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13" and 15" MacBook Pros Have a Slower SATA Interface

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ddTaylor said:
Why do you negate EVERY argument made by the OP? I couldn't care-less about the internal battery lasting LONGER as is might die when you NEED IT MOST!
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Is this the "We need replaceable batteries!"-argument? That argument is stupid. You do not NEED replaceable batteries. What you need is longer battery-life. Replaceable batteries are just means to an end, not the end of means.

How could you get longer battery-life without replaceable batteries? How about external battery-pack? Seriously?

You CANNOT dismiss the needs of others as unwarranted just because you do not need/want the features omitted.
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As far as the battery goes, their needs are not logical. They are so fixated at the means of getting more battery life (by replacing batteries) that they have forgotten the reason why they want to replace batteries in the first place. It's the reason that is important, not the method you reach it. And you can get longer battery-life through other means besides replacing batteries.
 
ddTaylor said:
Please be considerate and realize that there are those who have used EACH AND EVERY FEATURE you have dismissed as they were or currently are options that users have come to count on.

The selfish nature of those in the 'younger' generation is scary - most, but not all - are not capable of EMPATHY (that means putting yourself in the position of others and trying to understand their thoughts and feelings regarding a certain situation or situations therefore gaining insight on those who may differ from you). You are the generation that is going to take care of me when I get older as I am sure I am at least twice the age of the average user.

D
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Interesting point, and I too am older than most here, I guess.
And yet I interpret today's messy thread here quite differently.
It seems to me that the 'younger' generation has a very twisted sense of entitlement, and that many posters here seem to believe they are involved in an emotional relationship with a company which makes hardware and software. Apple are a company, not a family. S Jobs is a hard-nosed salesman, not a guru or wonder-doctor.
Apple and Microsoft are companies not football teams, it seems to me that many posters on this and other forums get confused and turn into fans of a company.

I've used apple since the mid 90ies, but also used amigas, ataris, pcs, silicon graphics. they are all machines, tools, not pets or loved ones, and none ever deliver everything that everybody needs, that's reality. But many here seem to think of S Jobs as a surrogate father or santa claus, throw money and adoration at him, and are disappointed when he does not offer exactly what they want & expect, then sound like spoiled children, whining on a forum, believing there is something constructive about endlessly posting "we've been screwed again".

there is something worrying about grown people, acting like teenage fans, crying when a hardware manufacturer changes its product line and doesn't tell the whole truth in advertising. wonder what their relationships with wives, husbands and children are like. and I hope I'm not relying on any of these people when something really bad happens. pandemics, hurricanes, whatever. They'd fall over at the slightest breeze.
oh well, no generation fully understands the next generation I guess.
Have a good day
 
Ok...everyone that bought the new MBP knew they weren't getting a replaceable battery or an express card slot...let's focus on the "important" feature we didn't know we were getting...
 
There is no excuse for this. As someone who just bought the 2.8ghz on tuesday, I'm quite pissed off. SSD's is the way of the future and a vital part of future updates and my plans for my new laptop. I was thrilled that I now can have 8gb, but I much rather get full use out of the Intel SSD drive I've been planning to buy. I'm not going to return my machine because in all other aspects I love it and there is no alternative (I've been a Mac user since 10.1 came out and there is no turning back).

But there is no excuse and Apple better make it up for us. What would be the best way to make a complaint about this? Let's get heard.
 
Evangelion said:
You mean "previous version of this generation"?
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Yes, the October 2008 one.

Evangelion said:
Maybe that's because there's not that much to upgrade to? Intel, Apple and everyone else are waiting for Arrendale-CPU's that are released in Q4/Q1. Up until that we will get quite minor speed-bumbs in the CPU-area at best.
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By that I meant the CPU hasn't gone up or down in the Intel mobile lineup in terms of price or positioning. Intel has speed bumped their CPUs, and Apple has upgraded their CPUs to match the bumps.
 
