If you look at the specs for any laptop on Apple's web site it clearly doesn't stats that the drives are SATA 1.5G, either.
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13" and 15" MacBook Pros Have a Slower SATA Interface
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If you look at the specs for any laptop on Apple's web site it clearly doesn't stats that the drives are SATA 1.5G, either.
It is cheaper, it has half the cache; the only mitigating circumstance it's that it generates less heat 25W vs 35W. But yearh: "We've cut the price*"
<very very very very small print>
* we've put much cheaper CPU
Now you need to get the top of the line, 2.8Ghz to get simple things like 512MB for GPU and 6MB cache; seriously, 256 MB on GPU? Are we back in time few years?
Where's the frickin 1 GB option? It's RAM; RAM is cheap.
Apple = LOL
I think I'll just go with Sony; Sony sux too, but now it seems it sux less than Apple does.
According to Apple, "less than single-digit percentage of our users used it"....
Yes, there are people out there who need it, That's why 17" MBP still has it. But fact is that it's a niche-feature.
EDIT: nice = niche
I don't think that the CPU's are cheaper.... My MBP has 2.4GHz C2D with 4MB of cache, and I bet that CPU cost about as much as these newer CPU's do. And my CPU would lose in performance. It just happens that the newer C2D's don't need as much cache since it has beefier access to the RAM:
Besides, they didn't move to 3M of cache with these latest updates, they already had 3M of cache
<very very very very small print>
* we've put much cheaper CPU
...that is still faster than the more expensive CPU we offered a while back.
Cut the crap. 256MB is the low-end of VRAM on dedicated GPU's. Few years ago it was the top end. I should know since my top-of-the-line 15" MacBook Pro from 2007 has 256MB of VRAM. You make it sound like there has been no progress, but there has. The amount of VRAM has basicly doubled.
Not all RAM is. VRAM is more expensive than normal RAM is.
Go right ahead. Enjoy your "Sony Style".
Reading all the replies by Apple apologists makes me wonder - why are they doing it ? Is it some need to 'belong' to the Cult Of Apple ? Isn't it possible to like a company as much as is deserved ? ie When Apple or MS or Sony make bad products - call them out. And praise them when they do deliver good products ?
But the fanboys here - a small but very vocal percentage - seem to be forgetting one thing: It's a few dissatisfied owners today, people who acted in good faith and placed orders for the new MBPs. But one day, it will be the fanboys turn, when Apple shafts them over something or the other. At that point they'll probably suddenly turn into Apple-haters and claim loudly to have been shafted and demand sympathy. Sadly, that's how they are
But the fanboys here - a small but very vocal percentage - seem to be forgetting one thing: It's a few dissatisfied owners today, people who acted in good faith and placed orders for the new MBPs. But one day, it will be the fanboys turn, when Apple shafts them over something or the other. At that point they'll probably suddenly turn into Apple-haters and claim loudly to have been shafted and demand sympathy. Sadly, that's how they are
They probably used the same research "methods" to conclude that firewire wasn't needed on some models.
It can't be that Apple removes features from the MacBook Pro 15" inch line since they first introduced the Unibody and now they are going back 4 years of Hard Disk Interface evolution. For all who want to step forward and show their disappointment about the recent developments, see the petition link below.
That makes about as much sense as a home builder saying his 5000 sq ft. mini-mansions have cable jacks in all rooms. However, his 1500 sq ft. bungalows have no cable jacks so if you need cable jacks buy the mini-mansion, even if you are single w/o children.
There are people who find the 15" the sweet spot of the line - not to big to travel, not to small to work with; video out if a bigger monitor is needed. It's not possible these users have no use for an ExpressCard slot? I know what Apple said -- but the logic is flawed and clearly bent for Apple to justify removing the slot.
OK. So they removed the slot and told us why. That brings us back to the SATA issue. Don't you think Apple should at least explain why previous versions had SATA II and the newest version does not just as they explained why ExpressCard went away?
