I ended up exchanging the laptop in the original post. The new one has a samsung screen (First was lg). Here's a pic of the new one in a bitch black room on full brightness, and another pic comparing it to my mid 2011 macbook air. These were taken with an iPhone 5. What do you guys think??
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Yellow tint on Haswell rMBP 15"
- Thread starter zOlid
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I think that there is no such thing as a perfect monitor and people (myself included) need to quit chasing the "Holy Grail" of monitors.
If you notice it ONLY when the lights are off under a solid white background, and not under normal use - keep it.
Question folks are you noticing in the center from top to bottom compared to the sides from top to bottom is it brighter. From the above photo it looks like the center zone is brighter and seeing falloff to the sides. Need a light meter to measure that
That effect is an issue of viewing angle. IPS panels do have some color temperature and brightness shifts from viewing angle (some more than others), and in this case it's definitely angle-related. I'm not saying there aren't monitors with actual temperature shifts you could see or measure with a meter (I saw a 13" at the Apple store when I picked up my 15" that clearly had this), but what I'm seeing in those shots is angle-related.
Notice how the Air on the left has its "bright spot" closer to the right side of the screen, while the MBP's is closer to the left? If the camera is moved that should change, as seen in the shot with only the MBP. Even when looking straight on different points on the screen are at different angles relative to your eyes, so you can actually see this effect in normal usage (though it's less pronounced than on a camera obviously). To see an extreme example, compare looking at your screen from above with looking at it from below (tilt it way back). It should tend to go cool from below and warmer from above.
The Samsung panels are often described as having more angle-based color shift, but the LG panels are still producing reports of IR unfortunately.
On a more general note I hope everyone knows that even the best LCD panels have significant variances all over them. If you actually take a meter to a panel you'll see that brightness and color temperature bounces around all over the place (I can even explain a trick that allows you to see the variance "blobs" with your eyes, but I won't do it because it could cause display OCD overload for some members).
An actual "perfect" LCD panel costs thousands of dollars (closer to 10 than 1), and they're usually only used in extremely accuracy-sensitive fields.
Just stop looking at white backgrounds and start using your machine!!
Every screen has its flaws...at the end you might wish you kept your first macbook and used the time for more important things.
Honestly guys I've had the following notebooks:
iBook G4 12" - 2004
PowerBook G4 15" - 2005
MacBook Pro 17" - 2006
MacBook Pro 17" - 2009
All of those displays were perfect. Completely uniform colour edge to edge, perfect colour temperature, white whites and black blacks.
The Retina MacBook Pro 2013 that I received is the only Apple display I've ever got that has a yellow tint to it and I will keep returning it until I get a perfect display. Even if I have to return it 10 times I will do so because there are perfect ones, I've seen them in-store last year and my friend has one, completely white when showing a white image and completely uniform.
For the cost of these machines it is really silly to say "I'm going to settle for imperfection". The display is either to specification or it's broken.
And don't forget we never had these problems with our old LCD panels. Four macs, no issues. one iPad, three iPhones, no issues. Three 30" Dells and two 20" Dells, no issues. Don't accept anything that isn't perfect or Apple will keep putting these defective displays in their computers based on consumers apathy.
They certainly do not. I've bought so many screens I've lost count and all of those have been completely and utterly perfect. PERFECT. No dead pixels, no uniformity colour problems. Do not settle for a defective panel.
iBook G4 12" - 2004
PowerBook G4 15" - 2005
MacBook Pro 17" - 2006
MacBook Pro 17" - 2009
All of those displays were perfect. Completely uniform colour edge to edge, perfect colour temperature, white whites and black blacks.
The Retina MacBook Pro 2013 that I received is the only Apple display I've ever got that has a yellow tint to it and I will keep returning it until I get a perfect display. Even if I have to return it 10 times I will do so because there are perfect ones, I've seen them in-store last year and my friend has one, completely white when showing a white image and completely uniform.
For the cost of these machines it is really silly to say "I'm going to settle for imperfection". The display is either to specification or it's broken.
And don't forget we never had these problems with our old LCD panels. Four macs, no issues. one iPad, three iPhones, no issues. Three 30" Dells and two 20" Dells, no issues. Don't accept anything that isn't perfect or Apple will keep putting these defective displays in their computers based on consumers apathy.
