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Nah, that's cool, I get it. It "feels" faster? :D Kind of like when I painted my car red.. it just feels faster, man.

Dude am just telling you what I see, latest Air (i7) will "Smoke " the rMB computationally this base 2011 11" here right now not so, it`s clearly slower. Likely it`s a combination of CPU and the SSD more than anything else. Have a 2011 256 i5 13" MBA kicking around as well, but can't compare since my youngest did some water experiments with it, and now it runs like an old 3 legged dog :rolleyes:

Q-6
 
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2015 MBA? *Maybe* compare core M to the cpu in the 2011 MBA if lucky.
You like to go by benchmarks, right? So I don't get it:

(Source: Everymac.com)

2011 11" MBA 1.6 Core i5
GB 64bit - 1970 single 3748 multi

2015 12" Macbook 1.1 Core M
GB 64bit - 2375 single 4527 multi


2012 11" MBA 1.7 Core i5
GB 64bit - 2395 single 4812 multi

2013 11" MBA 1.3 Core i5
GB 64bit - 2610 single 5068 multi

2014 11" MBA 1.4 Core i5
GB 64bit - 2744 single 5375 multi

2015 11" MBA 1.6 Core i5
GB 64bit - 2866 single 5723 multi

2015 12" Macbook 1.3 Core M
GB 64bit - 2866 single 5839 multi

I don't know about you but my interpretation of this based solely upon these traditional benchmark numbers is as follows.

The rMB base model is far ahead of the 2011 base model, and in line with the 2012 base model. You have to go all the way to the 2015 base model for the rMB to fall behind as much as it is ahead of the 2011 model, if looking at score differences. For an outside reference point I have put the high end 5Y71 1.3 Core M rMB model, which scores essentially the same or higher than the 2015 MBA base model.

Then of course these scores tend to favor traditional actively cooled CPU's that can chug on without throttling down. This makes the rMB scores that much more impressive considering passive cooling and the TDP threshold they have to work within.

It is well documented that the Core M CPU gets to full turbo much more quickly than the Core i processors, so when someone says that it "feels" just as quick or quicker, it isn't a placebo effect as you so dismissively attribute it to.

It feels good to be smug and all, I know that, but getting informed and educated on the subject matter will stop the smugness from being misplaced.
 
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I think this first entry into the new MacBook world (12 inch) is just a beginning. A stepping stone. Much like the first underpowered MacBook Air people said was downright unusable, I think this product needs time to catch up. Which is exactly why I'm waiting until at least v2 to give it a try. and even then, I know it's not meant for power intensive stuff. Just basic web stuff and coding
If that is the case, why buy it now, especially given the price? I'm not disagreeing with you, but you seem to be making the argument that its not a good buy at this point.
 
If that is the case, why buy it now, especially given the price? I'm not disagreeing with you, but you seem to be making the argument that its not a good buy at this point.

Nearly everyone in this thread has to qualify their ownership of this Mac.

"It's an awesome machine, BUT" _________________

A. "I wouldn't use it as my only Mac"
B. "I only have modest requirements"
C. "the issues it has are reasonable given its a 1st gen product"

Then there are the deniers who turn the recognised weaknesses into strengths or dismiss them altogether.

"It's an awesome machine, " _________________

A. "Never in my life have I used a printer/wired mouse or keyboard/USB storage/wired ethernet/SDCard"
B. "I actually like that the keyboard has less travel and an odd layout, I can type faster!"
C. "I never see any UI lag with Yosemite, it's perfect"

These kinds of compromises and self-delusions should not have to be made on a Mac which costs this much.
 
Nearly everyone in this thread has to qualify their ownership of this Mac.

"It's an awesome machine, BUT" _________________

A. "I wouldn't use it as my only Mac"
B. "I only have modest requirements"
C. "the issues it has are reasonable given its a 1st gen product"

Then there are the deniers who turn the recognised weaknesses into strengths or dismiss them altogether.

"It's an awesome machine, " _________________

A. "Never in my life have I used a printer/wired mouse or keyboard/USB storage/wired ethernet/SDCard"
B. "I actually like that the keyboard has less travel and an odd layout, I can type faster!"
C. "I never see any UI lag with Yosemite, it's perfect"

These kinds of compromises and self-delusions should not have to be made on a Mac which costs this much, IMHO.

