What about a Psystar system ! When is their updater coming
Today Psystar posted an installation script on their website that downloads the 10.5.3 update and massages it correctly for their systems.
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10.5.3 Is Out!
- Thread starter mediapirate
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Today Psystar posted an installation script on their website that downloads the 10.5.3 update and massages it correctly for their systems.
I'd like to update a previous post I made on 10.5.3 and Quicksilver Macs...
I've been testing quite extensively Leopard on my 867MHz Quicksilver Mac, technically the earliest supported Powermac G4 and I think the verdict is in...
DON'T BOTHER.
After the initial installation of Leopard and 10.5.3 and the hours of indexing, I basically waited until the next day to really see how Leopard works in a daily grind situation and the news is not so good. On a Mac that is supposedly supported by 10.5.3 and had no issues with 10.4.11, I've had way too many kernel panics and system crashes, probably dozens, in just 2-3 days forcing regular reboots. And this doesn't include the normal list of program incompatibilities, which most notably for me, involves the fact that 10.5.3 once again breaks the AOL client software making it difficult to check AOL Mail other than through webmail. While this might not be a big issue for most people, it is more an issue for legacy PowerPC users like say, my elderly parents, who rely on AOL to this day as do many legacy Mac owners. This kind of situation, IMHO, is really unacceptable and Apple needs to fix this or work with software developers better to avoid this in the future. Doing an update and then not being able to check your email is just utterly UNACCEPTABLE! And believe me, if Steve Jobs were getting the angry phone messages I'm getting from my mother, possibly he'd truly understand!
This entire Quicksilver Leopard situation to me is just completely unacceptable overall and since the Mac previously worked pretty reliably before Leopard, it's hard for me to believe that Leopard is not the problem. And yes, I still have a Tiger partition on the QS, so I can easily boot back into Tiger and not have issues. That puts the blame squarely on Leopard and this is technically supposed to be a fully supported Mac!
With the issues I've had previously with Leopard on other PowerPC Macs (even my G5), I wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being a class action lawsuit against Apple over PowerPC support. Not that I support such actions as that will probably result in millions of dollars for lawyers and $8.75 for victims who, like me, paid $129 for Leopard, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.
I'm sure Steve Jobs would love to put on a PowerPC in a coffin show at WWDC this year, but the fact is Apple made a promise to PowerPC customers with Leopard, some of whom paid a small fortune for ridiculously over-priced & expensive Powermac G5 towers and then the $129 for Leopard. Apple needs to fix these PowerPC stability problems ASAP! Otherwise, those "I'm a Mac" commercials that ridicule VISTA might come back to haunt them!
[Disclaimer: I've never actually used VISTA, only XP and grudgingly]
I've been testing quite extensively Leopard on my 867MHz Quicksilver Mac, technically the earliest supported Powermac G4 and I think the verdict is in...
DON'T BOTHER.
After the initial installation of Leopard and 10.5.3 and the hours of indexing, I basically waited until the next day to really see how Leopard works in a daily grind situation and the news is not so good. On a Mac that is supposedly supported by 10.5.3 and had no issues with 10.4.11, I've had way too many kernel panics and system crashes, probably dozens, in just 2-3 days forcing regular reboots. And this doesn't include the normal list of program incompatibilities, which most notably for me, involves the fact that 10.5.3 once again breaks the AOL client software making it difficult to check AOL Mail other than through webmail. While this might not be a big issue for most people, it is more an issue for legacy PowerPC users like say, my elderly parents, who rely on AOL to this day as do many legacy Mac owners. This kind of situation, IMHO, is really unacceptable and Apple needs to fix this or work with software developers better to avoid this in the future. Doing an update and then not being able to check your email is just utterly UNACCEPTABLE! And believe me, if Steve Jobs were getting the angry phone messages I'm getting from my mother, possibly he'd truly understand!
This entire Quicksilver Leopard situation to me is just completely unacceptable overall and since the Mac previously worked pretty reliably before Leopard, it's hard for me to believe that Leopard is not the problem. And yes, I still have a Tiger partition on the QS, so I can easily boot back into Tiger and not have issues. That puts the blame squarely on Leopard and this is technically supposed to be a fully supported Mac!
