NPD: 90% of $1,000+ PCs Sold in Fourth Quarter 2009 Were Macs

[tritonj]

Meet some new people. I know quite a few who have switched recently.

if you're going to quote a guy at least give the whole quote and not a sentenence out of context

 

[rolphi]

I'm sure you hear the screams of a thousand Mac users when Windows is installed on a Mac.

Microsoft just counts the money made from the software license and goes on with another day...

I agree. That's why I think it's so interesting that Apple defined their competitors in the iPad announcement as Sony and other portable device makers.

Just like the message that the War of 1812 ended didn't get to Andrew Jackson before he invaded New Orleans, I don't think EITHER side of the Mac/PC war gotten the message that their war is over. The ship has sailed. By just about any measure, Microsoft won. I would even go so far as to say that Apple makes one of the best Windows machines out there.

So Apple is starting a new war, and doing so profitably.

 

[SandynJosh]

I never claimed that the Mac experience was perfect. I did claim that enough Mac users find their imperfect experience better than the imperfect experience they would get from somewhere. At least enough of them do that would want to keep Apple in business.

You're correct. The Mac (imperfect) experience is enough of a difference that over the years about 5% more people switch to Macs then switch to PCs. I haven't seen a recent number, but the recent jump in Mac shares of sales, would indicate the switch-over rate may have doubled from before.

This may be part "halo effect" and part stampede away from the Vista (very-imperfect) experience.

 

[Eidorian]

I agree. That's why I think it's so interesting that Apple defined their competitors in the iPad announcement as Sony and other portable device makers.

Just like the message that the War of 1812 ended didn't get to Andrew Jackson before he invaded New Orleans, I don't think EITHER side of the Mac/PC war gotten the message that their war is over. The ship has sailed. By just about any measure, Microsoft won. I would even go so far as to say that Apple makes one of the best Windows machines out there.

So Apple is starting a new war, and doing so profitably.

Apple does move very fast and moves pieces into place long beforehand. It's amusing to see the userbase left behind.

 

[rolphi]

This is a very misleading stat as most all Windows based computers are under 1000.00 dollars.

I would not be reading to much into this one.

That stat is only misleading if one is easily mislead. Why wouldn't you give credit to the average forum goer to read into it what it's worth and no more?

 

[usbflash8]

the theory of Windows 7 having a positive effect on PC prices... This is getting pretty pathetic. usb flash drives may help you

 

[SandynJosh]

keeping believing that if you want but Apple is a software company, the same as Microsoft. The difference is Microsoft choose to license out its software and Apple choose to sell their software with hardware.

Hmmm...and MS doesn't sell mice, keyboards, and Zunes?

What differentiates the two is that one company has intergrated hardware and software, and the other has a hodgepodge mess.

Neither one is a hardware company, although Apple is trying to move in that direction with the aquisition of PA Semi, but that is such a recent development that the company culture is still software.

Apple was heavy into hardware manufacturing early on (Wo & Jobs) and later began to farm out the manufacturing. However, Apple is highly involved in the internal hardware design and look and feel of the hardware. Were they not so hardware focused, an iPod or iPhone would not be such a success. As I understand it, besides PA Semi, Apple is also pushing the envelope in their own battery design and manufacturing.

One would hardly think that the packaging that a product arrives in has anything to do with software design. Apple is unique in the attention they apple to every aspect of how their hardware product is presented to the customer. Additionally, as any good hardware manufacturer, Apple follows their commitment all the way through storefronts, advertising and customer service.

Your attempt tp rewrite history is fail.

Intel, Cisco, TI, SIIG, Asus, Micron, Samsung, Seimens, etc. those are hardward companies

Some of those are component manufactures, AND they write software, even down to the chip instruction sets.

 

[rolphi]

Do you even try to understand what people are writing? DELL might be in bad shape but it does not mean that all PC companies are. Do you even know that HP makes twice as much profits as Apple? Ignorance is a bliss.

Last complete fiscal year:

AAPL
Revenue: $40.34B
Gross Profit: $17.22B
EBITDA: $10.00B

HPQ
Revenue: $114.55B
Gross Profit: $27.03B
EBITDA: $15.80B

HP's PSG (Personal Systems Group)
Net Revenue: $35.3B
Earnings from Operations: $1.66B

HP is making money, but it's not from selling PC hardware. And their operating profit margin from PSG is only 4.7%!

Someone at HP headquarters is running numbers on spinning off this division because that can't be good for Return on Investment.

This being business, no CEO wants to be in charge of the most popular company to ever go bankrupt. HP is number 1 in market share but can't use that position to make money. Meanwhile, their partner Microsoft is making record profits.

Why should Apple want to trade places with them again?

 

[SandynJosh]

I forgot about Microsoft's record quarter. I remember thinking that people on this site would never mention that since they only visit mac related sites, so wouldn't know about how others are doing. Totally flew over my head when I read someone say that Microsoft is dead.

