Needs to be faster, have an infinitely better remote control, and they need to make it like the Fire TV where I don't have to point the remote at the box to get it to work.
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WWDC [2015 4th Generation] ATV Prediction Thread
- Thread starter Lord Hamsa
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
This is not a mobile device like iPhone & iPad. It works by relying on a network connection to a computer. That computer likely has more storage than any iPhone and iPad combined times 5+. In this way, the existing
TV has MORE storage than any iDevice available now- just not built inside. Think of this as an iDevice where it's variable storage is OUTSIDE the box, much like one can buy huge wifi drives as separate storage for mobile iDevices (or one might think of the cloud as separate huge storage for iDevices). As to storing apps themselves, this device is also not a multitasking iDevice. There is one "app" running on it's screen at any given time. As such, storing hundreds or thousands of apps back on the hard drive in the computer serves this purpose too. It simply streams over whatever app a user wants to run on the TV at the time, pretty much identical to how it streams over a movie, tv show or music file now. As such, this particular iDevice is the only one with unlimited* app storage.
That said, the best way to fulfill the desires of those who want local storage is NOT for Apple to try to pick the right amounts to build in (there is no possible way for them to do that and make everybody happy). Instead, they should normalize the USB port and/or build in NAS support so that those seeking to "cut the cord" between
TV and a computer can do so. "Sync" your media to either storage option and shut down that computer (or let it leave the household when someone wants to watch something on TV). Those happy to stream don't have to feel they are paying extra for on-board storage they don't want. Those wanting to sync media can add whatever amount of storage they want.What I'd like to see in the new one:
-app store
-unified login (one login for all apps)
-normalized USB/NAS for sync people (as well as the option for companies like Elgato to bring local tuners and DVR functionality)
-analog audio out for receivers with Zone 2 capability
-new audio licenses at least on par with BD (all the way up to Atmos)
-new video horsepower at least on par with BD
-4K (just to be ahead of the crowd, assuming we don't get the next
TV for another 4 or so years, and whether or not there is any 4K content available in the iTunes store at launch)-resurrect certain niceties of the 1st gen: our own movies in "movies", our own TV shows in "TV Shows", etc; use the "show" field again to group serialized movies into a single menu item (all the Star Wars, Harry Potter, James Bond, etc films show as 1 clickable line item in the movie list); gen 1 organization of TV shows, etc.
-h.265 to step ahead
-more on-board RAM so that it's not too little RAM that makes it feel slow
-more remote control discrete codes (so universal remotes can operate it in more ways)
-unified search across apps (so that the search for a movie to watch will show in all available app options)
-much improved UI away from scrolling through tiles of rounded rectangles
-some kind of programming guide across apps so that a "what's on" query can make it easy to find something
-maybe deals with SATT & cable players so that
TV4 can replace cable boxes in every room (and the lease fee that comes with them).What I personally don't want to see:
-dependencies on other iDevices, like the oft-wished "use an iPhone as a game controller and remote" because that actually only makes sense for single people, living alone.
-overly tight control of what apps can get into the app store so that stuff like Plex can be added for those that prefer it
-dependency on an Apple-created remote so that those with one universal remote (to rule them all) don't have to go back to having at least 2 remotes
-continued (over) focus on trying to drive iTunes rentals & purchases. First gen prioritized our own content while still making it easy to rent or buy.
-"Thinner & lighter" for this NON-mobile device, especially if that means ejecting ports or any other hardware utility. Technological anorexia has no place for a little box that you place and it pretty much sits there for the rest of it's useful life.
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US users appear to have a very ample viewing catalogue on the ATV. Other countries don't. In NZ, we have emerging SVOD options, none are on the ATV as to get an app on the ATV, Apple has to invite, so thats not gonna happen. iOS is always first to market with these emerging SVOD solutions, and as the ATV is an iOS device, an open AppStore would make the ATV a single, and the only STB everyone needs. Maybe it wont have its own AppStore, but it will use the iOS App Store. Awesome. The ATV may become an iPad in a box. If it also became a true games console, the 32GB may be an issue, so perhaps it will have an external HDD option, possibly limited to a proprietary file system, so it ONLY becomes an extension of the ATV, Apple preferring to stop users using their own video, but to purchase or use app video only.
I don't know if this has been addressed or not, but the wwdc picture for this year obviously has the shape of a Apple TV in the center. We all know that. But the surrounding balls and squares mimic the shapes of iPhone/iPad apps and the circles mimic the apple watch apps.... Ok I'm done being cool now.
A lot of people did notice that, but others pointed out that that's also the same shape as the Apple Watch (minus the band, of course).
Why is everyone certain that it won't be 4K?
I know 1080p is still the base standard, but 4K is not exactly bleeding edge anymore, there is 8K at the bleeding edge, why stop at 1K?
