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You're making a seriously wrong assumption, you don't have to be a new Mac user or a switcher to not "need" certain features from the older OS. FYI I may have been using Macs longer than you, I've been on the Mac OS full time since OS 8.5 and as I mentioned I don't see it as a big deal.
There were some really cool features back in the day on Mac OS 8-9 that did not make it to OS X but it hasn't hurt my productivity.

Don't take this as being only towards you but IMO the ease of use of the Macintosh has created a lot of laziness and pickiness for some computer users. For goodness sake, you can right-click on the stack folder and choose Open xx-folder into a Finder window.
Or you can open the finder and choose Documents on the side bar.
I'm not saying it was a great idea for Apple to have cut the option but I just don't see it as something to make such a major rant about, but to each his own. Honestly all these years I've been on the Macintosh I have never used this feature and I am a power user.

I appreciate your comments, but its important to note that without people like me complaining about the Leopard Dock changes and the inability to Single Click on a Folder and have it just open, Apple wouldn't have REVERSED its decisions on how the Dock operates in 10.5.2 at all most likely.
Wouldn't you agree?

But you are correct, this is not a bug fix or a situation involving world peace.

I simply want to motivate and lobby Apple both here and in the Apple Discussions forums to put this simple feature back because it's just a senseless decision and it does impact me on a daily basis. Obviously, there are many people who this does not affect, but I suspect there are more than you think. Otherwise, Apple wouldn't have made such drastic changes to the Leopard Dock in 10.5.2.

And no, you've not used Macs longer than me, but you're close. My first Apple was an Apple ][e from 1982-3. My first Mac was the original LC from, ummm, lemme think, 1986-7 maybe? So I've used the original System 7 before. I think I even dabbled a bit with an older Mac at one point in System 6 for a time. I have never purchased a Windows machine in my entire life, nor would I ever, but, like many people, I have had to use DOS and Windows in various different job situations in my life over the years.

And yes, people forget, but there are STILL some features from Mac OS 9 that are missing in Mac OS X ! It makes me laugh every time Apple comes out with a new version of Mac OS X and lists new features that are actually OLD Mac OS 9 features!

But, BEHOLD the power that is Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field! :D
 
Has anyone noticed if the update has fixed the DVD Player kernel panic problem?
 
But, BEHOLD the power that is Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field! :D

Quiet man!

The iPhone users may hear you! I know a guy that got stoned in line on day one because he couldn't understand how Apple could sell a phone that didn't have MMS.

You can't go around telling people that everything Steve says isn't a ploy. ;)

Seriously though I'd have to agree with any one that says people are getting so lazy with their computers that they want to nit pick every missing gimmicky feature. There is a thread that's entitled, "Things you hate about Mac OS X" and the whiners that are there are unbelievable. Most of their complaints stem from user error, but there are some that are legit.

Personally, I am more pissed off with the hardware, but there are things that I would love changed in the OS. Like how about not having to restart my computer twice after an update because the thing just wants to go crazy.
 
And yes, people forget, but there are STILL some features from Mac OS 9 that are missing in Mac OS X !

Like, what?

As someone who is of the opinion that Apple's OS was junk until 10.4 (upon which I finally bought a Mac), I'd like to know :)
 
junk until 10.4....

What?!?!?

I thought I hit the band wagon late with 10.2 :eek:

I wouldn't call it junk, I know it's an opinion and all but that is just a gross over statement.

p.s. One feature that was complained about in the thread I mentioned was "Put Away" which would allow you to move a file back to it's original location if you put it in the trash or moved it. Not that I would be interested in that feature, but it got a lot of play on that particular thread.

And there is the mythical "Apple X" to cut files from the Finder.
 
This worked fine in Tiger. I've been ping-ponged back and forth between Apple saying it's a DigiDesign issue, and DigiDesign saying it's an Apple issue..... I don't ****ing care who's issue it is, both of them are supposed to be working together to resolve such things!
Yeah it's pathetic. I've been working with audio on the Windows platform since 1992 and I've lost count of the people who have insisted over the years that Mac is the *only* choice for audio and music production, and I'm crazy for using that creepy other platform that's only for spreadsheets.

