This is really not so. VM swap files rarely take up more than 2GB, and when they start getting that big, you're going to notice the performance hit anyway.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
1 year later, my Mac is slow..
- Thread starter Rmpl
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
This is really not so. VM swap files rarely take up more than 2GB, and when they start getting that big, you're going to notice the performance hit anyway.
NO Programmer will ask you to conserve 10G for 1, 2, 3, ..20 programs even when they open all at the same time.
Disk space only should become a problem with you have <1G free space. relative proportion is a bad way to determine it.
It's something to do with the whole auto-defrag thing in OS X I think.
Either way, I noticed a slowdown when I had 10 gb of free space, and now that I'm on 46 gb (bigger HDD), it's significantly faster. Maybe it should be measured in terms of % instead of just straight GB.
Either way, I noticed a slowdown when I had 10 gb of free space, and now that I'm on 46 gb (bigger HDD), it's significantly faster. Maybe it should be measured in terms of % instead of just straight GB.
There is one thing that is usually forgotten, especially about a year ago when people compared benchmarks of 100GB 7200RPM drives and 250GB 5400RPM drives for laptops: Your hard drive rotates at constant speed, but it fits more data on a track on the outer tracks than the inner tracks, because there is much more space. Reading data from the outer tracks of a drive is more than twice as fast than reading data from the inner tracks.
Because the outer tracks are so much faster, the operating system starts filling the disk with the outer tracks first. As your hard disk usage increases, you use more and more of the inner, slower tracks. And the data that you use will be the data that you added most recently, so just that can make your hard drive run at half speed.
That is also a good reason to have a drive larger than you actually need, because when you fill 150 GB of a 250 GB drive, the drive is running a lot faster than when you fill 150 GB of a 160 GB drive.
This is not the case. The position where the read/write head of the hard drive is at on the platter will always have the same speed (Called Constant Linear Velocity). As the read/write head moves closer to the centre of the platter, or further away, the speed that the platter is rotating at is adjusted to ensure a constant data rate irrespective of the position of the head. This is not what is slowing the OP's computer down.
The only solution I can think of for the OP is make sure your battery is in place.
Dude, no. Do you work for Best Buy or something? I feel like I'm talking to a wall. I don't need/want increased performance! I know my machine is capable of the performance I want, so why would I spend even $2? Also, don't you think it's a bit presumptuous to assume that $120 is a trivial amount of money for me?
I don't notice much difference after restarting. When I first got the machine programs almost never crashed. Now it seems like they crash somewhat regularly. Firefox crashes, iTunes crashes, Finder crashes. Not with windows-like regularity but it's not the near-perfect mac experience I had come to know from the first months with my machine. I do see the beachball (the waiting cursor?) more often too. Finder or Firefox will hang and I have to wait maybe 30 seconds or a minute for it to fix itself. I'm having flashbacks to my windows days.
I didn't say it was trivial, I said it would be worth your money.
But hey, to each his own.
OFFTOPIC:
ONTOPIC:
Seriousely, what's wrong with a reinstall? I had the same problems and it solved them. Your hard drive will be no longer fragmented, the OS installation will be clean and you will be able to see if it was really just a software problem or something else is wrong (if things don't work out on a clean install).
I don't know where you get your prices, but last time I checked Newegg, 2x1GB laptop DDR2 667 memory cost 36 USD.
ONTOPIC:
Seriousely, what's wrong with a reinstall? I had the same problems and it solved them. Your hard drive will be no longer fragmented, the OS installation will be clean and you will be able to see if it was really just a software problem or something else is wrong (if things don't work out on a clean install).
I don't notice much difference after restarting. When I first got the machine programs almost never crashed. Now it seems like they crash somewhat regularly. Firefox crashes, iTunes crashes, Finder crashes. Not with windows-like regularity but it's not the near-perfect mac experience I had come to know from the first months with my machine. I do see the beachball (the waiting cursor?) more often too. Finder or Firefox will hang and I have to wait maybe 30 seconds or a minute for it to fix itself. I'm having flashbacks to my windows days.
Well now that you have tried all the suggestions in this thread, how is it?
Detailed Instructions
Detailed info on what you should do, let me know if you have any questions:
10gb free is one of your problems.
Unlike Windows, you do not have to reinstall the OS (unless YOU or someone else have messed up the OS). You need to make more room. Few ways to make room:
Delete files. Takes time. Free.
