1 Month In - Thinking of going MBP

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Why do you judge performance based on opening Handbrake? That's like saying textedit will open the same on both. That about the worst example EVER. Try Photoshop, or MS Word, or Acrobat Pro... rMB will still be bouncing when the rMBP and MBA are fully loaded.

Nice dig with the last comment. I guess you just want to blindly defend the sub-par CPU.

If you had read previously; I have opened multiple productivity, applications in combination with associated documents, with no appreciable difference. The reason for HandBrake is it`s free, ubiquitous, neatly illustrates the difference in a "Burst" workload and sustained multi core workload in a single application.

If your not happy with the rMB, move on it`s that easy. At the end of the day the only person you need to convince that the rMB is not suitable for your needs is yourself. Personally I thought long & hard over the rMB or an equivalent Air (8Gb, 512 SSD) I came down on the side of the rMB as ultimately it suits my need & workflow better. As I wanted an ultraportable as a secondary system in the field, as opposed to two rMBP`s.

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The base model got a 0.1ghz speed bump. The ultimate did not - the same 1.7ghz i7 was used in both the 2013 and 2014. As I said there was NO difference in the ultimate model hardware between those two years.

I know because it was 2014 when I upgraded my MBA. There were many articles then about there being no hardware differences in any of the MBAs other than the slight speed bump on the base model.
 
The base model got a 0.1ghz speed bump. The ultimate did not - the same 1.7ghz i7 was used in both the 2013 and 2014. As I said there was NO difference in the ultimate model hardware between those two years.

I know because it was 2014 when I upgraded my MBA. There were many articles then about there being no hardware differences in any of the MBAs other than the slight speed bump on the base model.

Not even on the SSDs either?
 
Not even on the SSDs either?

Nothing. You got one of the same two they used the previous year. Hence the price drop - only way to keep up sales on a new model year that was identical to the previous. Got a lot of bad press at the time, especially after the tear downs. I decided on a 2013 refurb because it was cheaper and identical in hardware spec to the 2014. If you read ALL of the tech-buffalo article you will see all the specs are the same (on the ultimate model). Once you updated the 2013 to the same OS as the 2014 even the benchmarks (including battery life) turned out the same. There were some SSD performance differences between the two manufacturers but it was luck of the draw when one of the two you would get in either model year. And the rMB SSD is faster then either of the SSDs in the MBA in those years.

Not sure where shenan1982 is coming from. He continues to make wide generalizations based on his individual experience, and many threads here have plenty of examples that are very different from his experience. Every time someone has a different experience from his he accuses them of being defective or exaggerating or lying. I expect he's being honest about his experience but he can't seem to conceive of the idea that others can have a different experience and he keeps making factually inaccurate statements (like the GPU - which actually has higher performance on the rMB than a 13/14 MBA, or that the 14 ultimate MBA is much faster than the 13).
 
Nothing. You got one of the same two they used the previous year. Hence the price drop - only way to keep up sales on a new model year that was identical to the previous. Got a lot of bad press at the time, especially after the tear downs. I decided on a 2013 refurb because it was cheaper and identical in hardware spec to the 2014. If you read ALL of the tech-buffalo article you will see all the specs are the same (on the ultimate model). Once you updated the 2013 to the same OS as the 2014 even the benchmarks (including battery life) turned out the same. There were some SSD performance differences between the two manufacturers but it was luck of the draw when one of the two you would get in either model year. And the rMB SSD is faster then either of the SSDs in the MBA in those years.

Not sure where shenan1982 is coming from. He continues to make wide generalizations based on his individual experience, and many threads here have plenty of examples that are very different from his experience. Every time someone has a different experience from his he accuses them of being defective or exaggerating or lying. I expect he's being honest about his experience but he can't seem to conceive of the idea that others can have a different experience and he keeps making factually inaccurate statements (like the GPU - which actually has higher performance on the rMB than a 13/14 MBA, or that the 14 ultimate MBA is much faster than the 13).

Good to know. Thanks!
 
Not sure where shenan1982 is coming from. He continues to make wide generalizations based on his individual experience, and many threads here have plenty of examples that are very different from his experience. Every time someone has a different experience from his he accuses them of being defective or exaggerating or lying. I expect he's being honest about his experience but he can't seem to conceive of the idea that others can have a different experience and he keeps making factually inaccurate statements (like the GPU - which actually has higher performance on the rMB than a 13/14 MBA, or that the 14 ultimate MBA is much faster than the 13).