Well, admittedly Windows was a crap platform for audio up until Win2K, but starting with 2K and all the way through XP and Vista it's been a solid DAW platform and the only downtime I've experienced waiting for OS-related issues to be resolved was during the XP->Vista transition when things got a little dodgy, but after a couple of months it was workable again and I've been using Vista since.

Meanwhile, during that same time (year 2000 to present day) the Mac audio ppl have had a lot of problems. First there was the transition from OS9 to OS X, Cheetah and Puma were jokes and it wasn't until Jaguar in 2002 that stuff like Cubase, Reason etc would run properly on OS X... and just when things were starting to settle, Apple went ahead and introduced Audio Units, causing even more delays. Subsequently it seems there's always something that breaks with every update. If it's not your MIDI controller driver it's your audio device driver, or your DAW software, or its third party plugins...

When I got a Mac a while ago I borrowed Logic 8 from work to check it out. Installed it and loaded up some included demo songs to get a feel for it (hadn't tried Logic since the days it was an Emagic product). After 4 crashes in less than 15 minutes I just shrugged and uninstalled it, hoping Cubase would fare better. Yeah, it kinda did, so the next step was to install drivers for my Yamaha 01X firewire device. Uh... not, because there were no working Tiger drivers yet (this was in the fall of 2007!). Gave up on that too. Then Leopard came along in October and I installed it (breaking Cubase of course, had to wait till Feb 2008 for a Leopard-compatible update). Meanwhile I tried to get Yamaha drivers again. Yep, now there were Tiger drivers were finally available... but incompatible with Leopard. Next update scheduled for Jan 2008. When I finally had everything (Mac running Leopard, Leopard-compatible Cubase, Leopard compatible 01X drivers) after 6 months of waiting, I sat down with baited breath and installed everything, rebooted and.... hmm, is the screen supposed to be blue for that long? Waited 1 minute... 2 minutes... 5 minutes... 10 minutes... still a blank blue screen on startup. Really loving this "one and only platform for audio".

Went back to Windows and business as usual. I use the Mac for graphics only now.

I agree with you that getting ProTools to work properly is a joint responsibility for Apple and Digi. And they should solve it before OS updates, not let the update break stuff first in order to assess the scope of the damage because by the time Digi has a fix ready, Apple has already released the new 10 point blah point bleh which breaks other stuff.

What?!?!?

I thought I hit the band wagon late with 10.2 :eek:

I wouldn't call it junk, I know it's an opinion and all but that is just a gross over statement.
10.0 was little more than a public beta. 10.1 was better but there was still so much 3rd party software yet to be ported to X, it was a mere curiosity. By 10.2 both the OS and the software was in good shape. IMO, 10.2 is where it stopped being junk, though some might argue it happened with 10.3. But to call everything prior to 10.4 junk is a bit harsh, yes.
 
Yeah it's pathetic. I've been working with audio on the Windows platform since 1992 and I've lost count of the people who have insisted over the years that Mac is the *only* choice for audio and music production, and I'm crazy for using that creepy other platform that's only for spreadsheets.

Well, admittedly Windows was a crap platform for audio up until Win2K, but starting with 2K and all the way through XP and Vista it's been a solid DAW platform and the only downtime I've experienced waiting for OS-related issues to be resolved was during the XP->Vista transition when things got a little dodgy, but after a couple of months it was workable again and I've been using Vista since.

Meanwhile, during that same time (year 2000 to present day) the Mac audio ppl have had a lot of problems. First there was the transition from OS9 to OS X, Cheetah and Puma were jokes and it wasn't until Jaguar in 2002 that stuff like Cubase, Reason etc would run properly on OS X... and just when things were starting to settle, Apple went ahead and introduced Audio Units, causing even more delays. Subsequently it seems there's always something that breaks with every update. If it's not your MIDI controller driver it's your audio device driver, or your DAW software, or its third party plugins...