Burn your files. Your computer has a burner:
- CD 50 pack can be bought $10, That is 30GB of storage space.
- If you have a DVD burner, DVD-R Media 100-Pack are available for about $25 shipped. That is over 400GB of storage space.
External harddrive 320GB is about $75.
This won't make HD room, but WILL help:
Spending $40 on one 2gb RAM chip will help. That is ONE DAY of work at minimum wage.
Looks like YOU (or someone else who used your computer) SCREWED UP YOUR COMPUTER. Apps should not crash with any regularity on the Mac. Believe me, if you or someone else did the same thing on a windows machine, you will need to reinstall windows two or three times already. However, here are a few things you can try:
REPAIR PERMISSIONS: Go to Applications/Disk Utility
Once in Disk Utility, click on the harddrive icon on the left pane, and click Repair Permissions. (You can do it with the step below).
VERIFY / REPAIR DISK:
Take out the gray disk that comes with your computer. Restart your computer while holding on to the "Option" key. Select the CD and hit enter. Go through a few screens until the menu bar on top of the screen appear. Look for Disk Utility under one of the menus. Open Disk Utility. Click on the harddrive icon on the left pane. (Repair permissions if you haven't). Click Repair Disk.
MAKE ROOM
described above.
TRY WITH A NEW USER ACCOUNT
Once you have 15GB of space, create a New User, and see if running apps within that user would crash. If it doesn't then it's only your old user account is messed up. If it still does after doing all the above steps, then I would reinstall the OS. (If you are at this point on a windows machine you would have to have reinstalled the windows two or three times already).
BACKUP DATA & REINSTALL
And if absolutely necessary (apps still crashing when you are runing as the new user), reinstalling OSX is extremely easy, no need to babysit the install (Windows require you to click a few things, wait, click more things, then wait, repeat. Tremendous waste of time to babysit Windows installs). Installing OSX does not need any babysitting; once you click a few things to get the install started, you can take a walk, go somewhere, and when you come back, Mac OS X will be ready for you. If you choose to do this, you need to backup all your files first. In YOUR situation, I would erase the harddrive and do a clean install.
Detailed info on what you should do, let me know if you have any questions:
10gb free is one of your problems.
Unlike Windows, you do not have to reinstall the OS (unless YOU or someone else have messed up the OS). You need to make more room. Few ways to make room:
Delete files. Takes time. Free.
Burn your files. Your computer has a burner:
- CD 50 pack can be bought $10, That is 30GB of storage space.
- If you have a DVD burner, DVD-R Media 100-Pack are available for about $25 shipped. That is over 400GB of storage space.
External harddrive 320GB is about $75.
This won't make HD room, but WILL help:
Spending $40 on one 2gb RAM chip will help. That is ONE DAY of work at minimum wage.
Looks like YOU (or someone else who used your computer) SCREWED UP YOUR COMPUTER. Apps should not crash with any regularity on the Mac. Believe me, if you or someone else did the same thing on a windows machine, you will need to reinstall windows two or three times already. However, here are a few things you can try:
REPAIR PERMISSIONS: Go to Applications/Disk Utility
Once in Disk Utility, click on the harddrive icon on the left pane, and click Repair Permissions. (You can do it with the step below).
VERIFY / REPAIR DISK:
Take out the gray disk that comes with your computer. Restart your computer while holding on to the "Option" key. Select the CD and hit enter. Go through a few screens until the menu bar on top of the screen appear. Look for Disk Utility under one of the menus. Open Disk Utility. Click on the harddrive icon on the left pane. (Repair permissions if you haven't). Click Repair Disk.
MAKE ROOM
described above.
TRY WITH A NEW USER ACCOUNT
Once you have 15GB of space, create a New User, and see if running apps within that user would crash. If it doesn't then it's only your old user account is messed up. If it still does after doing all the above steps, then I would reinstall the OS. (If you are at this point on a windows machine you would have to have reinstalled the windows two or three times already).
BACKUP DATA & REINSTALL
And if absolutely necessary (apps still crashing when you are runing as the new user), reinstalling OSX is extremely easy, no need to babysit the install (Windows require you to click a few things, wait, click more things, then wait, repeat. Tremendous waste of time to babysit Windows installs). Installing OSX does not need any babysitting; once you click a few things to get the install started, you can take a walk, go somewhere, and when you come back, Mac OS X will be ready for you. If you choose to do this, you need to backup all your files first. In YOUR situation, I would erase the harddrive and do a clean install.
