12-Inch Retina MacBook Receives Mixed Reviews From Early Adopters

[Michael Goff]

Apple can do anything they want on the hardware side. They could have added 10 USB-C ports if they wanted. That point makes no sense.

Intel stepping up their Core M offerings? In what way? They already offer a wide variety. This statement makes no sense.

Optimize OSX? Based on what metric? Basically some users have a tiny fraction of UI stutter and think OSX isn't optimized. That isn't a metric. The OS is incredibly powerful with a ton of features and still has a minimal drain on battery performance. Could it be improved? Sure. But so could every OS that currently exists. I think the argument is weak at best.

The end result is the MacBook delivers. The only argument anyone ever talks about is the lack of a second USB port. I've had my MacBook for 2 full weeks now. Heavy daily use taking over every task my iMac was doing for me. I've not used the USB port for anything but charging. And I likely never will.

That's a win. I never want to plug anything in my computer if I don't have to. It's an old way of doing things and I look forward to our wireless future.

Intel can make Core M suck less.

Optimize in the way that the Intel HD 4000 has less UI lag on my SP 3 than the 6100 does on Yosemite. Something doesn't seem right about that.

 

[djbuu]

Intel can make Core M suck less.

Optimize in the way that the Intel HD 4000 has less UI lag on my SP 3 than the 6100 does on Yosemite. Something doesn't seem right about that.

"Suck Less." Hmmm. Its clear to me now that you have no idea what the Core M is, how it works, or why it doesn't suck. So let's move on.

On to UI lag. What you want is the UI lag to be fixed, not Yosemite to be optimized. You have generalized a small problem that can but doesn't always occur on any Mac on the market today and think that the OS isn't optimized. Your premise is already fundamentally flawed. UI lag does not mean poorly optimized.

I think the more interesting thing here is that UI lag is an incredibly common issue. Android has suffered from it from the get go. Every iteration of Windows has it. Apple has painstakingly found clever ways to reduce the feeling of UI lag (in a lot of clever ways I might add) for the history of OSX. Suddenly there's an issue in Yosemite that occurs sporadically and the world suddenly as ended.

These arguments are weak.

 

[Michael Goff]

"Suck Less." Hmmm. Its clear to me now that you have no idea what the Core M is, how it works, or why it doesn't suck. So let's move on.

On to UI lag. What you want is the UI lag to be fixed, not Yosemite to be optimized. You have generalized a small problem that can but doesn't always occurs any Mac on the market today and think that the OS isn't optimized. Your premise is already fundamentally flawed. UI lag does not mean poorly optimized.

I think the more interesting thing here is that UI lag is an incredibly common issue. Android has suffered from it from the get go. Every iteration of Windows has it. Apple has painstakingly found clever ways to reduce the feeling of UI lag (in a lot of clever ways I might add) for the history of OSX. Suddenly there's an issue in Yosemite that occurs sporadically and the world suddenly as ended.

These arguments are weak.

Core M is a low powered chip option that is, in most cases, equivalent to what intel offered multiple years ago. The upside is that people can now make fanless devices because it uses less power and produces less heat. However, it still produces more heat and uses more power than ARM chips that are basically as powerful as it is.

Also, yes, UI lag does mean poor optimization. "Every iteration of Windows has it" is laughable. I just pointed out how the SP 3 has no UI lag and an inferior Intel chip. Seriously, when people spend 1300$+ on a laptop, it should JUST WORK. It shouldn't have choppy animations and lagging UI. Seriously, if you're going to try to be pedantic at least be right while you're doing it.

 

[newellj]

Not only this. There is a difference in terms of CPU throttling. Try going 100% CPU for a couple of minutes in an Air and you'll see it operating at around 1.x GHz. MBPs can operate at 2.x GHz for hours.

I expect that a new Macbook will do >2GHz only for a couple of minutes, like when compressing/decompressing files. Most of the time it will behave like a 1.x GHz CPU. Anandtech already shows that its 256GB SSD is not even on par with the 128GB one found in 2015 Airs, which reach the 1GB/s mark.

The new Macbook is a premium netbook, a beautiful and useful browsing/office device. With the bundled adapter and a couple of chargers it will cover most office work use cases and some entertainment. But the Airs can still go further with the faster SSD and processing power. I see people doing serious Photoshop with Airs, but I can't imagine this with the new Macbook. After processing the first dozen of pictures in a batch it will probably start throttling to the base speed.

