Xbox 360 demos on Macs

[thebassist]

biggest win for apple

the biggest win for apple isn't in the form of the processor from IBM. It's the fact that Developers ordered powermacs for development. Lets say that 2000 developers ordered G5 powermacs for development. That's at least twice what apple would normally sell in a year.

More sells for apple is always good.

 

[makey]

LOL ... Thought I would never see the day where a Microsoft sticker is placed on a PowerMac. It is real sad when Microsoft cannot even rely on their own Operating System and apps.

 

[thatwendigo]

And to be honest, it really doesn't matter - there is an assumption here that for some reason Apple is winning something because Microsoft is resorting to using similar CPUs to those that appear in Apple machines. That may have been a more valid claim if the 360 included a version of OS X, but it doesn't. It will most definitely be one of the more modern variants of Windows CE. And even so, why the hell does it matter??

I'm going to have to skip down to a latter comment you make to tell you why it matters, at least to many of the people here, by addressing your newness to the mac scene. There isn't a good analogy I can come up with to try to paint this into a pretty picture, so I'm going to go with the flat, bald truth as I see it.

The main reason that this is seen as any kind of "victory" by the people who are passionate enough about their platform to be hanging out at a rumors site (there's a big hint for you) is that we have spent years and years watching the lies and marketing try to bury our chosen platform. Intel and Microsoft have been in collusion to run anyone and anything that opposes them right out of the market. It's true that the Macintosh has lagged at times in terms of hardware, even at some things in software, but the experience as a whole has been one we consider to be superior. What is not true is that we're all ignorant, as a majority of people that you hear this "zealotry" from have experience with Windows in some form and don't like it one bit. Not all of them are eloquent or witty in expressing their distaste, but that should hardly reflect on the machine itself.

Do you base your purchasing decisions on the fact that some kid with a Honda likes to have a big, fat tailpipe and an unnecessary wing on his car? How about when he tells stories you might know are misinformed, at best?

Get the picture? Sorry about the analogy, though. I did say I'd stay away from those.

But anyhoo - I'm kinda surprised by the biggotry i'm seeing here, I am a game developer, and an avid windows user - but I want to try out Macs (specifically the Powerbooks) because I truly believe they are awesome machines.

Pot, meet kettle.

Calling yourself an "avid windows user" and then criticising macintosh users is just a bit disengenuous, wouldn't you say?

I'm a newby to the Mac world, and I probably would need to ask for help at some stage, but I don't want to do it while hearing all this rubbish about Apple being so damn awesome, there not - neither is microsoft - they just both happen to create tools that let us get some work done at the end of the day.

If the tool is superior, what's wrong with pointing that out? In many ways, OS X beats the crap out of Windows XP, at least from the standpoint of the people using it. In some more objective ways - security, viruses and malware, etc - it's even provable that the platform beats Redmond's offering.

I'd rather have a tool I knew wouldn't break and pay for it than get one more cheaply and not be able to rely on it when I need it.

 

[Foniks Munkee]

Pot, meet kettle.

Calling yourself an "avid windows user" and then criticising macintosh users is just a bit disengenuous, wouldn't you say?

But I WANT to be a Mac user - and i was trying to stay neutral in about this (hence the right tool for the job comment) - my point is, neither is better (they both have faults), its what works for you.

Anyway, it is kinda old news, everyone knows that MS has been using Macs for years, what do you think they developed the Mac version of Office on? They even have a department that uses Linux - and they also spent time working on FreeBSD for some of their compiler technology.

I just don't understand how such a small user base can harbour so much anger - I'm an IT professional (ex sys-admin, currently a game developer) that works with hundreds of IT users, all working in a predominantly windows environment. But none of them bash Mac - in fact, most of them wish for the sleek lines and well designed hardware of the Mac. They have iPods in their pockets and iBooks in their laptop cases.

