WTF is Apple doing!?!?!?!?

nightdweller25

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 2, 2005
421
0
Ok, think about it, a $999 eMac's graphics card is better than $1,699 12-inch PowerBook, and also has dual-layer burn capabilities, but none of the PowerBooks do. WTF! so far an eMac is way better than a curret model 12-inch PowerBook! (This makes me sad considerign how much this thing cost, and to see something about half the cost be more powerful) :( :( :(
 

iGary

Guest
May 26, 2004
19,583
0
Randy's House
nightdweller25 said:
Ok, think about it, a $799 eMac's graphics card is better than $1,699 12-inch PowerBook, and also has dual-layer burn capabilities, but none of the PowerBooks do. WTF! so far an eMac is way better than a curret model 12-inch PowerBook! (This makes me sad considerign how much this thing cost, and to see something about half the cost be more powerful) :( :( :(
Carry the eMac with you on your next trans-continental flight.
 

dotdotdot

macrumors 68020
Jan 23, 2005
2,381
31
PowerBooks = Portability (The 12" is $1,499 not $1,699 by the way)
eMacs = lowest quality Macs (besides the mini) which has not recieved a SIGNIFICANT upgrade for over a year.

PowerBooks have more things standard than eMacs, as well as better screens than eMacs and standard BT + AE... if you get the eMac with the same possible specs as a PowerBook, you are looking at an expensive machine. Also, the processor is slow.
 

nightdweller25

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 2, 2005
421
0
dotdotdot said:
PowerBooks = Portability (The 12" is $1,499 not $1,699 by the way)
eMacs = lowest quality Macs (besides the mini) which has not recieved a SIGNIFICANT upgrade for over a year.

PowerBooks have more things standard than eMacs, as well as better screens than eMacs and standard BT + AE... if you get the eMac with the same possible specs as a PowerBook, you are looking at an expensive machine. Also, the processor is slow.
Dude, I'm talking about the superdrive model, not the combo drive, but I did forget to change the pricing of the eMac to the superdrive model. and by the way, it is NOT slow, 1.42 vs. 1.5 wow, what a difference.
 

jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,819
41
Andover, MA
This is temporary (although there will always be a laptop premium). New PBs are inevitable, and I'm sure that summer will see at least 1920x1200 screens on the 17", if not substantial CPU improvements. QT HD will be supported on the high-end PBs within a few months. Mark my words. So will four-way iChat.
 

mcgarry

macrumors 6502a
Oct 19, 2004
616
0
stop the presses

You mean Apple is asking consumers to pay a premium for portability? I'm floored.

But seriously, yes, Apple's portable lines could use an update, but what you are pointing out is not all that unusual, never has been, might never be.
 

macbaseball

macrumors 6502a
Feb 27, 2005
988
0
Northern California
iGary said:
Carry the eMac with you on your next trans-continental flight.
Lol, exactly. The Powerbook is for speed and portablility. It can't have all the features because it needs to be portable. The parts have to be a lot smaller to be able to fit in a one inch think PB. If you have eMac sized parts in a 12 inch PB, the thing would be like 3 inches thick. That's why you can only upgarde in the 15 and 17 inch models. Also Apple wants you to buy the upper models, because thye make more money.
 

plinden

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2004
3,969
3
What has always struck me as odd about Apple's laptop lineup is, they charge less for the small and light 12" ones. All PC manufacturers charge more for their the smaller, lighter, and less capable laptops.

Anyway, let's look at my PC laptop - it's one year old, weighs 4.5 lbs, has a 1.6 GHz Pentium M (equivalent to a 2.4 Pentium 4), an ATI Firegl 9000 graphics card (a three year old card in a one year old PC - oh! the horror!) with 32MB VRAM, 60 GB 5400 rpm HD, 1.5 GB RAM. It cost my company $3500 a year ago and the equivalent (T42p) is a similar price now, if about 20% faster.

Now, you can get a Dell with similar specs for $600.