Fixed it for you.
 
Nearly everyone in this thread has to qualify their ownership of this Mac.

"It's an awesome machine, BUT" _________________

A. "I wouldn't use it as my only Mac"
B. "I only have modest requirements"
C. "the issues it has are reasonable given its a 1st gen product"

Then there are the deniers who turn the recognised weaknesses into strengths or dismiss them altogether.

"It's an awesome machine, " _________________

A. "Never in my life have I used a printer/wired mouse or keyboard/USB storage/wired ethernet/SDCard"
B. "I actually like that the keyboard has less travel and an odd layout, I can type faster!"
C. "I never see any UI lag with Yosemite, it's perfect"

These kinds of compromises and self-delusions should not have to be made on a Mac which costs this much.
But what about my factual benchmark scores above, and the fact that my rMB crushes my old 2011 i7 MBA both in benchmarks and real world experience whilst providing more screen real estate with monstrously better colour accuracy and viewing angles, and 3 times the battery life?

What about the fact that I have a lighter, less cumbersome laptop bag now than I did with my 11" MBA setup, and actually have more wired connections available to me now than with the MBA to boot?

Everything is relative.

You seem to think that the rMB should be a no compromises Mac Pro killer in a size 1 dress and cater to every possible use case any Mac has ever been subjected to and blow everything else away. Why, pray tell, is that even close to a realistic expectation level? Because it was released in 2015? You do realise the we are talking about a Broadwell Core M packaged in an ultralight, ultra thin, fanless design right?

Why is the universal UI lag in OS X known to plague every single retina Mac model there is suddenly a hardware problem only when talking about a rMB, but mysteriously transmutes into a software/optimisation/driver issue when talking about a mighty Ultimate 15" rMBP?

Why is one extra adapter or cable exaggerated into a "bag full of dongles and external hubs" when in fact the flexibility of that one USB-C port allows a user to actually make that laptop bag lighter and more efficient than ever before whilst still maintaining at least an equal number of wired connections, leaving aside the entire wireless argument.

I make no reservations about the rMB. For me personally, it was a major upgrade that resulted in zero compromises and in fact made my work more productive, allowing me to work harder and longer than ever before, my workflows more free and flexible than ever before, and my Mac experience better in every way than ever before.

I've never owned a rMBP, and I probably never will. I don't do gaming, audio, video or photos, and only very basic graphics on my Macbooks, they are purely for my professional work, which involves business management, finance and accounting. The other stuff is personal and I do it on the stationary home media server. iMovie, Photos, Blu-ray burning and transcoding, media library stuff, all on the desktop.

YMMV of course, and obviously, if you've even done more than played around with a demo at a store, it does, because your use is probably very different than mine, and in that case the rMB isn't a good fit for you, but to just blindly say that the rMB doesn't provide a basic Mac and OS X experience that isn't every bit as good as its more powerful brethren is just that - blind - and uninformed - and sensationalist.
 
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Nearly everyone in this thread has to qualify their ownership of this Mac.

"It's an awesome machine, BUT" _________________

These kinds of compromises and self-delusions should not have to be made on a Mac which costs this much.

You have inadvertently struck upon the exact reason for this notebook's existence.

It's not intended to be anyone's primary notebook. It's a situational player. It's a relief pitcher. Remember what Steve Jobs said about the iPad? "It doesn't have to do everything, but it has to be very good at just a few things."? That's the RMB.

95% of the computing public doesn't use 95% of the computing power found in other MacBooks yet they have to drag around all this bulk and all this weight and all this noise just to do email, light spreadsheets, Powerpoint presentations, surf the web, and buy from Amazon. Anyone who buys a RMB and is disappointed in the performance is one of those 5%ers and clearly they know enough to do their homework first.

