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Yes, your MacBook Pro is running too hot, and yes, it is Apple's fault.

vanyatka said:
How come it includes expensive GPU which takes up space, drains the battery, makes extra noise by having dedicated fan and produces extra heat for no real value to me?
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The $1999 model does not have a discrete GPU. Look at the specs.

For the record, space isn't an issue. We're talking about a laptop that is less than 3/4" thick. The additional drain on the battery only happens when the GPU is in use, otherwise it switches back to the integrated GPU. The discrete GPU models don't have a dedicated fan for the GPU either, so the only extra noise is due to additional heat which requires more airflow.

Don't buy the $2499 model if you don't want the discrete GPU.
 
GGJstudios said:
It's not just a matter of the maximum acceptable CPU temp, which is 105C. It's the fact that all these arguments about temps being too high are proven wrong by the millions of Mac notebooks that are used every day without heat-related failures. Those who complain about the heat never provide legitimate proof of their arguments in the form of statistics on how many Macs fail due to heat.

That's only your opinion. As Apple is on the line to provide warranty coverage for its products, it's wiser to trust their team of engineers rather than a few posting in a forum who think they're smarter than the expert team that Apple employs.

I have, but I use common sense, as recommended by Apple:


That's because aluminum transfers heat better than the materials used in many other notebooks, so you'll feel it more.
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Macbook Pro 4,1 pre-unibody. The worst offender that you probably have never heard of.
 
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TopHatProductions115 said:
Macbook Pro 4,1 pre-unibody. The worst offender that you probably have never heard of.
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Meaning? That's exactly the model I referred to earlier in this thread. I used it extensively for 6+ years before giving it to a friend who used it for at least a year or two more, and neither of us had any thermal issues or failures.
 
GGJstudios said:
Meaning? That's exactly the model I referred to earlier in this thread. I used it extensively for 6+ years before giving it to a friend who used it for at least a year or two more, and neither of us had any thermal issues or failures.
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Yet I'm also using the same model. It runs well over 65 C when left on stock fan settings. This model definitely has some thermal issues, even if your particular computer doesn't.
 
Awesome thread, extremely informative, even if I don't trust myself enough to 'lap' my heatsink, or I guess that means to polish it really well, and remove the excess thermal paste. I just ordered a new 13 2017 MBP and will be interested in seeing whether or not it has thermal issues. Also, I find this thread very entertaining, as the OP clearly has the best intentions and lots of data to back up his assertions, and the counter argument seems to be that "Apple is successful, therefore they are doing nothing wrong." Ridiculous. Count me in with OP, let's fix this and make an amazing laptop even better.
 
TopHatProductions115 said:
Yet I'm also using the same model. It runs well over 65 C when left on stock fan settings. This model definitely has some thermal issues, even if your particular computer doesn't.
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Considering the very small percentage of owners complaining about thermal issues, a more accurate statement would be: This model definitely did not have thermal issues, even if your particular computer does.
 
GGJstudios said:
Considering the very small percentage of owners complaining about thermal issues, a more accurate statement would be: This model definitely did not have thermal issues, even if your particular computer does.
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Do you mean to say that temperatures over 105 degrees F should be normal while idle?
While attempting to get my thermals in check, I ran into this on a Google search:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3165426?tstart=0

If so, I'll take this as me being too critical. Most of my other laptops don't run this hot except when under load. The entire keyboard surface is pretty warm while just web browsing. If what you're saying is correct, it could be an issue with just my Macbook.
 
First of all the Macbook wasn't designed in mind to be the laptop with the ideal heat transfer from a heat source to the heat sink, if it was we wouldn't be having this discussion.

However in order to understand what's really happening, there's an issue of cost and being able to provide enough supply to meet demand. I doubt the engineers said to each other "hey this is the absolute best way to do things". It's more reasonable to think that they settled for enough cooling performance for the price and ease to implement to meet increasing demands by customers waiting to buy a MBP.
 
TopHatProductions115 said:
Do you mean to say that temperatures over 105 degrees F should be normal while idle?
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No, I didn't say or imply that at all. Most MBPs don't reach such temps during normal use, much less at idle. I'm not suggesting that your MBP may not have thermal issues. I'm simply stating the obvious fact that just because a few MBPs have these issues does not mean that all MBPs do. If they did, there would have been a recall of defective models.
 
