11" MacBook Air Owner Connects High-End Graphics Card With Complex Thunderbolt Setup

[LordVic]

Fair enough, so if I understand you correctly the only limiting factor here is power supply (?). And well yeah, price.

Is it really crazy to imagine that the next generation of such products will support higher power draws?

I've been trying to follow along with Thunderbolt parts since I bought my 2011 MBA cause i was extremely excited for having a "all in one" computer.

The idea i had was to have a super portable computer, but when i got home, locked it into a docking station, have decent performance for other tasks.

however, in that time, we've seen very very little consumer oriented products released. hard drive bays has been the norm, and at that, they're not overly affordable compared to USB3 products.

Apple and intel should have been pushign Thunderbolt like crazy. made it very affordable. But it's not. it's currently a niche product at a high premium. Which, while sounding very Applelike, makes it a tough choice for development'

nando4

I saw that at Computex and it's extremely promising, as this is exactly what I want.
However.

its still not a retail consumer product. there are a lot fo things showcased at Computex that take years to make it to market, or not at all.
Heck, look at the Belkin TB dock. it was at Computex for 3 different years before finally being released to market, and was priced way too high and is generally considered a dud!

 

[ctdonath]

As another poster said, why use an ultra-thin laptop for this kind of setup if a user is only going to bulk it up with adapters and extra hardware so that it can accept a PC graphics card?

Think: TB-to-HDMI adapter. It's just a display adapter dongle...but with the added ability to run insane graphics complexity & framerate. You leave it with your big-screen HDTV, or if needed take it with you for crazy-fast on-notebook graphics.

Yeah, this one is all kinds of adapters and extras and bulk, but it's just a v0.1 prototype. I expect we'll see a Kickstarter any day now putting it all in a slick package at a reasonable price.

If your primary need is extreme portability, and your secondary need is extreme graphics, and you don't want to coordinate two full computers for each, this is a sensible niche solution.

And no, it won't kill your battery. Requiring upwards of a 1000-watt power supply, you WILL be plugging this dongle into the wall.

 

[MacMan988]

good..

 

[blitzer09x87]

great experiment. wish i had those high-tech devices.

 

[nando4]

Could you please explain more about the PCI Reset Delay is and how this makeshift solution supports it?

Thanks a million!

The PE4L has a switch (SW1) where a user can set a 0, 500ms or 6.9s PCI Reset Delay. Sonnet/Magma/OWC products do not have that requiring a circuit workaround to do it. Without it you *might* be able to get UEFI mode to work. I say might because we've had numerous users have iGPU activation issues on 11/13" MBA/MBP systems. MBR/BIOS mode as setup by Bootcamp has no iGPU issues but the system simply will not boot in that mode without the PCI Reset Delay.

Sony did a cleaner thing with the Sony Vaio Z2, several years ago. I'm amazed that nobody else has jumped on board the eGPU bandwagon. It's such an OBVIOUS money-maker given the right hardware.

Turns out the PMD (with HD6650M/HD7670M) attached to the Sony Z2/Z3 Lightpeak (LP) port is also a 10Gbps link just like Thunderbolt. Sony never bothered to allow an external desktop video card via it's proprietary LP port. So MikJoa completely ignored the LP port and instead cut a hole in his Z3 and wired up an eGPU using the x1 2.0 (5Gbps) mPCIe wifi slot. From DIY eGPU guide for sony VAIO VPC-Z2 & SVZ13:

Seeking Intel/Apple cooperation

The pressure is on for Intel/Apple to stop resisting TB eGPUs, allowing manufacturers to create affordable solutions for their users to enjoy. Else we'll continue to see more hacks via mPCIe slots as workarounds.

Had Intel been more cooperative we would have seen eGPUs over 4 years go. Rather than cooperate, Intel did the opposite and locked down features like user-settable x2/x4 southbridge ports (starting Series-6) preventing ganging mPCIe/expresscard slots to extract multi-lane bandwidth. Does Intel suffer oppositional conduct disorder?

 

[apple_iBoy]

This article is the definition of a slow news day.

I think you're missing the point entirely. I think this is a pretty watershed moment.