Chupa Chupa said:
That's just a cheap excuse worthy of a 3rd tier PC maker w/o a decent R&D department. We are talking about Apple here which is a multi-billion dollar company with a rep for being a leader in technology. There is no excuse for intentionally making (and we don't know if this is intentional) a "pro" machine in 2009 that is limited to SATA 1.5Gb. None. So I hope you are correct and Apple is quick to fix. They should at least acknowledge in the mean time, but they won't.
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Im not necessarily quick to jump and defend apple, but consider this, on the PC side, getting SSD's to work flawlessly with Windows XP is a chore, lots of registry tweaks, ssd flushing, etc, and why? Because Windows XP wasn't designed with SSD's in mind ( it is a very old OSX). Considering an HDD user wont "feel" the difference between a 1.5Gb and 3.0Gb connection its not a big deal, even on a pro machine. Its only a concern with High End/High Speed SSD users, and hell, wouldn't you rather be able to use your SSD without any hicups (albeit slower) than at Full speed, with freezing and crashing? I fully believe that we will see a new driver that fixes any possible saturation / throughput issues with SSD's and then a firmware upgrade for the bus.
 
Tompkinson said:
there is something worrying about grown people, acting like teenage fans, crying when a hardware manufacturer changes its product line and doesn't tell the whole truth in advertising. wonder what their relationships with wives, husbands and children are like. and I hope I'm not relying on any of these people when something really bad happens. pandemics, hurricanes, whatever. They'd fall over at the slightest breeze.
oh well, no generation fully understands the next generation I guess.
Have a good day
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Maybe when these college students/teenagers spend 2 summers saving up for a top of the line notebook, only to see that it isn't the powerhouse as originally advertised, I think they should a little upset. And stop making assumptions, it's not fair to evaluate people's life experiences based on a message board.

BTW: the real "fans" of Apple are the ones who are defending the SATA downgrade. Blind fanboys wouldn't be fazed by downgrades. ;)
 
OllyW said:
The MBP I looked at was the top model and it was SATA 1.5.
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Sigh... It is not so much that I can't complain as 3 Gb/s doesn't seem really necessary at the moment but being future proof is something and I am sure the last word on the speed of SSDs had not been spoken yet. I easily could imagine that in a year or two SSDs speeds might starting to hitting the roof of even SATA II.
 
L0s7man said:
You're wrong.

In 2.66Ghz MBP, apple used this CPU:
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLGE4

Now they moved to this:
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB3S

And you're telling me there's no difference?
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The previous 2.67 GHz MacBook Pro was more expensive than the current 2.67 GHz MacBook Pro. Why are people comparing different models? By that logic I could say the 13" MacBook Pro was a CPU downgrade since the new 2.27 GHz is slower than the old 2.4 GHz.
 
timon said:
I'd suggest that everyone take a chill pill and wait till some official word comes out.
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This is Apple. They're not exactly known for being forthcoming when it comes to acknowledging things people aren't happy with about their products. They are far far far more likely to say nothing whatsoever. I hope I'm wrong, really, but if you look at their record. If they acknowledge anything at all it's usually by a silent product update, or next major revision (though they haven't even bothered then with the MacBook Air screen issues). Unless something's exploding or catching fire I'd be (pleasantly) surprised to see them issuing any comment on this at all.

Re the battery life thing. I don't personally know about this, but friends who design and build hardware from scratch (i.e. not just slotting together components lego-style) say that it's likely the SATA2 that Apple no longer appear to be using would actually reduce power consumption due to the greater efficiency of NCQ and reduced time things have to be powered up.
 
deconstruct60 said:
When people draw conclusions and then construct arguments to support their conclusion, it is often pointless to present a case that deduces from the constraints that Apple followed if worked forward in making constraint trade-offs.
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This has to be the best statement I have seen on MacRumors. I think.

Meanwhile, this story is hitting all of the trade reports this morning, so I expect that Apple will have to make a public comment soon.
 
akutz said:
I'm just going out on a limb here and wondering if this bump down to 1.5 is in preparation for Snow Leopard. I wonder if Snow Leopard has some implementation of load-based disk I/O similar to SpeedStep for processors. With all of the changes in the Snow Leopard kernel, along with Grand Central, this seems probable.

--
-a
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Ok then, what will happen with Snow Leopard and those of us with 3.0?
 