OS X beats the crap out of Windows XP

Well, in SOME respects your right (that argument goes both ways), bar one very important factor. There are bugger all games for OS X. And you can have the best operating system in the world, but if there is no software for it (as in, the software you are most interested in - I know there is a lot of good Mac software), your screwed. I mean, even your best office suite comes from Microsoft... sheesh - And as for XP, it really isn't that bad - I love it, it works really well, i've NEVER in 15 years of using MS products had a virus, and the most important thing for me, I can pick and choose my hardware and it works, from the brand of network card to the brand of motherboard. Busted motherboard? No problem, $120 AUD later and 20 minutes of work, new computer.

By Comparison, I believe most Mac logic boards run into something like $700 Australian, and depending on where you live, takes up to two weeks to fix (my housemate is an apple certified tech, but I'm doing these figures from memory).

But again, this is not an attack on Mac, they are different, their goals are different - these are just facts - I see some awesome positives:

1 - They look great and have a pretty high build quality
2 - OS X is a pretty darn stable os, and based on FreeBSD (i was a FreeBSD admin - love BSD and Darwin)
3 - The laptops are comparitively cheaper for the similar specced PC laptops

But please, just cos this is a mac forum, you don't have to bash MS, I came here to learn something about Macs not to hear that everything I based my life on over the last 15 years is crap.

 

[Foniks Munkee]

What is not true is that we're all ignorant, as a majority of people that you hear this "zealotry" from have experience with Windows in some form and don't like it one bit.

By the way, i'm not saying your all ignorant, far from it. As I said, my housemate and best friend is a Mac user - I want to be a Mac user - and alot of what I've read on this forum has been very eloquent and well informed.

I'm just confused how I can't go two posts without reading how crap MS is. Even if it were true, what point does it service to keep mentioning it - it's just odd is all. It actually reminds me of the pointless wars people get into over C++ and Java - both great programming languages, both designed for totally different jobs - and yet there is such a war over which one is best. Its a weird, pointless excercise that just serves to anger everyone.

Proud of your platform or not - your not comparing apples with apples (so to speak) - the two systems have very different paradigms, and the corporations behind them different goals.

Anway, its good to have Apple around, keeps MS on their toes.

 

[Tech^salvager]

LOL ... Thought I would never see the day where a Microsoft sticker is placed on a PowerMac. It is real sad when Microsoft cannot even rely on their own Operating System and apps.

what makes you think that their not using their own OS on the PowerMac?
They could be using a powerpc version of a embedded OS like CE or XP embedded.

 

[Tech^salvager]

It just means it'll be easier to do than were the XBox 360 based on a different processor. It doesn't mean it's likely to happen.

Look at the current scenario. The XBox has a whole load of stock PC hardware in it, but has anyone made an XBox emulator for the PC? Nope.

cxbx is a emulator I believe.

 

[Tamer Brad]

If microsoft can push that kind of graphic power out the door at game machine prices (300 to 400 max), there would be no need for anybody to buy a mac mini, imac, or any other intel/amd type machine. This new machine does everything my computer can do and better (as far as every day life things like pictures, movies, games ( and yes people it will do email and surf the net -- microsoft just waiting for Sony's move at E3 before whip'n out all their guns and ammo on table). Face the facts, if you can plug a web camera in any of the Three usb ports, you can plug a keyboard, mouse, and printer too. I don't care how loyal you are, you would be stupid as a consumer to pass up a 400 dollar (better to be pessimistic on price) PC killer.

Thankfully, Apple has access to the same technology.

LETS hope they use it (and not charge a premium for it)

Agh. The stupid, it hurts my head.

These are not PC's. PC's do not sell at a loss. Please just ... stop. I can't take it anymore.

 

[Rod Rod]

MWAHAHAHH microsoft has to use the apple's g5!!! HAHAHAH thats so freakin funny!

Apparently this was news to you. Just about everyone else knew about it for a year (give or take) already.

That's the funniest thing ever. They're basically saying, ho hum, "we'll replace it with something better". Yeah right! They've moved to the mac-side! Ha ha! Excellent! Just when will Apple adopt the three core, 3.2 ghz cpu?! There must be some differences between the MS powerPC and the Mac version? Or not?