Whether for gaming or for more "noble" purposes (scientific/medical imaging, photography/video work, etc.), the fact is demands on graphic performance for tomorrow is always greater than the capabilities of today. This is problematic for portable and recent desktop Macs, which have until now been constrained to forever using the graphic hardware with which they shipped.

This changes that. It's now conceivable that upgradable graphics performance will no-longer be the exclusive domain of the pre-cylinder Mac Pro.

I can't overstate how important I think this is.

 

[frjonah]

This is great... Need a tastefully designed implementation, though... Would be great for Photoshop work, I imagine. I've always dreamed of shooting Hasselblad tethered to MBA (since FireWire bridges to TB) but image processing would ruin the experience short of something like this.

 

[johnnyturbouk]

As another poster said, why use an ultra-thin laptop for this kind of setup if a user is only going to bulk it up with adapters and extra hardware so that it can accept a PC graphics card? And, more importantly, how does this affect the MBA's battery life? I am sure that this is a battery-guzzler and would kill the machine before even the first level of a game is finished...

I am pretty sure I one is going add extra adapters, dGPU and displays, they would have the machine on mains!

 

[ihuman:D]

I am pretty sure I one is going add extra adapters, dGPU and displays, they would have the machine on mains!

You'd be using this at a desk anyway.

 

[pastrychef]

Interesting article on graphics card connected via Thunderbolt

SSIA

Article is here.

 

[deconstruct60]

SSIA

Article is here

And also on the front page of MacRumors.


https://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/3...graphics-card-with-complex-thunderbolt-setup/

 

[pastrychef]

Oops. lol

 

[Irishman]

you are right, but as you said ... Having the option of potentially gaming with insane frame-rates when you want to, this would be incredible if apple could do something like this.

Imagine it: A super sleek, thin laptop with amazing battery life. Then if you want to have a nice little lan party, carry along a small caddy as well, and you're fragging in ultra quality at 60fps.

I would love if apple did this. It would be an insta-buy for me, no question about it.

+1,000,000,000

 

[Tech198]

You can't easily take the desktop PC without its GPU somewhere,,, can you?

No, but that wasn't the point i was making.

I was simply stating that if u have a PC capable of playing anyway, why not ?

A Macbook Air is designed to be portable, but u can't exactly play games this setup on the road can you ? The PC card came out of a PC, therefore the PC is nearby .... Why use a mac then ? other than just the show that it can be played over TB with smooth frame rates...

Thats all i'm saying ...... It's good you can use an external graphics, but in reality, this is not when you've left your desk. After all, its the reason why you even buy a laptop to begin with.

Having said that, all it shows off it the fact TB can do this .......... i nothing else.

 

[ActionableMango]

And there we see the sad future of iTube GPU upgrades.

 

[donutbagel]

A Macbook Air is designed to be portable, but u can't exactly play games this setup on the road can you ? The PC card came out of a PC, therefore the PC is nearby .... Why use a mac then ? other than just the show that it can be played over TB with smooth frame rates...

No, you can buy GPUs separately easily. I have a "PC", that is, not made for Mac GPU inside my Mac right now that I bought from Fry's by itself.

The idea of the MBA setup is that you have a MacBook Air, then you buy a GPU by itself and plug it into it with TB. Whenever you're at home, you have nice graphics rendering for games and such. You can then take the laptop with you anywhere without the GPU or maybe take the GPU with you if you need it. This way, it's like having two computers without buying two entire computers.

 

[Spytap]

No, but that wasn't the point i was making.

I was simply stating that if u have a PC capable of playing anyway, why not ?

A Macbook Air is designed to be portable, but u can't exactly play games this setup on the road can you ? The PC card came out of a PC, therefore the PC is nearby .... Why use a mac then ? other than just the show that it can be played over TB with smooth frame rates...

Thats all i'm saying ...... It's good you can use an external graphics, but in reality, this is not when you've left your desk. After all, its the reason why you even buy a laptop to begin with.

Having said that, all it shows off it the fact TB can do this .......... i nothing else.

I would love this setup - it's the exact right solution for me. 90% of the time, I want my laptop to be small and light with as much battery life as is possible. I'm using it for work and not gaming. 10% of the time, I'm sitting at my desk or at a friends house and would love to be able to plug something in and make it so that my gaming experience improves, battery life be damned (since I'm running on power cable anyway.)