And for the rest of us? We're thrilled. We don't game on a notebook, we don't make videos, we don't write code, we don't do ten things at once. I'm a senior executive and travel extensively. My company IT guy gives us all this clunky, overweight, 2005 caliber HP notebook that weighs 7 pounds which I use at my desk 300 days a year. I reach into my own pocket and fork over $2000 every 2-3 years to get the lightest/thinnest notebook just to use on those 65 days that I'm on the road. Super light, super thin, gorgeous screen, no fan, tremendous battery life, rock star status symbol.

That's what the RMB is for. It's not for college students, it's not for programmers, it's not for hardcore gamers. It's a pricey relief pitcher for a wealthy businessman.

BJ
 
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That's what the RMB is for. It's not for college students, it's not for programmers, it's not for hardcore gamers. It's a pricey relief pitcher for a wealthy businessman.
BJ

Oh, BJ...

I generally agree with your sentiment, but you really do like to call yourself a wealthy businessman a lot, don't you! ;)

It is my primary professional "business man" device,and will be pitching complete games for a few seasons to come I imagine.

Plus, I do in fact do 10 things at once :)
 
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You have inadvertently struck upon the exact reason for this notebook's existence.

It's not intended to be anyone's primary notebook. It's a situational player. It's a relief pitcher. Remember what Steve Jobs said about the iPad? "It doesn't have to do everything, but it has to be very good at just a few things."? That's the RMB.

95% of the computing public doesn't use 95% of the computing power found in other MacBooks yet they have to drag around all this bulk and all this weight and all this noise just to do email, light spreadsheets, Powerpoint presentations, surf the web, and buy from Amazon. Anyone who buys a RMB and is disappointed in the performance is one of those 5%ers and clearly they know enough to do their homework first.

And for the rest of us? We're thrilled. We don't game on a notebook, we don't make videos, we don't write code, we don't do ten things at once. I'm a senior executive and travel extensively. My company IT guy gives us all this clunky, overweight, 2005 caliber HP notebook that weighs 7 pounds which I use at my desk 300 days a year. I reach into my own pocket and fork over $2000 every 2-3 years to get the lightest/thinnest notebook just to use on those 65 days that I'm on the road. Super light, super thin, gorgeous screen, no fan, tremendous battery life, rock star status symbol.

That's what the RMB is for. It's not for college students, it's not for programmers, it's not for hardcore gamers. It's a pricey relief pitcher for a wealthy businessman.

BJ

Try carrying around a 14" Dell with 3gb of RAM. I travel 2.5 weeks a month and paid my own money so that horrible Dell (dude you're getting a Dell!) would collect dust for a looooooong time.

I wouldn't call myself wealthy. I just prioritized what I want out of a machine.

With that being said, I feel that if I didn't travel as much as I do, then I'd never even consider this product.

And to the people that are up in arms about the price of this computer, I actually have a bigger issue with the price of a 5K iMac. $3K, really? My Mac mini was a few hundred, upgrade RAM to 16gb and install an SSD. Then add a 27" 4K monitor for $400 and I have what seems like a very similar product for less than half the price.

So it really is all relative.
 
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Nearly everyone in this thread has to qualify their ownership of this Mac.

"It's an awesome machine, BUT" _________________

A. "I wouldn't use it as my only Mac"
B. "I only have modest requirements"
C. "the issues it has are reasonable given its a 1st gen product"

Then there are the deniers who turn the recognised weaknesses into strengths or dismiss them altogether.

"It's an awesome machine, " _________________

A. "Never in my life have I used a printer/wired mouse or keyboard/USB storage/wired ethernet/SDCard"
B. "I actually like that the keyboard has less travel and an odd layout, I can type faster!"
C. "I never see any UI lag with Yosemite, it's perfect"

These kinds of compromises and self-delusions should not have to be made on a Mac which costs this much.

This pretty much sums it up. I could give a rat's ass about benchmarks and numbers but in real world usage, it is definitely slower than my previous 13-Inch MacBook Air 2013 and even my wife's 2012 MBA.

I've taken this thing from coast to coast across the USA and it is a fantastic travel companion but this can no way be my main device for what I use it for. You are definitely better off with a 13-Inch Air or even a MacBook Pro if you can only have the choice of one.

