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Warming-up for the all-new redesigned retina 2014 (2015?) MacBook Air
- Thread starter skaertus
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The rumored 12-inch display has a resolution of 2304x1440. The aspect ratio of a 2304x1440 screen is 16:10 (2560x1440 is 16:9).
If the 12-inch display indeed measures exactly 12 inch, then it will be almost exactly the same width as the current 11.6-inch display of the smaller MacBook Air, and a little taller (take a look here how they would compare: http://www.displaywars.com/11,6-inch-16x9-vs-12-inch-16x10).
However, if the 12-inch display is a little larger and measures, for instance, 12.5 inches, then it will be both wider and taller than the 11.6-inch display of the small Air (here you go: http://www.displaywars.com/11,6-inch-16x9-vs-12,5-inch-16x10) and more akin to the 13.3-inch display of the larger one (http://www.displaywars.com/13,3-inch-16x10-vs-12,5-inch-16x10). Let's see.
If the 12-inch MacBook Air gets a 2304x1440 resolution, then the image will definitely be sharper than the one in the current Airs. I don't know which aspect ratios are supported. Apparently you are not aware on how Apple handles retina settings, are you? I will explain to you (if you are not yet familiar with the concept), and then you will get a clearer picture of how the 12-inch Air will behave.
I will give you an example.
I do have a 15-inch retina MacBook Pro. It supports a 2880x1800 resolution. The factory default is what Apple calls "retina" settings. That means that OS X is using a 2880x1800 resolution to display images in an aspect ratio that resembles 1440x900. Icons and items which are four times the size of the ones in a 1440x900 screen are rendered in 2880x1800 and displayed in the 2880x1800 screen. However, the screen looks like a very sharp 1440x900 screen, as the icons and items on the screen will keep the same size.
There are some other modes too. I can choose to have more real estate and choose aspect ratios that resemble 1680x1050 or 1920x1200. However, here is a mistake people make. Some people think that OS X changes the resolution to 1920x1200, for instance. It does not. In fact, what happens is that the resolution is kept on 2880x1800. The screen is rendered at a 3840x2400 resolution and then it is shrunk into a 2880x1800 display. The result is an aspect ratio of 1920x1200, but the display is not using a 1920x1200 resolution. It is in fact using a 2880x1800 resolution to display a zoomed-out 3840x2400 image. Due to this way of rendering images, I can use a 1920x1200 aspect ratio with the sharpness of a 2880x1800 screen. And this is amazing.
The 13-inch retina MacBook Pro works the same way, but it can only render images up to 3360x2100, what means it can display an aspect ratio of up to 1680x1050.
How about the new 12-inch Air? I don't know how Apple will handle this. But I guess you would be able to render images of up to 2880x1800 and display them on a 2304x1440 screen, giving an effective aspect ratio of up to 1440x900. So, the way I see it, the 12-inch Air will allow a real estate similar to the one in the current 13-inch Air, but with the sharpness of a retina screen.
Well, the iPad is now the iPad Air. Why did they rename it? Like the MacBook Air, the iPad Air could get a big brother.
Apple could release an iPad Pro to be the bigger brother of the iPad Air. However, we are talking about two different things here.
The 12-inch rumored screen has a resolution of 2304x1440. That means a screen ratio of 16:10. It doesn't fit the specifications of an iPad Pro, but of a new MacBook Air.
The iPad and the iPad Mini have both a screen ratio of 4:3 and a resolution of 2048x1536. This rumored 12-inch screen has a different screen ratio and less pixels in one of the sides.
The MacBook Pros, on the other hand, have both a screen ratio of 16:10 and resolutions of 2560x1600 and 2880x1800. The 12-inch 2304x1440 screen matches the screens of the Pros in both aspect ratio and pixel density.
So, it seems pretty obvious to me that the rumored 12-inch 2304x1440 screen is a screen to be included in a laptop such as a new MacBook Air. It just doesn't match the specifications of an iPad screen.
I remember that there were rumors of another screen, a 12.9-inch screen with a resolution of 2732x2048 or something similar. That would be a more credible screen to fit an iPad Pro.
You should have noted that all rumors about a new iPad Pro are silent now. Apple has reportedly put the iPad Pro on hold. I doubt we will see it sometime in 2014.
Anyway, we are talking about two different products here. One is a rumored 12-inch 2304x1440 MacBook Air, and the other is a 12.9-inch 2732x2048 iPad Pro. They are not the same product, and Apple will not merge these two lines of products for now. No matter how bad you want it to happen, Apple will not bend to your wishes.
I'm still not convinced a retina MBA is the way to go.
I still rather wonder if Apple will be ball-sy enough to shake it all again with an iOS-based laptop line.
I doubt a Broadwell-based OS X laptop could be fanless, I'd rather think it will allow to redesign the pro laptop line with even thinner and lighter design, close enough to the current Air line, to the point to make the distinction irrelevant.
Leaving room for a home users oriented line of notebooks running an extended version of iOS, a discussion I had with iRun last january: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=18648892#post18648892
It could still leave room for a prosumer third rMBP, smaller than the 13.3", but would it even be profitable enough? I'd bet an iOS notebook would sell like hotcake, not everyone need the power of OS X, especially once a new range of app would be available on the iOS counterpart. A smaller rMBP could be as interesting for Apple as the 17" MBP was.
They rather need a line of laptop aimed at home usage, cheaper than their pro line. Not sure OS X is the only solution for that.
No rumors I see are very convincing, and most are pure speculations. The guys are able to at least solve an equation to fit a pixel density or a screen dimension.
Is there any tangible facts about production of screens at a given pixel density or resolution or size? It's probably too early.
I still rather wonder if Apple will be ball-sy enough to shake it all again with an iOS-based laptop line.
I doubt a Broadwell-based OS X laptop could be fanless, I'd rather think it will allow to redesign the pro laptop line with even thinner and lighter design, close enough to the current Air line, to the point to make the distinction irrelevant.
Leaving room for a home users oriented line of notebooks running an extended version of iOS, a discussion I had with iRun last january: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=18648892#post18648892
It could still leave room for a prosumer third rMBP, smaller than the 13.3", but would it even be profitable enough? I'd bet an iOS notebook would sell like hotcake, not everyone need the power of OS X, especially once a new range of app would be available on the iOS counterpart. A smaller rMBP could be as interesting for Apple as the 17" MBP was.
They rather need a line of laptop aimed at home usage, cheaper than their pro line. Not sure OS X is the only solution for that.
No rumors I see are very convincing, and most are pure speculations. The guys are able to at least solve an equation to fit a pixel density or a screen dimension.
Is there any tangible facts about production of screens at a given pixel density or resolution or size? It's probably too early.
the only speculation i'm intersted in atm is if the 12inch will get the igzo or not, and how much more battery life it can improve on top of the 12 hour the current 13inch have.
Apple will not do that. iOS is touch based and has no true multitasking and no mouse/trackpad support. In addition, iOS apps are very simple and feature-less compared to OS X apps.
Apple would have to improve iOS a lot before releasing a laptop powered by it. Perhaps Apple even does that, but in the future, after improving steadly iOS and making iOS and OS X similar to each other. Then, Apple could translate OS X to ARM processors and, in a further step, unify both systems. I don't see it happening any time soon.
Is there any reason why you would want an iOS laptop?
I don't think so. I think Apple will release a thinner and lighter Air (but not by much). The next Pro line will be exactly as the current one in terms of design, but battery life could be better due to the Broadwell processor.
