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WWDC 2003 Rumor Roundup (970s, PowerBooks, Panther, etc...)
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-hh
macrumors 68030
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: WWDC 2003 Rumor Roundup (970s, PowerBooks, Panther, etc...)
I also expect Panther to be Backwards-compatible. Question is: how broadly do you need to test that the installer will default to preexisting (and thus, debugged) 32bit codes? Overall, it reminds me of the FAT binaries days of Apple's 68K to RISK conversion (circa OS 7 or 8; I forget).
I've also done a quick/dirty search for what Panther is supposed to be featuring, and a definitive list seems somewhat elusive. Anyone have a nice, solid list?
What I was able to find was that Panther's main items appear to be 64 bit addressing and overall speed (including mention of boot-up), plus a vague description of "user-centric capabilities".
On this last one, I recall that there were some features that we had previously heard as rumored for Jaguar, but which didn't pan out at that time. If work continued on them, we probably would have been perceived as Jaguar work, not Panther.
That's for sure.
-hh
Headlines I'd like to see:
"Microsoft's Longhorn suffers Mad Cow Disease"
I also expect Panther to be Backwards-compatible. Question is: how broadly do you need to test that the installer will default to preexisting (and thus, debugged) 32bit codes? Overall, it reminds me of the FAT binaries days of Apple's 68K to RISK conversion (circa OS 7 or 8; I forget).
I've also done a quick/dirty search for what Panther is supposed to be featuring, and a definitive list seems somewhat elusive. Anyone have a nice, solid list?
What I was able to find was that Panther's main items appear to be 64 bit addressing and overall speed (including mention of boot-up), plus a vague description of "user-centric capabilities".
On this last one, I recall that there were some features that we had previously heard as rumored for Jaguar, but which didn't pan out at that time. If work continued on them, we probably would have been perceived as Jaguar work, not Panther.
That's for sure.
-hh
Headlines I'd like to see:
"Microsoft's Longhorn suffers Mad Cow Disease"
IBM Partnership > 970 announcement
An announcement of a partnership between Apple and IBM would be the biggest news out of WWDC ~ far overshadowing any new chip for Apple.
A partnership would allow Apple to provide OSX server for IBM's big iron.
With the M$FT sponsored FUD surrounding Linux and the SCO Billion dollar lawsuit against IBM it would seem that the battle has been joined, Will.
Darwin support from IBM would seem a logical way to sidestep all the contriversy surrounding Linux these days (and for the rest of the decade if M$ has it's way).
An Apple / IBM partnership would be a great counter to the Wintel duopoly that controls 90% of the desktop market.
IBM couldn't care less about the desktop, but when Intel began to invade the high end server market with M$FT's help, it demanded a response from IBM.
The 970 is part of that response. A strategic alliance with Apple might be a part of IBM's plan to unseat Wintel's foray into IBM's turf.
Aphelion ...
An announcement of a partnership between Apple and IBM would be the biggest news out of WWDC ~ far overshadowing any new chip for Apple.
A partnership would allow Apple to provide OSX server for IBM's big iron.
With the M$FT sponsored FUD surrounding Linux and the SCO Billion dollar lawsuit against IBM it would seem that the battle has been joined, Will.
Darwin support from IBM would seem a logical way to sidestep all the contriversy surrounding Linux these days (and for the rest of the decade if M$ has it's way).
An Apple / IBM partnership would be a great counter to the Wintel duopoly that controls 90% of the desktop market.
IBM couldn't care less about the desktop, but when Intel began to invade the high end server market with M$FT's help, it demanded a response from IBM.
The 970 is part of that response. A strategic alliance with Apple might be a part of IBM's plan to unseat Wintel's foray into IBM's turf.
Aphelion ...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: WWDC 2003 Rumor Roundup (970s, PowerBooks, Panther, etc...)