It's a forgivable error... when something stinks bad, one begins to think something died.

 

[alent1234]

Last complete fiscal year:

AAPL
Revenue: $40.34B
Gross Profit: $17.22B
EBITDA: $10.00B

HPQ
Revenue: $114.55B
Gross Profit: $27.03B
EBITDA: $15.80B

HP's PSG (Personal Systems Group)
Net Revenue: $35.3B
Earnings from Operations: $1.66B

HP is making money, but it's not from selling PC hardware. And their operating profit margin from PSG is only 4.7%!

Someone at HP headquarters is running numbers on spinning off this division because that can't be good for Return on Investment.

This being business, no CEO wants to be in charge of the most popular company to ever go bankrupt. HP is number 1 in market share but can't use that position to make money. Meanwhile, their partner Microsoft is making record profits.

Why should Apple want to trade places with them again?

HP isn't going to spin off the PC division. along with Dell they make money on the services. they will give you PC's for free or at cost if you sign a contract with them to have them set up by HP.

last year i spent 2 months bargaining with HP for a $80,000 purchase. the servers never came down in price because they are already sold at cost. we got a great deal on the storage part and even today the same products cost more than we paid almost a year ago.

 

[alent1234]

This is why people think macs are too expensive, because apple has killed the high end laptop market.

Oh and by the way, the truth is out about windows 7, that little bump MS had is over. Most of the bump was probably just us geeks who bought the OS just to try it anyway. Being completely honest, i heavily prefer vista over windows 7, at this stage vista is much more mature and stable.

all the geeks got windows 7 for free

 

[SandynJosh]

Last complete fiscal year:

HP's PSG (Personal Systems Group)
Net Revenue: $35.3B
Earnings from Operations: $1.66B

HP is making money, but it's not from selling PC hardware. And their operating profit margin from PSG is only 4.7%!

Someone at HP headquarters is running numbers on spinning off this division because that can't be good for Return on Investment.

This being business, no CEO wants to be in charge of the most popular company to ever go bankrupt. HP is number 1 in market share but can't use that position to make money. Meanwhile, their partner Microsoft is making record profits.

Why should Apple want to trade places with them again?

I'm not sure of HP's printer division is part of the PSG division, but I don't think so. HP makes great printers and that market is not crowded with competitors, however they make such bad quality computers that 24% of them die and go to heaven before they are three years old. That should impact any company's profits greatly.

But you say HP is number one in market share...what market share are you referring to? With which products? And are you referring to U.S. markets or worldwide? I'm not even sure HP is making their own computers, or just slapping their lable on some crap. HP makes great stuff otherwise.

 

[Eidorian]

HP isn't going to spin off the PC division. along with Dell they make money on the services. they will give you PC's for free or at cost if you sign a contract with them to have them set up by HP.

last year i spent 2 months bargaining with HP for a $80,000 purchase. the servers never came down in price because they are already sold at cost. we got a great deal on the storage part and even today the same products cost more than we paid almost a year ago.

I remember when the Apple rep showed up. They never wanted to back down on the price of the hardware in volume. They were happy to give us a discounts on services though. Not that we needed them.

 

[alent1234]

Please provide some evidence to back up your statement.

you need a Mac for iphone development. Apple's market share is either up .1% or it dropped depending on which survey you believe. there is no mass migration to Mac's. I tell people that a low end iMac costs the same as a similar Dell. they don't care since they don't care about the better quality LCD. the regular LCD's are good enough for them

 

[alent1234]

I remember when the Apple rep showed up. They never wanted to back down on the price of the hardware in volume. They were happy to give us a discounts on services though. Not that we needed them.

and i don't think fortune 500 companies care that Mac's come with iLife

 

[rolphi]

HP isn't going to spin off the PC division. along with Dell they make money on the services. they will give you PC's for free or at cost if you sign a contract with them to have them set up by HP.

last year i spent 2 months bargaining with HP for a $80,000 purchase. the servers never came down in price because they are already sold at cost. we got a great deal on the storage part and even today the same products cost more than we paid almost a year ago.

Couldn't they spin off to another company with lower ROI requirements and still be able to make those deals? HP doesn't have to OWN the company to do that do they? Does IBM do this with Lenovo? I honestly don't know.

At 4.7%, HP would be better off putting that capital somewhere else.

 

[Eidorian]

and i don't think fortune 500 companies care that Mac's come with iLife

We sure as hell didn't. I don't remember anyone using iLife beyond iTunes. Even that's debatable as an iLife application.

Couldn't they spin off to another company with lower ROI requirements and still be able to make those deals? HP doesn't have to OWN the company to do that do they? Does IBM do this with Lenovo? I honestly don't know.

At 4.7%, HP would be better off putting that capital somewhere else.

Lenovo bought IBM's PC line and got the ThinkPad name. If you buy a ThinkPad or other Lenovo hardware today it has no relation to IBM anymore.