I will take a look at that.
Why do you think an iOS laptop will sell? Just because it is cheaper?
The iPad just sells a lot because it is cool, innovative and cheaper than most Apple offerings. If the retina MacBook Pro costed US$ 499 just like the iPad, it would fly off the shelves.
There are consistent rumors of a 12-inch display with a 2304x1440 resolution being produced. These rumors come from the supply chain, so they may be true. In addition, such screen has the same aspect ratio (16:10) and a very similar pixel density to the ones found in the 13-inch and 15-inch retina MacBook Pros. So, it is very likely that Apple releases a redesigned MacBook Air with such screen sometime later in the year.
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It is hard to tell.
Some things we know:
IGZO saves battery. The iPad Air is said to have an IGZO display, and it manages to be thinner and lighter than the fourth-generation iPad, and it keeps its battery life.
Retina displays consume more battery. I don't know how much additional battery it would need, nor how would the IGZO technology compensate for that.
According to Intel, Broadwell will consume up to 30% less energy than Haswell.
So, we have several elements to rely on. In addition, Apple could make the MacBook Air even thinner, using a smaller battery than the current models. Or it could better accomodate the battery inside of a thinner shell.
We don't know yet. But I suspect Apple will at least keep the stellar battery life.
lol ok
Well, you miss part of the argument if you don't read.
It's a chicken and egg problem. There was no iPad apps before the iPad was presented/released.
Still, on the iPad you have iLife and iWork, Photoshop and LightRoom, finally even Office, and many pro apps of high quality.
Open your imagination, it's all dynamic, devs would only have more intents to develop always better or more productive apps.
Apple offers great APIs for devs on the iPad currently. And anyway, I'm not talking about replacing OS X, such a laptop wouldn't be for people/usage needing the versatility of OS X.
Yes, sure. Why do you want Apple to not adapt the OS to the new form factor and new usages if such a device is released?
I'm not saying I'd want one. In the current state of Apple offering, I'd love an even smaller 13" rMBP or why not a 12".
I'm just saying it could make more sense for Apple.
But at some point, I could imagine for myself rather than using a MBP and an iPad, switch back to the desktop form factor for work, and use for couch such an iOS laptop.
Pure speculation. Yes, that's a possibility.
Yes sure, a low price add value.
Easy to use, ultra light (could imagine a clamshell less than half an inch thick), ultra long battery life, "like the iPad but even more powerful", etc
I'm thinking about a price point starting around $700-800 in the case of an iOS laptop. I'd bet Apple would still make great margins on it, and big volume.
Pixel density is related to the distance of use and hence the form factor. I wouldn't expect a higher pixel density than the iPad Air for an iOS laptop, but could imagine a lower one as on current rMBP models. So, anything in the 200-250 ppi range could work. But with constraints on resolution, at 12" 264 ppi would likely be necessary. Maybe for a then future even larger model? xD
Aspect ratio too is dependent on form factor and usages. Wide screens are great for laptops.
Might happen.
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I have not yet managed to read it, but I surely will.
If an iOS MacBook Air does not replace OS X laptops, what will be the outcome? Apple could have two lines of MacBook Airs, one powered by iOS and the other by OS X. Or it could have a MacBook Air powered by iOS and a MacBook Pro powered by OS X. Either way, it would be confusing to consumers. It would resemble the similar marketing strategy adopted by Microsoft to promote the Surface (ARM, Windows RT) and the Surface Pro (Intel, Windows). This strategy failed miserably, and I think it is very unlikely that Apple does that. I addition, it would be inconsistent with Apple's marketing strategy over the years.
I can open my imagination, it is borderless. But if you just stop to think what makes sense from a business perspective, you will see that this possibility is completely nonsense.
As for the apps, the iPad is on the market for four years now. There are tons of apps, but most of them are simplistic and lack the features found in apps for OS X and Windows. Microsoft has just released Office, after all those years. And it is a very stripped-down version of Office. Microsoft itself acknowledges that Office for iPad was a hard task to accomplish. Other apps, such as Photoshop, also cannot compare to its full-fledged counterparts.
So, it is very simplistic to say that there are apps of high quality for the iPad. Some of them may even be of high quality, but they do not come even close to its desktop counterparts. iOS does not support plugins for apps. iOS does not even support true multi-tasking. It does not have a filesystem. It is a very simple OS, made for mobility. [/QUOTE]
Apple may adapt iOS to new usages. However, the way I see it, Apple will have to beef up the current iOS before releasing an iOS-based laptop or some other more complex product. The iPad is already there and it could benefit from a better iOS, with true multi-tasking and more features. It just doesn't make sense.
No, it doesn't. Of course, in the long term, it may make sense for Apple. But not now. Apple still sells a lot of Macs, and an iOS device is not a replacement for a Mac. People who think the iPad is a worthy replacement have already bought a keyboard to go along with it.
I just don't know. I don't know which strategy Apple will follow, but that's certainly in the long term. iOS and OS X are very different products in terms of features right now.
It's not pure speculation. It is based on information provided by multiple sources, including sources related to the product chain. The reliability may be put to question, but, as it comes from several sources, the probability of it being true is higher. So, it is much more than simple speculation. It may be a guess, but it is an educated guess. I did not produce it out of thin air just because I want it.
The MacBook Air already has that. Doesn't make sense.
That's insane. The current MacBook Air already starts at US$ 899. An iOS laptop doesn't make sense. It would be a flop. Just like the RT-based Surface.
These rumors I tould are consistent with a 16:10 laptop. If Apple ever releases an iOS laptop, then it won't have this screen.
It probably will happen. This is what most sources are saying, and is being reproduced even on high-profile newspapers and magazines. What will not happen is an iOS laptop, which seems to be the sole product of your imagination. Do you see any sources from the supply chain pointing towards an iOS laptop? Neither do I.
At this point, I think you prefer to talk to yourself rather than have a discussion or to try to think out of your box. No idea why you're so angry.
But got it, makes "sense", you don't need to read to give answers. You prefer talking alone.
The iOS platform is young, what's preventing these apps to evolve? They are first versions.
But again, I'm not expecting an iOS laptop to replace an OS X laptop in usages. How can you even believe that?
Without a strategy from Apple in that direction, apps devs won't care more to enhance iPad apps in that direction.
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Sorry for the copy and paste, the guy don't seem to be able to click on a link.
So here follows the discussion I had on the same line few months ago in this other thread. The other forum member iRun is here in bold:
What about a retina MBA? I don't care about iOS devices. I use my MBA for work and not for play.
There will never be a retina MB Air. Not more will there be any larger iPad (Pro). The MB Pro line will be the devices designed for actual work, and running OS X.
The MB Air line will be replaced with a new category of products, starting with a single 11.9" retina foldable device at 2732x1536 (264 ppi, 2:1 1366x768), including only a touchscreen and a keyboard, no trackpad nor cursor on screen, running only iOS on a 16:9 elongated version of the 4:3 9.7" iPad screen, as thin as two iPad mini.
That would be useless for people who must run OSX or Windows via BootCamp on the most portable device (a MBA). ARM processors (iOS) can't replace x86 yet and who know when they will.
I think it's a good thing you aren't running Apple.
The MBP line will continue to get thinner and lighter, and will be the laptops line of choice for people needing to run OSes like OS X and softwares going with.
Apple will need to offer simpler laptop to use for home, running iOS with apps updated for the wider screen and use cases.
