to bend or break than the tiny USB-C connector tab.

The other area that might be prone to problems, especially with mobile devices that are stuck in pockets and bags, or dropped on the ground, is that the pins on a USB-C connector are tinier and closer together than the pins on a Lightning connector, so they are more easily scratched or covered in dirt.

In terms of hardware availability, there are currently a wide range of styles and price range for Lightning headphones. But there are very few USB-C headphones available in comparison.

 

[Crwmlw]

Me, my wife and daughter have the iphone 6S plus with very high end wired noise cancelling headphones since we fly so much. These will still be ok as long as we dont lose or forget the adapter, I understand change is good sometimes but based on having 3 pairs of high end headphones im pissed.

 

[Sefstah]

Well if thats all you can come up, you're trolling.

Why even reply if you have nothing to say? You sound like the true troll here

 

[drewsof07]

What if I'm at work, I'm charging my iPhone and I want to listen to music stored on the phone? One port for audio and charging. Doh!

No worries, I'm sure the battery life will be quadrupled.
Not.

 

[RemE]

Woz is right, many folks will be very unhappy about this. If you are a BT user, good on you, you are set already. As both a wireless power user I will only say, wait till the masses find out about managing batteries in small headsets etc, leave them in a drawer and they are toast after a month or two. I have many wireless headsets and they all suffer occasional dropouts and odd behavior.

The headphone jack serves more that just headphones, there are external MIC's, Credit Card readers, Wind Meters, all kinds of cool add-ons that folks have created.

Plus the charge while listening while traveling on a plane, the ability to "Jack-in" to other audio sources around you are also nice.

This is an arrogant and self serving move by Apple and I will force my family over to Samsung after our 6s Apple contracts expire. I couldn't be more disappointed in this really crappy decision. I have no issues with progress, I beta test lots of stuff and early adopt all day long. Lightning was a solid improvement over the 30 pin connector but this move is not forward thinking about anything except profits and lock-down.

 

[BornAgainMac]

The lighting port might have made sense a decade ago but Apple really should have gone with USB C.

 

[Osamede]

Bluetooth is hugely inferior to wired from an audio fidelity perspective; Woz is 100% correct about that. It could be, however, that your wireless headphones are better than your wired ones, which would mean your comparison is not apples-to-apples.

1) Garbage in, garbage out: if you start with a Bluetooth audio source, then already you got crap sound before it ever gets sent to the transducers.

2) Dirty secret of headphones is that they can only be so good. So the last thing you need is a muddy signal

I have no problem with idea of digital or wireless input to the headphone. But then use the power of digital to deliver a pristine lossless signal!

if you are sending a degraded "Bluetooth" signal digitally, then the entire thing is selling snake oil to fools who don't know any better.

 

[5105973]

Woz is right, many folks will be very unhappy about this. If you are a BT user, good on you, you are set already. As both a wireless power user I will only say, wait till the masses find out about managing batteries in small headsets etc, leave them in a drawer and they are toast after a month or two. I have many wireless headsets and they all suffer occasional dropouts and odd behavior.

The headphone jack serves more that just headphones, there are external MIC's, Credit Card readers, Wind Meters, all kinds of cool add-ons that folks have created.

Plus the charge while listening while traveling on a plane, the ability to "Jack-in" to other audio sources around you are also nice.

This is an arrogant and self serving move by Apple and I will force my family over to Samsung after our 6s Apple contracts expire. I couldn't be more disappointed in this really crappy decision. I have no issues with progress, I beta test lots of stuff and early adopt all day long. Lightning was a solid improvement over the 30 pin connector but this move is not forward thinking about anything except profits and lock-down.

I agree. My husband got me Bluetooth earbuds and a huge noise cancelling Bluetooth earphones. There are situations in which Bluetooth is convenient but overall I prefer wired. The sound keeps dropping and skipping on both over Bluetooth and there is a drain on my iPhone battery because I'm also using Bluetooth for my Apple Watch.

I make every attempt to keep them charged but it's a pain. You can't say anything is truly wireless when you have to go to your crowded charging strips and charge all of your "wireless" devices.

