10GB of RAM in 2010 Quad or Hexcore?

[bzollinger]

Just a quick question about the four RAM slots in the SP 2010 MPs. If an MP was ordered with 3GB of RAM, and an 8GB (2x4GB) kit was purchased, could you simply pull one of the 1GB DIMMS, and add the two 4GB sticks to make a total of 10GB of RAM?

Would that mean the the DIMMS would operate in dual channel mode? And would the 4GB sticks need to be installed in the first two RAM slots with the 1GB sticks in the 3rd and 4th slots?

Thanks,
BZ

 

[keewe]

u cant use RAM from other vendors like OWC with the shipped apple ram.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

u cant use RAM from other vendors like OWC with the shipped apple ram.

Incorrect.

Just a quick question about the four RAM slots in the SP 2010 MPs. If an MP was ordered with 3GB of RAM, and an 8GB (2x4GB) kit was purchased, could you simply pull one of the 1GB DIMMS, and add the two 4GB sticks to make a total of 10GB of RAM?

Would that mean the the DIMMS would operate in dual channel mode? And would the 4GB sticks need to be installed in the first two RAM slots with the 1GB sticks in the 3rd and 4th slots?

Thanks,
BZ

Yes that's exactly how it would work. It would run with 2x1GB and 2x4GB in dual channel giving 10GB total in dual channel mode.

 

[keewe]

did they change anything with the 2010 line or is OWC just missing the info on their 2010 page?

IMPORTANT OWC NOTE:

The OWC p/n OWC8566D3MPE4GB 4GB modules included in this kit require that all installed modules be of this same matching part. Other existing Apple or 3rd party 1GB, 2GB and 4GB modules are not supported for use with this kit and need to be removed when this kit is added.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/85MP3S4M12GK/

 

[strausd]

did they change anything with the 2010 line or is OWC just missing the info on their 2010 page?



http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/85MP3S4M12GK/

I noticed that and thought it was strange. Maybe they haven't said it yet because they haven't been able to test it yet.

 

[bzollinger]

That would be strange if it didn't work. As long as the RAM is of the same spec it shouldn't matter from what I understand. I'd also be probably buying it from these guys anyway: http://www.transintl.com/store/category.cfm?Category=2859&RequestTimeOut=500

They have a lifetime warranty and as long as the pairs are from one company, in this case one pair of 1GBs from Apple and a pair of 4GBs from transintl.com I should be good to go.

That's a good deal too if you ask me. Add $285 to the $2659 (education price), and get a 3.2GHz Quad w/ 10GB of RAM for $2944 just under $3k. Right at budget!

If I bump up to the 3.33 GHz hexacore then I'm over budget and not real sure that I'll benefit from it with my work flow.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Icaras]

Incorrect.

Would you mind elaborating for us? A few of us here, including myself, were under the impression that you could not mix RAM modules by various vendors, and I think we took OWC's warning literally.

From the OWC page of the module that keewe just linked:

The OWC p/n OWC8566D3MPE4GB 4GB modules included in this kit require that all installed modules be of this same matching part. Other existing Apple or 3rd party 1GB, 2GB and 4GB modules are not supported for use with this kit and need to be removed when this kit is added.

I also remember researching this and found a thread under the Apple support discussions that some people had problems going this route.

So is this just marketing gimmick by OWC to get us to buy all their RAM from them. Honestly, I find it wierd myself that you wouldn't be able to mix and match various vendor RAM, and that was the first time I've heard of such a warning, so I wanted to clear this up for good.

 

[strausd]

That would be strange if it didn't work. As long as the RAM is of the same spec it shouldn't matter from what I understand. I'd also be probably buying it from these guys anyway: http://www.transintl.com/store/category.cfm?Category=2859&RequestTimeOut=500

They have a lifetime warranty and as long as the pairs are from one company, in this case one pair of 1GBs from Apple and a pair of 4GBs from transintl.com I should be good to go.

That's a good deal too if you ask me. Add $285 to the $2659 (education price), and get a 3.2GHz Quad w/ 10GB of RAM for $2944 just under $3k. Right at budget!

If I bump up to the 3.33 GHz hexacore then I'm over budget and not real sure that I'll benefit from it with my work flow.

Thanks for the info.