When I got a Mac a while ago I borrowed Logic 8 from work to check it out. Installed it and loaded up some included demo songs to get a feel for it (hadn't tried Logic since the days it was an Emagic product). After 4 crashes in less than 15 minutes I just shrugged and uninstalled it, hoping Cubase would fare better. Yeah, it kinda did, so the next step was to install drivers for my Yamaha 01X firewire device. Uh... not, because there were no working Tiger drivers yet (this was in the fall of 2007!). Gave up on that too. Then Leopard came along in October and I installed it (breaking Cubase of course, had to wait till Feb 2008 for a Leopard-compatible update). Meanwhile I tried to get Yamaha drivers again. Yep, now there were Tiger drivers were finally available... but incompatible with Leopard. Next update scheduled for Jan 2008. When I finally had everything (Mac running Leopard, Leopard-compatible Cubase, Leopard compatible 01X drivers) after 6 months of waiting, I sat down with baited breath and installed everything, rebooted and.... hmm, is the screen supposed to be blue for that long? Waited 1 minute... 2 minutes... 5 minutes... 10 minutes... still a blank blue screen on startup. Really loving this "one and only platform for audio".

Went back to Windows and business as usual. I use the Mac for graphics only now.

I agree with you that getting ProTools to work properly is a joint responsibility for Apple and Digi. And they should solve it before OS updates, not let the update break stuff first in order to assess the scope of the damage because by the time Digi has a fix ready, Apple has already released the new 10 point blah point bleh which breaks other stuff.


10.0 was little more than a public beta. 10.1 was better but there was still so much 3rd party software yet to be ported to X, it was a mere curiosity. By 10.2 both the OS and the software was in good shape. IMO, 10.2 is where it stopped being junk, though some might argue it happened with 10.3. But to call everything prior to 10.4 junk is a bit harsh, yes.

My friend is running his iMac G4 on 10.2.8. 700MHz, still going strong, and I don't think the OS feels outdated in anyway, but it obviously is, it feels new and polished.
 
10.0 was little more than a public beta. 10.1 was better but there was still so much 3rd party software yet to be ported to X, it was a mere curiosity. By 10.2 both the OS and the software was in good shape. IMO, 10.2 is where it stopped being junk, though some might argue it happened with 10.3. But to call everything prior to 10.4 junk is a bit harsh, yes.

Oh yes, 10.0 I hear was great for those wanting to experiment with Apple's new OS, but many A LOT in other words stayed with 9.

I agree, 10.2 is where I came in and things were running smoothly, it was a solid OS save for it's slight inconsistencies that I can't remember right now. And it was the OS that I consider to be the surpasser of Windows XP. By Panther, there was nothing that could compare the two, Mac OS X was a debatably better OS by many standards.
 
Why would you lie to everyone repeatedly?

Clearly that is NOT true.

That opens the place WHERE the folder IS. Different.

And as for my thoughts not being representative of the Mac community, once again wrong.

The only reason Apple changed the dock since 10.5 is because of public outcry from people like me.
Otherwise, you wouldn't even have the options you have now.

If ever there was a constructive criticism that just screams, DUH, this is it!
Here's another thing you can do to get the folder to open... calm down :cool:
 
Like, what?

As someone who is of the opinion that Apple's OS was junk until 10.4 (upon which I finally bought a Mac), I'd like to know :)

How about printing a directory listing? Still can't do it. You could do it in... oh, probably EVERY version before X.

Icons?! Who notices icons?! : )

I haven't used anything but column view in OS X (10.3, 10.4, and 10.5). I would still love a Windows Explorer-like interface, but columns is pretty good. Though Explorer does frustrate me that Shortcuts aren't as flexible as Aliases.

Do folks still open multiple folders and use icons like back in the OS9 days? Column View was such a godsend.

I also wish OS X could get on OS standardized method of maximizing a window. Is it really that hard? Sigh.

Off-topic.

Overall, not much noticeable difference in 10.5.3 from previous 10.5 flavors. Except no more KPs on MacBooks with 4GB of RAM using DVD Player (yea!!) and Airport seems to be totally stable.

FYI, 10.5.3 and Fusion 1.1.2 was fine and 10.5.3 and Fusion 2beta also seems fine.

Happy computing.

