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WWDC: Leopard Details

funny... Leopard is Vista 2.0

Leopard truly is shaping up to be Vista 2.0 - ugly and disappointing. If the sleek interface is gone let's hope the stability remained.:(
 
A little let down.

I was expecting to see a bit more, feel kinda let down. Stacks & Cover Flow look cool but I don't really see the huge improvements over Tiger.
 
I kind of agree Leopard lacks in direct end-user improvements.
(although I'd love iTunes-like Finder)

but there IS a HUGE improvement in the OS and API underpinnings.
As a Sunday programmer that alone makes me buy two copies of Leopard :)
 
I seem to be in the minority here but I liked EVERYTHING I saw in the keynote. People need to stop obsessing over the grass background, it was just a picture Jobs picked, he even mentioned that. It is NOT going to be the default background in Leopard. Even if it was, who cares? Change it to something you like. I LOVE the new dock. Tiger's dock looks so antiquated in comparison. And whining about a translucent menu bar? I can't even fathom what the beef is that people could have with this.

Stacks looked really cool, I love the downloads stack-brilliant. I hope that there is a preferences option to straighten the stack and get rid of the fanning effect. Not because I don't like it, I do. But so that people who don't like the fanning can override it.

Time Machine is my favorite feature. Coming from the Windows world I became used to losing files. With this feature I can plug in an external drive and never worry again. Priceless! Steve also mentioned that Time Machine works wirelessly, how cool is that?

Finally remember this, Apple has 4 months to tweak Leopard to perfection-and they will. The OS we saw on Monday was FEATURE COMPLETE but I am certain the aesthetics are not final. Keep the faith-Apple always delivers.
 
New UI

dear guys,

if you look better the interfaces in the keynote. you will see that are still the inconsistences. aqua isn't disappeared (quick look scroll bars) yet and the finder interface is identical to itunes. It is not new!!! this seems too strange to me. I am sure that final release will give to us a completely redisegned interface, at least colors and effects (there are not core animations yet).

i am sure that apple joked with us to not show the real aspect (because of the fotocopiers in redmond) of the new os.

from my side i was really impressed with new finder, which seems to be a DB at all.

let's see.

a.
 
first of all, if the fact that leopard has only minor changes reminds us of how good tiger is.

secondly, their are lots of updates, they are just smaller and make using your computer better without you realising it.

if they threw in 100 big revolutionary features, half of them would not be used and it would be that much harder to create 10.6

i still think that the best part of the entire keynote is being able to talk through pictures in ichat, i will probably use this feature more than any other.

leopard is what all other osx's are, reliable improvements over the previous generation.

unlike vista, which tried to be revolutionary and failed, leopard will be an amazing os.

plus, when will mac users learn to stop hyping up every new apple product. if we had the expectations windows users do, we would be over the moon when it was released.
 
True

docprego said:
I seem to be in the minority here but I liked EVERYTHING I saw in the keynote. People need to stop obsessing over the grass background, it was just a picture Jobs picked, he even mentioned that. It is NOT going to be the default background in Leopard. Even if it was, who cares? Change it to something you like. I LOVE the new dock. Tiger's dock looks so antiquated in comparison. And whining about a translucent menu bar? I can't even fathom what the beef is that people could have with this.

Stacks looked really cool, I love the downloads stack-brilliant. I hope that there is a preferences option to straighten the stack and get rid of the fanning effect. Not because I don't like it, I do. But so that people who don't like the fanning can override it.

Time Machine is my favorite feature. Coming from the Windows world I became used to losing files. With this feature I can plug in an external drive and never worry again. Priceless! Steve also mentioned that Time Machine works wirelessly, how cool is that?

Finally remember this, Apple has 4 months to tweak Leopard to perfection-and they will. The OS we saw on Monday was FEATURE COMPLETE but I am certain the aesthetics are not final. Keep the faith-Apple always delivers.
Click to expand...