Just FYI OWC has the same warranty. And I think TransIntl also has the same disclaimer about only using matching pairs. And if the 1GB sticks won't work with the 4GB sticks at the same time, you can't send them to TransIntl for a rebate, but you can with OWC. But as far as I know, both companies have good quality RAM. Crucial is supposed to as well, but their prices have gone way up lately.

Edit: From TransIntl:
"Note: 4GB Modules should be matching pairs from Transintl only."

 

[bzollinger]

Here's my effort to clear this up.

You can run memory in dual or tripple channel modes. If you're running in tripple channel you must have a "kit" from whomever of 3 matching DIMMS. You can't put one Apple DIMM and two OWC DIMMS and make a tripple channel kit. This has been the case for matching pairs (two DIMMS) and for tripple channel memory since dual channel memory came out.

So in my scenerio, I want to run the memory in dual channel mode with two kits. One "kit" will be two 1GB sticks from Apple (bought w/ MP), and one "kit" of 4GB sticks from transintl or OWC. Both PAIRS will run in dual channel mode and should be compatible with each other.

Apple is stupid for touting the SP MPs w/ four RAM slots as tripple channel, it doesn't add up very well, as you can max it out w/ 3x4GB chips and have one unused slot.?????😕🙄

Make sense?

 

[nanofrog]

Edit: From TransIntl:
"Note: 4GB Modules should be matching pairs from Transintl only."

The 4GB DIMM's have a thermal sensor on them.

There's other caveats too (Intel, not Apple), such as it all must be the same type (non-ECC, and if it's ECC, it all has to be either UDIMM or RDIMM; Unbuffered and Registered ECC respectively). These different types of DDR3 cannot be mixed together.

 

[Icaras]

The 4GB DIMM's have a thermal sensor on them.

There's other caveats too (Intel, not Apple), such as it all must be the same type (non-ECC, and if it's ECC, it all has to be either UDIMM or RDIMM; Unbuffered and Registered ECC respectively). These different types of DDR3 cannot be mixed together.

So it simply because there are so many variables to consider that these vendors go out of their way to claim that all modules should be purchased by them and not mixed with others?

So that they can avoid confused and angry customers when there MP gets bricked from mixing different types of DIMMs?

 

[keewe]

thats interesting. so its possible it works out fine? and you can't do any damage by just give it a shot?

 

[nanofrog]

So it simply because there are so many variables to consider that these vendors go out of their way to claim that all modules should be purchased by them and not mixed with others?

So that they can avoid confused and angry customers when there MP gets bricked from mixing different types of DIMMs?

Sort of.

You can mix 1 & 2GB OEM and OWC or TransInt'l DIMMs (all UDIMM without any thermal sensors). The 4GB sticks have the thermal sensors, and don't work properly if mixed with UDIMM's missing the sensor (so 4GB UDIMM won't play well with smaller UDIMM's, as they're missing the blasted sensor).

The 8GB sticks also have the thermal sensors, but though not stated, it's RDIMM, which is why it won't mix with the smaller capacity DIMM's either.

So OWC tried to make it easier, and make the statements they do. 😉

 

[Icaras]

Sort of.

You can mix 1 & 2GB OEM and OWC or TransInt'l DIMMs (all UDIMM without any thermal sensors). The 4GB sticks have the thermal sensors, and don't work properly if mixed with UDIMM's missing the sensor (so 4GB UDIMM won't play well with smaller UDIMM's, as they're missing the blasted sensor).

The 8GB sticks also have the thermal sensors, but though not stated, it's RDIMM, which is why it won't mix with the smaller capacity DIMM's either.

So OWC tried to make it easier, and make the statements they do. 😉

I see. Yea they definitely do simplify the reason 🙂

So starting from 4GB DIMMs and up, they have that thermal sensor, and so really, I can order OWC and mix it with my stock 3x1GB Apple DIMMs without any hitch then?

But do DIMM sizes have to match in size? For example, I can't leave 2x1GBs of Apple RAM inside and plug the third DIMM slot with a 1x4GB DIMM from OWC. They would either have to be all 1GB DIMMs or 4GB DIMMs?

I hope I have this right....

Edit: Sorry, got it. Just read "matched sets required". Thanks!

