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WWDC 2006 Expectations

Strange.

Hm. Hey guys... I'm a longtime reader of MR. I always read your comments and never recall posting (Creepy, eh?)

Anyway apparently I once made an account although I don't remember.

None the less... I'm surprised at how much doubt there is about Core 2 Duos. Apple and Intel are more or less best buddies. You honestly expect Apple to not update their lineup? You don't think people will go... Hmm... Core Duo Macbook Pro... Or... Core 2 Duo Dell. Even a moron will say "2's better than 1!" Apple is KNOWN for having top of the line systems in their respective class, and now that that class is Intel processors, I have 0 doubt that Apple will introduce Core 2 Duos in it's Macbook Pros as soon as it can. The reason I say Macbook Pros is because I'm sure that Macbooks and Mac Minis will say with the Core Duos. Why? Apple needs to better differentiate their pro line from their consumer line, because right now there is not much difference between the Macbook and Macbook Pro, performance-wise (Yes I know Integrated Video, Glossy Screen, etc.) but Proc. to Proc., Almost no difference.

As for "Meroms in iMacs..." Maybe, but I doubt it. Not SOON at least. Conroes then? You guys are forgetting... Apple doesn't NEED to use it. Just because it's AVAILABLE means almost nothing. Why would they use Conroe when they simply don't need to. I don't think we'll see Conroes at all in Macs quite honestly, and I don't see any problem with that. Maybe in Intel-based Power Macs, but there's ALOT of speculation about that.
 
Nope - All Core 2 Duo By Thanksgiving

azilnik said:
Hm. Hey guys... I'm a longtime reader of MR. I always read your comments and never recall posting (Creepy, eh?)

Anyway apparently I once made an account although I don't remember.

None the less... I'm surprised at how much doubt there is about Core 2 Duos. Apple and Intel are more or less best buddies. You honestly expect Apple to not update their lineup? You don't think people will go... Hmm... Core Duo Macbook Pro... Or... Core 2 Duo Dell. Even a moron will say "2's better than 1!" Apple is KNOWN for having top of the line systems in their respective class, and now that that class is Intel processors, I have 0 doubt that Apple will introduce Core 2 Duos in it's Macbook Pros as soon as it can. The reason I say Macbook Pros is because I'm sure that Macbooks and Mac Minis will say with the Core Duos. Why? Apple needs to better differentiate their pro line from their consumer line, because right now there is not much difference between the Macbook and Macbook Pro, performance-wise (Yes I know Integrated Video, Glossy Screen, etc.) but Proc. to Proc., Almost no difference.

As for "Meroms in iMacs..." Maybe, but I doubt it. Not SOON at least. Conroes then? You guys are forgetting... Apple doesn't NEED to use it. Just because it's AVAILABLE means almost nothing. Why would they use Conroe when they simply don't need to. I don't think we'll see Conroes at all in Macs quite honestly, and I don't see any problem with that. Maybe in Intel-based Power Macs, but there's ALOT of speculation about that.
Click to expand...
Nope. The entire line will be Core 2 Duo by Thanksgiving. MBP will get speed bump to 2.33GHz for further differentiation while MB will remain 2GHz. No logic to keep buying Core Duo processors for the same money as Core 2 or less than they bought Yonah to begin with. They are already making record profits. I doubt they will deliberately cripple mini, iMac and MB when everything is selling like hot cakes anyway. There are plenty of other ways each line differentiates from the other. To leave any line in Core Duo would be outright greedy and I dont' see Apple as having that personality trait.

I fugure it's a 50-50 chance Steve tells the developers next week they can start thinking about 64-bit optimization due to the Core 2 shift that will be complete this year.
 
