1080p Handbrake settings for new Apple TV?

[atandon]

is it just me, or do i not see much of a difference between a ~1280px width and a ~1800px width movie resolution (i forget the height)? i had ratatouille encoded for the ipad2 native resolution, then got one at 1080p encoded via handbrake high profile and i could barely tell the difference between the two, if at all, yet the file size doubled. please correct me if i'm wrong, but as of now, i don't think any visible difference is worth cutting my new ipad's storage in half if i were to update all my movies.

Depends on your TV set, apple tv version and distance from your tv set.
If your set is 1080p and the apple tv is version 3 and if you are within "reasonable" distance from your TV set, you should see a difference.

[EDIT]
Nevermind. Didn't notice you were referring to ipad as the display type.
I believe the native ipad2 resolution is 1024 x 768.
So you wouldn't see a difference in pic quality.
With ipad 3 one would see a difference since the native resolution is 2048-by-1536

 

[Mike Valmike]

Yes 2-pass produces a slightly better encode but at a massive encoding time penalty. CQ produces superb quality encodes in half the time.

I think we are in agreement here. In this case, the difference in approach comes from what we want out of our encodes.

I am perfectly content to let the encode run all night if I have to, but the result I want is a beautiful encode in as small a file as I can, to get it to the threshold of, as you noted, diminishing returns. Once I've encoded something really well, I don't have to encode it again. Front-loading the processing time just makes sense from that perspective.

For a person who is trying to eliminate their shelf full of DVDs in a reasonable time and with minimal hassle, I concede that the RF CQ method is probably going to better fit that workflow.

I know nothing we do is going to maintain blu-ray quality, other than just keeping the 38GB mkv file and sublerring it to an mp4 or what have you. Since we're already giving that up, my goal is to yield as little ground as possible on quality while getting the biggest possible chop in size. There comes a quality floor at which point further cutting doesn't help, either. Right now on 2-pass, I never set a bitrate other than 768k for any 4:3 SD content whatsoever*. That's because at that average bitrate, you are getting something like 99.9999% of the quality possible in the source. Rip a couple hundred episodes of various Star Trek series and you start becoming really aware through trial and error of your encode outcomes.

* Almost forgot -- for 15fps anime, you go with half that, or 384k. It seems too small but try encoding Macross, for example, at that bitrate, high profile, 2-pass, and you'll be surprised to see that you pretty much lose zero visible quality.

 

[crazee928]

Depends on your TV set, apple tv version and distance from your tv set.
If your set is 1080p and the apple tv is version 3 and if you are within "reasonable" distance from your TV set, you should see a difference.

[EDIT]
Nevermind. Didn't notice you were referring to ipad as the display type.
I believe the native ipad2 resolution is 1024 x 768.
So you wouldn't see a difference in pic quality.
With ipad 3 one would see a difference since the native resolution is 2048-by-1536

i would think that too, but comparing the 2 files on the ipad3, i really didn't see much difference, at least for ratatouille, the only movie i was able to compare with. definitely not 2x the sharpness for 2x the file size.

 

[shortcut3d]

Wirelessly posted

I'm the first to admit when I am wrong and am amending my previous comments on RF22. Salt and Rango results still yielded good results at RF22. However, that did not carry over to Avatar and Sucker Punch. My original test on chapters 2-6 yielded great results at RF22. Unfortunately, those results did not translate well to the 100% Pandora forest sequences. There was noticeable loss in sharpness in the sequences. Oddly, Rango did not have issues and is all CGI. Lastly, Sucker Punch was a complete failure. The grainy nature of the film actually need more accuracy in the compression or the underlying detail is washed out.

Conclusion is that RF22 is suitable for certain content, but it's not a general rule.

Has anyone noticed that encoding from Blu-Ray folders vs MKVs results in a file about 200MB larger? I'm using Handbrake 0.96 in Windows 7 x64

 

[chiefpavvy]

I just use high profile and leave the defaults. RF 20 is fine. From time to time I will go RF 19 or maybe RF 18 but that's pushing it. Results are always superb. I don't see much point in tinkering beyond that, you begin to reach the point of diminishing returns pretty quick and risk having a file that works on some devices and not others if you get too carried away in the x264 options.