Compared to a late 2013 rMBP, the 2015 rMB is a lot less far behind on extended file ops than you might think.

 

[Michael Goff]

Compared to a late 2013 rMBP, the 2015 rMB is a lot less far behind on extended file ops than you might think.

I found this funny about that post:

rMB (2015) - Core M 1.2 gHz/8 gb
1:1 preview time: 30:04 minutes
Export time: 31.15 minutes
CPU: ~91*C at ~55%
note on exterior temps measured with IR thermometer (note that these are F, not C):
palm rest: 86*F speaker grill: 100*F bottom/base: 92-97*F - the rMB never got more than a tad over body temperature, in spite of running maxed out for almost half an hour.

rMBP 13.3" (late 2013) - i5 2.4 gHz/8 gb
1:1 preview time: 25:17 minutes
Export time: 25:15 minutes
CPU: ~78*C at ~58%

So the older one is giving off less heat?

 

[Dayv]

Yes, Apple are advertising a VGA adapter, including USB-C thru and an extra USB port, but its not available just yet

Saw one on the rack at my local Apple store yesterday.

 

[brdeveloper]

Compared to a late 2013 rMBP, the 2015 rMB is a lot less far behind on extended file ops than you might think.

Yes, the nMB is on par with first-gen PCIe SSDs, but lags behind current gen Airs and Pros. The main problem about performance is not I/O. If it was, SATAIII SSDs Macs would fall behind the nMB. The problem will be CPU throttling when doing video/image editing.
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EDIT: according to your link, there is only a 20% performance bump between a base rMBP 13" and a base nMB. Seems to be fine... I'd expect something like 50% in longer tasks.

 

[ColdShadow]

So today I went to my local Apple store and played with the new Macbook,it definitely looks nice,very slim and light.
I didn't notice any issues typing on the new keyboard.the track pad was also as expected.
However I really don't understand why they didn't put a second USB-C port,there is enough space under it's USB-C port for accomodating a second one.
It's a big compromise and really limits the machine's functionality.
Also not including a USB-C to USB adapter in box is just stupid.
It's like not including power adapter in box.
And lastly,the price is just wrong.it definitely needs to be cheaper than the Macbook Pro.the CPU is underpowered and this shouldve been reflected in the price.

I'm not in the market for a laptop as I just bought my retina Pro just few months ago,but I would have replaced it with the new Macbook if it was a good value for money and if it had at least 2 ports with free adapter.

Right now it's just too compromised and clearly over priced even by Apple's standards.

 

[drsmithy]

We have to remember, there was literally nothing like the Macbook Air when it first came out. Yes it was pricey, but in that form factor there was nothing like it.

Rubbish.

The Air was a good Ultrabook, but to argue there was "nothing like it" when both Sony and Toshiba had smaller, lighter Ultrabooks on the market for 6 months before it was released is simply wrong.

As you say, what everyone really wanted here was an 11" MBA with a smaller bezel and retina display.

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It needed 2 USB-C ports,free included USB-C adapter and lower price tag.

What's really, really frustrating is that a USB hub/port expander built into the power brick is a blindingly obvious solution.

 

[drsmithy]

But time is marching on. It's the same as when CD-ROM drives were phased out of the iMac. There are going to be people upset because they're comfortable with the previous generation of technology, and then there are going to be others looking forward to taking advantage of the next generation.

Anyone who buys the new retina MacBook and then immediately is looking to buy a full gamut of adapters and dongles is just not choosing the right machine to meets their needs. However, there is going to be a small group of customers who are comfortable with cloud storage and local wireless data transfer who will eagerly welcome the size and weight of this new mighty mite.

This argument might carry some weight if there weren't barely larger machines - including from Apple - that don't have the same connectivity constraints.

The MBP is the MBA with an extra half pound of battery to drive the retina screen.

No it's not. An 11" MBA is substantially smaller than a 13" rMBP.

 

[tentales]

And I'm sure Mr. Benz's customers also would have asked for 'A faster horse.'

the entire analogy is flawed. but keep flogging it.