Wide generalizations? Have you read the forums? If you have to disable a key visual component of an OS in order to get rid of lag, you have to agree there's an issue.
 
Thought I'd add my two cents. I have a MBPr, fully maxed out. That thing is a beast; very fast. I also have a Macbook Retina, the base model. With Yosemite, it was pretty darn slow compared to my MBPr. However, I have installed the DP of 10.11 on my MB, and it speed things up significantly (including Mail). It feels as snappy as my Macbook Air (2014) is. Even Photoshop opens up in ~2 seconds (the intro screen/animation being 1 second of that total).
 
Thought I'd add my two cents. I have a MBPr, fully maxed out. That thing is a beast; very fast. I also have a Macbook Retina, the base model. With Yosemite, it was pretty darn slow compared to my MBPr. However, I have installed the DP of 10.11 on my MB, and it speed things up significantly (including Mail). It feels as snappy as my Macbook Air (2014) is. Even Photoshop opens up in ~2 seconds (the intro screen/animation being 1 second of that total).

I agree, my mail complaint has become less of an issue. But it's still there nonetheless even on 10.11, just not as bad. Hopefully they can really tweak under the hood and get these issues resolved in 10.11 by the time they release.
 
Wide generalizations? Have you read the forums? If you have to disable a key visual component of an OS in order to get rid of lag, you have to agree there's an issue.
His point is just what you have illustrated in this response. There are plenty of threads and videos out there showing zero lag with all transparency turned on as well, and it has been hypothesised that the OS UI lag is actually not a problem with the hardware, but with the software, and it has been a documented problem on ALL of the rMBP's as well as the rMB. But you seem to be ignoring all of these and only seeing the one's that are similar to your experience.

Nobody here is saying that the rMB is a match for the rMBP's or even the 2015 MBA's - I think all of the honest posters here will readily agree that we are talking about a fanless core M CPU design. Even as well implemented as it is by Apple, it is never going to give you the same performance for most of the use cases you are describing and that you use it for (correct me if I am wrong, but have seen you active in most of the gaming and photo/video editing/encoding threads here in the MB section of the forums).

Nobody is disputing that. However, what most people here appear to be pleasantly surprised about is that the rMB exceeds their modest expectations, and feels on par with its more powerful siblings in most everyday general computing tasks, while performing better than expected doing the occasional heavy/intensive stuff like video transcoding, and some photo work.

Again, I don't think anybody here is saying it equals an rMBP for this stuff, just that it performs better than expected and adequately for what it is.

For example, the HD5300 in the rMB is actually more capable an iGPU than that in the 2013/14 MBA. However, it will get throttled a lot when pressed for probably anything more than 30sec at a time, and performance will be significantly impacted by that.

For what the machine is intended for, it in general provides an experience on par with all Macbooks, but you do have to be thoughtful about what your use case is going to be on a longer term, amd you can't come in expecting this to be a jack of all trades. In the Retina category, that is going to be your 13" rMBP. If ultraportablility and office/web productivity is your game, then the rMB is an excellent choice. If you are going to need a machine to be your primary computing device, and do everything from satisfy a gaming habit to being your Blu-ray disk burner to managing your DLSR photo library to being your band's music editing studio workhorse, then the rMB is a very bad choice.

I'm actually not even sure what you are trying to argue anymore. Is your opinion that the rMB doesn't even provide a good enough basic experience to fit in the Macbook line-up at all? In that case I will have to join the many who thoroughly disagree with that opinion. If you have massive lagging issues and feel your computer is unusable, you should take it in to an Apple store and see what they say after showing them the problems, and either get a replacement or trade up to a 13" rMBP. If the machine is faulty it doesn't matter if the two week period is over.

However, if your opinion is that the rMB should perform on the same level as its more powerful siblings in the heavy computing use cases noted above, then I would say your premise and expectations are entirely false and unreasonable in the first place.
 
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Why do you judge performance based on opening Handbrake? That's like saying textedit will open the same on both. That about the worst example EVER. Try Photoshop, or MS Word, or Acrobat Pro... rMB will still be bouncing when the rMBP and MBA are fully loaded.

