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11 vs 13
- Thread starter Otumelty
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Interesting. I just upgraded (or from your perspective, downgraded) from a 2011 13" Pro to a 2012 11" Air. I find the Air to be quite usable (for my work), though I think you'll get the most out of it if you use full-screen mode and master the Lion gestures (turning everything on in preferences).
Just way too small.. I do a lot of work using databases & spreadsheets and it just got tiresome (to say the least) to keep working on it when I'm on the move and without an external monitor.
I'm a native PC user at home, so I'm used to full-sized keyboards, 27' monitor, etc; and it was just a rough transition for me to go through.. It made things much more difficult than they should be, whether it's simple typing (I'm a pretty precise typist(?), but the 11' Air makes it difficult for me to type consistently), to even working on some hobbies such as photo/video editing & production.
If your main job is college student:
11" if you are in the humanities and you do most of your work at a desk with an external monitor.
11" is perfect for taking notes in class.
I don't understand why someone not doing video/audio work needs more than 4 GB. You should be doing coursework which means you have only 2 or 3 apps open at a time.
If sciences: maybe the 13"
11" if you are in the humanities and you do most of your work at a desk with an external monitor.
11" is perfect for taking notes in class.
I don't understand why someone not doing video/audio work needs more than 4 GB. You should be doing coursework which means you have only 2 or 3 apps open at a time.
If sciences: maybe the 13"
It baffles me that people ask this. Take a look at them in the store. If you can't go to the store, make cardboard replica's using the dimensions. The answer will smack you in the face.
This sounds harsh but it is sooooo true. I went to the store today and handled the new 15" Pros. They seemed HUGE to me, too much so. I then handled the 11" Air, and it seemed too small. The 13" Air was "just right". But that is for me. Different people have different tastes and tolerances for size and weight. This whole thing about 11" being good for one thing and 13" for another is nonsense. This is more about the user and not the application.
Both Airs have a full sized keyboard
I'm a software developer, have been professionally for 15 years now, and the 11" now is my only development machine. No extra monitor.
Both Airs have a full sized keyboard
I'm a software developer, have been professionally for 15 years now, and the 11" now is my only development machine. No extra monitor.
Well, you do understand you are likely in the minority, right?
Every developer I've worked with likes and uses the extra screen real estate. Working for extended periods of time staring at a computer screen, the bigger and higher rez the better. You have to make compromises as you can't carry 27" Thunderbolt displays in your pocket, but the 11" Air is at the other end of that spectrum....
The reason I ask is because playing with a computer in an apple store doesn't come close to showing a true user experience.
Yes, but a stranger's user experience will not be as helpful as your own. You really need to hold them and play with them even if just for a few minutes. If the 11" is too small, it will smack you in the face right away. If you use it for a few minutes and say "hey, this ain't bad", then there is hope. It won't guarantee that after 3 months of usage you could be regret getting such as small screen, but it evens the odds a bit.
It's a good question you asked, and I agree that the store doesn't tell you much. There are so many factors to consider, though, and it ends up coming down to personal preference. I think everyone would agree that the 13" is the safe bet. It is difficult to go wrong there.
When you go to either extreme in the Apple lineup: the iPhone (yes, the iPhone) and the Mac Pro, then you get into territory where you really need to know yourself, your device, and your workflow well.
A friend of mine does most of his work on the iPhone using a tiny external keyboard. I do a bit of mine on it too. It is actually a productivity workhorse.
I use the iPad for most of my work. It is right between the iPhone and Macbook Air 11". The 11" MBA covers for me on more demanding tasks. Frankly, for my needs, the 13" is overkill -- I don't need the battery or screen size as much as I need the portability.
The Mac Pro would be so wonderful (don't buy it yet, though, because it hasn't been adequately updated!), but totally wasted on me. I use them at my university on occasion to do heavy editing work on large PDFs and the like. It is blazingly fast and really a joy to use.
Not terribly convenient in a coffee shop, though
My point? The more you can tell us about you and your workflow, the more we can help you know which device is best for you. In general, though, if you are on the fence, the easy / safe choice is the 13".
Well, you do understand you are likely in the minority, right?
Every developer I've worked with likes and uses the extra screen real estate. Working for extended periods of time staring at a computer screen, the bigger and higher rez the better. You have to make compromises as you can't carry 27" Thunderbolt displays in your pocket, but the 11" Air is at the other end of that spectrum....
Again, I've doing this for over 15 years professionally, you do not need to explain the sentiment. In my first job I had a 17" CRT putting out 1024 x 768. In my last job I had a monster setup - 3 monitors, 2 x 24", 1 x 21". Monitors are very cheap now, and as such it's easier to be sloppy in your workflow by adding 'moah desktop' and feel that you're more productive.
If you're a good developer you can get away with a more minimalist setup. It's not hard. Having constraints can actually makes you better. You start to explore tiling managers, visor popups, minimalist editors, judicious use of workspaces. You might find yourself moving your hands away from home row less and less, which can be a tremendous improvement in productivity. Having lived with an abundance of 15 or 17" laptops for years (last being a 15" MBP), and now doing this with an 11", for the form factor convenience has ruined me for larger machines. Of course, everyone is different, sure. But if I have any complaint about the machine it's battery life.
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Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.
The advantage of the 11" over the 13" is the smaller size. I find it hard to imagine a situation where an 11" will fit and a 13" won't. Even on the tray table in a coach seat at your favorite budget airline, the 13" is small enough that it works. Both are equally thin, so we are talking 1" wider, 1.5" deeper, and 1/2 pound heavier. Is the extra 1.7" screen and 250,000 pixels worth it? I guess that boils down to a personal choice. If I can have more screen real estate in a form factor that is almost as portable (not to mention better battery life), why spend my hours squinting?
