WWDC PowerBook G5 2.2GHz?

[stingerman]

As far as Motorola/Freescale coming in with a competitive processor to Dothan, have you people forgotten the last 5 years! Jeez. Even if Freescale comes through, do you really think Steve is going to give them yet another chance to hurt Apple? Come on now.

Apple moves for competitive reasons, Intel made the last move now its Apple's turn. I think this WWDC will be a watershed event with Apple re-entering the battle for the Enterprise. That means they will need Enterprise hardware in addition to Xserve. The Powerbooks for the Execs and mobile workers and a new iMac that will look good in the office and at home.

If Apple could, I think they would announce a G5 based Powerbook as soon as they can get it ready. There is absolutely no reason for them not to. The 1.5GHz Powerbook was a quick interim solution to help stave off further declines in Powerbook sales as users awaited a faster notebook. The next step for Apple will need to be 2GHz plus for the Powerbook. And they need it now before Intel's marketing plays deja vue with Apple.

 

[Analog Kid]

You are partially correct. However, those who buy a new product on the day it is announced should have a reasonable expectation of the product not being upgraded in less then 4 or 5 months.

I love this attitude (just using your post as an example, Bear, you're not alone). "When I buy a piece of hardware, I expect the market to stand still for half a year".

Wish Einstein were still around... Maybe he could explain how the appearance of a faster machine makes existing units suddenly run slower...

 

[Analog Kid]

This has been talked into the ground. 90nm G5's running in the 1.6-1.8Ghz range are in the same bracket of heat generation and power consumption as a G4. That coupled with a number of speed scaling techs IBM has introduced over the last 6-8 months that will allow the G5 to scale in speed would make a G5 PowerBook very possible. Also keep in mind we have NO idea how long Apple has been working on this. They very well could have had a team dedicated to the G5 PowerBook in tandem with the development of the PowerMac. Who knows.

Been talked into the ground and you still don't get it... It's not the chip power, it's the system power.

If they want to optimize performance/power (as they always have in the past) they're going to have to wait for technology to catch up. To make this work they need to bring down the system power-- power numbers for the G5 with all pins floating doesn't make the point.

People keep looking at the G5 process to predict when the PBG5's are coming out-- look at DDR2 uptake.

 

[Analog Kid]

Nothing.. that's why I don't need a light little Powerbook.

What I do need is something I can take to laptop-music-type performances once a month maybe, and take home once every two months or so. I don't even care if it doesn't have a battery. I'm fine using it always plugged in... any music venue or museum has electricity. I just want a desktop with a built-in screen that I can carry around. 95% of the time it'll just be sitting on my desk anyway.

I want the power of a desktop in something that's "transportable", as someone said above. I don't want to use it on the train or the bus, or carry it with me every day even. I just want to be able to move it for special occasions like doing a performance or something. You need all the power you can get with doing real-time audio and video synthesis, but what you don't need is battery life or a lightweight system.

I realize there probably isn't much of a market for a dual-G5 15lb laptop... but you might be surprised. ;-)

It's like kids with LAN parties (that's what they're called, right? :-\). Hauling the desktop and the monitor over is a huge pain in the ass. Taking a 10 pound laptop is no big deal, and no one cares about battery life. However, you need the power of a desktop and an all-out video card. No one wants a namby-pamby G4 machine... although if you're are so obsessive over your games then you probably need more than a faster computer.

Sounds like a G5 iMac to me... 15" comes in at 20 lbs.

 

[rdowns]

I think who ever posted this rumor is seriously smoking something! Why would Apple go through the trouble of coming out with G4 updates a few weeks ago, then turn around 30 or 40 days later and release completely new PowerBooks? Doesn't make any sense to me. As far as the time when Apple updated the 15" Titanium then introduced new 12/17" PowerBooks, well if you remember they didn't update the 15" PowerBook until well into that year so to me that doesn't really count since they didn't update the 15" PowerBook with those new models.

I don't think you will ever see a G5 PowerBook anytime with in the next 2 years. There isn't a G5 processor out there right now that will be usable in a laptop configuration without eating the battery and boiling your leg. It ain't gonna happen people so quit pissing and moaning about it! As you can see its not getting you anywhere is it!!!