I agree. Also, Core Animation will likely be implemented into other OS operations before release in October. A new, multi-threaded, Cocoa Finder and Multi-Core optimization will make this OS scream. Now that the iPhone is soon to be released, resources will be able to return towards Leopard's development. Under the hood, this shall be one massive upgrade. Res Independence will likely be focused once new Apps are released.
 
landis said:
plus, when will mac users learn to stop hyping up every new apple product. if we had the expectations windows users do, we would be over the moon when it was released.
Click to expand...

But we're Apple users, not Winodws users. :D

I think Leopard is great, and I can't wait until October! I really really want the new Finder and the new APIs. The other aspects are nice (I do like Time Machine) but I don't feel the same MUST HAVE NOW feeling about them.
 
DMann said:
True, Core Animation and WPF are very different animals, with somewhat different intents. While WPF (Avalon) is primarily XML, Core Animation works within the OS and provides functionality for Apps which run in its environment. Wouldn't it be great if WPF could work within Vista's environment in a similar manner?
Click to expand...

I agree with most of your points DMann. I've programmed neither WPF nor Core Animation but BGil clearly understands Windows technology more than he understand Mac OS X technology.

WPF looks fantastic for some things but the one thing that Apple is attempting to do with CA that I don't see with WPF is the ability to layer multiple elements and keyframe/animate them. The videos linked were poor. Scaling photographs in that first youtube pic isn't what CA is about.

It's probably prudent to become a bit more knowledgable about OS X technologies before you go trying to tell the Mac faithful that Core Animation is just a WPF rip.

Although I reserve the right to be wrong if you can show me the implicit code that layers data, keyframes the layers in 3D space and makes it trivially easy in WPF. I'm not seeing that myself but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

WPF is more akin to Quartz IMO...you'd never want to compare CA to WPF..it doesn't handle the rendering with GPU help. It works in conjunction with Quartz for these tasks.
 
ostrov said:
I was expecting to see a bit more, feel kinda let down. Stacks & Cover Flow look cool but I don't really see the huge improvements over Tiger.
Click to expand...

Do you even know where to look? Honestly. I don't see a huge difference between Algebra and Quantum Physics...that doesn't mean the large differences don't exist...it simply means my ability to grasp the scope of the two subjects may be limited hampering my ability to discern many differences.
 
@inkhead:

mungler said:
What on earth do you mean by this? Surely this requries hardware (ie NAND or usb flash).

By posting this, you are casting serious doubt on the legitimacy of your other posts. I hate to be the guy who calls you on this, but can you please explain this?
Click to expand...

Btw, the new Santa Rosa MBPs *DO NOT* have Intel Turbo Memory (aka Robson aka some NAND chips on the mobo).

"Apple's recently upgraded MacBook Pro lineup features many new or upgraded features, but one feature many expected that is not present is Intel's TurboMemory (aka Robson NAND Flash Caching)."

Source: MacRumors


Anyway, i'd still like a response to this question - what did you mean by this?
 
Alan A said:
dear guys,

if you look better the interfaces in the keynote. you will see that are still the inconsistences. aqua isn't disappeared (quick look scroll bars) yet and the finder interface is identical to itunes. It is not new!!! this seems too strange to me. I am sure that final release will give to us a completely redisegned interface, at least colors and effects (there are not core animations yet).

i am sure that apple joked with us to not show the real aspect (because of the fotocopiers in redmond) of the new os.

from my side i was really impressed with new finder, which seems to be a DB at all.

let's see.

a.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm glad someone else agrees that the scroll bars look completely wrong with the unified look.

I thought we would get a completely new UI, but as it didn't debut at WWDC I think you might as well accept it won't be coming in the final version.
 
elppa said:
Hey, I'm glad someone else agrees that the scroll bars look completely wrong with the unified look.

I thought we would get a completely new UI, but as it didn't debut at WWDC I think you might as well accept it won't be coming in the final version.
Click to expand...

I think Leopard will have scrollbars and theme like this and I like that theme.
 
Does anyone have any idea about the pricing of Leopard over here in Britain? I mean i'm gonna be getting it anyway but it'd just be nice to know and Amazon appear not to be showing the price on their site, I assume its not just gonna be a direct currency conversion... is it?
 
nuckinfutz said:
Do you even know where to look? Honestly. I don't see a huge difference between Algebra and Quantum Physics...that doesn't mean the large differences don't exist...it simply means my ability to grasp the scope of the two subjects may be limited hampering my ability to discern many differences.
Click to expand...