Compare your use of your Mac laptop and your iPad, the level of knowledge required for maintenance is not the same order of magnitude.
An iPad will never be able to comfortably replace a laptop, but current OS X laptops are too hard to use/configure/maintain/update/etc. for basic users. And I don't want OS X to be dumbed down.
I don't want the 11" MBA to be 'dumbed down' to the iOS level. Until there is an 11" MBP, there will be customers (like me) who will leave Apple if the ultra book sized 11" MBA goes with iOS / ARM.
I can easily see professionals who already own a 15" MBP still wanting an x86 compatible 11" MBA for ultra portability. There is no excuse for the 11" MBA to not have a retina class display and an x86 processor.
By the end of 2014 or in 2015, the next generation of intel mobile proc (Broadwell) will probably allow to make a MBP13 at least as powerful as today but even more power efficient. We're probably not far from the time the rMBP13 could fit in a MBA13 enclosure with no loss of capacity. At this time, it will probably as well be possible to make a 11.6" rMBP if there is a market for it.
What do you do when your MBA and MBP lines are the same? Ultrabook will probably simply be the name for laptops soon.
And I doubt you can make a retina MBA11 with Haswell today as thin and power-efficient as today's non-retina MBA11. The current rMBP13's IRIS part can barely drive its screen.
There is probably more customers and margins to gain with a sub-1k$ iOS laptop sold for home than with the current MBA11 sales (and considering part of the MBA line customers can switch to a lighter MBP13 if the MBA line disappear).
Chromebook and Windows 8(RT) laptops aren't yet a threat, but they are only first iterations of simple to use products that will probably be the future for home computing. Apple needs to address this market, and needs to take the train in time.
What do you do in the remaining time? Introducing the new line of iOS laptops I'm talking about (at the expense of a temporary disappearance of the MBA line, if it comes early) would allow for a better transition, to better see in what direction let evolve and enhance iOS, and let 3rd party software adapt to the new form factor and usages.
Who the hell is going to pay anything close to $1000 for an iOS based (larger) iPad with a keyboard?!
Who would switch from the current MBA when: a) All of their current software wouldn't work and b) There won't be any comparable software available if they suddenly release an ARM based MBA.
That is so 'Windows RT' like (which was a miserable failure).
How old are the people that think a iOS type laptop will be a big success next year? It just seems so incredibly naive at this time.
I guess I could be wrong. I will vote with my wallet. Apple could gain $3K (or more) !from me if they make 11" MBA/MBP with a retina display. Otherwise I'll buy a Windows machine that can run the software I must use for my job. Maybe I should start looking now. I love my 11" MBA but the screen is out of date relative to nearly ALL notebooks out there.
I'd hate to leave Apple but if they do the incredibly stupid thing of forcing the 11" MBA to be an iOS toy then I will have no choice but to spend my money elsewhere.
The screen size and resolution i gave in example were hinting to the answer: on the 11.9" 16:9 screen (slightly larger than the MBA11's screen) running the evolved version of iOS, you'd run any iOS iPad app in letterbox mode the day of launch, just as you did when the iPhone 5 launched with 3:2 iPhone apps. Any app capable to run in landscape on the [2x] 1024x768 screen of the iPad would be run on the [2x] 1366x768 screen of this iOS touchscreen+keyboard foldable combo, and only waiting for devs' update to go fullscreen.
What was Windows RT app eco-system at launch?
Why do you want segmentation on age?
People surfing the web, using e-mail, calendar, iWork, iLife etc. and Twitter, Facebook, etc. (check the iPad app store for the complete list, and try to imagine what new usages developers could invent once the machine would be in the wild).
Many people don't work nor need a full MS Office at home, or XCode, or full Adobe PS, or Fusion/Parallel, or what you want.
I can imagine grand-parents as interested in a simple to use device like that, as well as kids, or adults of any age. A question is what usage can you have, and who?
Many people rely on others (us generally, on such forums) for using their computer, installing software, upgrading the system, etc. And these people often also don't need pro apps. Can a generalist OS like OS X be more simplified to be completely usable and understandable by such people, or is it even necessary?
You can't have currently a retina MBA11 or you'd already have it in stores. With a retina screen (in 2x HiDPI) draining more power, you'd need to cram in a better chip than the one in the current MBA11, and with better graphics. Draining more power too. Dissipating more heat. You'd need more room, for larger batteries, for bigger fans. What you want is not possible today, you can't retain the same thin and light form factor.
The ARM chips like Apple's A7 or the intel Atom Bay Trail are starting to look like desktop-class chips. Next generation proc, before the end of 2014, should be perfectly capable to offer all the power needed to drive devices such as i describe and to run apps dedicated to the new usages such devices would offer.
That doesn't prevent intel from making even better mobile desktop-class x86 chips, and when available, Apple to use them in always thinner and lighter laptops. A question is what architecture will be first? I don't think impossible before the end of the year to release a foldable combo touchscreen+keyboard at least as thin and light as the current MBA11 but with a retina display, based on the A8 and running an evolved iOS with all the currently available app catalog and more/better to come. That's all still young a platform.
The MBA11 can disappear, the MBA13 and the rMBP13 can merge, and maybe the smaller form factor of OS X laptop like the MBA11 could re-appear in a close future with retina screens when possible and if it's not niche / not dwarfed by their iOS counter-part.
But got it, makes "sense", you don't need to read to give answers. You prefer talking alone.
So you think the Microsoft failure with the Surface RT and the Surface Pro was marketing issues?
What?
So what? I'm not asking to replace OS X. Maybe you should read. If you need the power of OS X and the full experience of these apps, you're not the target for this device.
The iOS platform is young, what's preventing these apps to evolve? They are first versions.
Be precise, there of course is a file system on iOS. You wanted to say, the user can't access freely to it. Solutions like the OS X Finder are only one option to manage files.
But again, I'm not expecting an iOS laptop to replace an OS X laptop in usages. How can you even believe that?
People buying an iPad+keyboard to replace a laptop are at the margin.
Without a strategy from Apple in that direction, apps devs won't care more to enhance iPad apps in that direction.
Yes? Ok?
I've seen rumors about 2732x1536 11.9" screens. What make your rumors more credible?
No, OS X is not as easy to use as iOS. Read my post.
How many MBA11 are sold? What do you expect with a rMBA12 and at what price?
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Sorry for the copy and paste, the guy don't seem to be able to click on a link.
So here follows the discussion I had on the same line few months ago in this other thread. The other forum member iRun is here in bold:
What about a retina MBA? I don't care about iOS devices. I use my MBA for work and not for play.
There will never be a retina MB Air. Not more will there be any larger iPad (Pro). The MB Pro line will be the devices designed for actual work, and running OS X.
The MB Air line will be replaced with a new category of products, starting with a single 11.9" retina foldable device at 2732x1536 (264 ppi, 2:1 1366x768), including only a touchscreen and a keyboard, no trackpad nor cursor on screen, running only iOS on a 16:9 elongated version of the 4:3 9.7" iPad screen, as thin as two iPad mini.
That would be useless for people who must run OSX or Windows via BootCamp on the most portable device (a MBA). ARM processors (iOS) can't replace x86 yet and who know when they will.
I think it's a good thing you aren't running Apple.
The MBP line will continue to get thinner and lighter, and will be the laptops line of choice for people needing to run OSes like OS X and softwares going with.
Apple will need to offer simpler laptop to use for home, running iOS with apps updated for the wider screen and use cases.
