Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
China suicide rates
CHINA (Selected rural & urban areas) ±14 per 100K
http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suiciderates/en/

Foxconn suicide rates
920,000 employees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn
14 suicides http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Foxconn_suicides

1.5 suicides per 100K

To compare

France Télécom suicide rates

The suicide rate among France Télécom's 102,000 domestic employees is 15.3 per year, compared with an average of 14.7 suicides per 100,000 in the French population as a whole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_telecom

Now can you PLEASE stop with your whiney humanity stuff. Foxconn should get a medal for having low suicide rates.

Stop believing everything the media wants to shove down your throat.
 
13 suicides out of Foxconn's 920,000 employees? Underwhelmed. Besides, China could probably use some thinning out.

This exactly.

And you have no idea WHY those 13 employees committed suicide. What if they were mentally unstable? You never know what they were going through. If they didn't want to work the hours of the business they could have quit. It's that simple. You can't just assume everything you read is true.

Let me guess... You're one of the ones that still believes in global warming?

No matter what you do or what you say to Apple, nothing is going to happen. A new iPhone is still going to come out, and they are still going to sell another 100 + million world wide.

And think about it this way.. Without Foxcon, a million people would be looking for a job. Apple is doing them a favor.
 
This exactly.

What if they were mentally unstable?

Let me guess... You're one of the ones that still believes in global warming?

And think about it this way.. Without Foxcon, a million people would be looking for a job. Apple is doing them a favor.


Mentally unstable?? You think?? :confused:

Global warming! I'm looking forward to it after this winter. Never did like Polar Bears anyway... :D

If anything Foxconn is saving lives... :)

Keep up the good work Apple... You can send me my iPhone 5 now!! :)
 
You wouldn't accomplish anything by complaining to Apple. Apple does not owe a duty of care to the employees of their supplier and they are likely under contract with this supplier so they won't just threaten to leave.

You asked why the production lines can't be in other countries? This is because it is much cheaper to mass produce electronic items in China (businesses want to minimize costs).

Get out of your hipster save-the-world phase and try to take a less biased and more rational view on this.
 
V2Ul6.jpg
 
Last edited:
Where do I sign the petition to close down MIT, Caltech, and Cornell, because apparently people commit suicide there as well?
 
I think you're wrong about Apple; I think it's a company that is prouder of the wonderful revolutions it has made in personal computing and telephone technology than it is avid for profit. I hope so.

Every company exists for profit, Apple may like to hide the fact they exist for profit but like every company in the world they do. If they didn't want profit they would give away iPods using their 50+ billion dollars.

Before anyone flames me, I am a fully fledged Apple fanboy and have never used a PC and 3 out of 4 phones I've owned have been an iPhone. i just have to use my business experience and say every company is in it for $$.
 
Every company exists for profit, Apple may like to hide the fact they exist for profit but like every company in the world they do. If they didn't want profit they would give away iPods using their 50+ billion dollars.

Before anyone flames me, I am a fully fledged Apple fanboy and have never used a PC and 3 out of 4 phones I've owned have been an iPhone. i just have to use my business experience and say every company is in it for $$.

Oh, me too! Total Mac fan. And of course companies have to make profit. But if Apple employed their workers directly, they might make a little less financial profit, but they would profit ethically beyond any price. And it would get them a good warm buzz from customers.
 
Oh, me too! Total Mac fan. And of course companies have to make profit. But if Apple employed their workers directly, they might make a little less financial profit, but they would profit ethically beyond any price. And it would get them a good warm buzz from customers.

That's very true although it would be a logistical nightmare having to manage 1 million employees, as well as run their own factories etc.

I believe Apple needs to do more about the suicides at Foxcon. I say a petition is in order, it should be able to generate a few thousand signatures minimum and if that fails perhaps a boycott of Apple products or something like only buying new apple products a month after their release, that would really send the message.
 
That's very true although it would be a logistical nightmare having to manage 1 million employees, as well as run their own factories etc.

I believe Apple needs to do more about the suicides at Foxcon. I say a petition is in order, it should be able to generate a few thousand signatures minimum and if that fails perhaps a boycott of Apple products or something like only buying new apple products a month after their release, that would really send the message.

D'you know, macingman, petitions aren't actually as effective as personal letters. A petition is a list of names, whereas personal letters - kind, generous, courteous requests for change, and on lots of different papers in lots of different handwriting or typing or printing - really press the point that people are serious.

Here's the names of the Apple directors - anyone who feels that the company should change these practices can write to them at

Apple
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, CA 95014
USA

Steve Jobs
CEO

Tim Cook
Chief Operating Officer

Scott Forstall
Senior Vice President
iPhone Software

Jonathan Ive
Senior Vice President
Industrial Design

Ron Johnson
Senior Vice President
Retail

Bob Mansfield
Senior Vice President
Mac Hardware Engineering
 
This is one of the few long threads I've read throughout. I see both side to the story but seriously, the OP is p#ssing in the wind. It's the source of the products that needs to be targeted. If you have issues with Foxconn's practises, you need to take it up with them.... surely it's as simple as that?
 
This is one of the few long threads I've read throughout. I see both side to the story but seriously, the OP is p#ssing in the wind. It's the source of the products that needs to be targeted. If you have issues with Foxconn's practises, you need to take it up with them.... surely it's as simple as that?

Oh yes, that too.

But without people "speaking truth to power", as the Quakers say, there would still be slavery in the Deep South.
 