Multimedia said:
Nope. The entire line will be Core 2 Duo by Thanksgiving. MBP will get speed bump to 2.33GHz for further differentiation while MB will remain 2GHz. No logic to keep buying Core Duo processors for the same money as Core 2 or less than they bought Yonah to begin with. They are already making record profits. I doubt they will deliberately cripple mini, iMac and MB when everything is selling like hot cakes anyway. There are plenty of other ways each line differentiates from the other. To leave any line in Core Duo would be outright greedy and I dont' see Apple as having that personality trait.

I fugure it's a 50-50 chance Steve tells the developers next week they can start thinking about 64-bit optimization due to the Core 2 shift that will be complete this year.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I see your point and quite frankly I agree, I do however believe that Apple will announce it because the chips are definately out and running, Apple wants to stay ABOVE cutting edge, so why wouldn't they announce the chips?
 
Ideally Monday Will Mark The Total Full Line Shift To Core 2 Immediately

azilnik said:
Interesting. I see your point and quite frankly I agree, I do however believe that Apple will announce it because the chips are definately out and running, Apple wants to stay ABOVE cutting edge, so why wouldn't they announce the chips?
Click to expand...
Yeah, what would be the best thing Steve could do Monday is to announce an across the board shift to Core 2 immediately. I don't have the courage to predict this will happen. But it would be the coolest thing in a long time if it does. 😎

I agree with you it would make the most sense to just do it all at once instead of incrementally - esp since it's only FIVE MONTHS 'til the January 9 SF MacWorld SteveNote where the OctoCore Mac Pro will likely be added above the Quad - maybe even the Leopard release.
 
Multimedia said:
Nope. The entire line will be Core 2 Duo by Thanksgiving. MBP will get speed bump to 2.33GHz for further differentiation while MB will remain 2GHz. No logic to keep buying Core Duo processors for the same money as Core 2 or less than they bought Yonah to begin with. They are already making record profits. I doubt they will deliberately cripple mini, iMac and MB when everything is selling like hot cakes anyway. There are plenty of other ways each line differentiates from the other. To leave any line in Core Duo would be outright greedy and I dont' see Apple as having that personality trait.

I fugure it's a 50-50 chance Steve tells the developers next week they can start thinking about 64-bit optimization due to the Core 2 shift that will be complete this year.
Click to expand...

you act like the Core Duo (Yonah) is terribly slower than Core 2 Duo (Merom), but benchmarks have showed that they are very similar in performance. i don't see the big deal about upgrading all of them now, when the current chip has plenty of power
 
Merom Core 2 Duo Delivers Much Longer Battery Life

twoodcc said:
you act like the Core Duo (Yonah) is terribly slower than Core 2 Duo (Merom), but benchmarks have showed that they are very similar in performance. i don't see the big deal about upgrading all of them now, when the current chip has plenty of power
Click to expand...
Sorry. That was not the intent of my meaning. I agree with you. But now that Core 2 are shipping, the 64-bit character of this new generation of processors will in the long term make a difference in the OS as well as in the Pro apps. There are also large energy management differences between Yonah and Merom giving the portables noticably longer battery life immediately.
 
Multimedia said:
Sorry. That was not the intent of my meaning. I agree with you. But now that Core 2 are shipping, the 64-bit character of this new generation of processors will in the long term make a difference in the OS as well as in the Pro apps. There are also large energy management differences between Yonah and Merom giving the portables noticably longer battery life immediately.
Click to expand...

well i agree that 64-bit is something, but considering you can't put more than 4 GB of RAM in a Macbook now anyways, it's not going to help that much.(i know i'm just using the Macbook as an example) and by the time you need 64-bit because of software, it'll probably be time for a new computer anyways.....right?
 
Every Yonah Mac Is Now On The Refurb Page

twoodcc said:
well i agree that 64-bit is something, but considering you can't put more than 4 GB of RAM in a Macbook now anyways, it's not going to help that much.(i know i'm just using the Macbook as an example) and by the time you need 64-bit because of software, it'll probably be time for a new computer anyways.....right?
Click to expand...
Merom:

Almost Twice the Battery life - 1.67 x
Twice the L2 cache - 4MB
20% more calculations at same speed.
Same price as Yonah.