The crazy thing about my Bluetooth headphones is that they are Apple's Beats brand and they come with a wire which you can connect to the iPhone but only with a 3.5 mm jack! So I'm going to need an adapter for that.

I can see ahead to a much improved wireless future, but I do think this move by Apple--if the rumor is true--is at least one device generation premature.

****
As a personal caveat from me to anyone contemplating the move to Android and specifically Samsung over this headphone jack thing, reconsider and do it because you have researched this option thoroughly and truly like what Samsung's version of Android has to offer. It's not an instant one day transition and can go very roughly for those who made the jump out of spite to Apple rather than really wanting what Android and Samsung have to offer.

I've watched in the past few days as many have jumped to Samsung out of anger over Apple for various things, only to give up in disgust and return their Note7s after literally only a day or a few hours of trying to set it up.

Make sure your kids (if you have any) are okay with switching because most kids depend on iMessage as a lot of them are using old iPads and iPods to text or FaceTime each other. I find IPhones preferable as a parent because Apple is better about keeping dodgy content out of its App Store.

Even my husband and I aren't ditching Apple over this. I still have my iPad mini and my IPhone SE. I love my Note7 so far and am impressed with my Gear S2 enough to give one of my Apple watches to my daughter, but Apple is still really damned good at what they do and iPhone 7 still potentially has a lot to offer. ***

 

[Waxhead138]

Wireless audio isn't "flat". I have a pair and they are better than my wired ones. Go figure.

That's why this subject is so touchy though....music is a very subjective thing. Opinion and experience matter as much as the source material. Take for instance: I grew up at the end of the cassette era and bought those for awhile and primarily CDs. (Primarily rock metal and punk, some grunge) That's my go to reference when defining acceptable sound. For others, live classical with many volumetric highs and lows might be the bar set. That changes the game. For many of the younger ppl out there the main source was MP3 / MP4, we all know those bit rates can vary, changing the sound quality. For sake of argument, let's assume most who grew up on MP3 dealt with 256. If that's the reference point of quality, then wireless earphones will satisfy most out there, and even cheap wired ones will sound decent as well. It depends on where you set your bar for quality (not you specifically, but people).

 

[apolloa]

Hmmm I do believe Wozniak has more to do with none Apple devices these days, so not sure if he's pushing things for his own gains? I don't think USB is the future of audio, and that a Nexus he praises also ditched wireless charging its predecessor had so you won't be charging it and using USB headphones at the same time Mr Wozniak.

 

[nt5672]

Probably I can tell the difference, as I'm a sound engineer and a producer.

However, you (and others) seem to completely forget a little something called "technology advancement". Bluetooth 5 is just around the corner and every signal points to wireless headphones with good DACs sounding way better than wired ones driven by middling Cirrus Logic DACs.

Get over it.

We have to wait and see if this is just marketing hype or reality. I'm not holding my breath. I looked quickly at some BT5 internet pages and did not find any improvements in audio transmission mentioned. BT5 does not define what DAC is used. Sure BT5 is supposed to be faster, handle longer distances, and use lower power. I found nothing about improving the quality of real time synchronous audio streams. Wireless signals always have errors due to interference. These errors, for real time audio, potentially result in latency, dropouts, and jitter.

You can sure bet that the low end BT5 headphones will be much worse than wired ear buds (if that is possible), cost lots more, weight lots more, and have to be recharged often. I don't call that an improvement or a technology advancement. I call that what it is, Apple reducing cost at the expense of their customers.

 

[Mac 128]

LOL. No. It isn't.

There are over a billion iOS devices with Lightning in the wild. I would say THAT is the standard, regardless if its not an open standard.

And besides...I've heard this story before with new connector fad. I was told many times that Mini and Micro USB were 'TEH STANDARDZ" and needed to be adopted globally. I lol'ed then and I lol now.
[doublepost=1472055721][/doublepost]
Offhand it seems like a decent connector that is worth doubling down on.

But, is it worth the pain of another connector transition on iOS? Surely not.

LOL EXACTLY! If the average technology consumer is going to be confused by multiple ports on a device, then Lightning and USB-C are the least of their worries ... god help the poor idiot who buys a MacBook Pro!