Nice dig with the last comment. I guess you just want to blindly defend the sub-par CPU.
Why are you here? You don't like the machine, that's fine, so don't read that others do it seems to upset you. Just read on another thread you have a gold one, again why?
 
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What I've been pleasantly surprised with is the fact that this a version 1.0 product. To be honest, I purchased this with the expectation that I'd return it within a couple of weeks. I just wanted to try it out.

But I think this is a great first product. Performance is more than usable, battery life has been good, the screen looks great, and it has really exceeded my expectations.

I'm now even more curious for version 2.
 
Well said. While the rMB can be a great travel computer, or even a great daily driver for many, its no rMBP. For some, like myself, it can be a great replacement for a recent MBA, but for others, like shenan1982, it doesn't meet their needs.

I don't tell everyone that it will work for them - I share my opinion and context and that I think it might or might not depending on the use details they share. Folks it does not work for should do the same as both points of view are helpful to someone with questions.


His point is just what you have illustrated in this response. There are plenty of threads and videos out there showing zero lag with all transparency turned on as well, and it has been hypothesised that the OS UI lag is actually not a problem with the hardware, but with the software, and it has been a documented problem on ALL of the rMBP's as well as the rMB. But you seem to be ignoring all of these and only seeing the one's that are similar to your experience.

Nobody here is saying that the rMB is a match for the rMBP's or even the 2015 MBA's - I think all of the honest posters here will readily agree that we are talking about a fanless core M CPU design. Even as well implemented as it is by Apple, it is never going to give you the same performance for most of the use cases you are describing and that you use it for (correct me if I am wrong, but have seen you active in most of the gaming and photo/video editing/encoding threads here in the MB section of the forums).

Nobody is disputing that. However, what most people here appear to be pleasantly surprised about is that the rMB exceeds their modest expectations, and feels on par with its more powerful siblings in most everyday general computing tasks, while performing better than expected doing the occasional heavy/intensive stuff like video transcoding, and some photo work.

Again, I don't think anybody here is saying it equals an rMBP for this stuff, just that it performs better than expected and adequately for what it is.

For example, the HD5300 in the rMB is actually more capable an iGPU than that in the 2013/14 MBA. However, it will get throttled a lot when pressed for probably anything more than 30sec at a time, and performance will be significantly impacted by that.

For what the machine is intended for, it in general provides an experience on par with all Macbooks, but you do have to be thoughtful about what your use case is going to be on a longer term, amd you can't come in expecting this to be a jack of all trades. In the Retina category, that is going to be your 13" rMBP. If ultraportablility and office/web productivity is your game, then the rMB is an excellent choice. If you are going to need a machine to be your primary computing device, and do everything from satisfy a gaming habit to being your Blu-ray disk burner to managing your DLSR photo library to being your band's music editing studio workhorse, then the rMB is a very bad choice.

I'm actually not even sure what you are trying to argue anymore. Is your opinion that the rMB doesn't even provide a good enough basic experience to fit in the Macbook line-up at all? In that case I will have to join the many who thoroughly disagree with that opinion. If you have massive lagging issues and feel your computer is unusable, you should take it in to an Apple store and see what they say after showing them the problems, and either get a replacement or trade up to a 13" rMBP. If the machine is faulty it doesn't matter if the two week period is over.

However, if your opinion is that the rMB should perform on the same level as its more powerful siblings in the heavy computing use cases noted above, then I would say your premise and expectations are entirely false and unreasonable in the first place.
 
For many the rMB is a rational alternative to an air or rMBP, and certainly a solid secondary system, nor do I believe anyone considers the rMB to be even close in computational performance to a rMBP or the newer Air`s. UI lag and Retina has existed, since Apple launched the Retina in 2012. For some users it`s more prevalent and is also model dependent. The consensus being the root cause of the lag is poorly optimised software/drivers. There are multiple reports of 10.10.4 significantly improving lag on afflicted Retina Mac`s. 10.11 goes far further overhauling much of the underlying OS & UI mechanics, overall the response from the community is positive.