Hell! an iPad is above that now on a 9 inch screen. When can i go to 4k on my 65" screen? My 15" macbook is 3K, my 27" iMac is 3K....
Surely the A8 can handle 4K?
I know 1080p is still the base standard, but 4K is not exactly bleeding edge anymore, there is 8K at the bleeding edge, why stop at 1K?
Hell! an iPad is above that now on a 9 inch screen. When can i go to 4k on my 65" screen? My 15" macbook is 3K, my 27" iMac is 3K....
Surely the A8 can handle 4K?
Because Apple isn't likely to be ready to start providing 4k content in iTunes to any real degree just yet. The A8 should be capable of it and it will likely be added as a firmware update in the future, but I'd rate the odds of it being included in a release coming out this year as extremely low.
The bottleneck on 4K isn't the local hardware. CPUs and GPUs are more than capable of handling lots more pixels than 4k, and as you note, screens with that many pixels have been available for quite some time.
The bottleneck is data transmission. Cable companies still have't figured out how to deliver 1080p channels without terrible compression; indeed most cable TV is still 720p for this reason. There are lots of threads on this forum discussing how iTunes rentals/buys are better in 720p than 1080p due to the massive compression requires to deliver 1080p reliably. Netflix, HBO, MLB, Amazon, and the other usual suspects with big data backbones seem to be able to deliver 1080p streaming in decent quality, but only to those with very good and fast internet connections - which is unfortunately a minority of the US, and a minority of the world too.
Really, until either compression or internet speeds, or both, are improved such that 4k can be transmitted in real-time, reliably, to a significant percent of the population, it's pretty much pointless to include 4k as a feature.
And to be clear, by reliably, I mean being able to stream a 4k movie while the entire family surfs the net on other devices without noticing a slow-down. That means if someone figures out how to stream 4k using "only" 10mbps, I figure that family's internet connection will need to be at least 40mbps for that stream and attendant use to be reliable. Extrapolate up as needed.
H.265 is great, but it's not nearly enough. Compared to H.264, it achieves about 30% lower bitrates for the same HD quality setting, or files sizes being about 40-50% lower file sizes of equivalent quality.
To be sure, that is very good. That's why it's used in facetime calls. However, it's not as significant when you consider that files sizes grow exponentially when moving up in resolution. H.264 supports up to 4k, and using that, file sizes tend to be about roughly 4x larger for 4k than for 1080p. So, if file sizes are set to increase 4x, and a new compression allows a 30-50% savings, depending on how its used, then file sizes are still increasing 2-3x. So it really hasn't solved the data transmission bottleneck.
The biggest advantages of H.265 is that it supports up to 8k resolution, 10-bit color, and much higher frame-rates. The better compression seems more like a cherry on top, and less of the killer feature that will drive this standard.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Because the phone and maybe iPad will record in 4K (and that will be touted in "new iPhone/iPad" marketing) before someone at Apple thinks about building an
TV that can display what is shot on a 4K screen. Same thing happened with 1080p- the primary Apple iDevices were recording in 1080p a good while before Apple decided to roll out a 1080p TVThat said though, I'd love Apple to not do the same again. Make it 4K just to be ahead even if there is no 4K content in the iTunes store and iDevices can't shoot in 4K yet. Since they seem to go about 4 years between meaningful hardware updates, it would be sad to roll out 1080p and then go about 4 more years before they finally get around to a 4K
TV. Forget iTunes store and internet bandwidth limitations. We already shoot better-than-4K photographs with our iDevices. Fairly cheap camcorders can already shoot 4K video, which can be imported and edited just fine with Apple tools like FCPX. Some vodcasts would probably go 4K as soon as Apple would allow it. Netflix & Youtube has some. Trailers would be easy to offer in 4K. Some studio would be increasingly tempted to see if they could profit on a 4K release through the iTunes store if many 4K
TVs ended up in homes. Every sale would be more temptation to give it a try. If they make money, other studios would quickly follow.I don't expect it (because iDevices aren't shooting in it yet) but it would be a nice surprise. Apple could roll out hardware capable of 4K playback and just not say much about that particular benefit until later (a technological easter egg). Better hardware will still play 1080p, 720p and SD content as good as it can be played (while we wait for 4K content to show up), much like playing DVDs in BD players or old software in latest & greatest Macs.
But it's not actually the same shape as the Watch. The watch is not square. People could say the shape could be a Mac Mini or Time Capsule... but unless they are combining one of those with the TV, it's an TV.
I'm also hoping for a way to remotely view my subscription channels and what I've stored on it, especially if it has a dvr function for live tv. If the dvr was cloud-based this would be easy. I travel a lot for work and have to wait until I get home to watch some of my favorite shows, which can be a challenge if something big happens on, say, Walking Dead, that makes people talk about it before I can see it.