I find column view pretty annoying actually. It truncates my file names and changing the sort is a pain. List view shows the full file name and to change from date, or type, or name sorting you just click the top of the column. Also, it's just too much info jammed into one area. Icons are actually easier to identify than words. And guess what, they take up less space than list view or column view. Try it. In column view I can only display 1/3rd of the number of files at one time as I can in icon view. Plus, even in the icon view displaying 3 times as many files, it's easier to read with all the white space. And come on, if you're looking for a quicktime, or a picture file, column view is useless. Put icon view into full size icons and you can still get the same number of files on the screen as column view, except with big 1 inch thumbnails of the file image.

Cover Flow is pretty amazing as well. It'll show a huge image of your file, whether it be qt, jpg, doc, psd, pdf, etc. Very easy to visually find a file.
 
now this is weird.
yesterday software update said 198MB for 10.5.3 and I thought I'll wait and see the reactions and then maybe install it later.
Today it shows 420MB.
I wonder what changed.
:confused::confused:
 
I'm not too happy with this update. I've had to force-restart my computer twice today. My record uptime with 10.5.2 was 32 days.

It also did something funny with my graphics card - see attachment. I just hit F9 for expose and it froze like this, requiring a force-restart. (It didn't blur the photos in iPhoto - I did that.)
 
Anyway, I'm happy to report that the "new mail sound is erratic" issue has been solved. There's now no new mail sound, ever. :rolleyes:
 
no problems

I installed it on my iMac and have had no problems so far. It took 2 restarts on both my iMac and MacBook to boot up but I don't consider that a problem. I find that it has fixed a glitch I was having with my Bose Companion 5 speakers. every now and then the sound would crackle up in iTunes but I haven't had it happen since I updated. Overall I am pleased:)
 
How about printing a directory listing? Still can't do it. You could do it in... oh, probably EVERY version before X.

Ever try dragging a folder onto your printer icon? Open your printer queue and just drag any folder from the Finder and it will print out a list of the folder contents. I'm not sure exactly how long this has been a feature in OS X but, it's also there in Tiger too.
 
I keep getting the beachball for a few seconds in Safari, then all is fine...this has lasted past restarts, and I have added no extras I didn't have before.
 
Ever try dragging a folder onto your printer icon? Open your printer queue and just drag any folder from the Finder and it will print out a list of the folder contents. I'm not sure exactly how long this has been a feature in OS X but, it's also there in Tiger too.

How about creating a text file instead.
 
Good luck, suc..., uh, beta testers!

They NEVER get it even REMOTELY right until 10.X.5 or 10.X.6, and then it's all downhill from there until the FINAL release as they ruin it with all the necessary hooks for all the unecessary performance-degrading (and sometimes unbelievably irrritating) eye candy "wow" "features" of the next release.

And by the middle releases everyone else usually gets their drivers and software working by then too. Patience pays.

Those of you who need a stable system... you've been warned.

Unpaid beta testers... GO FOR IT!:apple:
 
I haven't noticed anything massively different with 10.5.3, but I am pleased that it appears to have fixed the problem I've been having with my 1st generation Mac Pro with upgraded graphics card (NVidia 8800GT). When I put the computer to sleep and woke it again, there was a less than 50% chance it would actually wake up properly (the fans would just spin until I held the power button down to shut the computer down). Glad it's fixed.
 
I volunteer on many fronts, why not Apple. ;)

Updated yesterday with the 420meg version.

Wondered why my New E-mail "ding" was missing. Oh well, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

:apple:
 
I volunteer on many fronts, why not Apple. ;)

Updated yesterday with the 420meg version.

Wondered why my New E-mail "ding" was missing. Oh well, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

:apple:

I'm beginning to miss that "ding"... if it ever comes back, it'll be like reuniting with an old friend.
 
Apple seems to have some real problems with its system sounds.

Sometimes when I start my iMac, the sound gets loaded, sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't I can't hear any sounds and the speaker icon is missing from the menu bar. When I restart the computer usually the sound is restored.

This was a problem 2 updates ago, the previous update fixed it and now with version 10.5.3 the intermittent sound problem has returned.
 
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