Well... Flash crashed Safari for me pretty regularly as well. Until I started blocking it that is.
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Well... Flash crashed Safari for me pretty regularly as well. Until I started blocking it that is.
Interesting...and neither one of the products are good for you.
On a side note: I once approached my Mac with a Windows CD, and the poor thing actually cringed and whimpered. I swear to God!!
And no car need to cost as much as a BMW. GM went for the mass market and look where it got them...a bailout from the government.
Companies that can structure themselves to be profitable and pay attention to the constantly changing markets will do well and their customers will benefit as a result.
Anyone want to own an almost new Saturn these days?
I agree. The Netbook market is about a year away from when you'll see them in little plastic coffins and hanging from hooks in convenience stores along with LED flashlights and solar powered calculators.
I think the rumor that the world will end in Dec 2012 was started by PC manufactures who have done their projections.
LagunaSol
macrumors 601
Heh. I really don't understand the logic of being in the $300-400 laptop business. After you give Microsoft its cut, what do you end up with? About enough profit to pay for the first couple of tech support calls you're going to get from your frustrated customer.
Dell & HP's race to the bottom in an irrational quest for market share has to be one of the nuttiest business plans in history. Talk about brand suicide. Nothing like relegating your entire brand to bargain-basement throwaway PCs. Anyone who wouldn't rather be in Apple's position is either delusional or doesn't know anything about business.
Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
Focus on the user experience, not the specs...
Let's start with:
1. Even if you're making a cheap machine, there is NO reason to have 5 different colors of LEDs on one laptop. Choose a single color and stick to it, also eliminate LED's and switches (such as wifi switch, etc) from the laptop, anything you need a switch for can be done with the Fn key. This should actually save them money.
2. Spend your money and effort on improving out of the box experience. This means NO crapware, no mcafee reminding you to register, none of that crap. Include software that will make users productive. No third party driver software for wifi, OSD, etc. The computer should be able to open office documents and PDF's out of the box. The $20 you get from preloading with crapware isn't worth the loss of sales and reputation you'll get later on.
3. Customize and Tune Windows, partner with Microsoft if necessary. Hide the complex parts, and turn off everything by default unless the user wants them on. Don't use ANY 3rd party wifi utility, or webcam software. Stick with the drivers/utilitiyes that come as a part of Windows. Just aim to simplify the user experience and don't overwhelm them.
These are starting points, I'm sure they could be improved upon...
You either keep spreading lies intentionally or you are terribly uninformed. Check quarterly results for HP and Apple. You'l find out that HP makes twice as much profit as Apple does. Oh... forgot to mention HP computers are better than Macs too 😉
LagunaSol
macrumors 601
Shut them down and give the money back to the shareholders. 😀
Actually, I don't know what you do once you've ruined your brand. Dell is now trying to sell higher-end stuff (Adamo) with better profit margins, but who wants to pay $XXXX for a Dell? See what they've done to themselves?
I guess replicating Apple's model might be a good start. Cut your line of 80 (or whatever) models down to a dozen (or less). Come up with a great industrial design for your laptops and your desktops and stick with that design for a few years rather than churning out a completely new (and forgettable) stuff every 45 days (Wow, new colored laptop lids with designs!). Stop selling bottom-of-the-barrel crap. Let your competitors take that low-hanging fruit (and the headaches that come with it). Stick with higher margin products and make them desirable. Try some actual innovation rather than just spec updates. Reinvent your brand. Market share is irrelevant - it's about profitability and brand respect.
Remember how Jobs cleaned house when he came back to Apple? Dell and HP should do the same.
LagunaSol
macrumors 601
Newsflash: HP doesn't make its money selling PCs.
Awesome, go hang out in the HP forums. Your incessant whimpering about Apple grows tiresome.
Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
It's refreshing to see a serious response.
I think I'll have another point to add. HP and Dell are experimenting in more premium lines. The problems obviously are Apple but more importantly the quagmire of other models they sell.
A few products stand out from them. From Dell the Vostro V13, the Adamo line, and the Alienware M11x.
HP has the dm3 (effectively a budget version of the Envy 13), Elite 5101/5102 aluminium netbooks, and the Envy 15.
Concentrating on these lines while slowly easing off the others would be worlds of improvement. They are some surprisingly premium products at various price points. It's just the many people don't see them in the confusion of everything else.
I guess you came up with the same thing I did. It's just a pain in the ass to find the gems in the mire of plastic fantastic. They are there but being everything to everyone is a drag.
Right now the Dell Vostro V13, Alienware M11x, HP dm3t, and HP Envy 15 are some tempting products for me. Maybe you can take a look at them and give some opinions? I'd like to see what you think.
LagunaSol
macrumors 601
Wow, you nailed this one on the head. I'm staring at my HP EliteBook 6930p (employer-supplied) right now. It has - count 'em - 11 glowing LEDs. ELEVEN!
8 are an aqua blue color, 2 oranges, and 1 yellow. The thing looks like a freaking Sony car stereo at night. Why do I want all these lights on a laptop??? Why do I need a blinking light that tells me the hard drive is being read (which it always is, because that light is forever flittering)??? So annoying and distracting.
The trackpad is tiny. The trackpad buttons (all 4 of them) are spongy and hard to reach with the thumb (because the pad is so small).