With the issues I've had previously with Leopard on other PowerPC Macs (even my G5), I wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being a class action lawsuit against Apple over PowerPC support. Not that I support such actions as that will probably result in millions of dollars for lawyers and $8.75 for victims who, like me, paid $129 for Leopard, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.
I'm sure Steve Jobs would love to put on a PowerPC in a coffin show at WWDC this year, but the fact is Apple made a promise to PowerPC customers with Leopard, some of whom paid a small fortune for ridiculously over-priced & expensive Powermac G5 towers and then the $129 for Leopard. Apple needs to fix these PowerPC stability problems ASAP! Otherwise, those "I'm a Mac" commercials that ridicule VISTA might come back to haunt them!
[Disclaimer: I've never actually used VISTA, only XP and grudgingly]
Honestly, I don't think I would even bother installing Leopard on anything slower than a 1.5GHz machine.
10.5.3 was totally worth (for me at least), it fixed my airport (I couldn't connect to my d-link router). Now it's all good
I hope nothing got broken...
Which D-Link router are you using?
DIR-635
--
what's your problem with the wifi?
(I couldn't connect at all!, I have an usb wifi as well, and with that I could connect to my wifi, so it wasn't a matter of not having wifi, it was a matter of the MBP not behing able to use it...).
also, the MBP pre-10.5.3 update, wouldn't show my network as behing wpa2 (it shown wpa only, and maybe it doesn't matter, but the truth is that now it shows it as behing wpa2 and it works as expected).
My experience is exactly the opposite. I'm running Leopard on my Power Mac G4 Sawtooth, which has a Sonnet 1.0 GHz CPU upgrade. I have not had one major problem, and not a single panic or crash, with either 10.5.1, 10.5.2, or now 10.5.3. It has been absolutely fine for me, with approximately the same performance as Tiger. My only major complaint is that Apple abandoned Classic mode. That's a difficulty because I have a large number of documents from legacy apps, and sometimes that requires rebooting Tiger.
I have heard that Leopard is a memory hog and it's best to have at least 1 GB. My G4 system has 1.3 GB and, as I said, no problems so far.
I can't comment on AOL because I would never use any piece of crud software from that company.
Actually... Leopard's memory management is excellent compared to Tiger. I was always getting page-outs but, I hardly get them anymore... thanks to Leopard. I don't know what you're talking about with the memory hog thing. Maybe it's a PPC thing but my Intel Mac is running smoothly.
Runs fine for me on a 1GHz powerbook 12" with 512MB RAM and upgraded 7200 rpm drive.
I always get kicked out of my network since 10.5.0 when downloading files with a speed faster than ~100kbs, while watching videos on youtube, when moving files over the network, running a torrent client and so on.
From time to time it reconnect itselfs and get kicked again a few seconds later.. again and again, sometimes it stays disconnected.
I've tried everything.. reinstalling leopard, updating the router firmware, changed all kind of router settings, tried out all workaround methodes.. and nothing worked so far
The ironie is that the wlan is solid under tiger and windows for me. (MBP 15" late 2007) Dunno what else to do.Definitely to each his own on navigation. Whenever I see a folder in Icon view (Mac or Windows) I just see a bunch of squares that make no sense to me. There is so much white space between items, I just get lost. So the white space you like keeps me from being able to focus. When I get a list again all is well in the world. : )
Clearly, there is good reason to offer the variety of views as each user will likely be able to find something that works best for him/her.
I think that what frustrates me the most about icon view is that I can't quickly go from seeing what's inside one folder to another folder without changing my top level location. With List View or Column View, one can navigate to seeing inside of different folders without changing the top level or having to open new windows.
It might be different if I had to look for files, but I know where all the files on my hard drive are, so I don't have to hunt for stuff, just dig into gobs and gobs of folder levels (I'm a bit anal in sorting files). When I'm navigating Finder windows, I'm not looking for files, I'm navigating to the file I want and already know where it is. In fact, I have mostly folders and not many items in each folder, so being able to quickly find and open the next folder is important.
I'm not sure I understand the point about looking for a quicktime or picture file. The file extensions are right there, so I just look at the right edge of the column for the extensions. And the icons are still there, just small. (I suppose not all might have "Show all file extensions" turned on). I will admit, there are things about Windows that I like. It ain't sexy, but often, it gets the job done. Sometimes I wish Apple would understand that. I don't care if it's sexy, I just want to git 'er done quickly.