There are some compromises in performance but it's portability may be worth it for frequent travelers or people who can afford to look cool in a Starbucks. The only reason why I am keeping mine is because I paid for it at a price in which I think was totally worth it, which was $872 for an open box at best buy on top of a 10% movers discount :)
 
This pretty much sums it up. I could give a rat's ass about benchmarks and numbers but in real world usage, it is definitely slower than my previous 13-Inch MacBook Air 2013 and even my wife's 2012 MBA.

I've taken this thing from coast to coast across the USA and it is a fantastic travel companion but this can no way be my main device for what I use it for. You are definitely better off with a 13-Inch Air or even a MacBook Pro if you can only have the choice of one.

There are some compromises in performance but it's portability may be worth it for frequent travelers or people who can afford to look cool in a Starbucks. The only reason why I am keeping mine is because I paid for it at a price in which I think was totally worth it, which was $872 for an open box at best buy on top of a 10% movers discount :)

I love looking cool at Starbucks ;)
 
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Try carrying around a 14" Dell with 3gb of RAM. I travel 2.5 weeks a month and paid my own money so that horrible Dell (dude you're getting a Dell!) would collect dust for a looooooong time.

I wouldn't call myself wealthy. I just prioritized what I want out of a machine.

With that being said, I feel that if I didn't travel as much as I do, then I'd never even consider this product.

And to the people that are up in arms about the price of this computer, I actually have a bigger issue with the price of a 5K iMac. $3K, really? My Mac mini was a few hundred, upgrade RAM to 16gb and install an SSD. Then add a 27" 4K monitor for $400 and I have what seems like a very similar product for less than half the price.

So it really is all relative.
A Mac Mini with a 4K display could be a good cheaper alternative to the iMac 5K, however it doesn't even support 4K@60Hz. For now you are stuck with more expensive hardware if you want 4K or 5K. For now.
 
What about the fact that I have a lighter, less cumbersome laptop bag now than I did with my 11" MBA setup, and actually have more wired connections available to me now than with the MBA to boot?

Find me a review of the 11" Macbook Air which complains about the thickness, weight or size and i'll concede you've got a point.

No one *ever* made these complaints about the 11" MBA.

All anyone wanted was the MBA with a Retina screen, but Ive couldn't help his compulsion towards form over function. I'm sure in a few years the rMB will be like opening two pieces of paper and the keys will have no travel. You and everyone else will be trumpeting its benefits and ranting about how disgustingly thick the 2015 rMB is...
 
Find me a review of the 11" Macbook Air which complains about the thickness, weight or size and i'll concede you've got a point.

No one *ever* made these complaints about the 11" MBA.

All anyone wanted was the MBA with a Retina screen, but Ive couldn't help his compulsion towards form over function. I'm sure in a few years the rMB will be like opening two pieces of paper and the keys will have no travel. You and everyone else will be trumpeting its benefits and ranting about how disgustingly thick the 2015 rMB is...

So continue to enjoy your 13" MBA and we will continue to enjoy our rMBs.

I tend to agree with you in the sense that all I wanted Apple to do was to put a Retina screen on the MBA (and change the bezels to black) and I would've (as with millions of others) loved my new purchase. They didn't, and in turn made the sleekest ultraportable anybody has ever seen. And next year when version 2 comes out and is even better, you'll be selling your MBA for your own rMB.

It's the way of the world.
 
All anyone wanted was the MBA with a Retina screen, but Ive couldn't help his compulsion towards form over function...

I wonder what that'd do to battery life. Probably would have maimed it. But of course we'd never know now, and now we're stuck making a choice between a low-cost entry-level portable with great battery life or one of the best looking and lightweight ultraportable around. Not to mention the abundance of Windows ultrabooks.

Disastrous.
 
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I have a 13" 2014 MBP i7 fully loaded ... and just got the 1.3 rMB and can honestly say the difference is very minimal for an average user ... I use your usual suite of Office products, Light Photoshop use, and Parallels with Win 8.1 for some more advanced Excel files .... and I find the performance of the rMB incredible. Battery life is acceptable, and screen, keyboard, trackpad and sound in my opinion is SUPERIOR to the MBP. Of course, the rMB is new and I have been having fun with it, but have had no desire in my regular work and personal use to go back to the Pro ... i rarely go to the iPad anymore mainly because there is very little difference in size between the 2 machines ... everyone has their reasons for one machine or another ... but I am enjoying this macbook quite well as a daily driver ...
 