I seem to recall reading that Apple will give developers at WWDC a copy of the Panther beta. If Panther only runs on the 970, they better give us a 970 too. 😀
I seem to recall reading that Apple will give developers at WWDC a copy of the Panther beta. If Panther only runs on the 970, they better give us a 970 too. 😀
Re: IBM Partnership > 970 announcement
Um, hey, step outta that cave! Apple and IBM have had an ongoing partnership for ... what? A decade?
Think AIM, think Taligent, think PPC to begin with!
A partnership expanded in the ways you describe might be nice, but I see no indications of that yet. Just IBM stepping in, as they have before, as the high-end chip supplier ... and maybe Moto dropping out of the alliance altogether, which is bad news no matter which way you cut it.
Um, hey, step outta that cave! Apple and IBM have had an ongoing partnership for ... what? A decade?
Think AIM, think Taligent, think PPC to begin with!
A partnership expanded in the ways you describe might be nice, but I see no indications of that yet. Just IBM stepping in, as they have before, as the high-end chip supplier ... and maybe Moto dropping out of the alliance altogether, which is bad news no matter which way you cut it.
GeeYouEye
macrumors 68000
Y'know what would be absolutely hilarious? Steve gets up on stage and announces the Motorola 8500 "G5" running at 1.8, 2.2, and 5GHz (this is some of the REALLY old G5 rumors).
But in all seriousness... My question is: why haven't we seen more out of ThinkSecret this time around? I mean, sure, they had that iChat stuff, but they had an almost-spot on prediction for MWSF
But in all seriousness... My question is: why haven't we seen more out of ThinkSecret this time around? I mean, sure, they had that iChat stuff, but they had an almost-spot on prediction for MWSF
IBM Partnership
Apple and IBM working together seems like a good thing to give Apple some much needed credibility in Business accounts.
Obviously they have a relationship as they did in the now defunct AIM alliance, but what I am talking about is a public announcement of a partnership that goes far beyond what AIM did.
Possibly even some investment in AAPL and joint projects (Darwin?), not to mention adding OSX server support to their server lines.
Apple and IBM working together seems like a good thing to give Apple some much needed credibility in Business accounts.
Obviously they have a relationship as they did in the now defunct AIM alliance, but what I am talking about is a public announcement of a partnership that goes far beyond what AIM did.
Possibly even some investment in AAPL and joint projects (Darwin?), not to mention adding OSX server support to their server lines.
Re: IBM Partnership > 970 announcement
When people have repeatedly said this in the past, I have never understood what is in it for IBM. IBM is pushing Linux as a server operating system across the whole spectrum of its server line-up.
If I were IBM, what would be the benefit to me of running Mac OS X on my POWER/PowerPC-based servers? They are already running AIX, which is a better server OS and Mac OS X cannot run on the Intel servers or mainframe lines.
Linux makes sense to IBM because it is the one OS that can run across its complete server line and its price is right. Mac OS X doesn't seem to have any appealing qualities to IBM for its own product line. It doesn't even make sense to put it on the POWER/PowerPC servers because there already exists a better product from IBM.
When people have repeatedly said this in the past, I have never understood what is in it for IBM. IBM is pushing Linux as a server operating system across the whole spectrum of its server line-up.
If I were IBM, what would be the benefit to me of running Mac OS X on my POWER/PowerPC-based servers? They are already running AIX, which is a better server OS and Mac OS X cannot run on the Intel servers or mainframe lines.
Linux makes sense to IBM because it is the one OS that can run across its complete server line and its price is right. Mac OS X doesn't seem to have any appealing qualities to IBM for its own product line. It doesn't even make sense to put it on the POWER/PowerPC servers because there already exists a better product from IBM.
See you in September....
My prediction: Panther available in September. 🙁
970 Macs available end of July or early August. 🙁
It'll be a tease until then. I hope I'm wrong.
My prediction: Panther available in September. 🙁
970 Macs available end of July or early August. 🙁
It'll be a tease until then. I hope I'm wrong.