Compare your use of your Mac laptop and your iPad, the level of knowledge required for maintenance is not the same order of magnitude.
An iPad will never be able to comfortably replace a laptop, but current OS X laptops are too hard to use/configure/maintain/update/etc. for basic users. And I don't want OS X to be dumbed down.
I don't want the 11" MBA to be 'dumbed down' to the iOS level. Until there is an 11" MBP, there will be customers (like me) who will leave Apple if the ultra book sized 11" MBA goes with iOS / ARM.
I can easily see professionals who already own a 15" MBP still wanting an x86 compatible 11" MBA for ultra portability. There is no excuse for the 11" MBA to not have a retina class display and an x86 processor.
By the end of 2014 or in 2015, the next generation of intel mobile proc (Broadwell) will probably allow to make a MBP13 at least as powerful as today but even more power efficient. We're probably not far from the time the rMBP13 could fit in a MBA13 enclosure with no loss of capacity. At this time, it will probably as well be possible to make a 11.6" rMBP if there is a market for it.
What do you do when your MBA and MBP lines are the same? Ultrabook will probably simply be the name for laptops soon.
And I doubt you can make a retina MBA11 with Haswell today as thin and power-efficient as today's non-retina MBA11. The current rMBP13's IRIS part can barely drive its screen.
There is probably more customers and margins to gain with a sub-1k$ iOS laptop sold for home than with the current MBA11 sales (and considering part of the MBA line customers can switch to a lighter MBP13 if the MBA line disappear).
Chromebook and Windows 8(RT) laptops aren't yet a threat, but they are only first iterations of simple to use products that will probably be the future for home computing. Apple needs to address this market, and needs to take the train in time.
What do you do in the remaining time? Introducing the new line of iOS laptops I'm talking about (at the expense of a temporary disappearance of the MBA line, if it comes early) would allow for a better transition, to better see in what direction let evolve and enhance iOS, and let 3rd party software adapt to the new form factor and usages.
Who the hell is going to pay anything close to $1000 for an iOS based (larger) iPad with a keyboard?!
Who would switch from the current MBA when: a) All of their current software wouldn't work and b) There won't be any comparable software available if they suddenly release an ARM based MBA.
That is so 'Windows RT' like (which was a miserable failure).
How old are the people that think a iOS type laptop will be a big success next year? It just seems so incredibly naive at this time.
I guess I could be wrong. I will vote with my wallet. Apple could gain $3K (or more) !from me if they make 11" MBA/MBP with a retina display. Otherwise I'll buy a Windows machine that can run the software I must use for my job. Maybe I should start looking now. I love my 11" MBA but the screen is out of date relative to nearly ALL notebooks out there.
I'd hate to leave Apple but if they do the incredibly stupid thing of forcing the 11" MBA to be an iOS toy then I will have no choice but to spend my money elsewhere.
The screen size and resolution i gave in example were hinting to the answer: on the 11.9" 16:9 screen (slightly larger than the MBA11's screen) running the evolved version of iOS, you'd run any iOS iPad app in letterbox mode the day of launch, just as you did when the iPhone 5 launched with 3:2 iPhone apps. Any app capable to run in landscape on the [2x] 1024x768 screen of the iPad would be run on the [2x] 1366x768 screen of this iOS touchscreen+keyboard foldable combo, and only waiting for devs' update to go fullscreen.
What was Windows RT app eco-system at launch?
Why do you want segmentation on age?
People surfing the web, using e-mail, calendar, iWork, iLife etc. and Twitter, Facebook, etc. (check the iPad app store for the complete list, and try to imagine what new usages developers could invent once the machine would be in the wild).
Many people don't work nor need a full MS Office at home, or XCode, or full Adobe PS, or Fusion/Parallel, or what you want.
I can imagine grand-parents as interested in a simple to use device like that, as well as kids, or adults of any age. A question is what usage can you have, and who?
Many people rely on others (us generally, on such forums) for using their computer, installing software, upgrading the system, etc. And these people often also don't need pro apps. Can a generalist OS like OS X be more simplified to be completely usable and understandable by such people, or is it even necessary?
You can't have currently a retina MBA11 or you'd already have it in stores. With a retina screen (in 2x HiDPI) draining more power, you'd need to cram in a better chip than the one in the current MBA11, and with better graphics. Draining more power too. Dissipating more heat. You'd need more room, for larger batteries, for bigger fans. What you want is not possible today, you can't retain the same thin and light form factor.
The ARM chips like Apple's A7 or the intel Atom Bay Trail are starting to look like desktop-class chips. Next generation proc, before the end of 2014, should be perfectly capable to offer all the power needed to drive devices such as i describe and to run apps dedicated to the new usages such devices would offer.
That doesn't prevent intel from making even better mobile desktop-class x86 chips, and when available, Apple to use them in always thinner and lighter laptops. A question is what architecture will be first? I don't think impossible before the end of the year to release a foldable combo touchscreen+keyboard at least as thin and light as the current MBA11 but with a retina display, based on the A8 and running an evolved iOS with all the currently available app catalog and more/better to come. That's all still young a platform.
The MBA11 can disappear, the MBA13 and the rMBP13 can merge, and maybe the smaller form factor of OS X laptop like the MBA11 could re-appear in a close future with retina screens when possible and if it's not niche / not dwarfed by their iOS counter-part.
I am not angry. I am sorry I gave you this impression. Sorry again.
Marketing in the broad sense.
I think this whole Windows RT thing was a big mistake. Microsoft should have never released it.
What?!
An iOS laptop would be a very different beast from an OS X laptop. Apple should not use the same names for the lines of laptops.
If Apple keeps the Intel-based MacBook Air, it would be very bad to choose "MacBook Air" to name a theoretical iOS laptop. If this ever happens, and these laptops ever co-exist (which I think they won't), then Apple should choose a completely different name. Perhaps i-something. Such as iBook. No, that's taken.
The iOS platform is young, but it is getting older. The iPad has more than 4 years now, and apps continue to be very simple. Apps could take a lot of time to evolve. Will Apple release an iOS laptop with such simplistic apps, so consumers would wait years until they develop into full-fledge apps?
In addition, note that iPad apps are optimized for tablets. They do not support a mouse or trackpad, which is one of the ways by which you input information on a laptop. An iOS laptop could be similar to the Android tablets. Android tablets run apps designed for Android phones. An iOS laptop would run apps designed for tablets. It would not deliver an Apple experience.
Apple may release an iOS laptop in the future, when iOS is already a more advanced operating system supporting multi-tasking and mouse gestures, although I doubt it. I think Apple would still go for simplicity.
Apple would probably choose to keep the iPad as it is, due to its simplicity and lack of mechanical parts. Users would be able to multi-task and to connect bluetooth keyboards and mouses/trackpads to the iPad. The iPad would be a more powerful machine, capable of doing laptop-like tasks. Then Apple could sell it as a laptop replacement. I think it is more likely than an iOS laptop.
I don't even believe in the concept of an iOS laptop...
I don't think Apple will push the iPad into that direction. However, note that the iPad sold much, much more than the lifetime sales of Mac computers. Then, even if a tiny fraction of iPad users bought a keyboard, there would still be plenty of them (perhaps even more than Mac users) to justify apps that could make use of them.
In addition, now that there is Office for the iPad, then people may start buying more keyboards.
Yes.
Yes, there were different rumors. Let me rewind a little bit.