I've never used Cover Flow view or Quick Look, since column view allows for a file preview in the right-most column. Again, mostly what I need is an efficient way to navigate since I don't need to find things. I just want to get there fast.
Everyone's different and thankfully, most of us can find something that works for "me".
Clearly, there is good reason to offer the variety of views as each user will likely be able to find something that works best for him/her.
I think that what frustrates me the most about icon view is that I can't quickly go from seeing what's inside one folder to another folder without changing my top level location. With List View or Column View, one can navigate to seeing inside of different folders without changing the top level or having to open new windows.
It might be different if I had to look for files, but I know where all the files on my hard drive are, so I don't have to hunt for stuff, just dig into gobs and gobs of folder levels (I'm a bit anal in sorting files). When I'm navigating Finder windows, I'm not looking for files, I'm navigating to the file I want and already know where it is. In fact, I have mostly folders and not many items in each folder, so being able to quickly find and open the next folder is important.
I'm not sure I understand the point about looking for a quicktime or picture file. The file extensions are right there, so I just look at the right edge of the column for the extensions. And the icons are still there, just small. (I suppose not all might have "Show all file extensions" turned on). I will admit, there are things about Windows that I like. It ain't sexy, but often, it gets the job done. Sometimes I wish Apple would understand that. I don't care if it's sexy, I just want to git 'er done quickly.
I've never used Cover Flow view or Quick Look, since column view allows for a file preview in the right-most column. Again, mostly what I need is an efficient way to navigate since I don't need to find things. I just want to get there fast.
Everyone's different and thankfully, most of us can find something that works for "me".
I don't know - I can't speak from experience, it was just something I heard back when Leopard first came out. I can't remember if more memory was supposed to avoid performance problems or system panics. Anyway, as I said I haven't had any problems myself.
I don't know any of the technical details, but I have definitely noticed differences as reported by Activity Monitor.
Tiger tends to show 'Wired' memory usage (OS usage from what I've read) at around 100MB or a little more.
Leopard on my MacBook shows over 500MB 'Wired' useage immediately after boot. That's quite a difference.
I, too, notice minimal page outs, but that's also why I have 4GB of RAM, to prevent the page out need.
The increase in 'Wired' usage doesn't mean Leopard doesn't manage memory better, but it is a significant difference.
Any other thoughts on this?
Tiger tends to show 'Wired' memory usage (OS usage from what I've read) at around 100MB or a little more.
Leopard on my MacBook shows over 500MB 'Wired' useage immediately after boot. That's quite a difference.
I, too, notice minimal page outs, but that's also why I have 4GB of RAM, to prevent the page out need.
The increase in 'Wired' usage doesn't mean Leopard doesn't manage memory better, but it is a significant difference.
Any other thoughts on this?
No Disrespect, but that is just another example of 3rd party software bringin' down the "Good OS X Name"
10.5.3 fixed DVD Player on my PowerBook!
Very exciting! Such a simple thing (that Leopard broke originally) and now .3 has restored it. My venerable and hard-working 12" PowerBook (1.5 GHz, 1.25 GB RAM) is running like it hasn't since 10.4.11. If I'd been able to find my original disks, I'd have gone back to Tiger already... but now I may not have to. Apps launch almost instantly, wireless is strong, no goofy issues so far. While I'm still fairly convinced Leopard killed my laptop's battery (went from 3.5 hours with safe-sleep to less than an hour with no safe-sleep over the course of the "upgrade"... sheesh) I'm considering getting a replacement battery instead of getting a new laptop.
Very exciting! Such a simple thing (that Leopard broke originally) and now .3 has restored it. My venerable and hard-working 12" PowerBook (1.5 GHz, 1.25 GB RAM) is running like it hasn't since 10.4.11. If I'd been able to find my original disks, I'd have gone back to Tiger already... but now I may not have to. Apps launch almost instantly, wireless is strong, no goofy issues so far. While I'm still fairly convinced Leopard killed my laptop's battery (went from 3.5 hours with safe-sleep to less than an hour with no safe-sleep over the course of the "upgrade"... sheesh) I'm considering getting a replacement battery instead of getting a new laptop.