Find me a review of the 11" Macbook Air which complains about the thickness, weight or size and i'll concede you've got a point.

No one *ever* made these complaints about the 11" MBA.

All anyone wanted was the MBA with a Retina screen, but Ive couldn't help his compulsion towards form over function. I'm sure in a few years the rMB will be like opening two pieces of paper and the keys will have no travel. You and everyone else will be trumpeting its benefits and ranting about how disgustingly thick the 2015 rMB is...
You're right. But that's the way things are with technology. There's actually quite a few reviews out there about the 2015 MBA that mention things like, "...even though its not quite as thin and light as the new Macbook..." or, "...no longer the lightweight of the Macbook line-up, its still..." without explicitly being negative about it, but that's the nature of the game.

It's the same with most things. People weren't clamouring about how crap Macbook displays were before retina was introduced on the iPhone and iPad, but then people were calling for it on the MBP's. They got it, but they lost the Super Drive at the same time. SSD's? Nobody was complaining about the speed of HDD's before SSD's were introduced, but what would you say if the MBP came with one today? The trade-off there was reduced internal storage capacity, which is still a compromise made to this day.

I totally get that you wanted your U-series Core i active cooled CPU with a retina display and are angry and resentful that Apple chose to make a whole new machine that doesn't fit your particular requirements, or perceived requirements.

But, it seems everything you are knocking the rMB for is an outside perception. Looking ar your devices, maybe you should test drive one for real? You've already got a high end 13" MBP.

The rMB is a pretty solid machine, and the "new" MBA. Your ranting won't change that, and instead of trying to rip it a new one like you have for the past 3 months, maybe it might be worth giving it a go instead.
 
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I wonder what that'd do to battery life. Probably would have maimed it.

My guess is that by that stage Ive will need to get the engineers to do away with the battery altogether and the rMB will parasitically draw energy from its host organism... errr I mean Apple customer.
 
People weren't clamouring about how crap Macbook displays were before retina was introduced on the iPhone and iPad, but then people were calling for it on the MBP's. They got it, but they lost the Super Drive at the same time. SSD's? Nobody was complaining about the speed of HDD's before SSD's were introduced, but what would you say if the MBP came with one today? The trade-off there was reduced internal storage capacity, which is still a compromise made to this day.

Yes, but SSDs are HiDPI screens are absolute game-changers. I knew as soon as I used these technologies that I would not happily live without them. The same can't be said for the new form factor, especially when I consider all the flexibility I am giving up by losing ports.

I totally get that you wanted your U-series Core i active cooled CPU with a retina display and are angry and resentful that Apple chose to make a whole new machine that doesn't fit your particular requirements, or perceived requirements.

But, it seems everything you are knocking the rMB for is an outside perception. Looking ar your devices, maybe you should test drive one for real? You've already got a high end 13" MBP.

The rMB is a pretty solid machine, and the "new" MBA. Your ranting won't change that, and instead of trying to rip it a new one like you have for the past 3 months, maybe it might be worth giving it a go instead.

Actually my main gripe is not CPU performance, its lack of ports. For me, its not like losing stuff like floppy drives, DVDs, modems (as I was had done away with this stuff years before they were removed) and use the ports everyday. Lack of ports is what most irritates me about the iPad and that's what the rMB seems like to me - an iPad with a keyboard and running OS X.

I would bet that the second gen will include at least one more port (probably on the other side), and if they do that, it's as good as Apple admitting they made a mistake on the first gen. (and I don't buy first gen as a rule anyways).

I rant because I really wanted this to be a machine for me, and in its current state, its not.
 
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All anyone wanted was the MBA with a Retina screen, but Ive couldn't help his compulsion towards form over function. I'm sure in a few years the rMB will be like opening two pieces of paper and the keys will have no travel. You and everyone else will be trumpeting its benefits and ranting about how disgustingly thick the 2015 rMB is...