 

[chiefpavvy]

It would be great if Apple could implement a feature, though I know it would be slow but it downscales videos when you transfer them to your iPad or iPhone, to save on space. I know their solution is to give you three quality versions now if you buy it from their store, but that still takes up a lot of space on your externals, even if you have 8tb (tv shows particularly are bad). Maybe this is something they are thinking about, since there was that article about a variable audio codec, which goes up to HD sound and down based on your connection/device.

Well they did it with audio and have expanded upon that functionality, so anything is possible. Of course it is much faster to transcode audio than video.

I do the same as you with StreamToMe also AirVideo. Gives me access to my entire library any time, any place. You are right that network speed can be an issue, but I find it works well most of the time. Trying to store 1080P movies on devices with (at best) 64GB of capacity is a losing proposition IMHO.

 

[ATJ777]

Don't the LOTR series use DTS? How did you deal with that.

Yes, they use DTS. I just selected High Profile and it created two audio tracks, one AAC with mixdown to Dolby Pro Logic II and the other AC3/6-channel discrete. I didn't change anything in that area.

When I played it on my TV (Samsung LCD) connected to a Panasonic SA-HT15, I got 5.1.

 

[pheenix11]

Can someone please explain to me which setting for anamorphic I should be choosing when encoding Blu Ray MKV's at 1080p with the Handbrake High Profile preset? I've heard strict, none, loose, and none of it really makes sense.

What do you guys choose and why?

 

[NightStorm]

Can someone please explain to me which setting for anamorphic I should be choosing when encoding Blu Ray MKV's at 1080p with the Handbrake High Profile preset? I've heard strict, none, loose, and none of it really makes sense.

What do you guys choose and why?

Strict -- no chance of inadvertent scaling of image.

 

[dynaflash]

Strict -- no chance of inadvertent scaling of image.

+1 for strict here loose with mod 16 can induce inadvertent scaling as NightStorm said.

 

[pheenix11]

Are you talking about the image being made 1920 x 1088 instead?

I just want it too look how it was intended but not unnecessarily bog down the encoding or add or subtract anything from it.

Why not anamorphic set to none, what does that do?

I read Handbrakes's explanation but it mostly seemed geared towards DVD's instead of Blu Rays. I thought Blu Rays weren't anamorphic anyways?

 

[knemonic]

Subtitle issue

Working on Pan's Labyrinth right now.

I was able to extract the Sup file using MKVextract and then converted it to a Sub file with BD Sup2Sub.

Using Submerge, I was going to burn the Sub file into the already transcoded PL m4v file.

When I try to choose the Sub file in Submerge, it gives me an error saying the Sub file is not recognized and cannot be used.

Any suggestions?

 

[shortcut3d]

Are you talking about the image being made 1920 x 1088 instead?

I just want it too look how it was intended but not unnecessarily bog down the encoding or add or subtract anything from it.

Why not anamorphic set to none, what does that do?

I read Handbrakes's explanation but it mostly seemed geared towards DVD's instead of Blu Rays. I thought Blu Rays weren't anamorphic anyways?

The older versions of Handbrake were not as efficient when the aspect ratio was not divisible by 16. This is no longer an issue. Strict will also save some space when HB adds to the dimensions using Loose. Though I still use Loose for 720p.

I performed numerous test last night on chapter 4 of Sucker Punch (Giant Samurai fight scene) approx 11 minutes.

-High Profile Preset, 2-pass 2500k, 0.26GB, 44 minutes, unacceptable quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF22, 0.78GB, 22 minutes, unacceptable but slightly better quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF20, UMH, Pyramidal:Strict, 1.02GB, 28 minutes, very good quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF18, 1.76GB, 22 minutes, excellent quality

 

[khollister]

Working on Pan's Labyrinth right now.

I was able to extract the Sup file using MKVextract and then converted it to a Sub file with BD Sup2Sub.