May 28, 2013. According to Korean website ETNews.com, Apple would be working on a 12.9-inch iPad Maxi. https://www.macrumors.com/2013/05/2...ipad-maxi-in-early-2014-to-target-ultrabooks/
July 21, 2013. The Wall Street Journal reports that Apple would be working on an iPad with almost 13 inches. https://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/22/apple-testing-screens-for-a-larger-iphone-and-a-13-inch-ipad/
September 24, 2013. According to Chinese website United Daily News, Apple would be working on a larger iPad. https://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/24/apple-may-be-working-with-quanta-computer-on-larger-ipad/
October 9, 2013. There is a research from NPD DisplaySearch conducted among the supply chain about new screens. There are rumors about a 7.9-inch screen with a 2048x1536 resolution, which turned out to power the retina iPad mini. There are rumors about a 12-inch 2304x1440 screen with low power to be inside a new MacBook Air in 2014. And there are rumors of a 12.9-inch screen with a 2732x2048 resolution to power a new iPad model in 2014. https://www.macrumors.com/2013/10/0...n-on-apples-display-plans-for-future-devices/
October 12, 2013. KGI Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo reports he expects a 12-inch MacBook Air to be released. https://www.macrumors.com/2013/10/1...inch-macbook-with-retina-display-in-mid-2014/
December 23, 2013. DigiTimes reports that Apple would release a 12.9-inch iPad in late 2014. https://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/2...ad-in-october-2014-larger-iphone-in-may-2014/
December 30, 2013. MacRumors highlighted a 12.9-inch iPad as one of the prospective Apple products for 2014. A 12-inch MacBook Air would be another one. https://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/3...14-iwatch-larger-iphone-6-12-9-inch-ipad-pro/
January 3, 2014. Evercore analyst Patrick Wang says that a 12-inch iPad could be launched as a hybrid device. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/01/0...aunch-for-12-inch-ipad-focused-on-enterprise/
January 15, 2014. Research firm DisplaySearch reports that, according to supply chain sources, Apple could release a 12-inch iPad Pro model. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/01/15/iphone-6-ipad-pro-iwatch-displays/
January 17, 2014. Rumors are that Apple would release an iPad Pro with a 12.9-inch display by Q3 2014. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/01/17/q3-2014-ipad-pro-launch/
January 25, 2014. Analyst Daniel Matte lays out an argument, based on no factual evidence, that Apple should offer a 11.88-inch MacBook Air with a 2732x1536 resolution. Note that it is just an argument and is not based on anything other than his own imagination. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/01/25/12-inch-retina-macbook-air/
January 30, 2014. IHS Analyst Rhoda Alexander said she is skeptical about a larger iPad being released. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/01/30/ipad-pro-not-launching-soon/
February 15, 2014. KGI Securities analyst Kuo reports that Apple will hold off the release of the 12.9-inch iPad Pro. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/02/15/ipad-air-2014-12-9-ipad-ipad-mini-2015/
March 14, 2014. According to DigiTimes, the iPad Pro is put on hold. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/14/ipad-pro-shelved/
March 21, 2014. A forum post at Weiphone.com says that Apple will release a 12-inch MacBook Air without a fan and with a new trackpad design. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/21/12-macbook-air-updates-iwatch/
March 26, 2014. DigiTimes reports that, according to supply chain sources, Apple would release a retina MacBook Air in 2014. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/26/retina-macbook-air-supply-chain-sources/
April 9, 2014. KGI Securities analyst Kuo releases what he believes is Apple's 2014 roadmap. According to him, Apple will release a 12-inch MacBook Air with a retina display in 2014. An iPad Pro with a 12.9-inch display would also be on the works, but not to be launched in 2014. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/04/09/apple-2014-product-roadmap/
This is what I found. There may be more. My conclusions are as follows:
- Apple has prototypes of a 12.9-inch iPad with a 2732x2048 resolution. This device was planned to be released in 2014, but will not come out until 2015 at the earliest, if ever.
- Apple has began production of a 12-inch MacBook Air with a 2304x1440 resolution. This device will ship during the second half of 2014 or first half of 2015.
- The other rumors are pure speculation. The 11.88-inch screen with a 2732x1536 resolution lives in the imagination of an analyst, and there are no reports of any supply chain source indicating that they may be in production.
OK. But iOS is optimized for very small and mobile devices. It is easy to use OS X, but iOS is just as simple as it could be.
I don't know how many 11-inch MacBook Airs are sold. However, I am pretty sure that the MacBook Air is the best-selling Apple line of computers.
Apple usually offers products in all price ranges. Although the rumored 12-inch retina MacBook Air is supposed to be more expensive than the current offer, I am not so sure about it.
Of course I am. Come on. I said I would read it. However, as it is a somewhat long discussion, I will have to read later, as I worked all day.
So to come back to my first post in this thread and to sum all this up
With Broadwell, Apple could redesign its MBP line, make it even more thin and light, with same or even better performances, and complete it with a third model with a 12" 8:5 screen as is discussed in this thread, with a starting price like $1099. The MBP13 and MBA13 could be discontinued. And then in the low-end range of price, maybe could resist the current Haswell MBA 11.6" base model at the current price point.
Now, I'm open to think that an iOS line of laptop could be a way to address a larger market than the Mac, and a way to capture more revenues and profits than with the current line-up. And as that speculated iOS laptop line would be supplanting part of the low-end OS X laptop line sales, I question the value of having at the same time two 12" notebooks lines, one running OS X, another one iOS.
And then I end up only with the Air-esque new rMBP 13 and 15 in the OS X line-up, that would have to shave off $100 more in price.
I'm not sure Apple would improve its revenues and profits with only an OS X strategy in the coming years. And Apple's goal is not only to try to please every of its consumers, it's to make it while maximizing profits and capturing a larger base of users/consumers of its services.
The idea of an iOS laptop line can be discussed and dismissed. You paled in argumentation here for now.
Can also be discussed if 2014 is the year such a move would happen.
[edit] ah and you just posted an answer now as I was typing
If Apple makes a 12" retina notebook, I don't think it will be a MBA chasing the lower price point or razor thin design.
With Broadwell, Apple could redesign its MBP line, make it even more thin and light, with same or even better performances, and complete it with a third model with a 12" 8:5 screen as is discussed in this thread, with a starting price like $1099. The MBP13 and MBA13 could be discontinued. And then in the low-end range of price, maybe could resist the current Haswell MBA 11.6" base model at the current price point.
Now, I'm open to think that an iOS line of laptop could be a way to address a larger market than the Mac, and a way to capture more revenues and profits than with the current line-up. And as that speculated iOS laptop line would be supplanting part of the low-end OS X laptop line sales, I question the value of having at the same time two 12" notebooks lines, one running OS X, another one iOS.
And then I end up only with the Air-esque new rMBP 13 and 15 in the OS X line-up, that would have to shave off $100 more in price.
I'm not sure Apple would improve its revenues and profits with only an OS X strategy in the coming years. And Apple's goal is not only to try to please every of its consumers, it's to make it while maximizing profits and capturing a larger base of users/consumers of its services.
The idea of an iOS laptop line can be discussed and dismissed. You paled in argumentation here for now.
Can also be discussed if 2014 is the year such a move would happen.
[edit] ah and you just posted an answer now as I was typing
You’re a joke. Why do you even post this answer?
You’re again talking to yourself and speaking for me.