Would it be possible to use the SATA2 kernel extensions from an older 15" unibody mac and transfer them to the newer 13" / 15" model.

I have access to both laptops if someone can give me some idea of what to do.
 
Eh...

So I popped my 320GB Scorpio Black (7200rpm, 16MB cache, SATA II) into my new 13" MBP last night and it's working pretty damn fast writing all my files to disk from backups. :)

I haven't run any VM's yet but so far the machine seems to be working well, even with the 1.5Gb/s interface.
 
Sata 1.5 and no express card slot is fantastic news!!! It just increased the resale value of my original 2.8 Unibody Macbook Pro when its comes time to sell.

Thanks Apple!
 
bytethese said:
So I popped my 320GB Scorpio Black (7200rpm, 16MB cache, SATA II) into my new 13" MBP last night and it's working pretty damn fast writing all my files to disk from backups. :)

I haven't run any VM's yet but so far the machine seems to be working well, even with the 1.5Gb/s interface.
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Why wouldn't it work just fine? :confused::confused: It doesn't break max SATA I speeds. Only SSD speeds are affected by the downgrade....
 
Chupa Chupa said:
1) It's not about the buyer, it's about the maker's logic, either Apple's or the Builders. You are confusing the buyer's buying power w/ the seller's marketing logic. My comment only went to the seller's marketing logic. I suspect most single people w/o kids would not be too interested in a 5000 sq ft house unless they were of the likes of Huge Hefner.
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thanks for pointing this out, but I am not confusing anything, I am very clear about it. I am only interested in the buyer's power, the seller's marketing logic is of absolutely no interest to me. That's their 'problem', (by all accounts they're pretty good at it. not doing too badly despite recession i seem to remember) Why would we convene here to talk about Apple marketing logic? I come here to inform myself of upcoming products/rumors etc, and - as in today's case - to learn of problems before i buy. i certainly do not come here to criticize or improve apple's marketing logic. I don't care about it. do you? (serious question)

Chupa Chupa said:
2) As for removing the ExpressCard slot, c'mon. They replaced it with a lesser SD slot. There was no logical reason except maybe to save a few bucks and stoop down to the PC's makers level. The ExpressCard is multi-functional and belongs on a "pro" machine. Apple charges a premium for it's products. That premium should be based on the product being of a higher quality product compared to it's peers, not past reputation or good PR.
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Ok, (to speak of marketing logic for a change :) ) --> I have never used this slot, most of the people I know who did use it (music & video production) moved to firewire a long time ago. and I really doubt that apple would save the cost of said slot, (perhaps max 1$?) at the expense of losing a lot of customers. Strategically they are not that dumb, I'm sure they make mistakes, I guess they think it's not worth including anymore. and this is part of the computer game.

I do understand if people are upset, if people move to another platform that suits them better. That's fine. What I find preposterous is the whining and shouting. Instead of a rational approach to the tools we need to get our jobs done, (eg, avalaunching apple's feedback page, coordinated jamming of their phone lines, refusing to buy, returning if unsatisfied, etc) I see a crowd of squawking cry-babies, who seem to think there is some point in making even cooler disparaging remarks about the new laptops. Upset is fine, but coming here to vent the rage is pointless and pretty infantile

take care,
 
iMacmatician said:
The previous 2.67 GHz MacBook Pro was more expensive than the current 2.67 GHz MacBook Pro. Why are people comparing different models? By that logic I could say the 13" MacBook Pro was a CPU downgrade since the new 2.27 GHz is slower than the old 2.4 GHz.
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Ok, look:

1. You see a 2.66 Ghz MBP and it sots XYZ
2. Apple kenote; happily announce "We've cut the price"
3. You go to Apple Store and see 2.66 Ghz MBP for $300 or whatever less.

4. You read the fine print and you realize that it has LESS GPU MEMORY, HALF THE CACHE, now the SATA thingy and so on and so on.

Is that not dodgy? The price difference on the CPU itself is 100usd. No wonder they can sell it cheaper; it is cheaper!

So, they didn't cut the price; they've got cheaper stuff to put into so the price is lower.

That's quite different thing from cutting the price!
 
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