They haven't "moved to the mac-side" at all. They're using Mac hardware to develop specialized software which is designed to run on specialized hardware (which in turn is not yet widely available). The three core 3.2GHz CPU is not going to have a "Mac version."

the biggest win for apple isn't in the form of the processor from IBM. It's the fact that Developers ordered powermacs for development. Lets say that 2000 developers ordered G5 powermacs for development. That's at least twice what apple would normally sell in a year.

More sells for apple is always good.

I respect newbies because I was one myself not too long ago, but this particular thread has brought out an unusual number of gems.

According to thebassist, Apple would have only sold 2000 Power Mac G5s in all of 2004 except for Microsoft's decision to run the XBox 360 developer's kit on dual-processor PM G5s. thebassist, I know you phrased it as a hypothetical but even so, there are far more PM G5 Mac OS X users than PM G5 XBox 360 developers.

 

[thebassist]

maybe 2001 powermacs sold in a year

Those is jokes: yo
I was foolin'

 

[Tamer Brad]

http://lowendmac.com/musings/05/0513.html

*speechless from the stupid*

 

[Rod Rod]

http://lowendmac.com/musings/05/0513.html

*speechless from the stupid*

I agree. That article belongs in that site's "Lighter Side" section. Mr. Knight doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[stephenli]

It just means it'll be easier to do than were the XBox 360 based on a different processor. It doesn't mean it's likely to happen.

Look at the current scenario. The XBox has a whole load of stock PC hardware in it, but has anyone made an XBox emulator for the PC? Nope.

how about using xBox360 to emulate Mac?!
multicore 3.2Ghz CPU+++++

 

[Rod Rod]

how about using xBox360 to emulate Mac?!
multicore 3.2Ghz CPU+++++

Please read the other threads on this site about why the XBox 360's 3.2GHz PPC would be pathetic running Mac OS X.

As emulation goes, the most likely scenario is that someone will figure out how to run Linux on it, followed immediately by Mac on Linux.

 

[AidenShaw]

OSX - the game

how about using xBox360 to emulate Mac?!
multicore 3.2Ghz CPU+++++

Just write a game that behaves like OSX - you're done !

 

[osprey54]

If microsoft needed a powerpc platform, then why not just use IBMs own blade servers offering 970s? I wonder what software they were using for development or if they were just using the basic Darwin core with the development tools running on top of it. I wonder what intel thinks about this move

Hey, maybe these PowerPCs could be the infamous 750vx processor that IBM was developing (not likely)

Also, a little off topic, since the POWER architecture is now open source, doesn't that mean that ANYONE, including Intel, can now develop their own PowerPC processors?

With the announcement of the PS3 and Revolution, it looks like the 5th generation of processors will be dominated by IBM.

 

[JustinCaseiMac]

So much for Powermac sales, why did they bother with that update when things so much better are obviously 6 months away

Better things to come...WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? That makes NO sence

 

[Rod Rod]

Better things to come...WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? That makes NO sence

It's just another person who's confusing the XBox 360's processor with the G5. Some people would rather post than read.

 

[iriejedi]

Why PS3 looks better

cxbx is a emulator I believe.

Well if it has not already been mentioned - the reason PS3 was touted as having MUCH better graphice than the XBOX 360 is because it was NOT demoed on the MAC! Just about anything else has better graphics drivers! IMHO!

