Y Combinator Files Brief Supporting Epic Games, Says App Store Fees Stifle Startups

[Unregistered 4U]

True, but Walmart produces Sam's Cola. It's their product. It's their right to sell it in the store they please.

Coca Cola is made by an independent company. They have the right to sell it in any store they please, too.

But when it comes to iDevices, creators and consumers have no choice but to sell and buy all products in one store.

But when it comes to Smartphones, of which Android is far and away the market leader, creators and consumers have lots and lots of choices. It’s VERY easy to avoid Apple entirely and pay their 15% or whatever to other stores.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Same. I know nothing whatsoever about Y combinator, but "venture capital firm" is right up there with "private equity", as far as I'm concerned.

Ah, that’s what I was wondering. If this is successful, then THEY get to take whatever percentage doesn’t go to Apple, so they stand to make a lot of money if this goes through. Thanks for the info.

 

[germanbeer007]

Other option, use only stock iOS apps.

why would startups use only stock iOS apps? this makes no sense.

 

[jinnj]

+ all the money saved from using Apple Maps vs paying tens of thousands of dollars/month to Google Maps

DUDE You just triggered PTSD!

True, but Walmart produces Sam's Cola. It's their product. It's their right to sell it in the store they please.

Coca Cola is made by an independent company. They have the right to sell it in any store they please, too.

But when it comes to iDevices, creators and consumers have no choice but to sell and buy all products in one store.

Except you can't get your product in a store just because you make it. Walmart has to accept your product. Also Coke can't put up signs at Walmart stating that it's cheaper at Costco. Almost like the store owner can pick and choose.

Ask Epic how much was their percentage when they sold Unreal Tournament at Best Buy.... Less than 30%.

 

[Michael0816]

It's absolutely hilarious how everybody has seem to forgot, how everyone was more than okay with the App Store rules and the 30% cut. And Apple and the iPhone basically still was nothing back then, when the App Store launched. So you can't even argue, that they could have forced amyone into the ecosystem.
😑

 

[SnowPenguin]

why would startups use only stock iOS apps? this makes no sense.

I think he meant the consumers.

 

[thebozz]

What I don’t understand about Epic’s approach is why they aren’t challenging Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo over their online game stores. Don’t those platforms also take a cut of third-party game sales, just like Apple does?

 

[macfacts]

why would startups use only stock iOS apps? this makes no sense.

iPhone users have to use stock apps cause no devs want to make apps for iOS, cause it is too much work to make a smartphone platform as the user I quoted suggested doing.

 

[germanbeer007]

I think he meant the consumers.

which makes even less sense.

 

[germanbeer007]

iPhone users have to use stock apps cause no devs want to make apps for iOS, cause it is too much work to make a smartphone platform as the user I quoted suggested doing.

You quoted me. I offered options that a developer can do. You added another option to that list.

If a dev doesn't like Apple's policies, they should leave and another dev who likes Apple's policies would take over that space. The market handles these issues fine. Your option makes no sense for the user.

 

[applefan8254]

I just miss all the great early to mid 2010s iOS games we had like mega run, ninjatown trees of Doom, chop chop ninja, and the thousands of other smaller/ indie games. kinda wish apple could somehow court those devs back. make it into like a retro version of apple arcade or something. I miss going on the treadmill with music and playing those simple games to just kinda get me going. the games were usually easy enough to use the treadmill and had simple enough controls so it kind of begets the exersise. maybe that and how apple marketing was at the time with the tommy sparks ads and stuff. I miss that early 2010s marketing too. wish they'd bring that back as well.

 

[germanbeer007]

Series A funding for startups in the US is around $20M on average. If they don’t manage to reach more than $1M of annual revenue in that phase, they are likely to fail. Series A is usually the most difficult time for a startup, working against the clock of the funding runway.

(Not that I’m personally a fan of that VC funding startup culture.)

Revenue would be before App Store cut anyways.

 

[RedWeasel]

Series A funding for startups in the US is around $20M on average. If they don’t manage to reach more than $1M of annual revenue in that phase, they are likely to fail. Series A is usually the most difficult time for a startup, working against the clock of the funding runway.

(Not that I’m personally a fan of that VC funding startup culture.)

But that's more of a problem of the way venture capital works, not of Apple and their ecosystem. The latter might be more suited to bootstrapped startups maybe.

I can see that this might be a problem for Y Combinator and their "let's throw startups at the wall and see what sticks" business model, but they obviously have a huge bias in this discussion.

 

[RedWeasel]

Not only do you have to buy a Mac just to develop anything for iPhone, iPad, or Mac, but that still isn’t enough for Apple, they also demand 30% of your profits, which is more than most multi-million–dollar investors would ever ask for!

At least as far as I know, you also cannot develop Android software on an Android phone, at least not properly. The official Android Studio needs a PC (Windows or Linux) or a Mac.

You also cannot develop native Windows software on anything else than Windows, or again, at least not without huge efforts and problems.

So yeah. You do have to buy a Mac to develop anything for iPhone. Which could be a Mac mini. If this is an investment that is a huge problem for your business, your business probably has bigger issues.

 

[svish]

Cannot say that only minimal value is added by Apple. Unfortunately after all this, the companies are still not passing the benefits to the customers. In app subscriptions are not becoming cheaper just because direct link to external sites are allowed.

 

[mrochester]

True, but Walmart produces Sam's Cola. It's their product. It's their right to sell it in the store they please.

Coca Cola is made by an independent company. They have the right to sell it in any store they please, too.

But when it comes to iDevices, creators and consumers have no choice but to sell and buy all products in one store.

A developer’s iOS app has to be sold in the iOS App Store. Any other app the developer makes can be sold wherever they like.

Also Coca Cola might actually make the Sam’s Cola. Many big brands make own label products for supermarkets that are only sold in the one store.

 

[CopiumWafu]

People here are surprised that a company that benefits from higher profit margins in App store is for lowering the fees on the app store? Come on...

 

[MacBirdy]

A developer’s iOS app has to be sold in the iOS App Store. Any other app the developer makes can be sold wherever they like.

Also Coca Cola might actually make the Sam’s Cola. Many big brands make own label products for supermarkets that are only sold in the one store.

Apple's business model relies on earning through sales in the App Store. If they earn less via the App Store because developers can start selling through other stores, Apple will have to change it's model to compensate for that, by for example charging enormous Developer program fees.