But that's me. YMMV.
The advantage of the 11" over the 13" is the smaller size. I find it hard to imagine a situation where an 11" will fit and a 13" won't. Even on the tray table in a coach seat at your favorite budget airline, the 13" is small enough that it works. Both are equally thin, so we are talking 1" wider, 1.5" deeper, and 1/2 pound heavier. Is the extra 1.7" screen and 250,000 pixels worth it? I guess that boils down to a personal choice. If I can have more screen real estate in a form factor that is almost as portable (not to mention better battery life), why spend my hours squinting?
But that's me. YMMV.
Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.
The advantage of the 11" over the 13" is the smaller size. I find it hard to imagine a situation where an 11" will fit and a 13" won't. Even on the tray table in a coach seat at your favorite budget airline, the 13" is small enough that it works. Both are equally thin, so we are talking 1" wider, 1.5" deeper, and 1/2 pound heavier. Is the extra 1.7" screen and 250,000 pixels worth it? I guess that boils down to a personal choice. If I can have more screen real estate in a form factor that is almost as portable (not to mention better battery life), why spend my hours squinting?
But that's me. YMMV.
funny that you say that, b.c i pretty much agree; However, i just think if i am at work and have room next to me an 11" would fit better than a 13", but then i would need a charger for the 11
Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Such as actually making this comment? Because as you said, YMMV. Look, I'm not telling everyone to go out and buy an 11". But there are comments in this thread stating that an 11" is unusable for real work, and I'm providing an example of real work being done where that is indeed not the case.
Who said anything about fit? This is about preference, correct? That one would prefer the smaller form factor over the extra screen real estate? Well I do, and amazingly enough, I'm quite productive with it.
I agree with you. "Unusable" is hyperbole. Of course it can be used. And like you many other people use it every day. But setting people's personal preferences aside, bigger screen is better. It's just physics. Yes, a screen can be too big, but in general the more screen you have to work with, the better off most mere mortals will be. Then it becomes a matter of compromise. How big of a screen do you want to lug around in your briefcase/backpack?
This is what turned me off from the 15" MBPr. Beautiful machine, but next to the 13" MBA it is still huge. Some people may choose to lug around that thing because of the larger/higher rez screen. Not me.
So we are on the same boat - we value portability over screen size. Great to have choices even in that context.
MBA 11" is my main machine, and I'm on it for 8-10 hrs per day. Mostly writing and simple spreadsheets.
Screen size has been fine, I'm sure a larger screen would be better (maybe external monitor), but I've got no complaints on the 11" screen.
One thing I really like about the smaller form factor is that the screen doesn't present a barrier when it is open in front of me and I'm across a desk from a client. Larger screen = larger barrier. Might be the same in school, smaller screen makes the laptop less of a physical obstacle.
Screen size has been fine, I'm sure a larger screen would be better (maybe external monitor), but I've got no complaints on the 11" screen.
One thing I really like about the smaller form factor is that the screen doesn't present a barrier when it is open in front of me and I'm across a desk from a client. Larger screen = larger barrier. Might be the same in school, smaller screen makes the laptop less of a physical obstacle.
It's a shame that Apple didn't shrink the footprint of the 13" MBA like Dell did with the XPS 13" Ultrabook. That would have made this decision soooo easy for me, since the smaller footprint of the 11" MBA is the ONLY thing I prefer about it vs the 13" model. I just like how little space it takes up on a table or desk -- period.
But I'll admit that Zboater's comments are making common sense logic to me, and that's probably the route I'll take.
But I'll admit that Zboater's comments are making common sense logic to me, and that's probably the route I'll take.
Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.
The advantage of the 11" over the 13" is the smaller size. I find it hard to imagine a situation where an 11" will fit and a 13" won't. Even on the tray table in a coach seat at your favorite budget airline, the 13" is small enough that it works. Both are equally thin, so we are talking 1" wider, 1.5" deeper, and 1/2 pound heavier. Is the extra 1.7" screen and 250,000 pixels worth it? I guess that boils down to a personal choice. If I can have more screen real estate in a form factor that is almost as portable (not to mention better battery life), why spend my hours squinting?
But that's me. YMMV.
Devil's Advocate here. The 11" fits in my man bag (Waterfield Vertigo - Small) and the 13" doesn't. It's just right with the iPearl cover.
Yes. I could get a bigger man bag, but then it is considerably less portable, fits poorly when biking, which means I don't have it with me all the time, and then what is the point? I moved to the iPad for just this reason -- every ounce and every inch counts.
For me.
For other people, it might not matter in the slightest, and why not pay 100 more for the extra size? At any rate, I consider the 11" to be on the extreme end of the spectrum for users who know themselves well, understand the machine, and know their workflows. If you don't, then the safe bet is going to be the 13". As for the 11" being unusable, that's balderdash.
Yes, but we're not talking just bigger screen, the form factor of the device is part of its usability. Now I haven't lived with the 13", but I can certainly say I use the 11" in far more situations than I used my old MBP. I use it kicked back on the couch lying down with it propped up on my lap. I use it in bed in the morning, sometimes a couple hours before getting up. I use it in restaurants on small tables where it can barely fit with the rest of my meal as I eat lunch. What some people talk about strain from looking at the screen all day, I get that strain from _handling_ the machine all day.
I've got a workflow down that I can hardly see how having an extra 132 vertical pixels and 74 horizontal would improve things much. Of course people on the other end of the coin say .6 lbs and an inch deeper footprint etc isn't a big deal. It's almost a wash, physical ergonomics are more important in my use cases, which are mostly away from an actual desk. As it seems we agree, YMMV.
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