If I hear someone make this argument again I will blow my brains out!!!!! Please......for the last time.......to everyone claiming they will have to go out and buy lightning connected headphones or be "forced to using inferior bluetooth, or their really expensive in ear monitors will now be useless, please read carefully. Its very clear :

" the company will include Lightning-equipped EarPods in the box, as well as a Lightning-to-jack adapter to allow users like Woz to connect their existing wired earphones to the device."

Ok???get it now??? You can continue to use the headphones you currently have. Let me say it again....you can continue using the headphones you currently have. My god I hope this the last time I hear the "but my UE 900's wont work without the old headphone jack, and Im such a huge audiophile (even though we're talking about listening to music on a phone) I wont be able to use them anymore" excuse.

Sorry no, I don't agree. Apple will not perpetuate the use of 3.5mm equipment by including an adapter so that customers can just keep using their old headphones without even giving them pause to consider the alternatives. They may include a 3.5mm to Lightning adapter so that the included Lightning equipped EarPods can be used with legacy Apple equipment, like iPods and Macs (as that may be quite cheap passing the analogue signal right through the Lightning connector and bypassing the DAC, straight to the transducers). But that's it.

The lighting port might have made sense a decade ago but Apple really should have gone with USB C.

The Lightning port didn't exist a decade ago. Nor did USB-C. Apple introduced Lightning 4 years ago -- where was USB-C then? USB-C had it's chance, and missed it. The future is wireless -- Apple would be foolish to require their Half-A-Billion plus installed iOS user base to toss out 4 years of acquired accessories and cables, just to accommodate a new standard that won't offer any improvements to the iPhone, or iPad, and which will be useless in another 4-5 years when Apple removes all of it's physical ports on mobile devices.

 

[ukmacpro]

If I hear someone make this argument again I will blow my brains out!!!!! Please......for the last time.......to everyone claiming they will have to go out and buy lightning connected headphones or be "forced to using inferior bluetooth, or their really expensive in ear monitors will now be useless, please read carefully. Its very clear :

" the company will include Lightning-equipped EarPods in the box, as well as a Lightning-to-jack adapter to allow users like Woz to connect their existing wired earphones to the device."

Ok???get it now??? You can continue to use the headphones you currently have. Let me say it again....you can continue using the headphones you currently have. My god I hope this the last time I hear the "but my UE 900's wont work without the old headphone jack, and Im such a huge audiophile (even though we're talking about listening to music on a phone) I wont be able to use them anymore" excuse.

Perhaps I wasn't so clear.

My real point was that if we're going to replace the jack, then it would be better to be USB-C. Because then more people can easily adopt it across other audio equipment. I think it's a bit of a long shot to expect USB-C ports every piece of audio equipment... But at least hopefully on most computers/phones/tablets. Perhaps other audio manufacturers would then consider using USB-C connectors for headphones...

If you're replacing a ubiquitous connector, then you should replace it with a connector that has the same potential to be everywhere, so you can swap one set of headphones from device to device without needing adaptors for every different one.

 

[dekadent]

One word: aptX

But Apple is apparently not interested in paying the licence fee to give their customers better bluetooth audio. Apple is interested in licensing their Lightning-technology to headset manufacturers to give their customers more expensive wired headphones. But hey, it's the Future!

 

[Porco]

I'm still unconvinced of a need to remove the 3.5mm jack socket at all, at least as far as consumer benefit goes.

Having thought about this way too much, if the headphone jack socket goes, I would still likely buy a future iPhone without it (all else being equal, which it never is, so I don't know?!), but I simply wouldn't consider it a music-playback device anymore. It'd be a phone and a small iOS computing device, fine. The iPod part of it would be dead to me, and the prospect of me signing up to Apple Music would further recede.

But I'm probably not the target market, and I feel depressingly sure enough people won't care and will happily buy lightning and/or bluetooth headphones instead. Oh well.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

What if I'm at work, I'm charging my iPhone and I want to listen to music stored on the phone? One port for audio and charging. Doh!

There's an included adapter

 

[Cosmoknot]

Wired stuff is not the future.