 

[SandynJosh]

ast year i spent 2 months bargaining with HP for a $80,000 purchase. the servers never came down in price because they are already sold at cost. we got a great deal on the storage part and even today the same products cost more than we paid almost a year ago.

That would be a most unusual business plan, "We'll sell them at cost and make it up in volume."

I think some salesman's nose grew a bit after telling you that one.

Is the server division any part of the personal computer division? A recent study showed that 24% of HP PCs don't make it to their third birthday. A company will burn through a lot of customers at that rate unless they give out free replacements...and even then, the data loss isn't worth the free PC. Everyone loses on that one.

 

[rolphi]

I'm not sure of HP's printer division is part of the PSG division, but I don't think so. HP makes great printers and that market is not crowded with competitors, however they make such bad quality computers that 24% of them die and go to heaven before they are three years old. That should impact any company's profits greatly.

But you say HP is number one in market share...what market share are you referring to? With which products? And are you referring to U.S. markets or worldwide? I'm not even sure HP is making their own computers, or just slapping their lable on some crap. HP makes great stuff otherwise.

HP PSG does not include Services, Enterprise Storage and
Servers (‘‘ESS’’), HP Software, the Imaging and Printing Group
(‘‘IPG’’), HP Financial Services (‘‘HPFS’’), or Corporate Investments.

All I got from the annual statement was:
"Over the course of the
year, PSG not only reaffirmed its position as the
worldwide leader in PC market share, but also
captured the #1 position in the U.S. enterprise
market with double-digit share gains."

 

[dsnort]

and i don't think fortune 500 companies care that Mac's come with iLife

And Apple apparently doesn't care what fortune 500 companies use.

Don't you get it? A fortune 500 CEO would! Even a CIO! It's not about market share unless your product is commoditized. It's about profitability!

"Macs are only 5% of the global market."

"Yeah, but it's the best most profitable 5%."

 

[SandynJosh]

you need a Mac for iphone development. Apple's market share is either up .1% or it dropped depending on which survey you believe. there is no mass migration to Mac's. I tell people that a low end iMac costs the same as a similar Dell. they don't care since they don't care about the better quality LCD. the regular LCD's are good enough for them

I doubt the number of sales of Macs to people that want to write iFarts for the iPhone amounted to more then a pimple on a frog's a**, and beside Apple was selling Macs for decades before the iPhone.

What the iPhone did do for the Macs was to give Apple a lot of attention and prestege which did boost Mac sales noticeably.

 

[SandynJosh]

HP PSG does not include Services, Enterprise Storage and
Servers (‘‘ESS’’), HP Software, the Imaging and Printing Group
(‘‘IPG’’), HP Financial Services (‘‘HPFS’’), or Corporate Investments.

All I got from the annual statement was:
"Over the course of the
year, PSG not only reaffirmed its position as the
worldwide leader in PC market share, but also
captured the #1 position in the U.S. enterprise
market with double-digit share gains."

Thanks for the follow up. I'm sorry to say I haven't followed HP since the late 70s when they had a robust calculator and lab instrument business and an emerging printer division.

 

[rolphi]

you need a Mac for iphone development. Apple's market share is either up .1% or it dropped depending on which survey you believe. there is no mass migration to Mac's. I tell people that a low end iMac costs the same as a similar Dell. they don't care since they don't care about the better quality LCD. the regular LCD's are good enough for them

There may be a mass migration in sales to home users. Take out enterprise sales and netbooks (which is a lot to take out I know) and the result is just what this report is illustrating.

The reason to take them out is that Microsoft makes money on those sales, but the manufacturers are not.

When regular people spend their own money on a desktop/laptop they are increasingly buying Macs.

And I tend not to give purchasing advice to anyone I'm not related to and therefore already on the hook for providing free tech support.

 

[cmaier]

HP isn't going to spin off the PC division. along with Dell they make money on the services. they will give you PC's for free or at cost if you sign a contract with them to have them set up by HP.
.

That logic should have applied even more so to IBM. Now we have Lenovo.

 

[SandynJosh]

I would quite simply stop using a computer at all if Windows were the only solution. Never mind the malware problem (and some idiot upthread was rehashing the old "smaller target" argument! Dear God!) Never mind the pain and suffering of trying to get Windows to work at all. Never mind having to reinstall it monthly, and being told you're trying to pirate it. Never mind any of that—I simply refuse to use an OS that crashes every five minutes. Any of you who claim Windows never crashes for you are quite simply lying. Hitting "control-alt-delete" 100 times a day and starting your work over from scratch is unacceptable. Maybe the kind of hobbyists who build their own computers are willing to put up with it, but most people aren't.

I know how you feel. The only program on my Mac that fails regularly is MS Word. Sometimes it salvages my work, most times not.

I once had to use a Gateway computer running XP. For no reason at all it would reboot itself... maybe that was an undocumented feature.