But what are you/we going to do with the inevitable reply that the suicide rate in the factory staff is ten times lower than that of the general population? Tell them "well we think it should be even lower"?

You're going to struggle to stop people committing suicide if they want to, and I'd imagine there's always a low background rate of people with depressive illness who are tipped over the edge by circumstances -- which are possibly/probably/likely? completely related to work conditions -- and will commit suicide anyway.
 
Dear friends, I and a group of others wish to write to Apple requesting that it changes its manufacturing practices for iPhones.

You are a bit late here. Just about a week or two ago Apple has released its latest Supplier Responsibility report which can be found at

http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf/Apple_SR_2011_Progress_Report.pdf

I think you will find that it addresses all the issues that you are complaining about. Your term "iPhone suicides" seems well, just slightly exaggerated, considering that (1) the Foxconn plant in question produces gazillions of items other than iPhones, and (2) the suicide rate of workers at Foxconn is actually less than half that of the general population of the USA, which has about 30,000 suicides per year on average.

You're going to struggle to stop people committing suicide if they want to, and I'd imagine there's always a low background rate of people with depressive illness who are tipped over the edge by circumstances -- which are possibly/probably/likely? completely related to work conditions -- and will commit suicide anyway.

Read that report. Apple and Foxconn have actually acted and reduced the rate. In the UK, the suicide rate had been reduced by a very simple law change: No pharmacy is allowed to sell you enough sleeping tablets to kill yourself. And surprisingly, many people who would go to a pharmacy, buy lots of sleeping tablets, go home and swallow them, don't manage to go to two or three pharmacies to collect the required number of tablets. Very simple measures can reduce suicide rates.

One thing that Foxconn has done is putting up nets to catch people jumping off the roofs. And people reading that have claimed that this is just taking the piss. And they are right: It is taking the piss, and it works. Imagine you stand on the top of a roof, ready to jump, and then you notice a net to catch you. You think: These bastards, I am standing here, desperate, ready to take my life, and they are taking the piss by putting up a net. That anger alone can be enough to change a person's mind. And once you're off that roof, you think that you just almost died and now is the time to take some serious action.


Quit and do another job

Not only do I think that this is a deeply immoral and despicable attitude to problems in China, but so does Apple (see report above).


I've been to china and seen places these people work and while I won't object to your cause it'll be almost impossible for you to make an impact. Until you can turn the economic tides and make it cheaper to produce these things in America again nothing will change.

You can't make a change, but Apple can. And does. See report above.


That doesn't mean we're stuck with Foxconn staying the way it is. Apple has been quite responsive to shifts in consumer ethics over the past few years. Earlier this decade, environmental groups targeted Apple for its spotty record. The company's first response was to deny every accusation, but that soon became untenable; the perception that Apple wasn't green was affecting its public image. At that point Apple did something smart—it decided to turn a disadvantage into a selling point. The company rolled out a progressive environmental plan, and Jobs now touts Apple's greenness every time he releases a new product. (Greenpeace now ranks Apple's environmental record in the middle of the pack among tech companies.)
Nice quote, but very very misleading. The Greenpeace idiots actually rated companies by the promises they made without checking what companies actually did. In one case they gave Hewlett Packard maximum points for promising to get rid of some materials within two years, when Apple got no points for not making any such promise. However, the Greenpeace idiots didn't notice that Apple had already stopped using these materials for several years. This is like comparing one husband who promises to stop beating his wife within two years, and another one who makes no such promise - because he has never done it in his life!
 
Last edited:
IndianBird says: "Quit and do another job" - but this is not an option for the impoverished people who work for Apple's subsidiaries. Lucky you, if you have that option. May it remain with you, no matter what happens to your own economy.

Let's at least use the right language. None of these companies are Apple subsidiaries. They are Apple's business partners. There is a world of difference. In the case of a subsidiary, Apple can be held directly liable for the treatment of workers through ownership of the factory. With business partners, it is a lot murkier.

And I don't think a lot of us are saying "Don't do it, nothing will change." It's more about tempering expectations of such an endeavor. Large companies that don't do their own manufacturing have a quandary of their own: Go with certain companies that can produce the quantities that they need to supply global demand for their products, or watch their manufacturing capacity fall like a stone.

The manufacturers that have a chance at being able to supply the likes of Apple are in the far east right now, and are either competitors unwilling to do final assembly for them like Samsung, or are companies like Foxconn. It's a rock and a hard place. You can petition Apple, Government, etc all you like to change that, but short of getting China to regulate these companies it won't do a lick of good in the end. The best approach here is to produce a competitor to these manufacturing corporations. Even that is fraught with hurdles, but more feasible. Especially if you look to a country like India that has a booming population, is wildly industrializing, and an opportunity to improve the quality of life for a large segment of the population outside the urban centers.
 
Oh yes, that too.

But without people "speaking truth to power", as the Quakers say, there would still be slavery in the Deep South.


Source please?

Funny how you don't live in America but you seem to think it is ok to make assumptions about the cultural climate here. Oh, wait....you probably read an article on the internet and now consider yourself "enlightened".
 
Complete and utter waste of time and energy considering Apple is already trying to do things and so is Foxxcon. Better then most companies and better then the world average suicide rate. :rolleyes:

Go masturbate and then cry over all millions of dead potential people.
 
This is moronic.

The suicide rates are lower than most cities in the US. There are real problems in this world. Don't waste you time on this non-problem.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.