Well best get over it and move on, berating for the sake of is simply dull. rMB works well within it`s design criteria, works well for me, works well for many others. Need more ports, more computational power Apple has other solutions for you.

Don't like it vote with your $$$$ it`s that simple, as that`s pretty much all Apple listens too. Apple could easily have produced MBA with Retina, they didn't, nor is it likely to happen, deal with it. The Air will probably remain as the base entry level Mac, same as the cMBP the Air will likely left as is. rMB same as the Air will evolve, Skylake will push the performance envelope and bring additional functionality, and the cycle continues. I will upgrade my Gen-1, as making my living off my Mac`s it`s simple math, my own rMB has paid for itself already.

If your so "pissed off" about it all, send Apple a mail nothing you say here will change anything, barring entertaining yourself & others...


Q-6
 
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Actually my main gripe is not CPU performance, its lack of ports. For me, its not like losing stuff like floppy drives, DVDs, modems (as I was had done away with this stuff years before they were removed) and use the ports everyday. Lack of ports is what most irritates me about the iPad and that's what the rMB seems like to me - an iPad with a keyboard and running OS X.

I would bet that the second gen will include at least one more port (probably on the other side), and if they do that, it's as good as Apple admitting they made a mistake on the first gen. (and I don't buy first gen as a rule anyways).

I rant because I really wanted this to be a machine for me, and in its current state, its not.

Two USB C port`s makes for a lot of sense from a "usability" perspective, I would prefer this layout. Will Apple respond? it`s possible, equally it they do it will be under the guise of bring TB-3. I have heard some whispers that Skylake was the desired rMB platform for this very reason. Apple pushed out the rMB on Broadwell to build momentum, as the competition in this "space" is stepping up, offering significant diversification being a "fresh" avenue. Rumours as ever ;)

Q-6
 
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Yeah I'm ok with the keyboard. Not in love with it but it works. The arrow keys are annoying though.

I'm just so torn. Now the MBP will feel like a boat anchor compared to the rMB. I just hate how slow everything is. Lol. I spent $1600 and got a much slower computer. I guess my expectations were just off.

That's a very expensive mistake.
 
Yes, but SSDs are HiDPI screens are absolute game-changers. I knew as soon as I used these technologies that I would not happily live without them. The same can't be said for the new form factor, especially when I consider all the flexibility I am giving up by losing ports.



Actually my main gripe is not CPU performance, its lack of ports. For me, its not like losing stuff like floppy drives, DVDs, modems (as I was had done away with this stuff years before they were removed) and use the ports everyday. Lack of ports is what most irritates me about the iPad and that's what the rMB seems like to me - an iPad with a keyboard and running OS X.

I would bet that the second gen will include at least one more port (probably on the other side), and if they do that, it's as good as Apple admitting they made a mistake on the first gen. (and I don't buy first gen as a rule anyways).

I rant because I really wanted this to be a machine for me, and in its current state, its not.
I am willing to bet that the only way it will gain a second port is if they put 1 TB3 enabled USB-C port and one regular USB-C. But on the 12" rMB there is probably only a 5% chance at best that it will gain a port. With the now locked in design constraints of the logic board size and placement, Apple will most likely only want to put one on board controller and it will in that case obviously be a combined TB3/USB-C.

There is likely a much higher chance of Apple releasing a 14" rMB with two TB3/USB-C ports next year than of the 12" getting another one.

Also, again with the "iPad with a Keyboard and OS X" - :confused: The only thing even remotely in common is the number of ports, which also seems to be the sole basis for that very narrow visioned comment.

I also had reservations about the one port - but as I already posted, in the end, I have the same number of adapters that I have always had with the 11" MBA, and actually more simultaneous wired ports available to me when using them. The one port thing disappeared for me after looking around for 5 minutes online to see how I would handle it. Yes it required buying new adapters, but hey, that was probably the solitary "compromise" I had to make adopting this excellent machine.
 
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That's a very expensive mistake.

LOL, yeah. I may just keep it. I don't know. This weekend I went into the Apple Store and was playing with a rMBP and its... well... HUGE compared to the rMB, LOL. I may just suck it up and deal with the rMB I have for 6-8 months until the next gen\spec bump comes out.
 
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