What the heck were IBM thinking, charging $3500 for this when I could have got a desktop for a fraction of the price?
 

dav

macrumors 6502
Jun 29, 2004
491
9
Apple's notebooks lag sadly behind their desktops, we get it

Stop rubbing it in! :rolleyes:


(iBook Owner :) )
 

calyxman

macrumors 6502a
Apr 17, 2005
610
0
Once again you mac zealots are blinded by your silly faith to Apple and have to poo-poo nightdweller's point without stopping to think. It's sad to see how people rationalize a missing feature in a supposedly top-of-the-line notebook. Go look at other notebook manufacturers and you'll find many supporting dual-layer dvd drives along with other superior hardware specs. Sony, HP, Compaq, and Actius just to name a few.

Funny how Steve Jobs proclaimed 2003 the year of the notebook as notebook computers were becoming more powerful, widescreens were being adopted, and upper level hardware was being implemented. The rest of the industry gets it and has being moving along swiftly, while Apple is still dragging the lackluster G4 to death in their PB line, let alone using the sub-par specs in their current notebook line.

So yeah, you have your portability. Good for you. But don't make it seem like a tradeoff because there is none. Don't even get me started on prices because that's another losing battle for Apple.
 

jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,819
41
Andover, MA
calyxman said:
Once again you mac zealots are blinded by your silly faith to Apple
People buy Macs for the OS. We deal with the hardware limitations to use a superior operating system. I also use high-end PC laptops, and I agree it's insane to argue that PBs are even remotely competitive from a hardware point of view (although they do have a number of nice features unavailable on any PC). Still, they run OS X, and PC laptops don't.

PBs run OS X just fine. Improvements will always be welcome, but, as a laptop, they work quite well.
 

Phat_Pat

macrumors 68000
May 8, 2004
1,955
0
I Live Where I Live
I hate to sound mean, but i'm sick of people expecting a laptop to campare with a desktop. You trade power and some of the luxurary items for the option of portability.

My G5 runs well over 120 degrees, for each processor. Do you really want that much heat on your lap...... or your... well you get it.

Don't want apple creating a sterile generation because they HAD to pack a G5 in a laptop... :rolleyes:
 

miloblithe

macrumors 68020
Nov 14, 2003
2,076
28
Washington, DC
I for one am glad Apple didn't stick to nightdweller's logic and cripple the eMacs just out of the principle of not making them better in any way than the powerbooks.

Each model has its own virtues and shouldn't have to fit into some perfectly conceieved scheme (which will never work any way because updates to the different lines are staggered).
 

Maedus

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2004
137
0
Indiana
calyxman said:
So yeah, you have your portability. Good for you. But don't make it seem like a tradeoff because there is none. Don't even get me started on prices because that's another losing battle for Apple.
I'd rather you had not started in the first place.

My reading of this forum.

Post 1: Heh.
Post 2: Ha! My thoughts exactly.
Post 3 - Post 10: Hehe, some funny jesting.
Post 11: LAME. Another person who just brings up mac zealot for no reason. Now my happy mood from reading funny jests at each other is befouled by somebody calling everybody names.

So yeah, thanks for nothing.
 

Maedus

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2004
137
0
Indiana
Phat_Pat said:
Don't want apple creating a sterile generation because they HAD to pack a G5 in a laptop... :rolleyes:
I wish we could "volunteer" people into becoming G5 laptop testers. :D
 

calyxman

macrumors 6502a
Apr 17, 2005
610
0
Phat_Pat said:
I hate to sound mean, but i'm sick of people expecting a laptop to campare with a desktop. You trade power and some of the luxurary items for the option of portability.

My G5 runs well over 120 degrees, for each processor. Do you really want that much heat on your lap...... or your... well you get it.

Don't want apple creating a sterile generation because they HAD to pack a G5 in a laptop... :rolleyes:
Wasn't it Steve Jobs the one who procaimed 2003 the year of the notebook? And lest we forget, did he have much to show besides a 17" screen and a superdrive for the powerbook line?

No one is saying they want the exact same raw performance as a desktop machine, but when you see the gap narrowing more and more in the PC market, one has to ask, WTF is Apple thinking? I wouldn't be suprised if we started seeing dual-core processors make it into some notebooks within the next year.

Also, the eMac has a G4. I can understand your point if we compared the iMac to the Powerbook, but we're talking an eMac for crying out loud.

People buy Macs for the OS. We deal with the hardware limitations to use a superior operating system. I also use high-end PC laptops, and I agree it's insane to argue that PBs are even remotely competitive from a hardware point of view (although they do have a number of nice features unavailable on any PC). Still, they run OS X, and PC laptops don't.

