Yeeeee!!! (Scalpers beware)

[CrAkD]

I don't recall anyone mentioning these aspects of the argument against scalpers, but I haven't read every comment on the internet. Here goes anyway.

One very good reason to minimize the amount of scalping from Apple's point of view, especially by the new breed of pushy obnoxious PadGangs, is to maintain control over the buying experience for its non-scalping customer base.

Apple is all about control. Store wise, they have painstakingly designed evey conceivable aspect of how an Apple store looks, smells, and feels. They spend countless time and effort training their employees. They're marketing a buying experience and in-store atmosphere as much as anything else.

They've spared very little expense to create a slice of utopia for everyone who sets foot in an Apple store. It's an investment and it pays for itself in astronomic sales and cult like status among an ever increasing customer base.

Along with massive popularity comes opportunity seeking tail riders. These remora seek to get their slice of the Apple pie. But increasingly, they're disrupting the utopian buying experience. Today's iPad lines are not the happy go lucky friendly lines of 2007-8-9. They're becoming cutthroat. People are frustrated and getting ugly. There's pushing, shoving, line cutting, etc.

This is not what Apple wants for their precious manicured stores. Sure, they're making fast money, but is that really the end all? Where are the scalpers when the buzz dies down? Where are the giant lines for the iPod Nano? Macbooks? OSX? There are none. For months between iPad/iPhone launches, Apple is left with its REAL customer base, the customer base it's been striving to cultivate with the perfect in-store experience.

But are the REAL customers guaranteed to keep coming back after they brought their daughter to buy an iPad 10 days in a row this Spring and were repeatedly told, "Sorry, we just sold the last one to a shabby homeless looking man who doesn't even know what an iPad is?" Will they even stand in line with their daughter for the next product if they suspect a fight might break out?

And what about this fast money they're making? I submit that there are only so many customers on the planet for an iPad 2 in a 12 month period. They will not sell an infinite amount of iPad 2s before the iPad 3 comes out. I also submit that the closer an Apple retail store or dealer is to the factory, the more profit Apple makes…shorter shipping distances cost less. Thus, if 500,000 iPads were shipped to the US at considerable expense, but went right back to Asia on airplanes in the hands of scalpers, only to be sold to people who would have bought one directly from Apple when they came out in Asia in a month's time, Apple is losing money on each and every one of them. And in a month's time, those 500,000 people won't buy an iPad from Apple. They already have one. By selling to scalpers, they're not increasing sales, they're merely shifting some sales from one side of the planet to the other. Americans will get their iPads, Asians will get theirs. Apple sells the same amount all told, but pisses off their customer base in the interim.

all good points.

 

[splitzkreen]

yup... my thoughts exactly

 

[Blorzoga]

They are waiting JUST as long as everybody else, buying the EXACT same 2 everybody else is allotted, paying the EXACT same price... Banning them is not fair or logical.

I believe Apple has an authorized reseller program which enables participants to purchase from Apple at wholesale prices but which also places strict limitations on what prices can be charged to consumers. If people are going to try to circumvent the reseller process then Apple has every right to limit purchases if it believes an unauthorized reseller is trying to purchase iPads.

 

[iRabbit]

Regardless of me thoughts on scalpers in general, I have no idea how asking for ID helps. The iPad gangs of NYC can just use different people everyday.

And btw, my apple store didn't ask for ID but they did ask for an email address when I bought mine. Like anything else, it could be faked. So can IDs.

 

[jb007clone]

There are only three ways Apple can stop this:

1) Is if they go back to requiring credit cards, and that's not gonna happen.

2) Is if they do global product launches, which is pretty much unfeasible.

3) Apple is going to severely, SEVERELY lock down iOS and/or the hardware to be region specific. Basically, a US bought iPad won't be able to be used outside of the US (unless you call Apple to unlock it for travel or something).

They'll do this to clamp down on smuggling. Reselling within the US will still happen, but it's really up to consumers to not pay above retail and make reselling impractical or burdensome.