Are you kidding? He hasn't tried any of the suggestions in this thread. He refuses to add more RAM or reinstall his operating system. He won't consider a larger hard drive. He simply wants things to work without putting any effort toward maintenance or improvement. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. What else is there to do for someone unwilling to make any changes?
Yes, that would be the case, about OVER FIVE YEARS AGO (if not over 7 years ago). Why don't you try to run your windows box with 1Gb of free space? Actually, I will give you ten dollars to use ONLY a vista machine with 1Gb of free space for a month.
You do know netscape is going to be dropped like an unwanted child in a few months?
I sorta got that, my remark (although not evident) was a little sarcastic.
Ah, gotcha :^)
There is no reason to add more RAM or free up HD space to exceed 10GB.
As mentioned, the system ran faster with the same RAM earlier, and 10GB free is more than enough for it to not be sluggish due to swapping.
Would more RAM speed things up? Yes - if insufficient RAM is the problem. We've yet to determine that.
Would >10GB disk free speed things up? I doubt it. At least not measurably.
I agree with other posters that repairing permissions, removing any installed hacks, and checking to see what runs at startup should work wonders.
And an Archive & Install should easily fit within the 10GB free, and the old System folder could be immediately deleted. A&I isn't usually required, but it's often faster than removing some 3rd party items, especially if you're not sure what all you've added.
As mentioned, the system ran faster with the same RAM earlier, and 10GB free is more than enough for it to not be sluggish due to swapping.
Would more RAM speed things up? Yes - if insufficient RAM is the problem. We've yet to determine that.
Would >10GB disk free speed things up? I doubt it. At least not measurably.
I agree with other posters that repairing permissions, removing any installed hacks, and checking to see what runs at startup should work wonders.
And an Archive & Install should easily fit within the 10GB free, and the old System folder could be immediately deleted. A&I isn't usually required, but it's often faster than removing some 3rd party items, especially if you're not sure what all you've added.
As mentioned, neither should be needed if the system was originally faster and the OP isn't doing more with it. Of course, if his RAM needs have increased, he needs more RAM. But that's unclear. He has enough remaining disk space.
I think he wants things to work without spending more money. That's reasonable.
This is the point in the PC version of this thread on some other forum where a user will say "Get A Mac. It Just Works."
The truth is that OS X's auto-defrag doesn't work as throughly as they would have you believe. Memory management is not as air-tight and elegant as they would have you believe. Preference files can and often will mysteriously wreak havok on an otherwise healthy system just like a dirty registry. Over time, any Mac will slow down, just like (albeit at a considerably slower pace, usually) any Windows machine. We all perceive this slow-down as "wow, those new computers I saw at the Apple store are so much faster than my old Mac I'm using now," but that is only part of the truth. Anyone who has done a complete wipe of an old powerbook and then reinstalled everything right back the way it was knows what I'm talking about. To use a site catch-phrase, it feels 'snappier' all of the sudden.
Depending on the ineptitude of the user, the difference after such a cleansing can be dramatic. Don't get me wrong, a very meticulous user can keep everything clean and running smoothly in OS X if they have good maintenance habits and know how to delete things.
My main G5 has only been erased and reinstalled one time other than 10.x related erase-and-installs. that was in 4 years of heavy use. But my boss's laptop got erased and reinstalled 4 times in the same time...and that was 2 different laptops. The two office Mini's also got wiped due to "strangeness" and "slowness" than Onyx and the usual sorts of tools could not fix.
Keeping >10 GB free
More than 10GB is definitely required for a number of users..
Here is my set up. MBP Santa Rosa with 2GB of ram.
Eudora PPC running under Rosetta. close to 20,000 emails + few other apps running.
This is WITHOUT running iTunes (>200gb of music on external drive), photoshop, VMWare, etc.
Currently showing in Activity Monitor: System Memory, VM size = 13.37 GB.
(Yes, I am going to swap a 4GB set of RAM in this week...)
So someone with only 1GB of physical memory can conceivable need more than 10 GB of disk space easily.
Why don't you look at how big your VM size is?
Of course, OS X is not perfect. It cannot think for you.
HOWEVER, Compared to Windows, OS X does behave much better and requires FEWER reinstall for the same type of usage. OS X is much closer to perfection as Windows will ever be.
NO MATTER WHAT YOU OWN, for example, the "best" car on the market (different depending on your needs, but say if you have a Ferrari, Bently, and a Rolls Royce), without proper maintenance, it will not stay new and in perfect running condition for long.
