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13" and 15" MacBook Pros Have a Slower SATA Interface
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I cannot believe apple fanboys are defending apple here
If you don't speak up about this, and take whatever crap apple dishes, then nothing will change.
Apple will keep modifying the laptops to the point where nothing is upgradeable and you fanboys will say yea, i have a new ipod/mac that has no user upgradeable parts and is slower than most pcs but it looks cool.
I love some of the apple designs, I own an iphone 3g, an imac, a umb, a macbook pro 17, and a mac mini.
So yes I will buy something I believe is good.
And I did buy the new macbook pro and I did notice it was slower with my Intel SSD, so I took it back.
If you don't speak up about this, and take whatever crap apple dishes, then nothing will change.
Apple will keep modifying the laptops to the point where nothing is upgradeable and you fanboys will say yea, i have a new ipod/mac that has no user upgradeable parts and is slower than most pcs but it looks cool.
I love some of the apple designs, I own an iphone 3g, an imac, a umb, a macbook pro 17, and a mac mini.
So yes I will buy something I believe is good.
And I did buy the new macbook pro and I did notice it was slower with my Intel SSD, so I took it back.
1.5 Gbit/s is a step backwards. Even the whitebook and old UMB/UMBPs have 3 Gbit/s connections.
That's exactly what some people are doing. Apple also didn't specify this downgrade anywhere on their site.
I would think most of us define ourselves as "consumers" or "users" (or even "pro users")
Ok, so you have no problem with Apple downgrading their hardware and not telling anybody about it. I'll define you as an Apple apologist/fanboy/loyalist/etc.
Whether journaling is (or isn't) the source of the problem (as the author of the article seemed to believe) isn't important. However, OCZ statement re: "Mac OS limitations" and the article's statement that "the Apple-written SATA controller driver gets saturated by a single SSD drive" would seem worthy of a bit more pondering...
If all you want to do is spew emotional rants, maybe a tech forum is not the right place for you? A tech forum ought to be a place for tech-talk, not endless drivel about being "screwed over".
So far it seems all are agreed the new MBP make use of the same chips, therefore apple have not saved any money by capping at 1,5. Right?
There are probably reasons for the capping that are as yet unknown to us, there have been some suggestions on this forum so far, nothing proven, but that apple are "screwing us over" seems the least likely so far.
And what the heck is an "apple loyalist" ???? Do you spend your $$$ loyaly? buy blindly? I would think most of us define ourselves as "consumers" or "users" (or even "pro users"
It's a computer, wife/husband.
It's not as if apple promised at the WWDC that the MBP were 3.0 and now we catch them out and find they're 1,5. Don't like the product? Don't buy it. Or return it. Buy something else. But have the decency to let those forum members who have some tech knowledge propose what may be behind this capping, and let prospective buyers & users read the posts without having to wade through your angry venting. it after all as you pointed out a tech forum, not a crying forum.
No one knew what the SATA speed was until they bought it. Apple didn't advertise it, Einstein.
I've said countless times that I think this isn't intentional on Apple's part...but they need to do something to fix it, because it's unacceptable (how could this oversight even pass testing?) You should read a little more clearly if you think I'm "crying". I just don't like it how people are saying "you should get over it" when they themselves don't even own a new MBP or intend to install an SSD. If you own a new MBP and want to put in a SSD, this is a very big deal.
So far everyone with actual tech knowledge is saying the hardware is there, so I don't even know what you're talking about.
Seeing how I actually spent the money on the new MBP, I have every right to criticize apple. Everyone who is saying this is no big deal has not purchased a new MBP...correlation or causation?
We're the ones that spent 1-2 grand, only to get a very disappointing surprise. I don't think anyone ever considered a SATA downgrade as a distinct possibility when they opened up their new mb pro.
I have the first gen unibody with SSD, so I am not affected, but I sent Apple a feedback anyway because this needs to be corrected for the future. I do not ever plan to buy a computer with a regular HDD again and I do not need the SSD getting bottlenecked because Apple screwed up or got cheap. Seriously, I thought this Macbook Pro upgrade was great. For the past few years, Apple seems to always have an Achilles Heel whenever it releases a new product.
I know it's not a journaling issue. I guess it's time to get ready for Slow Leopard.
These are no longer Pro Machines
Again, these are no longer "Pro" machines!
Integrated graphics on the baseline 15"
No matte option
No ExpressCard Slot
No a slower SATA interface
We lost an extra FireWire Port
We lost the ability to carry/use an extra battery
And we still don't have Blu-Ray
Again, these are no longer "Pro" machines!
Integrated graphics on the baseline 15"
No matte option
No ExpressCard Slot
No a slower SATA interface
We lost an extra FireWire Port
We lost the ability to carry/use an extra battery
And we still don't have Blu-Ray
This is intentional. Apple told me so. Ring them up yourself
Asked why they reply that they are not at liberty to discuss it. Because they are hiding the facts from consumers.
The hitatchi drive in my 13 in mbp was a model made to order from the manufacturer with a SATA 1 interface.
I found the spec on hitatchi web site. It is oem sata 1. They don't sell any sata 1 drives to the public because no consumer is dumb enough to buy last gen stuff.
Asked why they reply that they are not at liberty to discuss it. Because they are hiding the facts from consumers.
The hitatchi drive in my 13 in mbp was a model made to order from the manufacturer with a SATA 1 interface.
I found the spec on hitatchi web site. It is oem sata 1. They don't sell any sata 1 drives to the public because no consumer is dumb enough to buy last gen stuff.
I know it's not a journaling issue. I guess it's time to get ready for Slow Leopard.