 

[TEBnewyork]

What hasn't really been mentioned on this thread is the Thunderbolt displays. They haven't been updated in at least 4 years and are seriously overdue for a change....think about the ports on the back of those !!!!!!!!!!

So, if there were a direct connection with the MB's USB -c and ports on the back of a display would some of the whining on this thread go away?

I've been holding off on getting another display for a while as even $799 for a refurb makes me nervous after so long with no updates.

 

[bigandtasty]

I'm enjoying mine tremendously. I haven't touched my iPad in a week.

same here, don't see myself using it much as time goes on.

 

[djbuu]

Core M is a low powered chip option that is, in most cases, equivalent to what intel offered multiple years ago. The upside is that people can now make fanless devices because it uses less power and produces less heat. However, it still produces more heat and uses more power than ARM chips that are basically as powerful as it is.

Also, yes, UI lag does mean poor optimization. "Every iteration of Windows has it" is laughable. I just pointed out how the SP 3 has no UI lag and an inferior Intel chip. Seriously, when people spend 1300$+ on a laptop, it should JUST WORK. It shouldn't have choppy animations and lagging UI. Seriously, if you're going to try to be pedantic at least be right while you're doing it.

Basically all you said was "be right" without actually being right or offering any kind of substance in your post. That's what I think is laughable.

 

[Michael Goff]

Basically all you said was "be right" without actually being right or offering any kind of substance in your post. That's what I think is laughable.

So you think nothing is wrong with paying 1300$+ for a computer that has UI lag with a chip that is stronger than what the Surface Pro 3 has with no lag?

 

[djbuu]

So you think nothing is wrong with paying 1300$+ for a computer that has UI lag with a chip that is stronger than what the Surface Pro 3 has with no lag?

Not at all. I paid almost $1,800 for mine (with taxes, etc). Why? The UI lag isn't a problem with the new MacBook, it's a problem with Yosemite. Even new MacBook Pros have this issue and it's well documented. So in case I wanted to buy something other than an Apple, I wasn't going to "escape" this issue no matter how much I spent on the computer.

Now let's explore the "UI Lag" issue. To call it an issue is making a mountain out of a grain of sand. As I write this, I have 8 apps open, iTunes is updating it's Match content, Photos is downloading the photos I took today and I'm finalizing a presentation I have on Friday. No lag. None what so ever. I'm using Expose to navigate around Launchpad to open my most used apps or spotlight, whichever I feel like at the time.

I'm literally using the so called problem notebook that supposedly has UI lag and I quite literally never experience it. Does it happen? Yes. Happened once for about 2 UI transitions and never happened again. To say any OS is suseptiable to that kind of scenario is absolutely justified. Don't act like Windows immune to these issues. It's normal.

So given everything this notebook does for me, was it worth the price? A resounding yes.

 

[fraslo]

So much variety in opinions here...

Curiosity brought me to the apple store yesterday, just for a few minutes. This thing is unbelievably beautiful, light, tiny... Feels almost fragile in my hands and almost too light.

I am not shopping for one yet (I have rMBP 13"), but my initial thoughts were: I wish Apple would have made it one millimetre thicker (without sacrificing still being very tiny...), to make it a bit sturdier, and so maybe have a room for one more port, and/or still a bit bigger battery, and/or a bit better camera, and/or a stronger processor...

Still, rMB 12 is unbelievable machine!

 

[iLilana]

Its amazing how people can still gush over this product while at the same time saying it is completely useless for them, must like the Apple Watch reviews.

Apple has clearly mastered the perception filter where they can fail to deliver a compelling, or even usable, product, and yet everyone blows their wad trying to write good things about it while even after real life usage they are just not able to find it overly functional or beneficial over another, even previous generation, product.

Call it out for what it is, form over function. Apple is clearly jumping the shark on making things thinner and lighter to the point where products are bending, flexing, and making design compromises on functionality just to support Jony Ive's quest to make everything flat enough to shed an entire dimension and be considered 2D.

If the early adopters are not happy about a product what do you think the housewife that gets one for Christmas this year is going to think when they can't plug into 21 TB of baby and cat photos stored in an external drive and post them on Facebook using this thing?

they could have used MBA guts with this shiny new shell and screen and called it a day. The increase in cost for the lower end computer seems silly to me. One port... silly. Dongle... unnecessary. This is not a good computer. It made more sense to just make an iPad that ran yosemite.