I am a professional and hobbyist programmer, and use my macs mostly for development. Used 4 to 6 hrs/day. First was a new MBP5,1 (mid 2010). (MBP 15.4/2.53/CTO as per Apple). Delivered Oct 27, 2010. Quiet as a mouse at first, fans roaring away with normal use 3 or 4 years later. Basically unusable. Next I purchased a MBP5,10 delivered on Apr 7, 2014. 1TB SSD. So quiet, I was in love. Played a few video games on it as well as the usual mix of Browsers with 10 or 20 tabs (not Chrome) four or five terminals, Atom editor, etc. Since I was already sensitized to the heat and longevity issue, I kept tabs on the heat load, and this MBP now gets hotter faster, fans on sooner, etc. It's now Jan 18, 2018. Four years like clockwork. It is nowhere near as bad as the 5,1 after 4 years, but it is declining.

At current, I'm not running any benchmarks, but the load as reported by Activity Monitor is 4% System, 6% User and 90% Idle. The fans are running at 2100 RPM (inaudible - I can't hear them), and the 4 CPU cores are averaging 60 C.

I am going to tear my 5,1 apart, clean the heatsinks, clean cpu surface and reapply paste. Can I restore it to normal or are there a host of other issues going on such as electrolytic caps drying out and just general component degeneration from time and heat?
 
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I can't speak to the heat sink itself as I never took apart my macbook pro. However, i have never, in my life, seen a heat sink as reflective as the one you linked.

additionally, crazy thermal paste has been an industry problem for years. i have no idea why, my guess is that they don't have time to give it the love a self-builder would have. Maybe they'd rather too much paste than too little and design their electronics around a lot of thermal compound?
 
Doward said:
Video:
YouTube Video (starting @ 9m 26s) showing the heatsink and compound issue.

Let me preface this by saying the blame is NOT with Apple's engineers. I understand and absolutely applaud their methodology and execution in the Macbook Pro line.

However, Apple's manufacturing and assembly need help.;)
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This has been a long-standing problem with Apple, at least since the start of the Intel laptop line, maybe before.

Recall all those heating incidents with CoreDuo products? And then opening up the cases to find thermal paste glopped on like it was done by a toddler on a sugar high?

I am curious, given this article, as to how much further the thermal performance could improve. My 2017 15" MBP runs dramatically cooler than my Late 2013 Retina, which in turn is significantly better than the 2011 one I had that failed due to heat stress (the shoddy GPU with the even shoddier installation) and slightly better than the 2008 one I still have. A 2006 MacBook I had was horrible on this score, and failed repeatedly, and Apple eventually dealt with by giving me store credit on the entire purchase price toward the 2008 one that still works.

Has Apple been gradually cleaning up its act, or are these improvements largely down to improved chip design? I'd be curious to get the OP's take on that.

The other point is that the 2017 one is so much more pleasant to use than any of the others on account of the lower heating (32-40C CPU proximity in typical standalone use, mid-to-upper 40s tethered to a roughly 720p projector, 46-58C in typical dual-display use with a 2560x1440 monitor with the good font smoothing enabled in Mojave through terminal), and if there's $5 to $10 worth of metal polishing and due care and attention with paste that could make it more pleasant still not to mention better able to tackle heavy tasks without throttling and making a loud racket, then why not? Why not, Apple? With your profit margins there's no excuse.

Now, fan boys can bleat all they want about millions of computers working well, but if it's down to a few dollars (or maybe less?) to improve one of the biggest factors in component reliability, not to mention reducing throttling under load in a world where laptops have largely replaced desktops, then why give Apple, the highest margin company in the business, a pass on manufacturing tolerances just because the component selection and design are right. Do you all think you're not worthy or something?
 
maflynn said:
All I know is that my rMBP has been the best laptop I've owned, it does not run too hot, and This topic about cooling, and thermal compounds have been bantered about for years. This is not a new subject, people say the manufacturer puts way too much on, and that might be true, but re-applying it only reduces temps by 5c

I think too many people get worked about the details when they shouldn't. The computer operates within normal parameters and there's no need to tear it apart to look at how shiny heat syncs may be or how the thermal compound has been applied.

Are there superior heat syncs and thermal compounds - without about. Should apple use them, possibly. Are the current ones sufficient - evidence seems to suggest they are adequate
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Has your opinion of Apple's laptops and overheating changed since it was proved that it was Apple's fault?

 
Did this thread really need resurrecting for a 6th time just so we can complain about thermal throttling some more?
 
bladerunner2000 said:
Has your opinion of Apple's laptops and overheating changed since it was proved that it was Apple's fault?
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That post now almost 6 years ago was discussing my 2012 rMBP and I stand by those words, the 2012 rMBP was the best laptop I ever owned.
 
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