 

[Dragonopolis]

PC Killer

Why does the current crop of Mac Users seemed so concerned about the Processor. Is it not Apple who pushed to educated consumers that processor speed, etc..., wasn't everything and what you do with the processor is what's important. Who cares if Xbox 360, Sony's PS3, even Revolution ( although technically nintendo isn't pushing the digital hub thing) don't have the 970xx chip. Consumers want a machine that will play their DVD's, Movies, Surf the net, Chat, Voice Chat, and yes gaming with relative ease. Not only that, but the new crop of HDTV ready TV's, at times, are better at displaying graphics than the current inexpensive and midrange monitors that consumers usually buy when they purchase a computer. Game systems have grownup so have tv's. The advantages PC today have have dwindle considerably. These systems aim to not only play games, but be able to do what
we all do on our computers everyday. Apple needs to realize this market is maturing and will definitely lure many Intel/Winbloze away (pun not intend } who could initially be Mac users (Maybe even lure some Mac users). Most entry level and midrange computer shoppers just want to use their system and don't care about the the OS in general. Most PC games on Intel Platform don't even need to use OS specific calls ( that's the shell enviroment for the technically challenge). For all you Mac bashers on this site check out Carapace at Sharpe-shell.org. The program will load an application or game without out the need to use Winbloze.

This opinion is not to bash Mac or Apple, I love my Powermac, but to bring awareness and concern to the Mac community. It's just as much our responsibility to win over our Winbloze counterparts as is Apple's. These new hybrid game systems will definitely hurt Intel/AMD and could even draw/hurt apples low, mid, and gaming market. There will always be a need to have Workstations ( i.e PowerMac) and Notebooks for work and school, but we mac users need powerful cheap easy to use no fuss digital media hubs Cooked and Served in Apple fashion. Not a waterdown version of the Powermac ( mac mini, iMac )but a true media/gaming experience for Cheap. It is our responsibility as mac consumers to tell Apple we need this type of device in our homes. I have a feeling most people will shrug off this warning -- just as the market did with the iPod. Now look at the iPod now. Let's hope Apple and Mac Users don't turn a blind eye.

Definite a buyer of both a PS3 and Xbox 360 when they come out. (Apple take a Hint)

 

[killmoms]

This opinion is not to bash Mac or Apple, I love my Powermac, but to bring awareness and concern to the Mac community. It's just as much our responsibility to win over our Winbloze counterparts as is Apple's. These new hybrid game systems will definitely hurt Intel/AMD and could even draw/hurt apples low, mid, and gaming market. There will always be a need to have Workstations ( i.e PowerMac) and Notebooks for work and school, but we mac users need powerful cheap easy to use no fuss digital media hubs Cooked and Served in Apple fashion. Not a waterdown version of the Powermac ( mac mini, iMac )but a true media/gaming experience for Cheap. It is our responsibility as mac consumers to tell Apple we need this type of device in our homes. I have a feeling most people will shrug off this warning -- just as the market did with the iPod. Now look at the iPod now. Let's hope Apple and Mac Users don't turn a blind eye.

Definite a buyer of both a PS3 and Xbox 360 when they come out. (Apple take a Hint)

In the same way that I think the "computer" aspects of this new crop of consoles will not take off, I think Apple entering the console market would be suicide. Steve Jobs has always pooh poohed the idea of integrating the TV and the computer, and has publicly stated on several occasions that he thinks Windows Media Center PCs are a stupid idea. I'd certainly agree, since for the most part I only hear of geeks using them, not the "average consumer." Yes, the Xbox 360 might be able to browse the internet and do e-mail, but who cares? 99% of people are going to use it to play games, not that other stuff. I can't think of anyone who would use it for this—they get it for the games. I think this whole "convergence" idea is misguided, and so does Apple. That's why the iPod is a digital music player, not a digital music player + FM tuner + video player + network music server + camera + toaster.

Apple MAY move into a dedicated streaming video/audio device to replace the Airport Express as it currently exists, but I don't see them entering the "set-top box" arena at all, certainly not for gaming. The Mac will remain a computer, though it's a digital media "hub" or server, and I think we'll see that role increase and shift some in the coming years, but they'll keep it pretty delineated.

 

[Dragonopolis]

To Cless

All hail the mighty Steve Jobs. He isn't perfect-- smart -- but not perfect. He may have dogged the Windows Media Thing in the past but that doesn't change the fact the sony and microsoft are going to be selling millions of these units at 300 to 500 dollars a pop and not counting the software royalties that these incredible systems are going to pull in.