Using Submerge, I was going to burn the Sub file into the already transcoded PL m4v file.

When I try to choose the Sub file in Submerge, it gives me an error saying the Sub file is not recognized and cannot be used.

Any suggestions?

BDsup2sub creates two files a sub and an idx. In MKVmerge, it is the idx file that is selected - the sub file is pulled in during processing.

 

[knemonic]

BDsup2sub creates two files a sub and an idx. In MKVmerge, it is the idx file that is selected - the sub file is pulled in during processing.

I beleive what you you are saying is pre-MKV and what I am doing is post MKV.

I already have a Handbrake made version of the film, so now I want to burn the subtitles in to that m4v.

I didn't know Handbrake didn't support blu-ray subtitles until after I converted it. And I don't want to spend another 6 hours converting it with an corrected MKV if I don't have to.

Any thought? Thanks!

 

[pheenix11]

The older versions of Handbrake were not as efficient when the aspect ratio was not divisible by 16. This is no longer an issue. Strict will also save some space when HB adds to the dimensions using Loose. Though I still use Loose for 720p.

I performed numerous test last night on chapter 4 of Sucker Punch (Giant Samurai fight scene) approx 11 minutes.

-High Profile Preset, 2-pass 2500k, 0.26GB, 44 minutes, unacceptable quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF22, 0.78GB, 22 minutes, unacceptable but slightly better quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF20, UMH, Pyramidal:Strict, 1.02GB, 28 minutes, very good quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF18, 1.76GB, 22 minutes, excellent quality

Thanks for the test results! I was planning on using 18, I heard that seems to be the sweet spot.

 

[jaysue]

The older versions of Handbrake were not as efficient when the aspect ratio was not divisible by 16. This is no longer an issue. Strict will also save some space when HB adds to the dimensions using Loose. Though I still use Loose for 720p.

I performed numerous test last night on chapter 4 of Sucker Punch (Giant Samurai fight scene) approx 11 minutes.

-High Profile Preset, 2-pass 2500k, 0.26GB, 44 minutes, unacceptable quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF22, 0.78GB, 22 minutes, unacceptable but slightly better quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF20, UMH, Pyramidal:Strict, 1.02GB, 28 minutes, very good quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF18, 1.76GB, 22 minutes, excellent quality

For the High Preset, CQ RF18 setting, was your cropping automatic or all zeros and was it strict as well?

 

[shortcut3d]

For the High Preset, CQ RF18 setting, was your cropping automatic or all zeros and was it strict as well?

Cropping was automatic and Anamorphic was set to Strict.

I viewed the Blu-Ray mkv.remux and compared RF20 and RF18. I definitely can not tell the difference between Blu-Ray and RF18. There is a very slight reduction in sharpness going from RF18 to RF20. I could not notice on my two 1080p LCD TVs, but could see it on my 27" iMac and 15" Macbook Pro Hi-Res. Definitely worth considering your viewing conditions and storage situation before moving to RF18.

 

[knemonic]

Cropping was automatic and Anamorphic was set to Strict.

I viewed the Blu-Ray mkv.remux and compared RF20 and RF18. I definitely can not tell the difference between Blu-Ray and RF18. There is a very slight reduction in sharpness going from RF18 to RF20. I could not notice on my two 1080p LCD TVs, but could see it on my 27" iMac and 15" Macbook Pro Hi-Res. Definitely worth considering your viewing conditions and storage situation before moving to RF18.

I might consider going with rf18 cause I am watching them on a 91" projection screen, but based on the above results, 42% bigger files could really kill storage. Though the trade off is ur getting near BD quality for longterm purposes, so maybe it is worth it, then you wont ever need to be concerned with quality until 4k becomes big.

So at rf18, they are playable on the ATV3 then?

 

[khollister]

I beleive what you you are saying is pre-MKV and what I am doing is post MKV.

I already have a Handbrake made version of the film, so now I want to burn the subtitles in to that m4v.