HaHa... Apple doesn't care about poor folks.. they are now selling them trash laptops. Get some money folks and get a real computer... a 17" MacBook Pro.
Sorry, your argument sucks. I like the 13" for the size and weight. 4.5lbs is easier on the shoulder during a 2 hours each way when commuting than a 6.6lb 17" MBP. Yes it's a little slower, but for the size and weight, it's fine. Plus, my employer lets me upgrade the ram and hard drives on it.
At this point, I think I am pretty much maxed on my (2+ year old) 2.16GHz Macbook. It's got 3GB ram and 320GB hard drive. Not much room let for improvement. I used this thing everyday for 12-16 hours a day.
Worked great, but feeling out the management here to see if they are willing to get me a new 13" Macbook Pro w/ 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive. Least then, it can be upgraded to 8GB of ram in a year or two once 4GB DDR3 so-dimm module prices are a 1/4 or 1/8 of what they are today. I see 3-4 years out of that model.
As for my old Macbook, it will likely live on for at least 3 more years in the hands of someone with significantly less demanding requirements.
If that is his decision, fine. No one is forcing a "single w/o children" to buy any of his buildings right?
You make it sound as if there is a devious plan hidden beneath the flawed and bent logic behind removing the slot. Probably they said: "This slot is not going to sell enough computers to justify itself" and got rid of it. Guess they say this about lots of features. Do you think getting rid of the Pismos's two expansion bays was a big mistake, justified using flawed and bent logic? think today's MBP are less Pro because they lack plastic expansion bays ?
yes, absolutely. that would be very welcome. Then some folks here can return to being adults and stop sounding like little kids who've had their ice cream taken away by a bully. A bully they usually never tire of throwing money at without researching the product first.
But there's very little NEED for either cable-jacks or ExpressCard. ExpressCard is needed for some audio and video-work. And people who do those most likely need as big screen as possible, so it makes sense to keep it in the 17-incher.
Fact is that there are very little things that absolutely NEED ExpressCard-slot. Those that do need it, can get the 17" MBP. For everything else, there are altnernative ways to get the job done.
Of course Apple can't offer every single combination of their hardware that will satisfy everyone 100%. They need to find a middle-ground somehow that will be as useful as possible for as many users as possible. And you can bet that Apple has detailed information regarding use-patters on their hardware. They don't make changes like this on a whim. They probably noticed that most people never touch the ExpressCard-slot, and of those that do, half use it for cardreader.
I have no idea. My bet is that it's a firmware-problem, since the hardware obviously supports it.
The more I read these discussions, the more obvious it becomes that people just need to have something to whine about. When unibody-MacBook was released, people whined because it lacks FireWire. Now Apple brought FireWire back to it. And they increased the RAM-limit to 8GB. And they added a card-reader. And they increased the specs. And they increased battery-life. And they improved the screen. And they lowered the price. So Apple fixed the #1 complaint people had, and added a lot of new stuff while lowering the price. So all is fine, right? Wrong. People find something to complain about EVERY SINGLE TIME. This time it was the lack of audio in-port and integrated battery. And now they found another point to whine about: the SATA-bus. When the fact remains that all three of those complaints are very, very minor when compared to the things that Apple added.
You can be damn sure that if the MacBook still had audio-in port, had SATA 3.0 and removable battery, people would still be whining like there's no tomorrow.
same thing with other MacBooks, more or less. It just boggles the mind. If Apple released a laptop that was made from gold-pressed latinum, had a CPU and GPU that ran inside a warp-bubble and used giga-quad datacrystals for storage and came with a personal holodeck, people would still whine. "No, this is the worst laptop Apple has ever made, that's it, I'm going back to PC's!".
Apple products are hardly cheap for what (hardware) you get. Seems a bit silly they just didn't include a nice looking, flush card reader for the slot - probably cost them a few cents from one of their chinese factories.