Ok, great. I’m not saying the opposite anywhere, we agree here. Why even saying that? Oh yes, you didn’t read.
I disagree here. Lots of people can rely on iPad apps of already good quality for a large part of their usage of computing devices. And it would only get better with the traction of the user base and new form factor.
Again if you could read the post you’re supposed to answer to, you’d notice I explore the idea of an iOS laptop without a trackpad, just as iOS doesn’t support cursors, as a touch OS only.
I disagree, the iPad form factor can’t compete with laptop form factor, even at small dimension as 12’’
Why do you want Apple to target iPad users as consumers for an iOS laptop? huh
Apple would rather chase on agnostic Mac/Win/Chrome users wanting easy to use computing devices, not too expensive if possible, that will buy cheap PCs for the most part at the current time.
Maybe. And then, to the point an iOS laptop could make sense?
I think Office is in its way out.
So supply chain infos from end 2013-early 2014 about a laptop to be released maybe as late as in 2015?
Is that reliable? genuine question
No shi[r]t ! iOS is only available on smartphones and tablets at the moment, eh!
No, OS X is easy for the tech enthusiast, not the majority of the population.
Yeah, love you too
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Oh, please, let's keep it on good terms, OK?
Yes, I agree that are apps of good quality for the iPad. But they take time to be developed. And they will take time to be improved. If Apple releases an iOS laptop now, most (if not all) apps will still be sub-par for intended usage. They will improve, but the experience will be sub-par for a period of more than one year at least.
I agree that it cannot compete. However, Apple's approach has been largely to get rid of mechanical parts. If I were to guess, Apple would prefer to ban any hinges from its products and keep them as clean and simple as possible. It's not necessarily the best approach, but Apple has been doing it for some time.
I don't want it. However, it seems to me that the most obvious public is this one. As I see it, Apple's answer to cheap PCs is already the iPad, as it concedes that such devices are mainly for consumption rather than production.
It may make sense. In the future, I think Apple would prefer if all its devices were iOS-driven. iOS is far more successful than OS X, so Apple would prefer to stick with that. However, as OS X still provides much more functionality than iOS, Apple cannot get rid of it right now. At least that is how I see it.
But in the future, an iOS laptop could make sense. Or another form factor, as I mentioned (such as keeping the iPad as a tablet and adding a keyboard and a mouse/touchpad), could be the replacement to Apple's current laptops.
Anyway, I think we are still a few years from that. I don't know how many, but I haven't seen any real improvement of iOS towads that direction. If Apple keeps the current pace, then it may take some time until iOS gets all the needed functionality to actually become a laptop operating system.
What do you mean by that? If you mean that Office is being replaced by alternatives, I don't think so. Despite what people say, Office is still very much used, especially in enterprise. According to a Forbes piece published yesterday, Office still has a 93% market share. The link is here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2014/05/15/microsofts-office-for-ipad-gains-traction/. This market share seems to be bigger than the market share of Windows itself.
Some of it is reliable. However, as I see it, they are the only factual evidence that can be worked with. We can speculate about future Apple products, but only supply chains can give us a glimpse of what the near future may look like. As for the distant future, we can only guess, and our guess will probably be far from the truth.
No comment.
My intention when participating in that thread has always been to have a discussion.
You admitted owning an iPad 3 but almost never using it. What is exactly your experience when stating this now? What exactly would be subpar, for what type of usage?
I don't think the goal is to ban hinges. Mecanical parts are sure interesting to remove, but a tablet is not a laptop without a physical keyboard and trackpad, for example.
So you think Apple has a problem with the iPad because it lacks a keyboard and could need to replace it with an iOS laptop?
I disagree. iPad users aren't buying en masse keyboards, and won't even with Office now available.
The tablet form factor works great. But that's limited, to some kind of usage (but apps ecosystem is ofc defining it too), I don't think it can cover every usages perfectly. Not more a laptop form factor can, ofc.
What do you do to convert more customers to Apple's ecosystem? iPad sales seem to be tanking, Mac sales while managing to maintain in an apparent declining PC market is still not stellar.
With only iPads upgrades YoY losing always more market, and OS X hopefully still gaining in market share but mainly not increasing in units sales or even, with a decline in unit sales and then profits, does this sound like a plan Apple would follow?
How do you reverse the current tendency of flat progression on OS X and first signs of iPad sales progression taking a hit in a growing market?
Introducing a line of iOS laptop wouldn't mean the suppression of the OS X line of pro laptop, nor OS X ecosystem as whole. But yes, indeed starting the transition for general consumers and usage to iOS.
I disagree. I don't expect iOS to ever replace OS X. You will never match OS X versatility with iOS in any future. That's not the goal.
If by 'laptop system' you mean to mimic OS X, again, I don't think this should be the goal.
What exactly do you think iOS is lacking?
Filesystem access won't happen, file management will be coming with a long awaited better inter-app communication system, so allowing users to manage files between apps having gained access in the restricted model of sandboxes to files of other apps.
Multi-tasking/view? I don't see the point on current small hardware including the 9.7'' iPad. Now, with a larger and wider screen, as on a laptop for example, why not ; that sure would enhance productivity to display and interact with content of more than one app at a time.
What will be iOS8? It's been quite opaque until now. Health stuffs apps, ok. TextEdit and Preview? Interesting in our debate. And what else? I don't think that is all. I bet a better inter-app communication system will finally be presented, and the recently rumored multi-app view even, maybe.
With iOS and Android wave, and OS X having gained traction over the years since the iPod, people have started to learn they can 1. not need Windows for everything 2. not need Office on every device, if any.
Microsoft strategy and failure with the Surface and Win8 came from their intrication of Windows licences to sell with Office licences, and build all the model around that rather than adapt to the mobile aspect first, with touch-based interface. But they started to change their approach, and seem to understand their mistakes.
I can only agree ofc.
But I don't know how distant is the future
OK. I apologize if I looked angry or unfriendly in my posts. It was not the intention.
Yes, I rarely use my iPad 3. However, I use both my iPhone and my laptop a lot.
The iPad could be so much more, in my opinion. I use it sometimes for browsing websites or reading ebooks, but for little else. I don't miss it when I am not with it. I can do everything with my laptop, and I don't need the iPad for anything.
That said, as you should have already noticed, I type a lot. I produce a lot of content, and do not only consume it. I am a power user, and I use several apps at once. Lots of multi-tasking. The apps I use more are web browsers and office applications. Web browsers are OK under the iPad, but I still prefer to use them on my Mac, as there is support for Java and other things. As for office applications, there is simply no contest. The iPad is not a real contender here. Yes, there is Microsoft Office for the iPad. But it is sub-par. Word for iPad does not support cross-references, for instance. It is very basic. It keeps compatibility with Microsoft Office for other platforms, but you can only do basic stuff. There is no support for add-ons.
I can't just take an iPad to a trip. I have to take my laptop, because I may need to do more than what my iPad supports.
I cannot attach a file to an e-mail.
If I connect a keyboard to the iPad, the experience in productivity apps is better, but far from nice. The touch approach is not good for productivity. It is good for reading webpages, but a mouse/trackpad is much more precise. Much better to use with a word processor, for instance.
The iPad is basic and limited. It is nice and provides a nice experience, as long as you keep your usage within the things it is able to do. But if you need the power and the features, then the iPad is not the way to go.
There is, of course, room for improvement. The iPad is getting more powerful, and apps are slowly becoming better. An iOS laptop would not provide a much better experience now. It would have a keyboard, but not much more. What about the touch approach? And the limitations to multi-tasking? They are all but gone.