 

[PMacP]

So in my scenerio, I want to run the memory in dual channel mode with two kits. One "kit" will be two 1GB sticks from Apple (bought w/ MP), and one "kit" of 4GB sticks from transintl or OWC. Both PAIRS will run in dual channel mode and should be compatible with each other.

Then, would this scenario also work for triple channel mode:
3x1GB from Apple + 3x4GB from OWC?

 

[CaoCao]

Then, would this scenario also work for triple channel mode:
3x1GB from Apple + 3x4GB from OWC?

yes, but it would have to be the right slots provided the OWC ones are ECC and of the right kind of ECC

 

[bzollinger]

yes, but it would have to be the right slots provided the OWC ones are ECC and of the right kind of ECC

No, in the case of the 4 or 6 core machines because there are only four slots, but yes in the case of the 8 or 12 core machines because there are enough slots, but as you say, they have to be in the proper slots.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

Wow, I didn't know about the thermal sensor in the 4GB modules at all. I don't understand why if one pair has a thermal sensor then it means another separate pair without the sensor will make things mess up. I thought all that mattered were matched pairs. Apple doesn't say anything on their Mac Pro memory page or the Mac Pro tech specs page. Maybe Apple's 4GB DIMMs don't have the thermal sensor on them.

 

[Sleephartha]

Can someone post a good link that will explain RAM configurations clearly and simply? This must exist somewhere. Or just spell it out here? I've searched a few sites online and still don't think I have a clear picture. There seem to be quite a few variables:

Single vs Dual Processor
Dual/Triple Channel
Pairs vs Triads
What slots to put them in
Mixing sizes (1/2/4/8 gig)
"Kits" (Is it just a 'set' of 2 for dual and 3 for triple?)

I had assumed that for my Quad 3.2 the goal would eventually be to max out the ram at 16g so that the sensible thing to do would be to buy 2x4g sticks so that I could eventually add 1 or 2 more 4g sticks if necessary. But would 3x4g sticks run triple channel and 4x4g run in dual channel? Ugh. Clarity....

***Edit*** Just found this link which has been helpful:

http://macperformanceguide.com/Reviews-MacProWestmere-Memory.html

 

[skiffx]

Isnt it always recommended to have the same type of ram in all slots? In PCs I always thought that you wouldnt want to mix 4gb sticks with 1gbs even if they are properly channeled.

 

[PMacP]

No, in the case of the 4 or 6 core machines because there are only four slots, but yes in the case of the 8 or 12 core machines because there are enough slots, but as you say, they have to be in the proper slots.

Thanks for the replies.

In a 12-core scenario with 3x1GB from Apple and 3x4GB from OWC, what are the proper slots? Apple 1, 2, 3 and OWC 4, 5, 6 - meaning they'd have to be sequential?

 

[gaspra]

Can someone post a good link that will explain RAM configurations clearly and simply?

When I installed the 3party ram in my 2009, after reboot the OS asked me to change the ram sequence. There was a on screen diagram showing the configuration. I had 6x1GB and I added 2x2GB, so the configuration was:

slot 1(5): 1GB
slot 2(6): 2GB
slot 3(7): 1GB
slot 4(8): 1GB

 

[gaspra]

Would you mind elaborating for us? A few of us here, including myself, were under the impression that you could not mix RAM modules by various vendors, and I think we took OWC's warning literally.

Because OWC warned people doesn't mean you can't use other rams. I am using Patriot 4GB Mac compatible memory, works like a charm. The OS has no problem showing the ram info including the serial numbers.

 

[cutterman]

The temp sensors are available on 1 and 2gb 1333mhz dims, not just the 4 gb modules. These were Kingston parts on ramshopping.com.

I ordered additional 4gb dims from crucial for a 12 core system. Hopefully they will be compatible with the existing 2gb units. I am waiting to hear from crucial on the compatibility question. I would be surprised if they are not.

 

[bzollinger]

I'm pretty sure that as long as the memory is of compatible spec in regards to, dual or triple channel kits (matched DIMMS), ECC, proper speed (1066 or 1333MHz), and installed in the proper slots it will work.

As gaspra states if you get the order wrong the MP is smart enough to know, and will guide you to the proper placement.

Also I'm pretty sure that if you use 1333MHz memory in a system that runs at 1066MHz, it will simply throttle it back to 1066MHz. So really if the price is the same why not buy the faster RAM?