Well, since jobs only showed us 10 new features and I dont have a copy of Leopard, I can only guess that he covered the "top 10" new features. Based on what I saw, Im just not that jazzed. Certainly nothing was shown that warranted the hype the past several months or Jobs quote of "Leopard will be worth the wait" So far it "looks" a tad-bit nicer and has a few new "gee-whiz" features but other than that? Where is the meat? Why is a upgrade going to be that important, isn't Tiger the cats meow? I'll get it when I buy a new system (bundled) but just wont be buying a retail boxed copy when its released.
 
WPF looks fantastic for some things but the one thing that Apple is attempting to do with CA that I don't see with WPF is the ability to layer multiple elements and keyframe/animate them.
Click to expand...

http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/expression-blend/features.mspx

WPF doesn't have "built in support" for the animation feature that DMann mentioned nor the ones you mentioned but the WPF designer (Expression) does. Unless you're writing your WPF app via Notepad or XAMLpad then it's irrelevant that WPF does not have great support for animation and layering via built in classes and operations.

The WPF designer is very similar to After Effects or Flash. In fact, I'd say the entire Expression Suite is just the Microsoft version of the Adobe Web Suite with its equvalents to Flash, Illustrator/Fireworks, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Contribute, and Bridge.

It's probably prudent to become a bit more knowledgable about OS X technologies before you go trying to tell the Mac faithful that Core Animation is just a WPF rip.
Click to expand...

You should read slower and try to comphrend more of what I said. Never did I say it was a rip. I said it wasn't the "quantum leap" over Microsoft that another poster claimed it was and that it was only replicating functionality Microsoft already has. A motorcycle and a car both replicate functionality but neither is a rip of the other.

WPF is more akin to Quartz IMO...you'd never want to compare CA to WPF..it doesn't handle the rendering with GPU help. It works in conjunction with Quartz for these tasks.
Click to expand...

Technically, WPF doesn't handle the GPU rendering either, which is why it's not GPU accelerated on XP or Windows Server. WPF is basically just the new UI langauge for Windows with a cross-platform subset used for internet-based applications. So not quite Quartz but it does emcompass all the major functionality of Core Animation and (partially) Core Image. In addition it has elements of Flash and AJAX as well.
But the point is that saying WPF does more than Core Animation and encompasses its functionality is correct and a valid point in the context of this dicsussion even if WPF is more analogous to another OS X feature.
 
Frohike said:
Does anyone have any idea about the pricing of Leopard over here in Britain? I mean i'm gonna be getting it anyway but it'd just be nice to know and Amazon appear not to be showing the price on their site, I assume its not just gonna be a direct currency conversion... is it?
Click to expand...

£89 - £99.

Although at current exchange rates it should be about £60.
 
Alan A said:
dear guys,

if you look better the interfaces in the keynote. you will see that are still the inconsistences. aqua isn't disappeared (quick look scroll bars) yet and the finder interface is identical to itunes. It is not new!!! this seems too strange to me. I am sure that final release will give to us a completely redisegned interface, at least colors and effects (there are not core animations yet).

i am sure that apple joked with us to not show the real aspect (because of the fotocopiers in redmond) of the new os.

from my side i was really impressed with new finder, which seems to be a DB at all.

let's see.

a.
Click to expand...

Agree with the inconsistencies.

But Redmond's photocopiers wont be turned on for another 8 years, they just released Vista. The place to show your cards is WWDC. I can't help but think they've been absolutely swamped with the iPhone and all releasing it entails.
 
ostrov said:
Well, since jobs only showed us 10 new features and I dont have a copy of Leopard, I can only guess that he covered the "top 10" new features. Based on what I saw, Im just not that jazzed. Certainly nothing was shown that warranted the hype the past several months or Jobs quote of "Leopard will be worth the wait" So far it "looks" a tad-bit nicer and has a few new "gee-whiz" features but other than that? Where is the meat? Why is a upgrade going to be that important, isn't Tiger the cats meow? I'll get it when I buy a new system (bundled) but just wont be buying a retail boxed copy when its released.
Click to expand...