That is how I feel it. My experience with the iPad is mixed. I don't know if people around the world are having similar experiences. Most people seem to love the iPad, but sales appear to be declining now.
Sometimes I feel Apple would like to eliminate everything that is not consistent with the purity of its devices.
Well, I still do not have a closed opinion on this, but I can try to share my ideas on it.
I don't think that the iPad lacking a keyboard is a problem. No, it is not. The iPad is a beautiful device and it works well. But it is limited in its purposes, as it was designed to be. It was not meant to replace the Mac when it was released. I found out it does not serve my purposes, because I am not satisfied with its purity and simplicity. I want power and features, which are things the iPad lack. But it is good as it is. I think we both agree that the iPad is great but limited.
I don't know how to convert more users to Apple's ecosystem. And I guess that is the million-dollar question, right? There are two ways in doing this, in my view.
One is innovating. Apple has been innovating a lot. It released the iPhone in 2007 and that was innovative, and released the iPad in 2010, and that was another big innovation. They were both huge successes. But then competition catches up. Perhaps competition is not there yet, but it is getting closer and closer. The products need to get better and better and, as long as they are perceived as better, Apple will continue selling millions of them for a premium price.
The second is lowering the prices. Look at the MacBook Air. It was innovative when it was first released in 2008, and it had a high price tag. Now it costs much less. The current MacBook Air is behind some high profile ultrabooks in many respects such as screen resolution and weight. Apple manages to sell a lot of them by keeping lower prices than the competition.
I don't see how to do it differently: you either have something nobody else has (and then you can charge anything you want) or you have a good price (so you can beat other similar products).
The thing is, the iPhone and the iPad still offer the best-in-class experience. How would an iOS laptop behave? I think it would behave poorly. An iOS laptop is not really innovative in concept. There are hybrid devices and there are Chromebooks, and an iOS laptop is not really much different from these in concept. I guess an iOS laptop would not be the way to go, it is not the breakthrough product Apple should release. It would be the toaster-refrigerator that Tim Cook once referred to.
The biggest Apple product is the iPhone. It is responsible for 57% of the revenue of the company. And if the biggest company in the world has to rely so much on a single product (which can be surpassed at any time by a worthy competitor), then I think it has a problem.
I don't know which is Apple's plan. There should be one. Perhaps to improve the current devices so they become better and more affordable. I dont know. Perhaps Apple is not going to take over the world after all.
I don't think an iOS laptop should have a focus on converting OS X users. It should have a focus on trying to attract new users. Said that, I don't think an iOS laptop should released at all, at least not at this point.
I don't know. I just don't know. If iOS is not supposed to replace OS X, then I see no point at all in releasing an iOS laptop.
If iOS is not to mimic OS X in some points, then I think it should never become the OS of a laptop. The iPad is made for casual use, and iOS matches this. iOS is an OS for casual use. It is for reading web pages. Writing simple e-mail. A laptop supposes a more hardcore use. It comes with a keyboard, which supposes you will write more. I don't think they will match if things keep as they are.
I am not sure people are so aware of that. Windows is still largely used by the majority of people. If you need a laptop for work, and you can't afford spending a lot of money, then you will buy a Windows PC. And you will buy Office. No contest.
Of course you can choose to buy an iPad instead. Or you can try Linux with OpenOffice or LibreOffice. But if you really need a laptop for work and you must be 100% sure that it will handle anything you need for a couple of years, the realistic choice is Windows + Office.
I don't think that was their mistake. In my point of view, Microsoft tried to launch an ARM-based OS (Windows RT) in a market already crowded with those OSs (iOS and Android). And Windows RT already had a bigger brother, Windows, which has always been superior. Nobody believed Windows RT, and nobody does now.
Me neither. But I can say that in the next five or ten years the computing landscape will be very different from today.
Yes. My interrogation is, how much is it software limitations (young platform) and in the first place iOS (including 'power user' functionnalities, or APIs available for 3rd party softwares), or if the form factor itself is adding in limitation (touch based and no pointer, size of screen because have to be portable, keyboard on screen).
I'm certain iOS and its ecosystem of apps and services will evolve and allow to do more, both on the two pocket and tablet families of devices.
The iPad wasn't designed for replacing desktop computing. But I'm wondering here if iOS though can be used to replace a set of usages many can only have with OS X. And would it be on the tablet form factor, or for example, is a physical keyboard (not eating on the small display, small because a tablet has to be portable) is an important factor. If it isn't, a solution could simply be a larger tablet, offering a larger screen. But then it's not much portable anymore, so is a tablet form factor still the best choice?
My original point was about home computing usages, in particular the non-tech persons, and the ease of use of iOS (in particular of course the lack of access to the file system, that's the central point, and that won't change for mimicking OS X, as an abdication).
If you need a computer for work, no question, you go with Windows/OS X/Linux in the most cases.
But a lot of people don't need a fully-capable computer for a lot of their usages at home (who needs to run a VM or the full Office or Photoshop?).
Some try the iPad as a full replacement, but in its current state, iOS isn't enough. Granted Apple will one day add to iOS real or better inter-app communications, this will change a lot of things. And from that day, we'll see if an iPad is enough as it is or if a laptop form factor could also add value.
Currently, the random PC customer will exclude the iPad because it's incapable to replace a PC. Some then consider the Mac, and even, some buy Macs.
With a strategy of targetting these users with a simple to use laptop based on iOS, and cheaper than current OS X laptops, I'd bet Apple would print money.
Why more than with cheaper OS X laptops? Again, first because OS X is not easy for everyone, far from that. And second, because on an iOS laptop, customers would find there available all their apps already bought with their iPad or iPhone. And Apple managed to capture in its ecosystem a lot of users with its current two lines of iOS devices. An iOS laptop would be more familiar for many than an OS X laptop.
And that's also here the difference with the Surface (Microsoft only recreated the netbooks situation, and made it even worse with an empty of apps RT variant) or Chromebooks. The Surface pro is a toaster-refrigerator, it wants to sell you that you can run a full desktop-class OS on a tiny touch tablet and reach every usages, and Microsoft had to add a dummy layer to better accomodate it. At some point, the RT was close to an half-baked attempt at what I describe with an iOS laptop, but they couldn't abandon the filesystem and still had to give access to the Desktop, and had no app ecosystem available. And for Chromebooks? What are they other than cheap? what can you do on them out of using web apps?
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I think both are limiting.
The form factor is limiting, because the use of a finger as a pointer and the absence of something more precise limits its uses. This can of course be overcome. But iOS is limiting, and this is disappointing. Apple released eight versions of iOS so far, and did not implemented "power user" features that would enable the iPad to be used for serious multi-tasking or allow the user to install add-ons to the apps. So far, Apple chose to keep it simple. It has worked, but that also departs the iPad from the Mac.
I agree with you that iOS will evolve. I don't know how much it will evolve, though. And I am not even sure of what "evolve" means to Apple. Apple may choose to keep it simple forever, and not allow "power" features to be implemented. The iPad was not designed to replace the laptop, it was designed as an in-between device, to fill the gap between the phone and the laptop. Is there a permanent place for such a device? (or is Microsoft right?)
Non-tech persons may choose an iPad instead of a computer. But even those people may not be satisfied with the simplicity of the iPad. Even non-tech people do know how to use Windows at this point. The iPad is cheaper than a lot of laptops, but it is also more expensive than others. You can buy a cheap laptop for less than an iPad costs, and it still runs Office and every program designed for Windows.