They haven't bought those this far, why would they suddenly start buying them? Besides, it adds complexity (one more gizmo to carry around).
SpeedStep for Disk I/O?
I'm just going out on a limb here and wondering if this bump down to 1.5 is in preparation for Snow Leopard. I wonder if Snow Leopard has some implementation of load-based disk I/O similar to SpeedStep for processors. With all of the changes in the Snow Leopard kernel, along with Grand Central, this seems probable.
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I'm just going out on a limb here and wondering if this bump down to 1.5 is in preparation for Snow Leopard. I wonder if Snow Leopard has some implementation of load-based disk I/O similar to SpeedStep for processors. With all of the changes in the Snow Leopard kernel, along with Grand Central, this seems probable.
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The last-gen MacBook Pro already used 25 W CPUs (the high-end used 35 W, but so does the high-end of this gen).
256 MB was low-end in the previous generation too.
Things are no different in the CPU area compared to October 2008. The $1999 model went up 267 MHz instead of 133 MHz, but that was because it didn't have a 133 MHz CPU bump in March.
It's possible to stay still or upgrade and still be relatively worse compared to the full range of hardware, but it didn't happen this time.
For the $2499 pricepoint, now you get a larger display while not backtracking on CPU speed and CPU position.
Code:
October 2008:
Product Price CPU L2 GPU VRAM
------- $1699
MBP 15 $1999 2.40 GHz 3 MB 9600M 256 MB
MBP 15 $2499 2.53 GHz 6 MB 9600M 512 MB
MBP 17 $2799 2.53 GHz 6 MB 9600M 512 MB
Two 133 MHz bumps from Intel later...
June 2009:
Product Price CPU L2 GPU VRAM
MBP 15 $1699 2.53 GHz 3 MB 9400M 256 MB
MBP 15 $1999 2.67 GHz 3 MB 9600M 256 MB
MBP 15 $2299 2.80 GHz 6 MB 9600M 512 MB
MBP 17 $2499 2.80 GHz 6 MB 9600M 512 MBI have to disagree, you will notice the difference with a 7200rpm hd, just use the 5400 for 2 months and then replace it with a 7200 , not as big a difference as going to ssd but you will notice improvement for sure, also shorter batterij life of course ;-).
Why do you negate EVERY argument made by the OP? I couldn't care-less about the internal battery lasting LONGER as is might die when you NEED IT MOST! My helicopter (R/C) I fly has used Lithium Polymer batteries for years now - and there is NO REASON they could not re-design the enclosure for the battery housing and make it replaceable. So the battery lasts for 6-hours REAL-WORLD but allows for user replacement on the fly? Why so hard? No matte display option is a HUGE AND EGREGIOUS OMISSION (that means very BIG oversight - that should save you the time to look it up, if you need to)!
You CANNOT dismiss the needs of others as unwarranted just because you do not need/want the features omitted. I am an audio engineer and I WILL NOT upgrade until a matte display option is available again - if they chose not to offer that option I will continue with my '07 MBP matte, WMB and PB G4 and my new hackbook with 10.5.7. It has what I need and works 100% - I might go with the same spec'd Dell 13" and add the anti-glare screen cover to THAT and save $400.
Please be considerate and realize that there are those who have used EACH AND EVERY FEATURE you have dismissed as they were or currently are options that users have come to count on.
The selfish nature of those in the 'younger' generation is scary - most, but not all - are not capable of EMPATHY (that means putting yourself in the position of others and trying to understand their thoughts and feelings regarding a certain situation or situations therefore gaining insight on those who may differ from you). You are the generation that is going to take care of me when I get older as I am sure I am at least twice the age of the average user.
D
I mean no disrespect to you, sir or ma'am...but are familiar, with. punCtuation 'n propper; use of it<>?
See how hard that was to read? Please, use the English dialect and rules for writing (such as punctuation and proper context) so we can better understand your drivel.