 

[twilo]

So you think nothing is wrong with paying 1300$+ for a computer that has UI lag with a chip that is stronger than what the Surface Pro 3 has with no lag?

Wait.. 8.1 has a very different UI which is much lighter but it doesn't look as pretty. There is no fancy transparency, no crazy animations, etc.

I agree with you, it runs very well on very weak hardware, hardware osx would struggle on, but it compensates for all that..

 

[Michael Goff]

Wait.. 8.1 has a very different UI which is much lighter but it doesn't look as pretty. There is no fancy transparency, no crazy animations, etc.

I agree with you, it runs very well on very weak hardware, hardware osx would struggle on, but it compensates for all that..

My SP 3 is running 10, it has animations and transparencies. Also, turned off the transparencies on my MBP. Expose still lags.

 

[bobob]

what a lot of people here are really saying is that "what works" would be an Air with a retina display, which Apple has chosen not to offer.

The MBP is the MBA with an extra half pound of battery to drive the retina screen.

No it's not. An 11" MBA is substantially smaller than a 13" rMBP.

I'm comparing apples to apples - - a 13" MBA vs a 13" MBP...

 

[maflynn]

My SP 3 is running 10, it has animations and transparencies. Also, turned off the transparencies on my MBP. Expose still lags.

I'm very pleased with my SP3's performance with win8.1 and now win 10TP. Very responsive.

 

[newellj]

Yes, the nMB is on par with first-gen PCIe SSDs, but lags behind current gen Airs and Pros. The main problem about performance is not I/O. If it was, SATAIII SSDs Macs would fall behind the nMB. The problem will be CPU throttling when doing video/image editing.
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EDIT: according to your link, there is only a 20% performance bump between a base rMBP 13" and a base nMB. Seems to be fine... I'd expect something like 50% in longer tasks.

For what I do, a file op that takes roughly half an hour (give or take five minutes) would be a longer task. At least as far as laptops go. I guess there's two take-aways from what I did. First, the difference between the rMBP and the rMB wasn't as bad as a lot of people (who haven't used the rMB) say it is. Second, for something like that, it really makes sense to use a desktop if you can (though it isn't always possible).

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I found this funny about that post:

rMB (2015) - Core M 1.2 gHz/8 gb
1:1 preview time: 30:04 minutes
Export time: 31.15 minutes
CPU: ~91*C at ~55%
note on exterior temps measured with IR thermometer (note that these are F, not C):
palm rest: 86*F speaker grill: 100*F bottom/base: 92-97*F - the rMB never got more than a tad over body temperature, in spite of running maxed out for almost half an hour.

rMBP 13.3" (late 2013) - i5 2.4 gHz/8 gb
1:1 preview time: 25:17 minutes
Export time: 25:15 minutes
CPU: ~78*C at ~58%

So the older one is giving off less heat?

It's not a question of older/newer. We're comparing the rMBP to the rMB. Yes, the rMB's fanless Core M CPU runs hotter than the rMBP's fan-cooled CPU.

----------

they could have used MBA guts with this shiny new shell and screen and called it a day. The increase in cost for the lower end computer seems silly to me. One port... silly. Dongle... unnecessary. This is not a good computer. It made more sense to just make an iPad that ran yosemite.

On the contrary, not only is it a good computer, for people who need a laptop running a desktop operating system that's really portable, it's brilliant.

An iPad that would run Yosemite would be an interesting crossover. Someone else is already running a desktop OS on an ultraportable, so it can be done...

 

[theluggage]

Saw one on the rack at my local Apple store yesterday.

My mistake then - but the VGA and HDMI adapters are still showing 'Ships in 4-6 weeks' on the online store.

I think the USB-C to USB-A dongle is available though.

 

[KPOM]

Intel can make Core M suck less.

Optimize in the way that the Intel HD 4000 has less UI lag on my SP 3 than the 6100 does on Yosemite. Something doesn't seem right about that.

They likely can only do that by increasing the power output, or by changing the architecture. They are doing the latter with Skylake, which should offer a boost to the CPU and GPU. As for ARM chips, they put out similar Geekbench specs, but they don't run existing OSX applications without recompiling or emulating, which would not be a pretty sight.