It's so obvious it's almost painful, but resistance to change is so strong here.

You're absolutely right. But so is Woz. The audio quality just doesn't compare yet. Once it does, I'm happy to go full wireless.

We're just not there yet. If Apple wants to force the change to speed things up, that's fine. I just won't be buying anything without a jack until they figure it out.
[doublepost=1472075796][/doublepost]

Wireless audio isn't "flat". I have a pair and they are better than my wired ones. Go figure.

What are these magical wireless headphones, and what are you using for wired?

In testing out dozens of wireless headphones, I've yet to find anything that sound as good as even my low-end Grados.

 

[Mac 128]

Perhaps I wasn't so clear.

My real point was that if we're going to replace the jack, then it would be better to be USB-C. Because then more people can easily adopt it across other audio equipment. I think it's a bit of a long shot to expect USB-C ports every piece of audio equipment... But at least hopefully on most computers/phones/tablets. Perhaps other audio manufacturers would then consider using USB-C connectors for headphones...

If you're replacing a ubiquitous connector, then you should replace it with a connector that has the same potential to be everywhere, so you can swap one set of headphones from device to device without needing adaptors for every different one.

Just where are people going to find all this USB-C equipment? Nobody in my office has anything with USB-C. I can't buy a USB-C cable at 7-11 at 3AM like I can Lightning. And by the time USB-C begins to achieve widespread adoption, most likely everything is going to go wireless anyway. Consumer Amps already have USB-A and Bluetooth. USB-C is just a connector change. Chances are anybody using an iPhone with such an amp is likely to opt for the wireless option anyway all things being equal. But if I did plug in my iPhone, I'd rather buy a cheap Lightning to USB adapter than have to replace my 4 year investment in cables and accessories. Manufacturers are likely to eventually add USB-C ports as standard regardless of what Apple does or doesn't do. But in 4-5 it's probably not going to matter what port the iPhone has.

One word: aptX

But Apple is apparently not interested in paying the licence fee to give their customers better bluetooth audio. Apple is interested in licensing their Lightning-technology to headset manufacturers to give their customers more expensive wired headphones. But hey, it's the Future!

No. The FUTURE is wireless.

Perhaps Apple approached aptX with the prospect of making a deal for use on their over half-a-billion installed user base, and aptX refused. Perhaps Apple thinks they can do better than aptX. In which case, if aptX ever did get such an offer, they're going to lose big time when Apple introduces its wireless improvements. Maybe more expensive Lightning headphones is part of the plan to encourage customers to consider wireless for the same price. And maybe Lightning won't be that much more expensive, but the ability to get wired quality audio via wireless headphones with improved battery life will help drive wireless audio adoption rather than embrace a new standard.

Whatever Apple's plan, Lightning is merely a convenience for those who still need wires as Apple will just as likely remove the Lightning port altogether in 4-5 years.

 

[ipedro]

Plus there's absolutely no comparison if you're serious about high audio quality (as I know you are)!

If you're serious about high audio quality, you're not listening to your music through an iPhone with its just good enough DAC. If you're serious about audio, you'd want an external DAC, something that... say... can be plugged into a Lightning port for pure digital audio directly through to the higher quality DAC in professional level headphones.

 

[RemE]

I agree. My husband got me Bluetooth earbuds and a huge noise cancelling Bluetooth earphones. There are situations in which Bluetooth is convenient but overall I prefer wired. The sound keeps dropping and skipping on both over Bluetooth and there is a drain on my iPhone battery because I'm also using Bluetooth for my Apple Watch.

I make every attempt to keep them charged but it's a pain. You can't say anything is truly wireless when you have to go to your crowded charging strips and charge all of your "wireless" devices.

The crazy thing about my Bluetooth headphones is that they are Apple's Beats brand and they come with a wire which you can connect to the iPhone but only with a 3.5 mm jack! So I'm going to need an adapter for that.

I can see ahead to a much improved wireless future, but I do think this move by Apple--if the rumor is true--is at least one device generation premature.