We can all sit here and speculate all we want but none of us knows about what is really going on inside Apple. How about this scenario:

The PB G5 team was having a very hard time overcoming heat issues (or others) and told Jobs that they were at least 6 months away from solving them. Apple decided to update the PBs with 1.5 G4s. The PB G5 team has a breakthrough and solved the issue much sooner. Now what? Sit on the technology while sales and market share continue to erode or introduce it depsite the recent update?

Or this...

IBM tells Apple in January of the G5 problems (yields, rumored glue problem, whatever). Apple is forced to alter all their release schedules. Slap the 1.5 G4 in the PB thus delaying that chip in the iMac. Go ahead and put it in the eMac due to its low volume. Postpone the PM update. By March or April, IBM tells Apple the problem is solved and Apple decides to kill the G4 iMac upgrade because G5s will be available in 60-90 days. Apple decides to bet the farm on WWDC and revamp much of their line. New iMacs, PMs and maybe even PBs.

There was an interesting rumor submission recently from a supposed laid off Apple employee in the Sacremento facility. Said he was posting because he was pissed about being laid off.

He speaks of cancelling first quarter updates due to IBM delays. Goes on to say that Trinity is the next big step, which is really not a G5 any longer, because it is based on the PowerPC 975, which is a single core variant of the Power 5... The new powerpc 975 will have its own on board memory controller which will support ram of no less than PC 3200 in dual channel

Trinity PMs will ship at speeds of up to 3.2Ghz come late summer...Even further on the horizon is the next revision codename cypher, which will used the PowerPC 976, which is a dual core monstrosity.

As we speak right now, IBM is currently ramping up production of the PowerPC 975 processor which it will unveil during Steve Jobs' keynote. During test yields, it has consistently produced good yields at speeds up to 3.2 Ghz. A lot of the problems that plagued the 970fx also plagued the 975, but they were both worked on at the same time. For the record, the 970fx is destined for the next iMac revision coming soon.

Who the hell knows? No more or less plausible that the other speculation around here.

 

[Zaty]

I doubt we'll se PBG5 at WWDC but not because the PBs were recently updated. Even if Apple announced PBG5 at WWDC, they wouldn't be available in decent quantities for some time. Furthermore, there are so many people out there who have been waiting for a PBG5 for months, so demand would definitely be high. Apple could continue selling the G4s until supply of the G5s matches demand. Now, I can already see people saying:" Who in their right minds would buy a G4 PB after the annoucement of G5s?" Well, there are such people, some peolpe just don't care because they're not following rumor/news sites (due to lack of interest in doing so) and there are always people, who for whatever reason need new a computer immediately and cannot wait 2 or 3 months. In a nutshell, if PBG5s were ready at WWDC, Apple wouldn't wait to start selling them just because the released new G4s two months earlier. (It would be downright foolish to wait IMHO).

 

[AmigoMac]

Paris!

Yeah! It will be in Paris! I heard it... I dreamed about it and can already see them...wwdc will be more like a PM event, and one more thing ... anyway paris is the place!

 

[jxyama]

If it is true that the Xserve is capable of having 16 GB of RAM once 2GB sticks are availible. It would be possible that the PowerBook could handle 4GB in two slot as soon as the DIMM are out there.

there are desktop RAMs that are 2 GB in capacity already.

SO-DIMMs are now barely hitting the 1 GB, in a sense the supply has improved to the point it's semi-affordable. it's gonna be a while before we see a SO-DIMM with 2 GB capacity.

 

[Sun Baked]

I hope it isn't dual channel DDR, could you imagine the look on people's faces when they get a 1GB machine, and have to pull out all the DIMMs to upgrade it to 2GB, then do the same thing if they ever go to 4GB.

 

[stockscalper]

All this speculation about Intel one upping Apple is nil; Intel admitted last week they have hit the wall. They've overclocked the P4 as much as can be done. Prescott runs at 100 watts and an engineering bulletin warns of cracking the chip due to the heat it generates. While Intel scrambles to stay afloat Apple has all the options; it has paths from both FreeScale and IBM and there is no point in putting all of its chips (eggs) in one basket. For Apple the skies are blue and the horizon bright; for Intel it's dusk and smoggy.