They certainly do not. I've bought so many screens I've lost count and all of those have been completely and utterly perfect. PERFECT. No dead pixels, no uniformity colour problems. Do not settle for a defective panel.
Than why do pro screens cost so much (Eizo)? And yes all the other screens before retina used TN panels -> bad viewing angles. I do also own a dell monitor with ips panel and it has the ips glitter. Some people are more prone to certain flaws than others.
But it is up to you
As I'm working all day I can't be home for pick up and delivery every time.Just my 2 cents
Than why do pro screens cost so much (Eizo)? And yes all the other screens before retina used TN panels -> bad viewing angles. I do also own a dell monitor with ips panel and it has the ips glitter. Some people are more prone to certain flaws than others.
But it is up to you
Just my 2 cents
Trust me I'm a perfectionist and I can see every teeny-tiny flaw.
The reason those pro screens cost so much is because their colour accuracy is greater. Do not confuse colour accuracy with uniformity. All displays including consumer ones like what Apple use in their products should be uniform.
My current 17" MBP uses a TN panel. Largely considered to be inferior to IPS based on viewing angles however the TN panel Apple used in this MBP has a 175 degree viewing angle and has no distortion when looking at the notebook from the sides. There is however slight distortion when looking at it from a lower elevation.
And sure you may not have time to keep returning your notebook (Ever consider pickups from work?) but for the price it is absoloutely ridiculous to settle for anything other than a working display especially when there are working ones available, I've seen them with my own eyes.
If the display had a yellow tint across the whole thing, meaning a uniform tint. I could live with that as my eyes would adjust to it or I could calibrate it myself using one of the many hardware calibrators. But it impossible to get used to a display that is milk white on one side and yellow on the other. And there is no way to calibrate such a display either.
Both my friend and I bought the higher-end speced 15-inch. Same day, same store at the Beverly Center. Most definitely the same batch.
We both have the same Samsung panel I was able to check our machines with the terminal look up code after installing Xcode and both machines are reacting completely differently.
My screen seems perfect. At least as far as I can tell. I agree with the posters saying that if you can't see a defect under normal operation, you shouldn't be worrying about it. I am pretty sure that if I were to take a magnifying glass, I'd find for example a dead pixel invisible to the naked eye or a quarter of an inch darker and that would drive me nuts knowing it's here.
I nonetheless changed the wallpaper to white and did an IR test, just to be safe and check for a biggy. It does looks perfect to me.
My friend's screen though : totally different story. There's a very pronounced change in backlighting on the bottom right corner. It looks super dimmed we both clearly see it. That would actually bother me, it's visible on safari pages.
Also, mine doesn't creak. His does. Like severely. It almost feels like something is proper loose under the hood.
I told him to go get an exchange but he's worried it's gonna be the source of too much frustration and potential other flaws e.g. IR which the screen doesn't exhibit. (At least just yet)
At $2.6K a pop, if I were him, I'd take the laptop back and ask for a refund without specifying the reason as to avoid the condescending Genius Bar associate saying 'I don't see anything.' I'd go to a different store and buy another one the same day. (But that's just me. I dealt with the Genius Bar for my iPhone 5 last year and still have nightmares about it today. They are the worst in Los Angeles.)
What are the chances of his screen degrading over time for this particular problem. Is the dimmed area going to grow outward like IR would get more and more pronounced or is it just due to the lamination process meaning it's frozen in time?
We both have the same Samsung panel I was able to check our machines with the terminal look up code after installing Xcode and both machines are reacting completely differently.
My screen seems perfect. At least as far as I can tell. I agree with the posters saying that if you can't see a defect under normal operation, you shouldn't be worrying about it. I am pretty sure that if I were to take a magnifying glass, I'd find for example a dead pixel invisible to the naked eye or a quarter of an inch darker and that would drive me nuts knowing it's here.
I nonetheless changed the wallpaper to white and did an IR test, just to be safe and check for a biggy. It does looks perfect to me.
My friend's screen though : totally different story. There's a very pronounced change in backlighting on the bottom right corner. It looks super dimmed we both clearly see it. That would actually bother me, it's visible on safari pages.