PBs run OS X just fine. Improvements will always be welcome, but, as a laptop, they work quite well.
It shouldn't be that way. I know you love the OS, so do I. But we shouldn't be short-handed in what's supposed to be Apple's professional line of notebook computers.

The fact is, a low-end consumer line desktop computer has superior specs to a high end professional notebook. And all that is because of portability? Sorry, but that's a lame excuse.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,889
25
Northern Virginia
jsw said:
People buy Macs for the OS. We deal with the hardware limitations to use a superior operating system. I also use high-end PC laptops, and I agree it's insane to argue that PBs are even remotely competitive from a hardware point of view (although they do have a number of nice features unavailable on any PC). Still, they run OS X, and PC laptops don't.

PBs run OS X just fine. Improvements will always be welcome, but, as a laptop, they work quite well.
And for a many user the G4 is just fine, thank you.

Yes, Apple should have a powerhouse laptop. Even more so now with Tiger and their emphasis on HD. Well, maybe by early next year. :)
 

hattey

macrumors newbie
May 2, 2005
13
0
calyxman said:
Once again you mac zealots are blinded by your silly faith to Apple and have to poo-poo nightdweller's point without stopping to think. It's sad to see how people rationalize a missing feature in a supposedly top-of-the-line notebook. Go look at other notebook manufacturers and you'll find many supporting dual-layer dvd drives along with other superior hardware specs. Sony, HP, Compaq, and Actius just to name a few.

Funny how Steve Jobs proclaimed 2003 the year of the notebook as notebook computers were becoming more powerful, widescreens were being adopted, and upper level hardware was being implemented. The rest of the industry gets it and has being moving along swiftly, while Apple is still dragging the lackluster G4 to death in their PB line, let alone using the sub-par specs in their current notebook line.

So yeah, you have your portability. Good for you. But don't make it seem like a tradeoff because there is none. Don't even get me started on prices because that's another losing battle for Apple.
funny that a win-head would be lurking in a mac forum just for the oppurtunity to attempt and burt the apple bubble.
There are win-based computers that are offering new technology like dual layer, but they are also thicker than an inch, weigh more than a 17" powerbook, and dont look nearly as good.

The powerbook may be in need of a tune up, but apple is playing it smart by not taking a premature step and going in the wrong direction. Wait for a chip that wont make the powerbook bigger, wait for the need for something fast, right now the chips are quite fast.

So what if an eMac is faster and cheaper. It is also a [expletive deleted] CRT monitor that looks like the biproduct of apple's rekindling in the 90's (which it is)

i think apple is doing the right thing

-Hattey
20" iMac G5, 12" Powerbook G4, all the goodies to make the two computers happy
 

nightdweller25

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 2, 2005
421
0
Whoa...

I really should explain myself better. I don't mean i expect it to be a dual G5 with 4 gigs of ram and a terabyte of storage. I just expected more from the so-called "professional" line-up. Like atleast a 9600 on the 12-inch (15 and 17 -inch are fine) and a dual-layer superdrive considering the low end consumer mac has this.
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
4
nightdweller25 said:
I really should explain myself better. I don't mean i expect it to be a dual G5 with 4 gigs of ram and a terabyte of storage. I just expected more from the so-called "professional" line-up. Like atleast a 9600 on the 12-inch (15 and 17 -inch are fine) and a dual-layer superdrive considering the low end consumer mac has this.
well i think those are realistic expectations for the next revisions, the eMac and iMacs have the benefit of just having an update today..... in a few months the Powerbooks will be much better i think
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,889
25
Northern Virginia
calyxman said:
The fact is, a low-end consumer line desktop computer has superior specs to a high end professional notebook. And all that is because of portability? Sorry, but that's a lame excuse.
If you have some magic bullet that would allow Steve to deliver the performance in the size of the current PB's; I think he would love to hear from you.

If you look at the situation in general, Apple is hamstrung by IBM and their ability to make the PPC's equal in performance to the Intel and AMD offerings. I for one would not mind buying an Apple PB that was based on the Intel/AMD chips.

I don't support the idea of OS X on an open Intel/AMD platform. This is what is causing many Wintel users their headaches. Apple's success in a stable, reliable platform is their controlling the hardware side. At the same point I look at the pricing of some Wintel systems (my co-worker just bought a Gateway from Best Buy with specs that would make the Mac mini shrink to 25% of of its current size - for just $300 more than the Mac mini).