Sun Baked
macrumors G5
The Rumors, the journey they have taken the last six months has been quite interesting while people have been trying to figure out the odd rumblings (or weird decisions from Apple marketing) and see where Apple is taking us.
Some of these rumors have even played havoc with Apple's stock...
Sort of fun to see people say, Apple's doing this because that's what I dreamed, heard at a bar, imagined, etc. even when some of the dreams, directions, and drunk boastings may be contrary to the current direction Apple Marketing seems to be taking, or Apple's past history with regard to "newly introduced" hardware.
But then again, Steve Jobs has always been an expensive and passionate corporate officer when it comes to his vision -- and those that steal his thunder.
At least the AMD Opteron/Athalon-64 rumors seemed to have died. 😉
Some of these rumors have even played havoc with Apple's stock...
Sort of fun to see people say, Apple's doing this because that's what I dreamed, heard at a bar, imagined, etc. even when some of the dreams, directions, and drunk boastings may be contrary to the current direction Apple Marketing seems to be taking, or Apple's past history with regard to "newly introduced" hardware.
But then again, Steve Jobs has always been an expensive and passionate corporate officer when it comes to his vision -- and those that steal his thunder.
At least the AMD Opteron/Athalon-64 rumors seemed to have died. 😉
Berlin event invitation on macbidouille
Have you seen the scan of the invitation for the apple event in Berlin on August 23?
(http://www.macbidouille.com/news/photonews14/bild.jpg,
http://www.macbidouille.com/news/photonews14/bild2.jpg)
The german text (roughly) says:
-------------------------------------------
Discover the future with Apple
Apple Germany invites you to a breathtaking event at the heart of Europe.
See a satellite broadcast of Steve Jobs' keynote at the WWDC in San Francisco.
This will be an unforgettable event for audio, video, publishing and media professionals. News are waiting for you that will surpass all your expectations for speed.
Be ready for a new age of computing on August 23rd, starting at 18:00h at the Adlon Palais, Hotel Adlon Berlin, Unter den Linden 77.
-----------------------------------
Looks like 970-based PowerMacs are not totally out of question...
Have you seen the scan of the invitation for the apple event in Berlin on August 23?
(http://www.macbidouille.com/news/photonews14/bild.jpg,
http://www.macbidouille.com/news/photonews14/bild2.jpg)
The german text (roughly) says:
-------------------------------------------
Discover the future with Apple
Apple Germany invites you to a breathtaking event at the heart of Europe.
See a satellite broadcast of Steve Jobs' keynote at the WWDC in San Francisco.
This will be an unforgettable event for audio, video, publishing and media professionals. News are waiting for you that will surpass all your expectations for speed.
Be ready for a new age of computing on August 23rd, starting at 18:00h at the Adlon Palais, Hotel Adlon Berlin, Unter den Linden 77.
-----------------------------------
Looks like 970-based PowerMacs are not totally out of question...
Windowlicker
macrumors 6502a
IBMApple
Found this article from slashdot.org:
SCO Terminates IBM's Unix License
Posted by CmdrTaco on Monday June 16, @04:29PM
from the lets-get-ready-to-rumble dept.
AKAImBatman writes "SCO has terminated IBM's license to use Unix code. SCO is filing for an injunction that will require IBM to cease all sale of AIX as well as accrue damages for each day IBM continues to sell AIX."
Now IBM using OSX on their servers might seem a bit more reasonable, but I still doubt it..
Found this article from slashdot.org:
SCO Terminates IBM's Unix License
Posted by CmdrTaco on Monday June 16, @04:29PM
from the lets-get-ready-to-rumble dept.
AKAImBatman writes "SCO has terminated IBM's license to use Unix code. SCO is filing for an injunction that will require IBM to cease all sale of AIX as well as accrue damages for each day IBM continues to sell AIX."
Now IBM using OSX on their servers might seem a bit more reasonable, but I still doubt it..