 

[iRabbit]

3) Apple is going to severely, SEVERELY lock down iOS and/or the hardware to be region specific. Basically, a US bought iPad won't be able to be used outside of the US (unless you call Apple to unlock it for travel or something).

that's the only thing I see fixing the current problem. Panasonic does it with some of their cameras to prevent this exact thing. Hard to get an English version in Japan exactly so they can't be resold to Americans for ungodly prices.

However, panasonic often has a lot of stock problems with their higher end new cameras and they are hard to get. So fixing one problem doesn't mean not creating another.

 

[ucfgrad93]

Hopefully this is true and it will keep some of the scalpers away so other people can get one.

 

[Knowimagination]

I say they take a picture of every customer who buys an iPad and then utilize iPhoto faces feature. If it comes back with a match no more iPads, if it doesn't you just showed off a neat feature of iPhoto

 

[re2st]

I don't recall anyone mentioning these aspects of the argument against scalpers, but I haven't read every comment on the internet. Here goes anyway.

One very good reason to minimize the amount of scalping from Apple's point of view, especially by the new breed of pushy obnoxious PadGangs, is to maintain control over the buying experience for its non-scalping customer base.

Apple is all about control. Store wise, they have painstakingly designed evey conceivable aspect of how an Apple store looks, smells, and feels. They spend countless time and effort training their employees. They're marketing a buying experience and in-store atmosphere as much as anything else.

They've spared very little expense to create a slice of utopia for everyone who sets foot in an Apple store. It's an investment and it pays for itself in astronomic sales and cult like status among an ever increasing customer base.

Along with massive popularity comes opportunity seeking tail riders. These remora seek to get their slice of the Apple pie. But increasingly, they're disrupting the utopian buying experience. Today's iPad lines are not the happy go lucky friendly lines of 2007-8-9. They're becoming cutthroat. People are frustrated and getting ugly. There's pushing, shoving, line cutting, etc.

This is not what Apple wants for their precious manicured stores. Sure, they're making fast money, but is that really the end all? Where are the scalpers when the buzz dies down? Where are the giant lines for the iPod Nano? Macbooks? OSX? There are none. For months between iPad/iPhone launches, Apple is left with its REAL customer base, the customer base it's been striving to cultivate with the perfect in-store experience.

But are the REAL customers guaranteed to keep coming back after they brought their daughter to buy an iPad 10 days in a row this Spring and were repeatedly told, "Sorry, we just sold the last one to a shabby homeless looking man who doesn't even know what an iPad is?" Will they even stand in line with their daughter for the next product if they suspect a fight might break out?

What if Apple installed a bar in every store and begain serving liquor? Sure, they'd get a big new crowd of fans, but at what cost? What family would come to an Apple store if there were strippers and cigar smoke everywhere? Apple learned long ago that kids are the future of their success. It's no mystery that today's Apple adult was yesterday's Apple kid, thanks to the school programs Apple wisely instituted years ago. Apple has never been about fast money. They're investors.

And what about this fast money they're making on the iPad 2? I submit that there are only so many customers on the planet for an iPad 2 in a 12 month period. They will not sell an infinite amount of iPad 2s before the iPad 3 comes out. And as we're learning, there's only so many they can make. I also submit that the closer an Apple retail store or dealer is to the factory, the more profit Apple makes…shorter shipping distances cost Apple less. Thus, if 500,000 iPads were shipped to the US at considerable expense, but went right back to Asia on airplanes in the hands of scalpers, only to be sold to people who would have bought one directly from Apple when they came out in Asia in a month's time, Apple is losing money on each and every one of them. In a month's time, those 500,000 people won't be buying an iPad directly from Apple. They'll already have one. By selling to scalpers, they're not increasing sales, they're merely shifting some sales from one side of the planet to the other. Americans will get their iPads, Asians will get theirs. Apple sells the same amount all told, but pisses off their core customer base in the process and compromises the hallowed buying experience they've invested so heavily in. Sure, the sales may increase over time as more people get to see and play with an iPad globally, but if it's at the cost of alienating a huge portion of their audience and ruining the buying experience, lowered sales figures could negate the gains.

is there any button to "Like" this?