 

[DHagan4755]

Maybe, maybe not.

Given what we do know of the G5, there is no way it's going into a PowerBook anytime soon. But you have to admit Apple has to have been working on putting a G5 in a PowerBook since well before even IBM announced they were doing a PowerPC 970 (G5). Given that, and what little we know about newer, supposedly cooler versions of the 970, anything is possible.

 

[Frobozz]

We can all sit here and speculate all we want but none of us knows about what is really going on inside Apple. How about this scenario:

The PB G5 team was having a very hard time overcoming heat issues (or others) and told Jobs that they were at least 6 months away from solving them. Apple decided to update the PBs with 1.5 G4s. The PB G5 team has a breakthrough and solved the issue much sooner. Now what? Sit on the technology while sales and market share continue to erode or introduce it depsite the recent update?

Or this...

IBM tells Apple in January of the G5 problems (yields, rumored glue problem, whatever). Apple is forced to alter all their release schedules. Slap the 1.5 G4 in the PB thus delaying that chip in the iMac. Go ahead and put it in the eMac due to its low volume. Postpone the PM update. By March or April, IBM tells Apple the problem is solved and Apple decides to kill the G4 iMac upgrade because G5s will be available in 60-90 days. Apple decides to bet the farm on WWDC and revamp much of their line. New iMacs, PMs and maybe even PBs.

There was an interesting rumor submission recently from a supposed laid off Apple employee in the Sacremento facility. Said he was posting because he was pissed about being laid off.

He speaks of cancelling first quarter updates due to IBM delays. Goes on to say that Trinity is the next big step, which is really not a G5 any longer, because it is based on the PowerPC 975, which is a single core variant of the Power 5... The new powerpc 975 will have its own on board memory controller which will support ram of no less than PC 3200 in dual channel

Trinity PMs will ship at speeds of up to 3.2Ghz come late summer...Even further on the horizon is the next revision codename cypher, which will used the PowerPC 976, which is a dual core monstrosity.

As we speak right now, IBM is currently ramping up production of the PowerPC 975 processor which it will unveil during Steve Jobs' keynote. During test yields, it has consistently produced good yields at speeds up to 3.2 Ghz. A lot of the problems that plagued the 970fx also plagued the 975, but they were both worked on at the same time. For the record, the 970fx is destined for the next iMac revision coming soon.

Who the hell knows? No more or less plausible that the other speculation around here.

I tend to believe your second scenario. I suppose anything can happen late in the game to throw it off, but I DO believe it's the most likely scenario. I know IBM... and they won't be kept down for long. They have those chips (whatever they're called) and Apple will be getting them.

 

[trianglejuice]

Some disappointing news...

I don't even know why you guys are so excited anyway. Via the OS X 10.3.4 update there's a suggestion of a new Mac (see previous rumors about PowerMac8,1), but that can't be a PB. Otherwise there would be something like PowerBook4,1 or so (like the other portables)...

Think about it! Think very different.

 

[ingenious]

As far as Motorola/Freescale coming in with a competitive processor to Dothan, have you people forgotten the last 5 years! Jeez. Even if Freescale comes through, do you really think Steve is going to give them yet another chance to hurt Apple? Come on now.

Apple moves for competitive reasons, Intel made the last move now its Apple's turn. I think this WWDC will be a watershed event with Apple re-entering the battle for the Enterprise. That means they will need Enterprise hardware in addition to Xserve. The Powerbooks for the Execs and mobile workers and a new iMac that will look good in the office and at home.

If Apple could, I think they would announce a G5 based Powerbook as soon as they can get it ready. There is absolutely no reason for them not to. The 1.5GHz Powerbook was a quick interim solution to help stave off further declines in Powerbook sales as users awaited a faster notebook. The next step for Apple will need to be 2GHz plus for the Powerbook. And they need it now before Intel's marketing plays deja vue with Apple.