I was initially concerned with the rMB`d performance level, considering it borderline for my usage/workflow when referencing specifications, and was seriously considering an 11" Air with 8GB & 512 SSD, however the Air`s display is simply sub par, coming from HiDPI systems, nor does the 16:9 aspect ratio do any favours to those with productivity in mind. In use I have found the 1.2 rMB to be "snappy" and responsive, equally Core M has clear and obvious limits/boundaries.

Personally I am interested in what applications work best with Core M and the rMB. Debasing the product for the sake of is pointless, if others are describing adequate performance, I would be inclined to look deeper into the system, up to and including retuning it to Apple. How Core M performs is certainly very different directly compared to a typical Notebook CPU which brings positives and negatives across the board.

Q-6
 
Wide generalizations? Have you read the forums? If you have to disable a key visual component of an OS in order to get rid of lag, you have to agree there's an issue.

This has nothing to do with the Retina MacBook and Core M explicitly, this is across the board for many Retina Mac`s due to poor optimisation/coding by Apple, with some models effected more than others i.e the 2015 13" Broadwell MBP if anything the rMB has less issue than other Retina Mac`s, as Apple are becoming increasingly sensitive to the problem, and responding, albeit slowly.

The good is; with Windows 10 looming, Apple will be compelled to fix this nonsense or they risk loosing ground to Windows based systems running fast and fluid with far lower hardware requirements.


Q-6
 
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Don't mean to be rude, but to be blunt, if you have no perceptible difference in performance between a 1.2ghz rMB and a 2.8 ghz rMBP, there's either something wrong with your rMBP, or something wrong with your eyes. ;-)

You are to focused too much on CPU and GPU performance.

Opening applications might be much more taxing on the disk subsystem than the CPU and in such a workload the SSD becomes the bottleneck. And the new Macbook is much faster than rMBP and MBA for such disk activity that is normal during application load.

Also the CPU in the Macbook is pretty good at burst activity. And opening up an application normally just require burst performance from the CPU.

I have no problems believing that for many kinds of workloads that people do often (e.g. opening up applications) there will be little practical differences between these two machines.
 
I'm baffled as to the responses here. [...
Macbook's CPU is inferior to Macbook Air
Macbook's vGPU is inferior to Macbook Air

I question anyone's statements that their macbook, with a significantly less powerful CPU, performs as well as their rMBP or their MBA. It defies all logic.

It certainly only impossible if most workloads are CPU or GPU constrained. A lot of workloads are rather disk constrained and especially for random reads (and writes).

Also the Macbook is pretty good for quick burst CPU activity which again is very common for most workloads that people are using a Mac for.

In many cases, an SSD, might be the most important factor in noticeable performance for a computer, not the CPU.
 
There's nobody that says it's a screamer, that's simply delusional.

It's adequate, at best. "Fast" isn't an adjective for the rMB. If you think it is, you may want to try ANY other computer in Apple's lineup and then you'll feel different.

You miss the point of the RMB. It's not a replacement for the Pro or the Air. It's not for college students. It's a toy for a wealthy businessman who wants the thinnest and lightest notebook a lot of money can buy as a secondary machine for travel. And compared to other notebooks that fit that criteria, the RMB is a screamer. My Sony Pro 13 is a pig compared to my RMB. And in first class flying internationally, its size, its weight, its battery life are awesome and its board-meeting status just crushes it.

You bought the wrong notebook. Sorry. Just return it and stop the silly threads already.

BJ
 
You miss the point of the RMB. It's not a replacement for the Pro or the Air. It's not for college students. It's a toy for a wealthy businessman who wants the thinnest and lightest notebook a lot of money can buy as a secondary machine for travel. And compared to other notebooks that fit that criteria, the RMB is a screamer. My Sony Pro 13 is a pig compared to my RMB. And in first class flying internationally, its size, its weight, its battery life are awesome and its board-meeting status just crushes it.

You bought the wrong notebook. Sorry. Just return it and stop the silly threads already.

BJ

I agree with this to some level. If you compare the rMB to other ultrabooks in its class, the price doesn't seem outrageous.
 
1.2 Retina MacBook vs 2011 Air, it`s not only about benchmarks, the 2011, 11" Air (128) we have is not as responsive, and that`s how it is in real life...

Q-6

Nah, that's cool, I get it. It "feels" faster? :D Kind of like when I painted my car red.. it just feels faster, man.
 
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