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Xbox Cloud Gaming 'Absolutely Will End Up on iOS,' Says Microsoft Gaming Boss

69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
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In between a rock and a hard place
I don't think Apple will allow dynamic code streamed from the cloud to be executed on IOS (and I can't blame them). To much of a free ride for an attack vector.
Free ride for an attack vector? ← Is that a direct reference to something specific or a do you have a source for the reasoning? As @Stella mentioned, there's no executable code being streamed. It's an H.265 stream.
 
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Unregistered 4U

macrumors 68000
Jul 22, 2002
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but you also do the same when you select or deselect subtitles from your iPhone while watching a Netflix movie.
Subtitles are streaming, too. All you’re doing is choosing which stream to display on your screen, OR whether to display them at all.
when soon all workloads will run on the internet in cloud data centers?
Which NEVER fail! And, on top of that, folks’ internet connections never fail either!
didn't I just read a day or two ago that MSFT is joining epic etc on the front against the App Store?
Epic Games WISHES this were true, but MSFT isn’t going to be joining Epic’s Coalition.
 
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69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
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In between a rock and a hard place
What they are doing is innovating. Unlike the fiasco with the other game developer not wanting to pay the 30% they are looking for a solution by any technical means at their disposal.

If they had their platform to push XCloud, XCloud could potentially poach iOS users. The financial hit of putting it only on Apple wouldn't be as big if they had 20 million MS phone users signing up for XCloud. Apple does what they want with their mothership and MS does not have a mothership for this. Sucks for them.
None of this makes any sense. You say it's innovating. Agree to disagree. I say it's fallback plan since their desire for a native iOS app got nixed. Poach iOS users? Putting it only on Apple? I don't know what you're talking about here. If MS had 20 million Windows phone users they wouldn't be signing up for XCloud. They'd be on Game Pass. XCloud brings Microsoft's game ecosystem to other ecosystems. This hypothetical really isn't even worth discussing imo.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
24,219
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Gotta be in it to win it
Free ride for an attack vector? ← Is that a direct reference to something specific or a do you have a source for the reasoning? As @Stella mentioned, there's no executable code being streamed. It's an H.265 stream.
The word “think” represents an opinion. Maybe a bad one at that, but an opinion nevertheless.
 
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lip008

macrumors member
Mar 4, 2012
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None of this makes any sense. You say it's innovating. Agree to disagree. I say it's fallback plan since their desire for a native iOS app got nixed. Poach iOS users? Putting it only on Apple? I don't know what you're talking about here. If MS had 20 million Windows phone users they wouldn't be signing up for XCloud. They'd be on Game Pass. XCloud brings Microsoft's game ecosystem to other ecosystems. This hypothetical really isn't even worth discussing imo.

Was busy working and didn't proofread. I meant if MS had their own platform for Game Pass. It would give them another option then what they cornered themselves into now.
 
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Unregistered 4U

macrumors 68000
Jul 22, 2002
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Microsoft has gripes, but they NEVER going to join Epic’s Coalition. You’ll never see their logo here.

Why? Likely, from the article you posted, due to this:
However, Microsoft is not applying the app-store principles to its Xbox store. That’s because game consoles “are specialized devices optimized for a particular use,” according to Alaily.

Plus, they know that Epic’s next target would likely be them.
 
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69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
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In between a rock and a hard place
The word “think” represents an opinion. Maybe a bad one at that, but an opinion nevertheless.
Probably a bad interpretation by me, but your quote reads as if you "think" Apple won't allow it. Your reasoning for the prohibition is too much a free ride for an attack vector. That second sentence doesn't read as if it represents an opinion. It reads as if you're stating a fact that there is an attack vector possible. Even taken as a whole, the context of the entire quote seems to imply attack vector as a fact. Again, I could be reading it wrong. If so, apologies.
 
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BuddyRich

macrumors regular
Mar 21, 2012
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Yes, of course, a PWA or web-based solution, ala Google's Stadia, has mainly two -solvable- challenges: controller support, which is done at the OS level in iOS and Macs, but, I dont know ATM if a PWA would have access to the inputs, and second, make use of the correct codec (h265, vp8, etc.) to target the video hardware decoding for minimum latency and best performance. As I said, IMHO these two challenges can be overcomed. Maybe someone with more experience on developing PWA's can step in to give feedback on this.