I would guess it's legally required; since you are paying for the Leopard license, that probably includes a hard copy. But Psystar says that they provide no installation support - they preinstall it on the hard drive and that's it.
Wifi much better
I am really surprised how much better the wifi performance on my MBP is after this update. At least according to AP grapher. I stay connected at 130 mbps constantly now on 802.11n 2.4GHz. Before the update I got 54-70 at the same position. Also reported received signal strength is up about 5-10 dB. How can this be accomplished with a SW patch? Now the signals from my Airport extreme and Airport Express routers look better than the signal from my Netgear router. They used to be worse.
Anyone else noticing Wifi improvements?
Copying the update between machines?
I updated my MBP, but not my MB yet. Is there a way to simple copy the update from the MBP to the MB so I don't have to download it all over again and burn up 420 MB of my monthly bandwidth allotment?
I am really surprised how much better the wifi performance on my MBP is after this update. At least according to AP grapher. I stay connected at 130 mbps constantly now on 802.11n 2.4GHz. Before the update I got 54-70 at the same position. Also reported received signal strength is up about 5-10 dB. How can this be accomplished with a SW patch? Now the signals from my Airport extreme and Airport Express routers look better than the signal from my Netgear router. They used to be worse.
Anyone else noticing Wifi improvements?
Copying the update between machines?
I updated my MBP, but not my MB yet. Is there a way to simple copy the update from the MBP to the MB so I don't have to download it all over again and burn up 420 MB of my monthly bandwidth allotment?
besides from finally getting my airport to work with my wireless router, I too am getting 130Mb/s, which is very good indeed!
About the updater, unless your MB has the same "needs" as your MBP (which may vary depending on what you had installed), I would assume it's not a good idea to run the same updater... (that's one of the reasons I downloaded the combo; 530MB, it hurts, but does pay in the future, especially if you plan to update other macs - like I am).
About the updater, unless your MB has the same "needs" as your MBP (which may vary depending on what you had installed), I would assume it's not a good idea to run the same updater... (that's one of the reasons I downloaded the combo; 530MB, it hurts, but does pay in the future, especially if you plan to update other macs - like I am).
Why the fuss about psystar?
Why the fuss about whether or not psystar clones can handle updates when probably a full third of Apple owners have problems installing these more ponderous and oftentimes disastrous updates?
Really, I'd worry more about whether or not a mac user can install an update without a disaster.
Why the fuss about whether or not psystar clones can handle updates when probably a full third of Apple owners have problems installing these more ponderous and oftentimes disastrous updates?
Really, I'd worry more about whether or not a mac user can install an update without a disaster.
I just installed 10.5.3 on both, my Macbook and my late 2007 iMac. Everything went smooth, problem free and enjoying
Yea, that's what I was thinking. You get the Leopard install discs, so you could always do a clean wipe/restore.
That being said, I don't promote/support hackintosh's. I am proud to give my $ to
(well, to an extent)
Well, the fuss is because a large number of people at one time claimed that Apple would immediately rig their next update so that Psystar's box would be incompatible with it, thus effectively orphaning Psystar's Leopard system (and maybe all Hackintoshes) and thus end the threat of these rogue clones.
Apparently that is not the case, just as it was not the case that Psystar was a hoax, or a credit card scam, or couldn't ship a product, or that Apple would immediately "drop a lawsuit on their ass," or any of the other conclusions people immediately jumped to.
Is that important? Maybe not, but also it could be that if Psystar can keep this going then other companies may jump in as well, and Mac OS X could spread to low-cost clones in spite of what Apple would prefer. Whether you like the idea or hate it, that would certainly change the Mac marketing universe. And that, I think, is why the fuss.
Thanks for explaining. I happen to be one of those revolutionaries that actually thinks competition is good for business, the marketplace, and the consumer, and that hardware monopolies are a bad thing. I know it goes against current fascist business models, but the times they are a-changing.
Perhaps it's a good thing that Apple isn't afraid of a little hardware competition; we might get a better product with more options and choices that actually meet the needs of more end users if companies are out there to meet those needs when Apple deigns not to.