But it's interesting to note that the article's author claimed Snow Leopard wouldn't solve the issue. I'd suspect it's a driver that's trottling the chipset in an effort to avoid problems, buying time for a new driver, etc. I'm not a big fan of Nvidia chipsets. Nvidia's geforce 3 chipset on AMD systems had huge problems with over-saturation of the bus which could result in some nasty audio issues if the user was really stressing the system (using it as a Digital Audio Workstation, for example). This particular bus problem could be lessened, or perhaps eliminated in some cases, if video acceleration was tuned down a few notches (via software control) or completely off. Nvidia took months to even acknowledge the problem existed, and never did issue a 100% fix for the problem.
OK Blu-Ray? Have you bought Casino Royale HD from iTunes and yes you play 5.1 Audio from a Mac without 3rd party Apps. You forget about Blu-Ray.
If you go on Apple Chat and ask their Sales/Tech support what the SATA interface is (SATA 1.5Gbps or 3.0Gbps, they will tell you that they can't disclose that information.
Issues with nVidia's chipsets? Are you living my life? It sounds like you have already. Especially with nForce and AMD systems.
That's pretty disturbing actually. I'm going to try now, though
EDIT: Apple chat support is only for itunes and mobile me
Wow, was very close to buying the new 13" MPB, especially since I want to put in a SSD. Never mind, going have to get a dell studio xps 13. Sucks because I'd rather have OSX on a laptop, but whatever.
From my earlier comments regarding the downgrade to SATA I: [....being able to replace the HDD and use a current industry standard, (soon to be SSD) either by necessity or choice, is. At this time in the market, SSD is promising a 100% increase in throughput that will soon make HDDs obsolete in very near future, this is not "arbitrary." Third, specs and innovation are what drive (no pun intended) the market. Whether it's Mhz, battery life, or RAM a computer performs only as strong as its weakest link. For Apple to DOWNGRADE the SATA controller from SATA II to SATA I (Freaking $300 netbooks do SATA II)it creates a level of built in obsolesce that is unacceptable. Finally, "a week ago" an enduser could buy a MBP that supported SATA II and thus the latest SSDs that the entire industry will be to transitioning to. Today, with Apples DOWNGRADED SATA I controller he/she can not.
Even if this wont make a difference for non-SSD users, apple should have known that people would find this stuff out, and would post it on the web and there would be an outrage. I highly doubt that this was an oversight. Apple has been in the game long enough to not make a mistake like this. Its surely by design.
The tech industry is a game. Show a weakness and it will be exploited by competitors. Bad move Apple! sheesh...
The tech industry is a game. Show a weakness and it will be exploited by competitors. Bad move Apple! sheesh...
Which I think is a good example of how to make use of this and other tech-forums: wait and read the reviews before buying.
I see no reason to buy the newest just after it comes out. That's what I meant by asking you: why be a loyalist? Apple are not a charity that needs support, they're filthy rich. Surely you can wait a few weeks before buying?
It's just good consumer sense.
Then when these shortcomings are revealed on the various forums and hardware-test-pages - and I completely agree: it's a shortcoming and I won't buy till it's fixed - put pressure on apple and let them know they won't sell the computers till they attempt to sell us what we need.
I - and I presume you and most of the contributers on this thread - have already sent a message to the apple feedback page tonight. they should receive a flood in the morning and get back to the drawing board.
As you see: I completely agree with you - it IS a big deal. Working out why they've done this is important, getting them to explain it and fix it. and supporting anybody who bought the machine too early to bring it back. let apple know we're not amused. but so many people on this forum seem to find it constructive/amusing/useful to rant and scream "shame", "they're ripping us off" etc.
They are a corporation, not a non-profit research group. treat them as they treat their clients, suppliers etc. i am sure that is for eg. samsung delivers a shipload or flash memory that is not up to scratch, they don't moan "shame", "typical samsung, they screwed us"... they send it back and demand good product.
As I said I wont buy the new machine till this is fixed because i definitely want the fastest possible transfer from an ssd into ram (for video streams during theatre work), and i've spent all night trying to research this. and got frustrated trying to find some "real" tech info buried under layers of useless, and counterproductive complaining. of which i make myself guilty here too i guess.
so let's make sure apple put on sale the product we need, put the pressure on them, anybody who already bought the machines, send them back. good morning, take care & good luck!
But NTFS _is_ a journaling filesystem. They just call it transactional. Same thing essentially.
Why is that unacceptable? The price of an MBP (or an MB* 13" even) is down hundreds of dollars. What is the problem? Did you honestly think there wouldn't be a catch? The fact that the user can't remove the battery himself anymore, is partly outweighed by the extended charge-time along with the multiplication of battery cycles (RAM is over-rated, btw). So what is there left to outweigh the FW, SD-card-reader and the $$$ price-fall? You do the math.
With Apple as with other corporations in computer industry, you get what you pay for.
Yes, it is absolutely a FREAKING NIGHTMARE!!!
LOL.. Jesus Christ, talk about drama queens. You people are hilarious. I'm willing to be not a single one of you would actually NOTICE the difference between SATA I/II, even with the fastest SSD available. Go outside, get some ****ing fresh air, and some perspective.
Hey guys, interesting thought, does anyone know someone with a Dell Studio XPS 13? That system uses the nVidia 9400m chipset, and it has firewire, USB 2.0, expresscard, and an 8-in-1 card reader. I wonder if it is also limited to SATA I. If it is, then we could be more sure that the card reader and firewire are the problem. If not, then that would basically prove there's no hardware component to this problem, since nothing else on the system has changed!
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