Just to add a bit of context, my understanding on why Google Stadia launched requiring its own gamepad has to do with it connecting directly to Google's cloud, thus avoiding the issue of receiving the input from the browser's host OS. In that scenario (you connect a special controller directly to the service, the video displays the input) you could run the service on anything with a compatible web browser, compatible meaning supporting hardware acceleration of your chosen codec.

I really wish I did this in iOS13 before upgrading to iOS14, but the site gamepad-tester.com supports the HTML5 GamePad API. On my iPad Pro, it had no problem detecting my DS4. It even had the analog triggers so Gamepads should work on mobile safari. The only thing that might not work would be rumble. Site mentions that only Chrome implements support for that.

As to the codec, H264 should be enough for streaming (its all steamlink used for example) for 720p/1080p... HEVC would be good for better performance and 4K though.... though MS gamepass is limited to 720p currently anyway. Hopefully MS can get this up and running quickly.
 
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NightFox

macrumors 68020
May 10, 2005
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Shropshire, UK
still cannot believe Apples answer was to upload all games for review

The most stupid thing about this stance from Apple is they would have no control over the games once they'd reviewed/approved them - so MS could push a fluffy-bunny game through Apple's approval process but then add hordes of killer Nazi zombies to it a week later as a server-side update without any change to the actual iOS app itself, so no re-approval required.
 
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monkeybongo

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Sep 13, 2007
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Canada
I just tried xCloud this week as I just got the xbox ultimate game pass ... I like the game subscription but cloud game seems a gimmick. Why run a game at full detail and resolution in a device in a data centre so the video gets compressed and my controls are laggy onto my tiny phone. I'd just prefer to play a game natively on my Nintendo Switch or portable devices and just deal with the lower detail and have responsive controls.
 
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Pman17

macrumors 6502
Mar 12, 2011
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Galveston, TX
I think it will come to the App Store eventually. Game Streaming is not as legit as Netflix, but when it is, Apple will have to allow it. The web app will raise awareness.
 
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Scipster

macrumors member
Aug 13, 2020
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Let's be real, the security risk that xCloud poses is to Apple's bottom line. It directly competes with Apple Arcade, and there is no way Apple will allow direct competition on the App Store. Moving to a browser based stream is not an innovation, it's a fallback plan. It's not an app, but a web service, just like OnLive. All this means that Apple still holds a monopoly on the app marketplace for iOS/iPadOS devices, because a web service is not a native app. It simply can't make use of all the native developer kits and library and it is not actually installed on the OS. Moving to a steaming service isn't another way to get apps on the device, it's a completely different category that wouldn't be necessary if Apple just let in competition aka security threats.

What I really want to know is when is Apple going to boot Netflix, Hulu, and HBO, etc for providing the same service as Apple TV+. I mean, if the logic is the same, producers who want their content to be shown on Apple devices should have to sign exclusive contracts with Apple instead.
 
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jz0309

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2018
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Temecula, CA
Microsoft has gripes, but they NEVER going to join Epic’s Coalition. You’ll never see their logo here.

Why? Likely, from the article you posted, due to this:


Plus, they know that Epic’s next target would likely be them.
You have some good points, just to me at this point there is not enough clarity to rule anything out. Plus MSFT as other large companies, the left doesn’t always know and agree what the right is saying. And to the best of my knowledge, Nadella (?) hasn’t commented yet
 
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Unregistered 4U

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Jul 22, 2002
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Plus MSFT as other large companies, the left doesn’t always know and agree what the right is saying.
In this case, I doubt it. Primarily by the fact that they ran this at LEAST through enough groups internally (legal, PR, etc.) to ensure they messaged their displeasure with Apple while, at the same time, providing their standard “pat answer” for why they do NOT plan to follow the same rules for Xbox. That’s a very clear indication that while some of what Epic wants, SPECIFICALLY related to Apple, Microsoft MAY be on board with, they are NOT going to join any group that’s broadly pushing for a model that doesn’t align with their vision for Xbox. Nadella doesn’t have to say anything, that’s what they pay Rima Alaily, Microsoft VP and deputy general counsel (i.e. legal) to write blog posts for. :)
 
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Unregistered 4U

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Jul 22, 2002
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A quote from Rima Alally’s blog.
First:
We and others have raised questions and, at times, expressed concerns about app stores on other digital platforms. However, we recognize that we should practice what we preach.
Followed by... buuuuuut, you know. We’re totally not gonna do that :)
Console makers such as Microsoft invest significantly in developing dedicated console hardware but sell them below cost or at very low margins to create a market that game developers and publishers can benefit from.
See, the problem is that Apple hasn’t invested significantly, Tim rolls over in the morning to find magical invoices for their products that will ship to their distribution centers, free of charge (this is a fact I’m sure that everyone is aware of). Even selling an iPhone for $1 is 100% above cost.
 