Did you take a look at the Surface Pro 3 that Microsoft released today? It looks great, at least for me.
This is the device lots of people were expecting Apple to release. A 12-inch device that serves both as a tablet and a laptop, is thin, light, has a high resolution display, and looks very well designed. Looks like a big Apple release, expect that it was not made by Apple. It's a Microsoft product.
Were you thinking that Apple would release an iOS laptop that resembled the Surface Pro 3? What do you think of all this?
I think small tablets like the iPad will remain relevant. It’s a great compromise between portability and size of screen meaning comfort and capabilities.
Some people made the mistake it could replace computers or would some day. That was not the idea, the idea was to cover enough usages, in particular in mobile environment (either at home in bed/couch/bath/toilets or outside bus/train/plane/park) and in the best possible way, compared to smartphones including phablets and laptops. The form factor itself bring limitations of course.
I definitely disagree. In what world do you live? 95% of people have no clue how their OS work, what is a file system, what are files permissions, what a driver do, what a software programmer do, how to uninstall stuffs, upgrade stuffs, and why or when, on which criterias. etc.
Most people have no time for that, most people aren’t tech inclined.
Most people want to buy a computer like they buy a fridge or an oven. They want to plug it in and it should work as expected. They don’t expect to have its firmware to upgrade for keeping things cool, or any fancy maintenance stuffs as done on computers. Yes that’s an analogy.
That’s of course impossible at some point: as expected usages evolve toward complexity, it supposes to learn and assimilate new notions.
iOS has been a non-marginal step toward simplicity, but at the expanse of capabilities, of course. Out of OS upgrades, users have nothing to deal with in the system: it just works. That’s huge.
I don't see Apple trading that loss of complexity against bad design choices in aim at meeting every power users demand.
I’m not impressed and I definitely don’t expect Apple to release a thing like this running a touch-friendlier OS X, or some crazy dual-booting iOS/OS X, or some unicorn hybrid OS.
The Surface pro is a toaster-refrigerator, Microsoft is only going further with the netbook idea, adding touch and stylus in hope it gets better. But the OS is the problem and they are admitting it with the 12’’ model: the 10’’ model didn’t sold, not more as a tablet or as a laptop, and a laptop needs a large screen. And once large, I don’t call it a tablet anymore, even without a keyboard (remember this?). I’d bet this model will sell better than the smaller one, though.
Nope, I stick to the low-end priced small laptop I describe since the beginning, a clamshell with a retina-class touch screen and a keyboard, even lighter than the MBA11 and running iOS.
Currently the Air is positioned at the low-end. Some users choose it for its small form factor, but I’d bet most people using a MBA11 choose it for its low price. And I’d bet these people don’t need all the power of an i5/i7. OS X needs it.
What you’re advocating for is a smaller rMBP. What I suspect is the MBA line will disappear. We aren’t necessarily incompatible.
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Yes, the idea was never to replace laptops. And I believe the iPad will remain relevant.
However, laptops are becoming thinner and lighter and there is serious overlap between laptops and tablets now. Five years ago, the iPad did not even exist and nobody needed one. In a very short period of time, the iPad turned into a must-have. But if the iPad is no longer a must-have device for some reason, then the whole tablet category may be doomed, as Android tablets will not hold up on their own.
Apple is so powerful it just defined a new category of devices, and now everybody is seriously looking at it. Crazy world we live in.
Well, people do use Windows despite not being tech-inclined. It's not the ideal solution, but it can be done. My parents use Windows, although they have no clue about what a file system is.
Apple's iPad is definitely way simpler, and it probably won't get any more complex. However, OS X and Windows both have become much simpler over the years. You can use Windows even not being a tech-driven person. You may run into problems eventually, but you can get your work done most of the time.
Well, I have to disagree.
I think the Surface Pro 3 is an amazing device. But probably we just have different opinions.
I don't think it is a toaster-refrigerator. I think Microsoft did a great job at releasing a laptop/tablet. I am impressed by the level of detail and the effort they put into it. Everything was well thought of. Really impressive.
Perhaps I have different expectations than you. I do have an iPad and I barely use it. I don't find it useful. It is just a giant iPhone for me. It doesn't perform the complex tasks I want it to. I always have to turn to my laptop to do the things I must do. I cannot go to work with the iPad because it won't do what I need. I cannot travel with the iPad either because I will be required to do things the iPad is not able to. I always have to carry my laptop with me. The iPad doesn't replace anything for me, and add so little that I am really not thinking of buying another one.
The Surface Pro 3, it's a whole different story. I can take it with me. It's powerful enough and can replace a laptop, while having the convenience of a tablet. I can read in bed with it. I can take it to a meeting and I can open it without turning all eyes to me (like usually happens when I open the lid of my MacBook Pro). I can see a use to it. I can see how it is superior to an iPad and how it adds value to my usage.
But each to its own, of course. The Surface Pro 3 is not going to replace the iPad, and vice versa. Each has its own market.
As for the current Air, it is positioned at the low-end of Apple products, but it is still at least a mid-range to high-end product. People of course are buying it for the price.
I don't see Apple launching a smaller rMBP. I see Apple launching a redesigned MacBook Air, but equipped with a retina display. It's different. It would have the same price point, or a similar one (the retina display is not so much more expensive at this point, and it's the only thing that would add up to the current price).
Apple could release both, of course. But will that happen?
Well, of course, anything can happen, especially after Microsoft released a new Surface which is almost a true laptop. But I don't think iOS is equipped enough to be a laptop OS.
What do you think?
Let me guess, you are their personal support service? Did they install Windows and are they installing software themselves? How are organized their files?
Usually relying on the friend or family having fixed everything and set the borders in which the user is supposed to not pass, and crossing fingers it will hold.
Well, there is a touchscreen and no attached keyboard, but I think your forearms really don't want to hold its 800g too long.
wtf lol! What's the problem in Brazil? Is that because it's seen as jewelry expensive stuffs? Or hipster stuffs? What's your point here?
Well, why would you care, they're clueless and are missing the value. This isn't a status symbol, not more than an iPhone is.
So because iOS isn't enough in its current state and on current devices offer, Windows 8 is an alternative? Wow, nope, sorry, I pass here.
yep.
Microsoft is clearly saying 10'' was too small and they needed a 12'' screen for a laptop running a desktop OS.
Having to be both a portable/usable tablet and decent laptop, Microsoft can't really go any larger nor smaller with the Surface+Win8.
Ok and what do you do with the rMBP line? Broadwell + IGZO and gain in performances and battery life?
I'd personnally welcome no improvement (excluding graphic power, that's still not great, hopefully Broadwell will finally be at the level with its integrated GPU parts) and same battery life in an even slimmer and lighter new chassis. And that's where a 12'' rMBP could come to complete the line of Pros, now they'd be so close to the Air line in term of footprint, and then no more differation on portability vs power.
I don't think a just released device can alterate the short-term Apple's agenda. And mid-term, well, I don't think the Surface is shaking any line, even in its 3rd iteration. It's a nice device, but it's the othogonal strategy that Apple is currently following and has yet to prove to meet market praise and to be profitable.
Well, we're probably reaching a limit in our debate. Let's see what we'll learn about iOS 8 at the WWDC. If some inter-app communication system is presented, more doors will be open for this hypothetical iOS laptop.