There's a ridiculous pop-out light (!!!) in the top bezel that's about the cheapest thing you've ever felt. Fortunately I'll never use it, because if I did it feels like it wouldn't last a month of daily use. The latch button to open the laptop is stiff to depress and the screen is stiff to open. And why can't they go with a hookless (or at least a disappearing hook, like the old PowerBooks) latch system? The bottom of the thing is covered in slots, grooves, latches and indentations. Who would want to put this thing on their lap? Good luck with your stockings, ladies.
Oh, and then of course you have to gunk it all up with those ridiculous Windows, Intel, and Energy Star stickers, which you don't dare try to remove because they're glued on pretty good and you know you'll just make it look worse if you try. Oh, and of course the sticker under the screen warning you of electric shock.
A completely forgettable, uninspiring slab of mediocrity, and that's not even addressing the Microsoft OS that graces this engineering marvel. HP could do far, far better if it wanted to.
The WinBots love to yell "Snob!" at anyone who demands a couple of brain cells' worth of design effort, but it astounds me that anyone could find a product like this likable in any sense of the word (lilo777?). Particularly a product that you spend the bulk of your waking day using. This device epitomizes drudgery in every way - I suppose corporate IT folks want us to hate our jobs as much as they hate theirs. And the sad thing is this isn't even one of HP's low-end models.
Embarrassing.
cmaier
Suspended
a friend of mine got an hp with that popout light. What the heck is that supposed to be? Is that to light up the keys? It looks ridiculous and fragile, like a cupholder or something.
LagunaSol
macrumors 601
Dumping the alphabet soup naming conventions might help. How do you build any brand/model awareness/appeal with EliteBook 6930p?
Agreed, but no one in the PC world seems to have the guts for this type of bold action these days.
It's hard to sell a premium product when you're not a premium brand. Remember the Volkswagen Phaeton? Yeah, me neither.
These things have no brand/model value at purchase and resale value is practically nonexistent. IBM seemed to have things right with the ThinkPad (the only PC laptop I would have ever considered), but now Lenovo is turning that brand into a great pile of confusion too.
I'll take Model Number Jambalaya for $500, Alex.
I won't buy anything but an Apple laptop, if only because I want something that can run both OS X and Windows without the headaches of hacking.
And I've yet to see a PC laptop that made me think "Oooh, I want that." Sad, but true. Not because they couldn't make one. But because they choose not to.
"Cupholder" is a perfect analogy, and it feels as ridiculous and fragile as it looks. It doesn't even light up the keys well. What were they thinking?
It is strange to hear this from a person who on the other thread brags about Macs having illuminated keyboards. If you are in a dark room, then perhaps you might understand how different colors might be beneficial. Obviously nobody expects this from Apple where everything should be one color and one shape 😀
It actually does more than keyboard illumination. Have you studied ergonomics at college? If you did than you know that it's bad for your eyes to work with a bright screen surrounded by dark background.
cmaier
Suspended
But it's aimed down at the keyboard, not at the background. And no, I didn't take ergonomics, because I studied electrical engineering, physics, and law.
Keyboard is part of the background. When you work in dark room and have to move your eyes from screen to (dark - in case of Mac) keyboard it will strain the eyes.
LagunaSol
macrumors 601
I am in a dark room and these LEDs are not beneficial. Illuminated keyboard - now that would be beneficial.
The funny thing is you Apple haters assume we Apple users don't know what we're talking about, but here I sit with an HP laptop (which I use every day) and an Apple laptop (which I use every day) in front of me, and I am completely qualified to tell you which one sucks (the HP).
I'm sitting here in a dark room. The light is on. It casts the faintest light on the keyboard and a small patch of light on the bezel right below the light. You'd have to be a cave bat to appreciate this level of illumination. To argue this is helpful to my eyes is ludicrous.
"Studied ergonomics at college" - give me a break. Talk about spewing nonsense in an attempt to appear intelligent. 🙄
Enjoy your HP junk. In fact, go there. Your friends are waiting for you.
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/
cmaier
Suspended
Ok, but in the other thread you said "why would anyone need a lighted keyboard?"
oh, and you argued it doesn't just illuminate the keyboard. Now you say t does, and doesn't light anything else (which was my original question).
I do not know what college you graduated from but in my college ergonomics was a mandatory subject. And why do you think that this is nonsense?
And BTW I majored in EE.
cmaier
Suspended
LagunaSol
macrumors 601
Oooh, impressive! Actually, I worked in facilities management (you know, the guys who design and build your cube farms, research and purchase your chairs, teach ergonomics workshops, etc.) for years, and ergonomics was something I worked with (and studied) every single day. But I'm sure your college class was awesome too. 🙄
Apparently only the HP EliteBook 6930p (and perhaps a few others) is aware of this ergonomic wonderlight. You like totally should call Dell and Sony and Asus and share your ergonomic knowledge. Tell them you took a class in school. They'll really respect that. Hopefully we can get cupholder, er, popup lights on all of our laptops!
Now begone to my Ignore list. Seriously. Your endless blubbering about Apple stuff (on an Apple users' forum) is both pathetic and annoying. You're like a lonely divorcee who can't quit talking trash about the guy she wishes hadn't dumped her.
Enjoy your mediocre HP craptops. I sure won't enjoy mine.
In other words you have nothing to say about the matter but throw personal insults. I am not saying that I am a specialist in ergonomics but the argument does make sense to me.