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Avalanche66

macrumors newbie
Oct 23, 2012
23
-1
Meaning i dont need an xbox console to enjoy the games?

i dont get how they plan on making money on this if its how i think it will be.

im a Sony guy, if i want to play an XB Exclusive i would normally need to buy a console and the game...so ur telling me, all i have to do is DL the App, and do a 1month subscription to game pass to play what i want then cancel?
 
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cocky jeremy

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Jul 12, 2008
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Absolutely it will. Other companies will see build on their solution and bypass the Apple's app store completely. Apple will make some sort of compromise to get it in to their app store.
[automerge]1602253481[/automerge]

So how does that not result in a loss for Apple? 🤔
Apple doesn't care if it's in the App Store. They have millions of apps bringing them billions a year. This just discredits the BS about Apple being a monopoly. Clearly, you can work around them.
[automerge]1602270593[/automerge]
it is cos they wont earn a dime lol
Apple isn't worried about dimes. They spend billions like it's nothing.
 
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Unregistered 4U

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Jul 22, 2002
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Meaning i dont need an xbox console to enjoy the games?

i dont get how they plan on making money on this if its how i think it will be.

im a Sony guy, if i want to play an XB Exclusive i would normally need to buy a console and the game...so ur telling me, all i have to do is DL the App, and do a 1month subscription to game pass to play what i want then cancel?
The point isn’t that they’re making ’less’ money, it’s that they’re making MORE than zero money :) Yes, buying the hardware and the game would be better, but for many, that’s too much to pay, so they don’t. However, $14.99 is a fine price to pay and that’s $14.99 that they wouldn’t have otherwise gotten from from someone that‘s in the Sony ecosystem. AND, they didn’t have to ship you a console to do it.

So, if you’re the type that can wait for the games to show up on the service, then good deal! However, if you want to play NEW exclusives, I think those will still be hardware tied (either Windows PC or Xbox).
 
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rom3o

macrumors regular
Dec 22, 2014
186
226
Its okay to have (basically) a remote desktop app in iOS that remotes to a machine you own (that is what the PlayStation 4 has on the App Store - and a different app Microsoft is working to bring out for the Xbox).

Had Microsoft pushed along that line originally - remote to your xBox and then expanded it as a remote desktop to the xBox your renting on their servers there probably wouldn't have been any problem. But they went with Stadia streaming (which Apple is blocking) PR stuff and here they are.

I don’t see why it would make a difference to start with a RDC app that complies with guideline 4.2.7 and later add ‘illegal’ streaming.

If Sony was to secretly include PS Now streaming into the PS4 Remote Play app, Apple would likely pull it immediately when finding out about it.
 
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szw-mapple fan

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Jul 28, 2012
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Good to hear they're working on a way getting around it. It will be Apple's loss in the end.

Not really Apple's loss either way since iOS users will still end up getting it and Apple wouldn't have been earning from it anyways if they treated this like Netflix content.
 
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Unregistered 4U

macrumors 68000
Jul 22, 2002
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Good to hear they're working on a way getting around it. It will be Apple's loss in the end.
Me, too. The sooner people STOP thinking about the iPhone as the default system everyone HAS to develop for, the better. Innovation is being stifled because, instead of doing something BETTER, folks just want to ride the coattails of one of the minor players that just happens to have built a system where people feel comfortable attaching their credit card numbers to.
 
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jaworskimatt

macrumors regular
Sep 3, 2019
234
308
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
If MS innovated like this work around on their phone platform they wouldn't be in this predicament to begin with...

Their reaction to iPhone was „hehehe nobody will buy a phone with no keyboard, because the only people worth selling to are businessmen”. So, they missed the chance, same as Nokia and Blackberry. Been two stes behind ever since, no wonder they have to „innovate” now to put their stuff on someone elses platform.
 
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