More than 10GB is definitely required for a number of users..
Here is my set up. MBP Santa Rosa with 2GB of ram.
Eudora PPC running under Rosetta. close to 20,000 emails + few other apps running.
This is WITHOUT running iTunes (>200gb of music on external drive), photoshop, VMWare, etc.
Currently showing in Activity Monitor: System Memory, VM size = 13.37 GB.
(Yes, I am going to swap a 4GB set of RAM in this week...)
So someone with only 1GB of physical memory can conceivable need more than 10 GB of disk space easily.
Why don't you look at how big your VM size is?
Of course, OS X is not perfect. It cannot think for you.
HOWEVER, Compared to Windows, OS X does behave much better and requires FEWER reinstall for the same type of usage. OS X is much closer to perfection as Windows will ever be.
NO MATTER WHAT YOU OWN, for example, the "best" car on the market (different depending on your needs, but say if you have a Ferrari, Bently, and a Rolls Royce), without proper maintenance, it will not stay new and in perfect running condition for long.
That's a bit misleading - the system sucks up what VM it can based on available resources:
I'm only running a few apps, freshly opened, so I doubt I need the 42GB of swap.
This is all true. At times, a clean slate is needed... but my point is that there are some simpler steps to take first.
Consultant said:
The idea, though, that you need that drive space free all the time simply isn't true. The OS snatches the 14 gigs of drivespace from the time the computer is booted; by the time you use iStatPro or what have you to check your free space, the amount allocated for virtual memory has already been taken hostage :^)
I'm currently using my MB with 200mb of free space. My virtual memory is 14.71gb. If I reboot, I'll recover some space, but not all 15gb, as that's permanently kept by the paging file. I'm not recommending running a computer with 200mb of free space, but my point is that it isn't nearly an impossible feat. My computer doesn't feel a fraction slower than it did when I had dozens of gigs free; the only reason I'm deleting stuff is to make room for more stuff.
JSW, thank you for being a voice of reason. I won't reiterate all of your good advice, only remind everyone that it's easy to spend other people's money. We should resist that temptation when giving advice, especially when it seems unlikely to cure a specific issue -- which in this case is a change in Mac performance. Unless you're prepared to argue that RAM shrinks over time, like a wool sweater in a washing machine.
At this point, I'd also be tempted to check Activity Monitor. That, BTW, is free.
At this point, I'd also be tempted to check Activity Monitor. That, BTW, is free.
Why don't you benchmark your app launching, saving, processing speed now, and then make 10gb of space, and benchmark, and make another 10gb of free space and benchmark.
The reason you do not notice a difference, is because you SLOWLY fill up the drive, thus apps progressively run slower. And if you do not have very good long term memory, then it would appear to you that your apps are running at the same speed as brand new.
I've been saying that OS X is better than windows. It will run fine in most situations,
even in cases of low free disk space.
However, if you want it running at optimal speed, you ONLY need to keep a few simple concepts in mind.
The reason you do not notice a difference, is because you SLOWLY fill up the drive, thus apps progressively run slower. And if you do not have very good long term memory, then it would appear to you that your apps are running at the same speed as brand new.
I've been saying that OS X is better than windows. It will run fine in most situations,
even in cases of low free disk space.
However, if you want it running at optimal speed, you ONLY need to keep a few simple concepts in mind.
Haha, maybe later. I do know that I've had this computer for less than a month, and I went from 50gb of free space to 5gb in approximately 5 days, deliberately. I'd definitely have noticed a slowdown over such a short span of time, and I haven't. Firefox, iTunes, etc. behave normally, whether I'm at 200mb (as I was a few minutes ago) or 2gb (as I currently am) or 20gb (as I was last week). I truly don't notice a difference. I don't think the "must have X amount of space free or else" rule applies to computers these days, once the OS has been allowed to take its alloted amount of virtual memory space.
Sorry, I don't agree with this either. I've also run XP extensively on low amounts of hard drive space, and never experienced any slowdowns. Windows didn't run any worse than OS X currently does on low disk space. Perhaps you find OS X better than Windows, but I don't. Both perform equally well in these scenarios in my experience. If you're experiencing traumatic slowdowns on either OS, it's usually a symptom of a hardware issue, or bad managing of your installation. Your programs should open well regardless of how much space you have or which OS you run, providing the paging file is already present and working.