When you buy is up to you. The plus side of waiting for a new computer to purchase is that you get a new iLife too hopefully.

I'll give my honest opinion about Leopard. First let me state that Steve Jobs did once again fool users by over hyping the Top Secret features. I love good marketing as much as anyone but that simply was a bad idea. Expectations rose too much.

Leopard is truly way beyond Tiger. Tiger to me was the first usable OS that didn't have many "glaring" issue but just a bunch of small ones. When I look at Leopard I'm seeing some very nice things.

Quicklook- is simply going to change how we access our documents. I realized the power but Apple has impressed me with the demo. Who doesn't have a folder of poorly named documents that need a quick "preview" to see the contents? I do this all the time. With Quick look all I'll need to do to view contents or grab info quickly is select the file and hit the space bar. So if I know I only need a small piece of data I'm not firing up the whole application just to get it. It really is a major feature

Finder/Dock/Stacks- Evolutionary but welcomed. I believe in the "Sidebar" paradigm. I think many users are familiar with the left side of applications or websites providing navigation and hierarchy. I'm all ready reading reports that the pains with network shares and the Finder are gone. Coverflow is useful for folders with small amounts of files IMO.

Spaces/iChat- I doubt I'll use these but I'm ok that they're there. iChat would get more use if it does remote control. Spaces sounds great but memory isn't exactly free and I just can't leave applications open all day.

Mail/iCal/Sync- I really like the enhancements to mail. The HTML stuff isn't bad but the headliners to me are the integration with iCal and To Dos. iCal now has a new API that 3rd parties software vendors can use to read/write data. Sync services should finally mature and work right. I'm not sure if I'm going to have an iPhone soon but the pieces are coming together.

I don't want to blather but Jobs simply didn't cover all that is Leopard. You heard nothing about Resolution Independence, He didn't cover the spiffy QT Kit and QT Capture stuff that take over a lot of Quicktime functionality. He didn't cover the new text capabilities of Leopard, He didn't cover the OpenGL 2.1 or the threaded UI rendering which eliminates many of the beachballs and lag in Tiger.

This is a Developers conference and they get access to all the stuff still under NDA. My recommendation is that if someone has a slower G4 or plans to upgrade their Mac in the next year then by all means hold out. But if you like computing and value efficiency then Leopard is a no brainer. From a developmental standpoint it's so significant...enough developers are delivering some apps as Leopard only and I've seen statements from Omnigroup and the Scrivener developer that their next major updates to some of their products will be Leopard only joining Textmate 2.0, Delicious Library 2.0, and Flysketch as the initial Leopard Only crew AFAIK.

There's nothing in Leopard that one cannot easily understand at first glance but don't let the simple stuff fool you. It's like Expose, you see it demoed and it doesn't fully translate to the end user how cool it really is in use.
 
It's funny. You guys all complain now. But it'll be the same thing that happens every time Apple releases something new. People complain about it looking horrible and how it will never be good to use and how Apple will die now because of this thing, but when it comes out, people will love it. In a few months after its release it's like it was there all the time.

*sigh*

Amazing. Every time. I love watching people complain about unfinished products.
 
Alan A said:
I am sure that final release will give to us a completely redisegned interface, at least colors and effects (there are not core animations yet).

i am sure that apple joked with us to not show the real aspect (because of the fotocopiers in redmond) of the new os.
Click to expand...

How long are people going to kid themselves that this isn't the final look of Leopard? Get used to it.
 
Jasoco said:
It's funny. You guys all complain now. But it'll be the same thing that happens every time Apple releases something new. People complain about it looking horrible and how it will never be good to use and how Apple will die now because of this thing, but when it comes out, people will love it. In a few months after its release it's like it was there all the time.

*sigh*

Amazing. Every time. I love watching people complain about unfinished products.
Click to expand...

People are complaining because the "secret features" weren't worthy of waiting a year to see them not becuase the features are bad.
 
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