Re: IBMApple
Not likely. Mac OS X is so far behind AIX in terms of industry support that if a court grants this injunction basically IBM has to fork over the money to solve the problem.
People have to remember that there is a vast difference in terms of capability and support between running Web, file and print servers on your G4 and Xserve and running enterprise applications and databases on your 32 POWER4+ processor p690.
Linux solves IBMs problem for the first class of users better than Mac OS X and Mac OS X cannot serve the second class of users at all.
Not likely. Mac OS X is so far behind AIX in terms of industry support that if a court grants this injunction basically IBM has to fork over the money to solve the problem.
People have to remember that there is a vast difference in terms of capability and support between running Web, file and print servers on your G4 and Xserve and running enterprise applications and databases on your 32 POWER4+ processor p690.
Linux solves IBMs problem for the first class of users better than Mac OS X and Mac OS X cannot serve the second class of users at all.
NNO-Stephen
macrumors 6502
Re: See you in September....
i agree... except I think immediate availibility of at least the low end PowerMacs, with the high end ones shipping in july or august and Panther in September. I also say new pro mouse and pro keyboard.
new displays a possibility and shipping in limited quantity with high end powermacs in july or august. I say a single processor 1.4Ghz 970, and dual 1.6 and 1.8Ghz models shipping in july or august... maybe 1.6 a single and shipping with the 1.4Ghz. all in limited quantities right now. anyway, that's my picks.
i agree... except I think immediate availibility of at least the low end PowerMacs, with the high end ones shipping in july or august and Panther in September. I also say new pro mouse and pro keyboard.
new displays a possibility and shipping in limited quantity with high end powermacs in july or august. I say a single processor 1.4Ghz 970, and dual 1.6 and 1.8Ghz models shipping in july or august... maybe 1.6 a single and shipping with the 1.4Ghz. all in limited quantities right now. anyway, that's my picks.
Re: you're banned - rational thinking not permitted
😀
Thanks, that's funny.
But seriously, I am not questioning the wisdom of Steve Jobs. He seems to have a pretty good handle on how far behind his company is in the server space.
I am questioning the understanding of the zealots who think Mac OS X is the greatest thing since sliced bread for all tasks that a computer does.
I just cannot understand why Mac OS X would be attractive to IBM. I just do not see where it brings more to the table than a solution they already have. SCO "cancelling" IBM's UNIX license doesn't mean a thing if they cannot get the permanent injunction in court. If SCO does get the permanent injunction, then basically IBM has to fork over whatever money is required to make this go away.
😀
Thanks, that's funny.
But seriously, I am not questioning the wisdom of Steve Jobs. He seems to have a pretty good handle on how far behind his company is in the server space.
I am questioning the understanding of the zealots who think Mac OS X is the greatest thing since sliced bread for all tasks that a computer does.
I just cannot understand why Mac OS X would be attractive to IBM. I just do not see where it brings more to the table than a solution they already have. SCO "cancelling" IBM's UNIX license doesn't mean a thing if they cannot get the permanent injunction in court. If SCO does get the permanent injunction, then basically IBM has to fork over whatever money is required to make this go away.
conspiracy theorist
The appeal of OSX over Linux, rather than AIX, is for the applications that already run on it, as part of creating a seamless integration from high-end servers to the desktop. All OSX needs is porting some of the UNIX/LINUX applications over, which WE ALREADY KNOW they are doing (thinksecret, and MS hater Ellison's Oracle), and the ability to run on INTEL, which WE ALREADY KNOW apple has been working on, and we know that NEXT already did. So what OSX (with or without AIX) offers is a complete and elegant solution, filling in what is really a very sparse desktop offering for Linux. Don't you all think, that between all the MS haters in the world, McNeally, Ellison, whom we already know hang out together, that these guys don't have a plan to gang up and try and take back the space from Microsoft?