Meanwhile Sony and Microsoft are smiling all the way to the bank

Hmmm bet some of those sales are mac owners.

Apple had the technology -- could of (and still can if they wanted to) been the one lauching a similiar system. Millions of people would have flocked (no doubt apple would have done it right).

Remember Apple is a hardware company and we are talking hardware. Apple miss out on a very lucrative market.
Just because Steve Jobs said it was stupid doesn't stop the fact that millions of people are going to buy these units anyway. My opinion -- Steve said that out of frustration because he didn't get to it first.

Face the facts -- the tv is a more accessble than the computer in a home.

People are generally lazy -- Why go all the way to the small corner of a room or office when right there in front of them is a game console that can do the same thing with similar performance. Cable is right there for high speed access (heck with all them satellite owners now there's probably a phone jack near the tv center too)

for those of us who are not lazy -- we have are own personal reasons -- I give you one of mine.

I have two boys. One 6 and the other 8 years old. If I do not have a physical presence in my home they, like alot of boys, will tend to get out of control at times. I also have chores I have to do (wash clothes, make dinner, etc..) and it get's real frustrating and time consuming as a single parent with kids to go from one side of the house to the other. My living room/ Family Room is pretty much a center of all that is going on in my home and a place that is easy to monitor just about every activity that goes on (including my back yard). Computers today just don't fit into the Living Room/ family room Life style. I was a carpet cleaner for 2 years and a Satellite Installer for 8 months and I have been in a lot of homes and alot of people must feel the same way because I rarely saw a computer placed in such rooms. Most of the time it was either a bedroom, or for the more fortunate, a spare bedroom or home office.

Now, I'm not going to stop gaming, watching movies, or surfing the net, so it's seems to me that someone who has enough common sense to know that convenience sells will make a computer or a gaming console fit into my ever so convenient Living/Family room and do all the things I need it to do Electronically. So far, the only Companies that seem to see this is the game consoles -- more power to them.

However, there is one thing I feel I was incorrect in my last opinion and that is the need for low end mac mini type computers. The new crop of game consoles are impressive, but I doubt they'll do any type of Word Processing or home office applications for those of us who need them. Thankfully These Program don't require alot of graphic power and can be run quite nicely from such machines. A $500 dollar Mac mini and $400 dollars for a monitor, keyboard, mouse and printer would do just fine.

 

[weg]

Forget it... NT is dead ... and they are not going to use any of that old muddy code any where!

Actually the XP kernel is based on the code of the NT kernel, and the code is quite nice... Dave Cutler did a good job.

 

[djdarlek]

and now we see a flood of new games heading to the mac, taking away another reason why people think the pc is better.

More importantly, this is the first games generation where the consoles will eclipse the high-end PC users! Even alienware users would be hard pushed to keepup with the graphics from an xbox360/ps3. This could be devestating for M$, seeing as this would leave windows users without their main reason for putting up with Windows OS; Games.

 

[osprey54]

Apple had the technology -- could of (and still can if they wanted to) been the one lauching a similiar system. Millions of people would have flocked (no doubt apple would have done it right).

You do realize that microsoft and sony will be LOSING money on the 360 and PS3, right? The xbox was only able to compete because microsoft backed it up with billions of dollars. If apple entered the games arena, they would not be able to do this.

More importantly, this is the first games generation where the consoles will eclipse the high-end PC users! Even alienware users would be hard pushed to keepup with the graphics from an xbox360/ps3. This could be devestating for M$, seeing as this would leave windows users without their main reason for putting up with Windows OS; Games

Ahh, but whereas these consoles are goig to maintain the same stats for the next 3 years or so, computer technology will be continually upgrading and is bound to leave the consoles in the dust within a cool 6-12 months.

I don't know about anybody else here, but i would not use a console for anything besides games. But I do think that the media center is a good idea and apple should at least have something similar to it.