I didn't know Handbrake didn't support blu-ray subtitles until after I converted it. And I don't want to spend another 6 hours converting it with an corrected MKV if I don't have to.

Any thought? Thanks!

Oh - my bad. I have no idea on how else to do it

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I might consider going with rf18 cause I am watching them on a 91" projection screen, but based on the above results, 42% bigger files could really kill storage. Though the trade off is ur getting near BD quality for longterm purposes, so maybe it is worth it, then you wont ever need to be concerned with quality until 4k becomes big.

So at rf18, they are playable on the ATV3 then?

Yup - that's what I'm using.

 

[chiefpavvy]

IMHO RF 18 is really overkill for most titles and most situations. You are producing very large files at that RF...and if file size isn't an issue, why not just remux the original Blu-Ray and add AC3? Why waste hours on conversion?

I'm speaking strictly if the original Blu-Ray disc is your source. I realize other sources are lower quality and RF 18 (or even lower) may be appropriate.

 

[knemonic]

Oh - my bad. I have no idea on how else to do it

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Yup - that's what I'm using.

Success!

I found a great way around my problem, which might be much easier for everyone in the future instead of doing sup extraction, converting and merging back into the original mkv.

Instead of dealing with Sup BD files, which were causing me tons of headaches, I went with Subler.

Since I already converted PL to an m4v, subler allows me to add a subtitle separately and very easily. I found a blu-ray copy of PL subtitles taken straight from a BD in srt format, which matched the duration and was a straight, probably OCR'd version of the BD subtitles, in perfect order (I was having a tough time just OCR'ing the SUP file).

What's even better is I also changed the file to be 1080p HD in iTunes (so it shows the little HD icon) and defaulted the languages appropriately, and when saved took a min (submerge actually takes 15-20 min to burn the titles in).

The beauty now is that you can choose to have the subtitles play on the ATV, instead of have them burned in. And it works in iTunes and QT.

What's even better is Subler allows you to change anything, so if I want to add another language to it later, simple easy.

I also added some nice artwork. Might even start doing this to all my new flicks.

So no re-encodes, soft subtitles that work in iTunes and on the ATV and extra bonuses through Subler.

Fantastic!

 

[hipnetic]

Subler sounds great, but what you've described doesn't sound like a simpler approach going forward when ripping/converting a movie. I would still recommend MakeMKV -> Demux subs -> Convert subs -> Remux subs -> Handbrake. I'm only doing this for forced subs so, for me, I prefer to burn them in and not have to worry about them accidentally being turned off. Plus, I want to burn my subs inside the frame of the movie (rather than in the black bars), whereas I think non-burned in subs might float over the black bar area. The reason I care about this is because I have a movie room with a front projector and I'm planning on upgrading my screen to a larger 2.35:1 screen later.

 

[gjlutz]

The older versions of Handbrake were not as efficient when the aspect ratio was not divisible by 16. This is no longer an issue. Strict will also save some space when HB adds to the dimensions using Loose. Though I still use Loose for 720p.

I performed numerous test last night on chapter 4 of Sucker Punch (Giant Samurai fight scene) approx 11 minutes.

-High Profile Preset, 2-pass 2500k, 0.26GB, 44 minutes, unacceptable quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF22, 0.78GB, 22 minutes, unacceptable but slightly better quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF20, UMH, Pyramidal:Strict, 1.02GB, 28 minutes, very good quality
-High Profile Preset, CQ RF18, 1.76GB, 22 minutes, excellent quality

I used your High Profile CQ RF18 suggestion - and it worked flawlessly - and played perfectly on AppleTV - however it will not play on my iPad 3 - are there specifications that are different for iPad 3 that would cause this to not play?

 

[IscariotJ]

I, too, would be interested in a simple way to do this using program(s) compatible with Windows 7.

Here's mine, though I only do the initial ripping under Win7.

- Rip with AnyDVD HD
- Extract video / audio / subtitles with ClownBD
- Convert the subs with BSup2Sub
- Mux everything back in with mkvmerge

I then do then encode with HB on my iMac. For a much more detailed explanation, have a look here.

HTH....