 

[ravenas]

Americans will get their iPads, Asians will get theirs. Apple sells the same amount all told, but pisses off their core customer base in the process and compromises the hallowed buying experience they've invested so heavily in. Sure, the sales may increase over time as more people get to see and play with an iPad globally, but if it's at the cost of alienating a huge portion of their audience and ruining the buying experience, lowered sales figures could negate the gains.

Excellent summary of the situation.

 

[jb007clone]

that's the only thing I see fixing the current problem. Panasonic does it with some of their cameras to prevent this exact thing. Hard to get an English version in Japan exactly so they can't be resold to Americans for ungodly prices.

However, panasonic often has a lot of stock problems with their higher end new cameras and they are hard to get. So fixing one problem doesn't mean not creating another.

Honestly, I think it's probably going to happen. Don't think Apple isn't aware of this situation and as others above have pointed out, it might not be bad financially at the moment, but it certainly is hurting their public image and might affect finances in the future.

 

[bluemonkeyguy]

Listen all scalpers

Fair is fair and I'm not trying to be your enemy, BBBBUUUUUUUUTTTTTT!!!!!!!!

If you want to become an authorized Apple reseller, then take the route that EVERY FRAKIN OTHER authorized reseller takes. Don't wait in line and buy from the retail stock, which is meant for consumers. Apple has every RIGHT to limit sales to people it thinks are circumventing their authorized reseller program.

I'm not stopping you from your right to the free market, but don't cheat the system and don't cheat other consumers who are not going to resell their product.

Well that was my 2¢

 

[bchreng]

Whether true or not, stories like this sure do brighten up my day. People can bring up capitalism and free markets all they want but it still doesn't take away from how unethical scalping/reselling is.

 

[Puonti]

I'm saying that if Apple makes it corporate policy to turn away business simply because someone wants to give them MORE business, that is illogical.

This is only true when supply tops demand, which is not the case right now with the iPad 2. As an example, Apple could probably turn down every other buyer at their stores and still sell all of the iPad 2s they have available. They do not need to worry about losing business.

mcdj made very good points about the overall "Apple experience", part of which is getting that device you feel like you really, really want. A limit of 2 iPad 2s per customer is reasonable when supply is limited and is in place to give that experience to as many different customers as possible - those who come to stand in lines outside Apple Stores, that is. Their experience is much more important to Apple than that of someone buying from a scalper, for instance, so it's in Apple's interest to take action to that end.

 

[GadgetAddict]

I don't recall anyone mentioning these aspects of the argument against scalpers, but I haven't read every comment on the internet. Here goes anyway.

One very good reason to minimize the amount of scalping from Apple's point of view, especially by the new breed of pushy obnoxious PadGangs, is to maintain control over the buying experience for its non-scalping customer base.

Apple is all about control. Store wise, they have painstakingly designed evey conceivable aspect of how an Apple store looks, smells, and feels. They spend countless time and effort training their employees. They're marketing a buying experience and in-store atmosphere as much as anything else.

They've spared very little expense to create a slice of utopia for everyone who sets foot in an Apple store. It's an investment and it pays for itself in astronomic sales and cult like status among an ever increasing customer base.

Along with massive popularity comes opportunity seeking tail riders. These remora seek to get their slice of the Apple pie. But increasingly, they're disrupting the utopian buying experience. Today's iPad lines are not the happy go lucky friendly lines of 2007-8-9. They're becoming cutthroat. People are frustrated and getting ugly. There's pushing, shoving, line cutting, etc. Scalpers are increasingly threatening the controlled look, smell, and feel of the Apple store experience.