That's what I'm thinking. Give the powerhungry mobile warriors an interim release to keep them happy, and then bring out the real release a few months later. It might cause them more sales, or they might (if those G4s haven't shipped by the time the G5s are actually released...) just replace the orders....

 

[Squire]

As we speak right now, IBM is currently ramping up production of the PowerPC 975 processor which it will unveil during Steve Jobs' keynote. During test yields, it has consistently produced good yields at speeds up to 3.2 Ghz.

I can just see it now...

Steve: Now back in (insert date of Keynote) I told you...no, I assured you that the G5 would be up to 3GHz by next summer- now. Well, I was going by the info I had at the time, given to me by the fine folks at IBM. A lot of things have changed since then and I stand here before you today to tell you I'm sorry...I was wrong. (dramatic pause) It's up to 3.2 GHz!

(standing ovation)

(insert new 3.2 GHz PM G5 spec slide)


Squire

 

[utilizer]

A few thoughts...

I usually don't say much on these forums but have to now!
OK, I will be possibly the first one to admit that I was wrong last year when I told you guys that there would not be a chance in hell that we would see the G5's announced at the time they were last year...In fact, I said that they would not have been shipped during 2003, until MWSF '04.
Well, I was dead wrong.
Let's flashback to that time:
As I recall it, the PowerMac line was refreshed with only 1.42 Dual Ghz G4's in March, to everyone's dismay. The current PowerBook line was just refreshed too at roughly about the same time I believe of this year. Now, taking that into account, along with recent comments by Steve to stock analysts that expressed frustrations with IBM's ability to produce sufficient quantities of G5 chips for both the XServe and PowerMac lines, I feel that IBM and Apple wanted to get it right this time. That's why we have yet to see a revision B to the PowerMac.

Now, also imagine the retail stores and how marketing works. Picture yourself as the "average John Doe" that knows that computers basically work! It's July of 2004 and you need a new computer and as you're walking through the shopping mall, you see these elegant computers sitting in a spiffy store. You say to yourself, "Gee, a Mac; I've heard recently that they're like a badly needed breath of fresh air when switching from Windows. I'll check it out."

You like the new G5s that were released but really want a laptop -- You suddenly realize, "Uh-oh. The G5 runs up to Dual 3 Ghz but the PowerBook tops out at 1.5 Ghz? AND it's an antiquated G4?!?!" So, you storm out of the store, leaving with the perception that you were essentially getting ripped off. Think about it: The Dual 3 Ghz coming out will be FAR superior to anything on the PB line; it already is now, it's embarrassing for Apple. It'll probably cost about $3,000, about the same for a well-equipped PB. Given, that price is without the monitor on the G5.

Yet, Apple continues to try to propel the argument that the G4 can do "most of the things most users require." True enough, BUT marketing always wins at the end of the day. Despite the brilliant iPod ads, people are still under the impression that the iPod only works on a Mac. I have an aunt who told me that the other day when she was having problems with her iRiver; the user interface is so hard she doesn't know how to use it. I suggested the iPod and that crap comes out of the mouth! It's not only her: FOUR of my other friends also brought up the same point -- AND two of them are *gulp* computer science majors. Yes friends, unfortunately Apple has an uphill battle over the coming months and I would give more credence to the G5 PowerBook making its debut at the WWDC later this month, just probably not as good as the specs suggested in the original post.

So, to sum up, Americans in particular are ignorant about technology; you can't market to these people with abstract ads. Furthermore, if Apple doesn't release the G5 PB, I give you the following analogy of how this scenario would play out in the media if something similar occurred in the auto industry:
"Mercedes releases the new S-Class with 800-HP; the fastest production car ever at under $100,000. Also the existing J-Class, which competes with the Kia Amanti has been discounted to $80,000, despite Kia's extremely competitive price of $26,500."

 

[utilizer]

I can just see it now...

Steve: Now back in (insert date of Keynote) I told you...no, I assured you that the G5 would be up to 3GHz by next summer- now. Well, I was going by the info I had at the time, given to me by the fine folks at IBM. A lot of things have changed since then and I stand here before you today to tell you I'm sorry...I was wrong. (dramatic pause) It's up to 3.2 GHz!