Also, mine doesn't creak. His does. Like severely. It almost feels like something is proper loose under the hood.
I told him to go get an exchange but he's worried it's gonna be the source of too much frustration and potential other flaws e.g. IR which the screen doesn't exhibit. (At least just yet)
At $2.6K a pop, if I were him, I'd take the laptop back and ask for a refund without specifying the reason as to avoid the condescending Genius Bar associate saying 'I don't see anything.' I'd go to a different store and buy another one the same day. (But that's just me. I dealt with the Genius Bar for my iPhone 5 last year and still have nightmares about it today. They are the worst in Los Angeles.)
What are the chances of his screen degrading over time for this particular problem. Is the dimmed area going to grow outward like IR would get more and more pronounced or is it just due to the lamination process meaning it's frozen in time?
I totally agree with you.
I've owned more monitors than i can count really, and I've never had this issue with non uniform coloring.
The worst screen I've had was probably on a ASUS Ultrabook, (UX31 or something like that) that screen had TERRIBLE viewing angles and had bleeding. But it still had a uniform color over the whole screen.
I will not settle for a screen that has a yellow tint in one corner, there is absolutely no way to fix something like that with calibration.
Sure its not a huge tint, but its enough for me to notice it.
And I did notice it immediately on the "Choose language screen".
Paying this much money for a computer, and settling for a un uniformed flawed screen, would really be beyond stupid imho.
Whats saying the problem wont get worse over time?
Many are arguing that they don't want LG screens, because over time it could perhaps possibly get IR, even if it don't have it now.
So they settle for a Samsung with a yellow tint in one corner, cause they don't want to "play the lotto" and get an LG, and possibly get problems after a year or two.
So whats saying that they yellow tint wont get worse over time, just as possibly the IR could get. (Still haven't seen proof of that occurring on the newer rev of the LG screens, that started life with no IR)
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This is exactly what I'm talking about.
I REALLY don't understand why people would be fine with a "broken" computer when they have payed a lot of money for it.
It just boggles my mind how any one could be fine with such a thing.
It depends how bad it is and if you really see it during normal usage. Mine is so light that my girlfriend and a friend can not see it. It only can be easily detected when you do the test I mentioned above.
Again the chances are high that your next screen is worse. Delivery to and pick up from work is not possible at my office...so I need to take vacation for a panel lottery for a problem that I can not see during normal work. Apple store is 1.5h away.
So it always depends...anyhow good look to you guys
Might the perfect panel force be with you
Thank you zOlid for seeing it my way. I agree with you and I won't settle for less than perfect with these high costs.
My screen was actually an LG with the yellow tint so it seems the issue affects all the displays Apple are using. I didn't have any IR but it appears that issue mostly appears after use and obviously I only had mine for a day, it is already packed up and ready for dispatch.
My display panel ID: LP154WT1-SJE1
For me I saw it during normal web browsing, I haven't even done the yellow tint test and I wasn't aware there was such a test until you just mentioned it.
My screen was actually an LG with the yellow tint so it seems the issue affects all the displays Apple are using. I didn't have any IR but it appears that issue mostly appears after use and obviously I only had mine for a day, it is already packed up and ready for dispatch.
My display panel ID: LP154WT1-SJE1
For me I saw it during normal web browsing, I haven't even done the yellow tint test and I wasn't aware there was such a test until you just mentioned it.
I do think if your seeing it in normal viewing than take it back. Agree totally. I use a NEC wide Gamut monitor like a Eizo as my primary viewing panel but even so if the retina was blotchy , I would not hold on to it. I do agree it can get worse in time also. My quick questions on them just for testing where brightness levels if it changed and color calibrating too if it would disappear as we all know if its blotchy on one side than something is wrong. I also agree not all screens are uniform either but you have to decide if it is very light and normal or a problem. That's a decision call.
When I calibrate my monitors I watch for being uniform as calibrating every color and every shade appear during the process so I do watch to see if its not uniform.
Apparently not every retina is tested off the line which would take time so I do see it happening getting through the IQ process.