This is not what Apple wants for their precious manicured stores. Sure, they're making fast money, but is that really the end all? Where are the scalpers when the buzz dies down? Where are the giant lines for the iPod Nano? Macbooks? OSX? There are none. For months between iPad/iPhone launches, Apple is left with its REAL customer base, the customer base it's been striving to cultivate with the perfect in-store experience.

But are the REAL customers guaranteed to keep coming back after they brought their daughter to buy an iPad 10 days in a row this Spring and were repeatedly told, "Sorry, we just sold the last one to a shabby homeless looking man who doesn't even know what an iPad is?" Will they even stand in line with their daughter for the next product if they suspect a fight might break out?

What if Apple installed a bar in every store and began serving liquor? Sure, they'd get a big new crowd of fans, but at what cost? What family would come to an Apple store if there were strippers and cigar smoke everywhere? Apple learned long ago that kids are the future of their success. It's no mystery that today's Apple adult was yesterday's Apple kid, thanks to the school programs Apple wisely instituted years ago. Apple has never been about fast money. They're investors.

And what about this fast money they're making on the iPad 2? I submit that there are only so many customers on the planet for an iPad 2 in a 12 month period. They will not sell an infinite amount of iPad 2s before the iPad 3 comes out. And as we're learning, there's only so many they can make. I also submit that the closer an Apple retail store or dealer is to the factory, the more profit Apple makes…shorter shipping distances cost Apple less. Thus, if 500,000 iPads were shipped to the US at considerable expense, but went right back to Asia on airplanes in the hands of scalpers, only to be sold to people who would have bought one directly from Apple when they came out in Asia in a month's time, Apple is losing money on each and every one of them. In a month's time, those 500,000 people won't be buying an iPad directly from Apple. They'll already have one. By selling to scalpers, they're not increasing sales, they're merely shifting some sales from one side of the planet to the other. Americans will get their iPads, Asians will get theirs. Apple sells the same amount all told, but pisses off their core customer base in the process and compromises the hallowed buying experience they've invested so heavily in. Sure, the sales may increase over time as more people get to see and play with an iPad globally, but if it's at the cost of alienating a huge portion of their audience and ruining the buying experience, lowered sales figures could negate the gains.

Looks like you'll get your very own fan base with this post.

All valid points, nicely said.

 

[kanon14]

Actually is it legal for a company to refuse serving a customer (in this case, selling iPads to someone whom they have sold to before) without any particular reason given? Someone mentions it's illegal if you refuse to serve based on race (i.e. racial discrimination), so I suppose Apple should provide a reason. Otherwise, can't people actually sue Apple for that?

Disclaimer: I'm not for scalpers. It's just that I want to understand the issue more.

 

[Puonti]

Actually is it legal for a company to refuse serving a customer (in this case, selling iPads to someone whom they have sold to before) without any particular reason given? Someone mentions it's illegal if you refuse to serve based on race (i.e. racial discrimination), so I suppose Apple should provide a reason. Otherwise, can't people actually sue Apple for that?

Obviously laws differ from one country to the other, but I don't see an issue here. Apple is not "refusing service" willy-nilly. Even if you bought an iPad 2 you're still welcome to do business with them - you just can't buy more iPad 2s because you already have it and supplies are limited. I'm sure once supply surpasses demand you're welcome to buy as many iPad 2s as you want (within reason of course - as was also pointed out, if you want to sell Apple products in quantity you don't get your supply from a retail store).

Really, the issue here isn't about discrimination at all. Anyone looking at this thinking it's discrimination should take a step back and re-think that position. This is simply a matter of temporarely limited availability. Besides, limiting the number of items you can buy is not just an Apple thing. I'm sure we've all seen very good deals on an item or service, accompanied by an "X units per customer" disclaimer. The difference is that Apple doesn't sell cans of beans or what have you.

So, those reasons you were looking for? Temporarely limited supplies in Apple Stores, which Apple wishes to spread as evenly as possible amongst customers doing business directly with them.

 

[Rumanji]

This reads completely fake to me.

I agree with you. Don't think this is real at all.

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "not real" or "fake".