(standing ovation)

(insert new 3.2 GHz PM G5 spec slide)


Squire

That would be AWESOME!

 

[uzombie]

...So, to sum up, Americans in particular are ignorant about technology; you can't market to these people with abstract ads....

Um, it should read "most ignorant Americans.." I am not one of these


but I think all advertising plays on impulse so...

Anyway, I predict (drumroll)... a tablet Powerbook TBA.

/fire when ready, Gridley

 

[Frobozz]

I don't even know why you guys are so excited anyway. Via the OS X 10.3.4 update there's a suggestion of a new Mac (see previous rumors about PowerMac8,1), but that can't be a PB. Otherwise there would be something like PowerBook4,1 or so (like the other portables)...

Think about it! Think very different.

*ahem*

Unless, of course, the PowerBook isn't available until the next release of Mac OS X. Which would be October. Which would make the update to the PowerBook exactly 6 months apart.

Hmmmmm....

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Cool that would make the newest 2.2GHz G5 powerbook as portable as the original Osborne PC.

But with the lates in carry-on luggage technology, the wheels and telescoping handles will make this PowerBook a breeze to use and carry around.

It's funny because my dad still has his Osborne in the basement. In fact, I played with it about two months ago. I tell you, that second 5.25" floppy drive makes life soooooooo much easier.

 

[SiliconAddict]

All this speculation about Intel one upping Apple is nil; Intel admitted last week they have hit the wall. They've overclocked the P4 as much as can be done. Prescott runs at 100 watts and an engineering bulletin warns of cracking the chip due to the heat it generates. While Intel scrambles to stay afloat Apple has all the options; it has paths from both FreeScale and IBM and there is no point in putting all of its chips (eggs) in one basket. For Apple the skies are blue and the horizon bright; for Intel it's dusk and smoggy.

Ummm dude. That is why the Pentium M is going to be tweaked for used in desktops in the future. (Check that, NEAR future.) The Pentium 4 sucks. This isn't a question anymore. It just does. Period. Stop debating it. It just does OK? The Pentium M scales damn well for a laptop chips now stick that sucker in a desktop, add more L1/L2 cache, jack up the chip speed, and watch it blow anything that was released under the P4 name out of the water. The people who developed the P4 should be embarrassed as hell that a chip designed for a laptop outperforms their "top of the line" CPU.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Anyway, I predict (drumroll)... a tablet Powerbook TBA.

If Apple announced that at WWDC they better have tissues on hand for the men in the audience.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Um, it should read "most ignorant Americans.." I am not one of these


but I think all advertising plays on impulse so...

Anyway, I predict (drumroll)... a tablet Powerbook TBA.

/fire when ready, Gridley

I may be ignorant and an American, but I am not... what was the other thing he said.

Seriously, I have been under the impression that the Tablet market is not really all that big right now. While it would be neat for Apple to expand there offerings in this way, I don't see where it would really be a spectacular announcement. How many people need or even want Tablet PC's? Seems like a pretty small market that is not going to help Apple move that 3% number up very much.

(waiting for posts of people explaining that they would buy a PowerBook tablet in a heartbeat)

 

[stockscalper]

It would be so wonderful if Apple did announce a new 64 bit chip for the Powerbook, but let's be realistic - it ain't going to happen! Before every one of these shows wild rumors like this always circulate. Remember, changes in chip technology has always been evolutionary, not revolutionary. Plus, the Powerbook was just upgraded. What is long overdue for an upgrade is the imac and what is getting overdue is the Power Mac. So expect upgrades to be announced for those two lines and stay tuned for something for the Powerbooks this fall.

 

[G4-power]

So, to sum up, Americans in particular are ignorant about technology; you can't market to these people with abstract ads.

Well, maybe, but here in Finland most people have never even heard of Macs or Apple Computer, and those friends of mine who've heard about Macs are like "Oh, that computer that has a built-in monitor, what Windows does it run?" That's quite sad.

And Apple ads in Finland, well, there's none. Most new Mac users here have heard about them from friends who've used Macs.