Basically, it's the best of both worlds: light and sparse when you want - workhorse when you want. Neither impedes the other.

 

[Acorn]

The nay sayers to this are the same people who said the ipad would be flop.

 

[elec999]

Would be amazing if someone developed a Monitor with build in graphics card. So when you plug in your thunderbolt you can play better games.

 

[seek3r]

I cannot believe that actually works, lol. What's next, plug that into a VGA adapter and then run it on an old monitor? lol

Gotta tell you, it's only recently that I've had non-CRT screens handy that have as a high res as the my last remaining tube, a 21" HP branded Sony CRT beast that's still sitting on the corner of my desk. Don't knock old displays.

 

[goMac]

And there we see the sad future of iTube GPU upgrades.

No reason it couldn't be in an enclosure instead, but to be honest, I think we'll see internal GPU upgrades.

 

[MachineShedFred]

This was done over a year ago, and in a better way, by Netkas. Why go TB > ExpressCard > PCIe, when you can just go TB > PCIe?

I mean, if you like complexity, multiple bridge interfaces, and a spaghetti of wire, that's cool. But I'd rather use something that is available, supported, and just plain better.

See: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=885028&Q=&is=REG&A=details

 

[SockRolid]

(re: external Thunderbolt expandability and future Macs)

Seems like what they are doing with the Mac Pro. Not sure if notebooks will also see the modular approach.

Yeah. Maybe the iMac will always be a traditional one-piece computer.
After all, there's a big screen behind which Apple can attach components.
And no, I don't think we'll see daisy-chained Thunderbolt expansion modules
on MacBook Airs or MacBook Pros. (Well, maybe if they're desktop replacements.)

But I do think the Mac Pro will depend heavily on external CPU / GPU / storage.
And maybe the Mac mini too. Maybe some day you'll be able to rack up
Mac mini compute and storage modules to build your own "Xserve mini"?

And this is totally off-topic, but maybe the shiny anodized aluminum finish
on the Mac Pro will trickle down to other Apple products. How about a shiny
black aluminum finish on the iPhone 6? Or better yet, a shiny black
liquidmetal enclosure for the iPhone 6?

 

[macuserx86]

Im confident that Apple will utilize this paradigm for a "retina" (likely 4k) externalmonitor.

Put a decent GPU in the display that just drives that panel, connect via thunderbolt and you've got lag-free 4k even for a MacBook Air.

I'm disappointed that more OEMs haven't quite worked out how powerful TB is; this isn't just some spicy USB competitor, this is full PCIe outside of the main computer! The potential is incredible! The idea of the PowerBook Duo and other "docking" power ad ons can finally be realized in a standardized format.

Apple obviously gets it, as evidenced by the new Mac Pro. The cost goes up, but so does the flexibility and interoperability; use the same storage and IO devices with your desktop, laptop, whatever. You can add SAN, 10G ethernet, crazy RAIDS or whatever to any device, not just huge boxes with PCIe lanes. It's a cool future I think.

 

[nando4]

This was done over a year ago, and in a better way, by Netkas. Why go TB > ExpressCard > PCIe, when you can just go TB > PCIe?

I mean, if you like complexity, multiple bridge interfaces, and a spaghetti of wire, that's cool. But I'd rather use something that is available, supported, and just plain better.

See: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=885028&Q=&is=REG&A=details

1. Kloper includes the option of using a PE4H 3.2 enclosure instead of a PE4L 2.1b to tidy up the solution. Adds an extra $100 to the base cost. http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4H V3.2.html

2. Native 10Gbps TB solutions are covered, including their pitfalls (higher cost, deshelling to run dual-width cards, PCI Reset Delay hack circuit required) and includes a performance comparison between 10Gbps TB and 5Gbps expresscard. See http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-...card-pe4l-internal-lcd-[us$250].html#nativeTB for details.

So the native TB solutions have an additional level of complexity so certainly may not be the best solution for all. Please also elaborate on who supports external video cards on external TB enclosures. I'm curious who that is exactly and what video cards they support.