****
As a personal caveat from me to anyone contemplating the move to Android and specifically Samsung over this headphone jack thing, reconsider and do it because you have researched this option thoroughly and truly like what Samsung's version of Android has to offer. It's not an instant one day transition and can go very roughly for those who made the jump out of spite to Apple rather than really wanting what Android and Samsung have to offer.

I've watched in the past few days as many have jumped to Samsung out of anger over Apple for various things, only to give up in disgust and return their Note7s after literally only a day or a few hours of trying to set it up.

Make sure your kids (if you have any) are okay with switching because most kids depend on iMessage as a lot of them are using old iPads and iPods to text or FaceTime each other. I find IPhones preferable as a parent because Apple is better about keeping dodgy content out of its App Store.

Even my husband and I aren't ditching Apple over this. I still have my iPad mini and my IPhone SE. I love my Note7 so far and am impressed with my Gear S2 enough to give one of my Apple watches to my daughter, but Apple is still really damned good at what they do and iPhone 7 still potentially has a lot to offer. ***

I did say Samsung but honestly I will research carefully. I have most of my co-workers to ask as they are all Android users. One evening at Disneyland we were taking low light pictures and one guy's Samsung absolutely blew away my iPhone 6s. I thought my camera was great but in low light it was truly night and day. Leo Laporte often mentions several Android devices that are simply better devices. And somehow these other vendors even made a water resistant phone with a headphone jack. Until we stop acting like sheep and push back with our wallets Apple will just do as they please regardless of what it costs the consumer.

I do like the iOS ecosystem, but it is perhaps time to try something else. There are many apps, like WiFi analyzers that are very handy, available from Android and blocked by Apple. My kids will simply have to deal with my decisions, until they buy their own gear.

 

[keysofanxiety]

If you're serious about high audio quality, you're not listening to your music through an iPhone with its just good enough DAC. If you're serious about audio, you'd want an external DAC, something that... say... can be plugged into a Lightning port for pure digital audio directly through to the higher quality DAC in professional level headphones.

Agreed. I doubt any of us would be giving objective mixing/mastering feedback on songs, whilst listening through dynamic range headphones plugged into an iPhone!

Though plugging a pair of decent headphones DI to an iPhone's audio jack does save the hassle of carting around an external DAC Even when listening to music recreationally, why do it through crappy headphones!

 

[Beerstalker]

It's painful for me. I am keeping my 6S, because I recently purchased a Shure SE846 earphones, one of the best earphones Shure made. Guess what? It's not wireless.

I don't want to shell out another $300 for a Wireless headphone, because if I do, it'll be a Bose Quietcomfort 35, AND on top of the iPhone 7. So no. I'm sticking with the 6S and wait for the 10th year anniversary iPhone 8.

Kinda sad, because I upgrade the iPhone yearly too.

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it (because I haven't read all 140 posts yet), but my guess is Shure will release a new set of Earphone Accessory cables with a lightning plug and built in amp/DAC matched to their drivers. Kind of like these, but updated with lightning/amp/DAC. It might end up costing $100 or so, but then you could keep using your nice Earphones.
http://www.shure.com/americas/produ...ones/earphone-headphone-cables/m-mplus-cables

 

[Cosmoknot]

If you're serious about high audio quality, you're not listening to your music through an iPhone with its just good enough DAC. If you're serious about audio, you'd want an external DAC, something that... say... can be plugged into a Lightning port for pure digital audio directly through to the higher quality DAC in professional level headphones.

I think that's a bit extreme. There's a difference between wanting the highest possible audio quality, and not wanting a downgrade in audio quality (which is what we currently have with wireless).

 

[urbanman2004]

I just hope no other Android phone manufacturers follow suit. The one time when copy-catting isn't cool

 

[Trius]

Ever heard of using the same headphones you currently have on the new iPhone? Unless your solution is that everybody should just invest in a new pair of headphones. Jesus.

Charging the iPhone and listening to music at the same time is a very valid point. What will the quality of the DAC be? How sturdy would the converter be? Would Apple even release something that would allow charging & headphones at the same time?

So tired of seeing this complaint. Valid concern? Sure, but obviously Apple has considered this and has a solution. To imply they haven't is asinine.