When I calibrate my monitors I watch for being uniform as calibrating every color and every shade appear during the process so I do watch to see if its not uniform.
Apparently not every retina is tested off the line which would take time so I do see it happening getting through the IQ process.
I can't find any fault in my Dell 30" 3007WPE
My Acer laptop has a perfect screen too... crap viewing angles though.
My Samsung TV is a different story... has some serious back light banding
.My HP Elitebooks DreamColor display (RGB backlight)... has red highlights in the bottom corners.
Dell 24"... perfect.
Asus 24"... perfect.
Nexus 10" back light bleeding.
I'm tired.
I can't find any fault in my Dell 30" 3007WPE
My Acer laptop has a perfect screen too... crap viewing angles though.
My Samsung TV is a different story... has some serious back light banding
My HP Elitebooks DreamColor display (RGB backlight)... has red highlights in the bottom corners.
Dell 24"... perfect.
Asus 24"... perfect.
Nexus 10" back light bleeding.
I'm tired.
I meant perfect in the literal sense.
It's true that you can find panels that do not have obvious visible-to-the-eye temp/brightness variations, but I can assure you they're still there. They just happen to be below the threshold for static detection (you may still be able to see them if you can train your eyes to track motion in solid color areas of the screen, but that's not really something that could ever come up from normal usage).
IPS is prone to more angle-based color shift than TN, usually considered a better problem to have than TN's massive vertical gamma shifts. It's true that some panels have this worse than others, so you might get better results here with a bit of shopping around.
If you don't believe me on the variances go get a meter and measure the screens you feel are perfect. They'll have something like 5-10% variance on different parts of the screen. You can even look at review sites that use this test, like Anandtech:
http://anandtech.com/show/6890/dell-u3014-lcd-review/9
These results were considered "very good" and the variance sometimes exceeds 10%. Only monitors like this:
http://anandtech.com/show/7336/nec-pa242w-monitor-review/6
Hit the very low uniformity variances we're talking about. And it's $1000 for a 24-inch 1920x1200 panel. The panel used by the rMBP produced at that quality could be as expensive as the rMBP itself.
So good luck, and I mean that seriously, but just be warned that it could definitely take more than a single return to find the panel quality you're talking about.
The three 30" in my signature are all IPS and do not have the same colour shift issue my MBP does. We are not talking a black that looks slightly gray in a corner we are talking a white that turns yellow. This is unacceptable and not normal.
Just checked my screen type (had to install some xcode package to check it which I've never had to do before so hopefully that isn't bad...) and have the same as yours. My screen looks great but a little nervous after all the hysteria over the LG screens last year.
Yeah, you're right, high quality desktop IPS panels never show this effect (instead doing that slightly gray black thing). Unfortunately Samsung's laptop IPS panels like the ones used in the rMBP do (Samsung cutting corners? Unheard of). I sometimes see people talking about better whites on LG, but then they sometimes have that actual yellow gradient on the left. I'm not sure if you'll be able to find one that doesn't have this shift (I haven't seen one yet), but if you do I think a lot of us would love to hear about it.
I actually have been wondering if this effect is a property of the anti-reflective filter. I know that the IPS desktop monitors I've owned are far more reflective and generally don't seem to have such a filter.
Personally hoping we see quality improvements with IGZO. I definitely wasn't trying to say your concerns aren't completely valid (I'm the first person to be a proponent of better quality panels over higher pixel densities), just was trying to warn people that the display lottery can be a losing game. This is the same reason I can't believe the TV industry is pushing 4K; Call me when you sort out the terrible panel uniformity (even on plasma) and we'll talk about higher resolutions.
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As I said before, mine is an LG not a Samsung display. My new one is coming Monday so not long to wait for me
Whatever happens with my new one I'll post here and let you guys know.
As I said before, mine is an LG not a Samsung display. My new one is coming Monday so not long to wait for me
Whatever happens with my new one I'll post here and let you guys know.
Sorry, missed that. I have actually seen that gradient (yellow on left) on the LG panels. The Samsungs I've seen (including mine) don't seem to actually have that issue (just a vertical angle temperature shift). The vertical shift is less concerning since you can just find the best tilt angle to minimize it, like on a TN panel with the gamma shift.