There is no way that I would buy another Wintel machine, till Bill gets his head out of the sand and closes all the loopholes that causes users to reinstall their OS on a regular basis.
 

mcgarry

macrumors 6502a
Oct 19, 2004
616
0
calyxman said:
Wasn't it Steve Jobs the one who procaimed 2003 the year of the notebook? And lest we forget, did he have much to show besides a 17" screen and a superdrive for the powerbook line?
Yeah, 2-and-a-half years ago, Apple introduced the world's first 17" laptop, at 1" thick, with built-in DVD/CD-burning, BT, FW800, and 802.11g. Yeah, that really sucked... Oh wait, maybe I'm just another craaaaazy zealot.

calyxman said:
No one is saying they want the exact same raw performance as a desktop machine, but when you see the gap narrowing more and more in the PC market, one has to ask, WTF is Apple thinking? I wouldn't be suprised if we started seeing dual-core processors make it into some notebooks within the next year.
Wait ... I'm confused ... are you saying PC laptops have less of a gap now (which means I assume you are counting the XPS-style behemoths, which is a product line Apple doesn't do at the moment, so it's hard to make a direct comparions, but ...)? Or are you saying this gap will be even less meaningful "within the next year"? If the former, please show what you mean ... and if what you mean is that Apple makes something like the zd7000, I hope you realize what you're asking for. Apple could probably make a laptop that thick, heavy, battery-weak, and hot, but they have chosen to keep their portables a little more ... how shall we say, portable. I'm not saying that's the best decision, but hey no one's forcing anyone to buy a thin Apple laptop if that's not what they want. Or you are talking about the more portable, quad-pumped P-M laptops and such. You might have a better point there, but in my limited, personal, unscientfific experience, the PBs hang with them just fine. On the other hand, if you meant the latter ("within the next year"), do you really think Apple's laptops will have not advanced at all within the next few months-year? I don't really see your point, there.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,889
25
Northern Virginia
PlaceofDis said:
well i think those are realistic expectations for the next revisions, the eMac and iMacs have the benefit of just having an update today..... in a few months the Powerbooks will be much better i think
If anything it shows that Apple needs to do better at road mapping their product line. They may not be able to do what the Wintel folks do, updating systems on a whim. And there would be cries from the Mac faithful if they did. I just have to look at comments that Apple should update the Mac mini with a better video card with the intro of Tiger. Many seemed to want to burn me at the stake for even suggesting that Apple update a system after just 4 to 5 months. But this is exactly what the Wintel people do.

the consumer is drawn to specs and price. Apple seems to have hit the pice right. The specs seem to lag behind a bit. IMO, given the emphasis on the Core Image technology in Tiger, Apple would have been well served by doing an update on all systems on the day of the Tiger release - so that ALL systems sold would be able to take advantage of the newer technology offered.
 

sigamy

macrumors 65816
Mar 7, 2003
1,300
2
NJ USA
calyxman said:
Once again you mac zealots are blinded by your silly faith to Apple and have to poo-poo nightdweller's point without stopping to think. It's sad to see how people rationalize a missing feature in a supposedly top-of-the-line notebook. Go look at other notebook manufacturers and you'll find many supporting dual-layer dvd drives along with other superior hardware specs. Sony, HP, Compaq, and Actius just to name a few.

Funny how Steve Jobs proclaimed 2003 the year of the notebook as notebook computers were becoming more powerful, widescreens were being adopted, and upper level hardware was being implemented. The rest of the industry gets it and has being moving along swiftly, while Apple is still dragging the lackluster G4 to death in their PB line, let alone using the sub-par specs in their current notebook line.

So yeah, you have your portability. Good for you. But don't make it seem like a tradeoff because there is none. Don't even get me started on prices because that's another losing battle for Apple.
Well, size matters. Apple doesn't want to design/build a huge laptop and they know their target market doesn't want one. Your HP is 7.97 lbs and 1.8" to 1.88" thick.

The 15" powerbook is 1.1" thick and 5.6 lbs.

And don't even get me started on the OS yours runs because that's another losing battle for your HP.

Enjoy your HP vz6000 (nice name btw).