The appeal of OSX over Linux, rather than AIX, is for the applications that already run on it, as part of creating a seamless integration from high-end servers to the desktop. All OSX needs is porting some of the UNIX/LINUX applications over, which WE ALREADY KNOW they are doing (thinksecret, and MS hater Ellison's Oracle), and the ability to run on INTEL, which WE ALREADY KNOW apple has been working on, and we know that NEXT already did. So what OSX (with or without AIX) offers is a complete and elegant solution, filling in what is really a very sparse desktop offering for Linux. Don't you all think, that between all the MS haters in the world, McNeally, Ellison, whom we already know hang out together, that these guys don't have a plan to gang up and try and take back the space from Microsoft?
IBM would not replace it's AIX Unix or Linux offerings with OSX. OSX Server (and support) would be offered as an option to interested customers.
This would allow IBM to sell more of it's own 970 chips into accounts that like the idea of Apple's freeBSD foundation, as well as the end-to-end solution that the previous poster alluded to.
As an example, would Weta, Ltd. - a major Shake user (Lord of the Rings) have liked to had the option of using 970 based blades running OSX or Darwin in their 5 million recent IBM purchase?
Aphelion ...
This would allow IBM to sell more of it's own 970 chips into accounts that like the idea of Apple's freeBSD foundation, as well as the end-to-end solution that the previous poster alluded to.
As an example, would Weta, Ltd. - a major Shake user (Lord of the Rings) have liked to had the option of using 970 based blades running OSX or Darwin in their 5 million recent IBM purchase?
Aphelion ...
leicaman
macrumors 6502
Re: Re: IBMApple
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Have you heard of the iTunes Music Store? Running on XServe and OS X Server.
Of course, the big iron running on AIX with real Power4 processors is the high end.
We'll see what happens if some court is stupid enough to side with SCO. Then let's see how a lot of UNIX shops treat Macs.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Have you heard of the iTunes Music Store? Running on XServe and OS X Server.
Of course, the big iron running on AIX with real Power4 processors is the high end.
We'll see what happens if some court is stupid enough to side with SCO. Then let's see how a lot of UNIX shops treat Macs.
Re: Re: Re: IBMApple
From your characterization, I understand the enterprise and high end market better than you do.
The iTMS application is basically a Web front end to a file server. I never said that Mac OS X could not perform those applications, only that Linux can do the same thing and it is already working. An example is Amazon.com, which is significantly larger, and has said they switched to Linux.
Of course Apple will use their own equipment, it would be stupid not to. But that does not mean it is the best solution to the problem.
Here is my definition of what Mac OS X would need in order to play with the big boys in the enterprise market. As you can see, Mac OS X has almost none of these qualities now (although many are rumored to be in development):
Running a Web server on a cluster of Xserves with some storage space on the back is no big deal. Pretty much all of the OSes have been able to do that for a couple of years.
From your characterization, I understand the enterprise and high end market better than you do.
The iTMS application is basically a Web front end to a file server. I never said that Mac OS X could not perform those applications, only that Linux can do the same thing and it is already working. An example is Amazon.com, which is significantly larger, and has said they switched to Linux.
Of course Apple will use their own equipment, it would be stupid not to. But that does not mean it is the best solution to the problem.
Here is my definition of what Mac OS X would need in order to play with the big boys in the enterprise market. As you can see, Mac OS X has almost none of these qualities now (although many are rumored to be in development):
- Support for more than 8 processors
- Support for more than 4GB of memory
- Support for more than 2TB of storage
- Support for attached storage via a SAN
- Official support for a journaling file system
- Support for large tape libraries such as those from StorageTek
- Support for enterprise class backup software that runs on all server platforms (i.e. not Retrospect)
- Production support for either Oracle Enterprise or DB/2
- Application vendor support by someone such as SAP, Oracle, PeopleSoft, etc.
Running a Web server on a cluster of Xserves with some storage space on the back is no big deal. Pretty much all of the OSes have been able to do that for a couple of years.