Don't have an iPad but I travel with my MBP and iPhone. Yes, there are apps for Hulu and Netflix but if the new TV lets me record live shows or something else custom, there needs to be a special way to access it. Like Xfinity has an app for watching my cable subscriptions and program my dvr remotely if I forget to do it at home. Why have to pay for Hulu Plus for remote viewing if I'm already paying Apple for that channel?
Not sure about the Mac OS but I would assume anything that Apple comes out with there will be iOS Apps for it. However, I would be surprised if they have a DVR. I really believe with "full" on demand (which is what I hope Apple provides) really "significantly" reduce the need for a DVR.
I have 2 DVR's with a total of 12 tuners and 2 other STB's so I use them a lot. But my goal is to drop all except ATV Hardware (hopefully this year). My main problem is commercials. I have been trying to test out Hulu and the commercials aren't as bad as I thought. If CBS All Access was on ATV I would be pretty close now. My wife still would be missing some shows. But we are getting pretty close. I also have HBO Now and hoping soon will be able to get Showtime with CBS on ATV Streaming.
I 100% agree, commercials are the worst. It's one of the reasons I won't get Hulu. The monthly charge is too high to justify also watching commercials.
I don't mean to sound like such a fan-boy for this product, but many of the problems mentioned in the above few posts would be solved if there was a proper Tablo or Simple.tv channel on AppleTV. Record live network shows like a DVR, and stream them anywhere.
A 1 hour live broadcast show is almost 20 minutes of commercials and 40 minutes of tv (maybe 18 and 42). I have timed the commercials on Hulu and they vary but most are between 5 and 6 minutes. Some are under 5 minutes. That is a pretty huge difference when they are only about 60-70 seconds per showing. I had CBS All Access for a while on my Roku Box and it was about 10 minutes (which is too long). I think I could live with Hulu but still would rather pay more to get NO Commercials like on Netflix and HBO.
Keep in mind I pay $67 per month for DVR and STB Hardware plus FIOS TV on top Plus taxes and charges so have a lot of room for streaming costs.
Yes, I agree. I think on some basic cable channels it's even worse. For example, if you don't count the coming up next pre-commercial preview, and the post-commercial what just happened recapp of many reality shows, then it's really 50% nonsense and 50% show.
I also don't think money is the biggest factor. I'm not in this to save money - but rather to get what I want on terms I can live with.
That said, I think if Tablo or Simple.tv take off as an OTA solution for these streaming boxes, it will only be a matter of time before someone writes an extension for them that deletes/skips commercials (which is legal). Similar to the extensions that already exist for EyeTV, Windows Media Center, and MythTV.
I agree white at night would not be pleasing. However, maybe they could give you the best of both worlds and include a dynamic interface that changes background color based on local time. Light during the day that would change to dark as the sun sets.
It reminds me of the Disney BD that would change its menu depending on your local weather report.
at one point I owned 3 ATV 3's and I've been an owner of at least 1 ATV going back to the original. But its gonna take a lot to get me back and I doubt I will be, I'm firmly entrenched in Plex on all my Devices and I've pretty much gone to an Xbox One as my main go to device. It has all the streaming apps, I subscribed to Xbox Music when it was $30 for the year, I use Vudu, HBO GO, Plex, Amazon and Hulu Plus to replace cable and MLB Premium for baseball. Plus in the fall the TV Tuner is coming out ( I use a Medialogic box now) and supposedly they are working on DVR Capabilities.
Add to all that I can Play Battlefield when the Mood hits me it really is a great option.
Add to all that I can Play Battlefield when the Mood hits me it really is a great option.
For me, the perfect apple TV would allow me to play local content without having to have a computer on with itunes.
I don't care if it's via UBS drive, NAS, Time Capsule Storage (I still can't believe apple won't enable that function) etc...
I like the current OS, I like the remote, I like the speed etc.
Apple TV would CRUSH the market if it allowed local storage playback.
I don't care if it's via UBS drive, NAS, Time Capsule Storage (I still can't believe apple won't enable that function) etc...
I like the current OS, I like the remote, I like the speed etc.
Apple TV would CRUSH the market if it allowed local storage playback.
i dont think you are the target audience for the atv.... to me the atv is meant to supplement the apple ecosystem. so if you were firmly entrenched in itunes then the atv makes sense. It can do basically everything you listed when you replace plex/amazon for itunes. i have 3 atvs as well and i use them daily.
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kind agree on this...however id do one more...apple needs an itunes server...there needs to be 4 airports:
express extreme time capsule itunes server
your airport is ALWAYS on so why not have it serve itunes content
thsi doesnt completely bother me as my mac mini is always on and everyday im either adding a new show or movie or music to itunes...but a stand alone itunes server would be great for less techy folks
Yep. Big Issue with me is we only have 2 macbook pros, no stand alone machine on all the time, the homesharing does work but its very spotty. have having to run around to find my laptop to either turn it on, or to make sure it's plugged in to see my local content.