Why not have these improvements ASAP? If you want to buy a Yonah Mac for less, just go to the refurb page. They are all there. If not, the one you want will come back soon. I monitor that page regularly and everything is in the refurb cycle now including most recently the 17" MBP.
 
12 hour battery?

Multimedia said:
Merom:

Twice the Battery life.
Twice the L2 cache - 4MB
20% more calculations at same speed.
Same price as Yonah.

Why not have these improvements ASAP? If you want to buy a Yonah Mac for less, just go to the refurb page. They are all there. If not, the one you want will come back soon. I monitor that page regularly and everything is in the refurb cycle now.
Click to expand...

are you trying to tell me that with Merom a macbook will get 12 hours on the same battery?

maybe 20% better, but the real-world benchmarks show that 20% is not much at all, if anything.

i'm not saying i don't want Merom, but i just don't see the big thing that Apple needs to instantly put Merom in everything that it sells that use a mobile processor.
 
SF to NY Yonah Battery Died Over Chicago, Merom Made It To NY

treblah said:
You have said this before and it is TOTALLY WRONG if you are comparing the Merom to Yonah. The first slide is directly from Intel's Spring Developer Conference. Consistent battery does not mean 2X.
Click to expand...
There is this field report on CNET. This is not info from a SLIDE. It is from a real world field test.

Video: Long-lasting Intel Core 2 Duo notebooks

Over 5 hours of battery life with Merom vs. 3 hours with Yonah. 1.67 X or ALMOST Twice.

To New York on Airplane from San Francisco, Yonah PC battery died over Illinois while same size Merom PC battery made it all the way to New York City with power to spare. So I am RIGHT NOT WRONG. You are uninformed. 😱
 

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Multimedia said:
There is a field report I can't find the link now. From New York on Airplane, Yonah PC battery died over Chicago while same size Merom PC battery made it all the way to LA. So I am RIGHT NOT WRONG. 😱
Click to expand...

Wow, measuring battery life by cities. Sounds amazingly scientific. I'm gonna say "You're wrong" just because you cited such a field report. That's disgraceful... 😱
 
Multimedia said:
There is this field report on CNET. This is not info from a SLIDE. It is from a real world field test.

Video: Long-lasting Intel Core 2 Duo notebooks

Over 5 hours of battery life with Merom vs. 3 hours with Yonah.

From New York on Airplane, Yonah PC battery died over Chicago while same size Merom PC battery made it all the way to LA. So I am RIGHT NOT WRONG. 😱
Click to expand...

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/intel/intel-core-2-duo-laptops-last-5-hours-in-cross-country-flight-191002.php

Flying West to East means leaving SF and arriving in NYC. 🙄

Please tell me I'm wrong again.
 
Two reporters sitting next to each other with same Notebooks Except For The Processor

Chundles said:
Wow, measuring battery life by cities. Sounds amazingly scientific. I'm gonna say "You're wrong" just because you cited such a field report. That's disgraceful... 😱
Click to expand...
Two reporters sitting next to each other with same Notebooks Except For The Processor. Doing the same things. One makes it to 3 hours while the other makes it to 5 hours. Did you watch the video on my revised post with the link to it? These guys were at the Core 2 Duo launch last week. You gonna call them liars?

What's with all the anti Core 2 hostility here?
 
Multimedia said:
You gonna call them liars?
Click to expand...

Yeah, why not. They're liars.

And the Core 2 processor is a bad processor, it's got "2" in the name and sequels always suck.

To be honest MM, time you took a chill pill and had a nice lie-down.
 
Got My Geography Backwards - Still 40% More Battery Life With Merom

treblah said:
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/intel/intel-core-2-duo-laptops-last-5-hours-in-cross-country-flight-191002.php

Flying West to East means leaving SF and arriving in NYC. 🙄

Please tell me I'm wrong again.
Click to expand...
So I'm Geographically dyslexic. Are you seriously gonna give me a hard time because I got the direction backwards?