I was actually there and witnessed both "discussions". To be honest, this did not seem like she (the store manager) was enforcing a broad Apple corporate policy, actually quite the contrary. It wasn't done at all in a professional manner, it was almost a personal attack. There was definitely a very condescending tone and it almost seemed as if she had some vendetta against the two individuals. I'm not sure why they were singled out when the line contained many others that had also been there in the days prior. I would estimate that at least 50% of the line were those that were reselling.

If Apple does have an official policy, the store or shift manager should explain it to the customer in a professional calm manner without making it into a personal attack. There is a reason they are managers, they should have some tact and control in dealing with these situations. It should also be applied consistently to everyone. It didn't happen this way at all.

It was very uncomfortable listening to it and the kind of thing that I wish I had taken some video with my cell phone.

 

[kanon14]

So, those reasons you were looking for? Temporarely limited supplies in Apple Stores, which Apple wishes to spread as evenly as possible amongst customers doing business directly with them.

I'm not looking for a specific reason nor am I claiming there's discrimination here. I'm just wondering do business in general has to provide reasons when they refuse to do business with a certain group of people.

 

[OSMac]

Would online only sales solve this ?

 

[AdamA9]

Much difference to this, and paying someone to stand in line for me? Either way I'm paying above the cost Apple sets to get my hands on an iPad. I cannot be bothered, nor have the time/patience to queue for one, however, if someone else is willing to do it for me, for a cost, I don't see too much problem. The only moral issue I see with this are these people who are also in the queue who miss out, due to the actions of the scalpers and people pushing in.

Apple almost create the exclusivity themselves, when making too few of the products they know will be an international hit. The only reason these people are able to make money from this, is because people will buy from them. The only true way you will stop this is for people to stop buying from said scalpers.

 

[mcdj]

Much difference to this, and paying someone to stand in line for me? Either way I'm paying above the cost Apple sets to get my hands on an iPad. I cannot be bothered, nor have the time/patience to queue for one, however, if someone else is willing to do it for me, for a cost, I don't see too much problem.

From another post on this topic…

"Let's get something straight here. There are distinctly 2 kinds of scalpers; those who buy iPads for resale within the US, and those who buy to export.

The US resellers are actually keeping lines SHORTER.

Who would you rather stand in line behind; 10 craigslist scalpers buying a total of 20 iPads to sell to 20 different people locally…or the 20 people they were going to sell them to? Sure, those 10 scalpers will be back tomorrow, but again, if they're selling locally, they're keeping another 20 people off the line."

And I'll add that if the 20 people who might have bought from scalpers each get in line and decide to buy 2 ipads since they're in line anyway, that's 40 ipads you can't buy, not just 20. By this reasoning, local selling scalpers are not only keeping the lines shorter, they're potentially leaving more product on the shelf.

 

[Rafterman]

From another post on this topic…

"Let's get something straight here. There are distinctly 2 kinds of scalpers; those who buy iPads for resale within the US, and those who buy to export.

The US resellers are actually keeping lines SHORTER.

Who would you rather stand in line behind; 10 scalpers buying a total of 20 iPads to sell to 20 different people locally…or those 20 people they were going to sell them to? Sure, those 10 scalpers will be back tomorrow, but again, if they're selling locally, they're keeping another 20 people off the line."

What would you rather do? Stand in a line for four hours and pay retail price or get one in a few minutes from a sclaper for 100 percent markup?

 

[mcdj]

What would you rather do? Stand in a line for four hours and pay retail price or get one in a few minutes from a sclaper for 100 percent markup?

Your argument is vague. For some the answer is stand in line. For some, the answer is pay a scalper. That much is clear. Regardless, the fact is, if you get one locally from a scalper, you and one other person he sold to are not standing in line. 50 local scalpers potentially keep 100 local people off the line.

And FWIW, local scalper prices are generally softening, and few ever realized 100% markup from day one.

 

[marine0816]

This is a fake post. It's just a troll trying to get his daily fix.. just read it, it's an obvious fake.