D
I think most of you all need to just calm the hell down for a second and start using some logic.
Apple's Sata drivers weren't written to handle the high speed of SSD's, that kinda speed causes saturation issues, which means you will experience problems, so the quick and dirty solution is to limit the bus to 1.5, instead of 3.0, think of it as throttling. At 1.5 you cant hit the speeds that cause issues and everything is gravy. Chances are this is something that will be fixed with a new driver that can handle the speed, and a firmware update to allow the bus to work at 3.0 since we already know its hardware capable. When? Possibly upon snow leopards release, maybe when 10.5.8 drops, who knows.
Apple's Sata drivers weren't written to handle the high speed of SSD's, that kinda speed causes saturation issues, which means you will experience problems, so the quick and dirty solution is to limit the bus to 1.5, instead of 3.0, think of it as throttling. At 1.5 you cant hit the speeds that cause issues and everything is gravy. Chances are this is something that will be fixed with a new driver that can handle the speed, and a firmware update to allow the bus to work at 3.0 since we already know its hardware capable. When? Possibly upon snow leopards release, maybe when 10.5.8 drops, who knows.
1) It's not about the buyer, it's about the maker's logic, either Apple's or the Builders. You are confusing the buyer's buying power w/ the seller's marketing logic. My comment only went to the seller's marketing logic. I suspect most single people w/o kids would not be too interested in a 5000 sq ft house unless they were of the likes of Huge Hefner.
2) As for removing the ExpressCard slot, c'mon. They replaced it with a lesser SD slot. There was no logical reason except maybe to save a few bucks and stoop down to the PC's makers level. The ExpressCard is multi-functional and belongs on a "pro" machine. Apple charges a premium for it's products. That premium should be based on the product being of a higher quality product compared to it's peers, not past reputation or good PR.
That's just a cheap excuse worthy of a 3rd tier PC maker w/o a decent R&D department. We are talking about Apple here which is a multi-billion dollar company with a rep for being a leader in technology. There is no excuse for intentionally making (and we don't know if this is intentional) a "pro" machine in 2009 that is limited to SATA 1.5Gb. None. So I hope you are correct and Apple is quick to fix. They should at least acknowledge in the mean time, but they won't.
Here is the spec for the mcp79 ahci... on page 15 you will find in bits 23:20 the encoding for the interface speed 1.5g/3.0g/6.0g. Looks fixable in firmware.
http://download.intel.com/technology/serialata/pdf/rev1_3.pdf
What are the chances an Apple Store would accept a return and either not charge you a restocking fee or reduce it due to being upset that the SATA was downgraded and it was impossible to discover it unless you looked in the system profiler, and was information not on Apple's website?
You mean "previous version of this generation"? The MBP's they just released were more or less just refreshes of the existing models. True. 13" MBP was a big change, but other than that they were basically refreshes. Besides, not only were the specs bumbed, but they lowered the prices. They obviously thought that in this economic climate, it makes more sense to make the machines more affordable, than it is to keep the prices high while increase the specs (well, they did increase the specs as well). And I can't say that I blame them for that.
Maybe that's because there's not that much to upgrade to? Intel, Apple and everyone else are waiting for Arrendale-CPU's that are released in Q4/Q1. Up until that we will get quite minor speed-bumbs in the CPU-area at best.
And besides CPU's, other specs were improved as well. Like RAM, HD's, battery and the like. And even in the CPU's there has been changes, even though raw clock-speed hasn't gone up that much. Bus-speeds have gone up quite a bit for example.
I have a 2.4GHz MBP from 2007, and I have no reason to upgrade. The speed between current models and my machine aren't that big. But that does NOT mean that Apple's current machines are outdated. Far from it. I have promised myself that I will wait till next summer at least before I upgrade, so I'm on a 3-year upgrade-cycle. By then we will have Arrendales, and they bring with them quite a big speed-bumbs.
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