3 hours Yonah
5+ hours Merom

Much better frame rates in games. Why are you beating me up over symantics? Why do you not want to be happy this is true? 😕 😱
 
Multimedia said:
Two reporters sitting next to each other with same Notebooks Except For The Processor. Doing the same things. One makes it to 3 hours while the other makes it to 5 hours. Did you watch the video on my revised post with the link to it? These guys were at the Core 2 Duo launch last week. You gonna call them liars?

What's with all the anti Core 2 hostility here?
Click to expand...

Jesus christ, did you even watch the video? They were not reporters they were Intel staffers. He even says that the CoreDuo lasted 3 hours, not your claimed 2. This isn't scientific AT ALL and I would much rather believe Intel engineers who presented the info at IDF than some random marketing drivel with absolutely no information provided on the hardware/software. 🙄

Now stop claiming that dropping a Merom in a MB/MBP is going to result in two times the battery life. That is not true. And if you think it is I will make a bet with you right now.

I'm not anti Core2Duo, I'm anti disinformation.
 
1.67 x Battery Life With Merom

treblah said:
Jesus christ, did you even watch the video? They were not reporters they were Intel staffers. He even says that the CoreDuo lasted 3 hours, not your claimed 2. This isn't scientific AT ALL and I would much rather believe Intel engineers who presented the info at IDF than some random marketing drivel with absolutely no information provided on the hardware/software. 🙄

Now stop claiming that dropping a Merom in a MB/MBP is going to result in two times the battery life. That is not true. And if you think it is I will make a bet with you right now.

I'm not anti Core2Duo, I'm anti disinformation.
Click to expand...
1.67 x 3 = 5

1.67 rounded UP = 2

Almost TWICE and I never wrote "two times".
 
Multimedia said:
1.67 x 3 = 5

1.67 rounded UP = 2

TWICE
Click to expand...

But it's perfectly acceptable to round 1.67 down too, it's half way between 1.5 and 2. Also depends on the price of a Sidcrome socket set.

I'll believe this 2x battery life bollocks when I see the results from the labs, not some chintzy marketing ploy by Intel.
 
Chundles said:
But it's perfectly acceptable to round 1.67 down too, it's half way between 1.5 and 2. Also depends on the price of a Sidcrome socket set.

I'll believe this 2x battery life bollocks when I see the results from the labs, not some chintzy marketing ploy by Intel.
Click to expand...

Thanks for being the voice of reason.

Multimedia, how is "twice the battery life" and "two times the battery life" different?
 
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/02/first_core-2_duo_benchmarks/

Here you go buddy.

More noteworthy than the performance result is the way the T7600 achieved the performance gain. Despite the fact that the processor is rated at a higher thermal design power than its predecessor (34 watts and 31 watts, respectively), Merom consumed slightly less power during the benchmark run. The exact system ran nine minutes or 7% longer with the Merom chip than with the Core Duo. This result is especially impressive if we consider the fact that Merom packs twice the amount of (power consuming) L2 Cache on its die: The Core 2 Duo T 7600 comes with 4 MB, while the Core Duo T2600 uses 2 MB.
Click to expand...

GOOD GOD, 7%!!! Oh wait, that sounds pretty consistent to me. 🙄
 
Intel Employees Do Not Lie

Chundles said:
But it's perfectly acceptable to round 1.67 down too, it's half way between 1.5 and 2. Also depends on the price of a Sidcrome socket set.

I'll believe this 2x battery life bollocks when I see the results from the labs, not some chintzy marketing ploy by Intel.
Click to expand...
It's not a "chintzy marketing ploy by Intel". It's a scientific test conducted by two Intel Marketing engineers which I always believe because Intel employees are honest people with families and friends who love them. 🙂
 
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