And they know it because of spyware software that monitors the usage of EC?
It's a funny statement to make. My guess is they've surveyed some 1000 people and that's it.
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13" and 15" MacBook Pros Have a Slower SATA Interface
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And they know it because of spyware software that monitors the usage of EC?
It's a funny statement to make. My guess is they've surveyed some 1000 people and that's it.
If I'd order a 13" or 15" MBP WITH SSD, would it still have the 1.5 SATA Interface or the 3.0?
Thanks
Thanks
Currently 1.5, but the general opinion is they're capable of 3.0 and capped by Apple.
Show me another company that actually downgrades/cripples a PRO line on purpose. This has to unintentional, otherwise it doesn't make any sense. It might be marketing not to include the latest whatever component but it isn't marketing to actually downgrade the component for whatever reasons. That's what used car dealership companies do. Is this the iCar?
Haha i was just posting the same but anyway there is no exception for the companies. That's the concept.
are you kidding? from 13" Unibody MacBook with faster Sata to 13" MacBook Pro with slower Sata and a better screen, better battery, SDCard Slot, FW800, lower price is like 5 long steps forward, one baby step back...
hey, i got a Unibody MacBook that's about a month old, anyone wanna trade for the new 13" MacBook Pro? *waves it in front of you* it's got faster SATA!!!!!
pfff... bunch of complainers!
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3553
Maxes out at 240 Mbit/s ( 30 MBps) . Well within USB 2.0 range (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#eSATA_in_comparison_to_other_external_buses).
Throw in the fact that it is right next to the other USB slots and even more likely. Finally, in light of the fact that "overkill" was not a design guideline elsewhere, why would it be so for the SD slot?
The SD slot is more likely another excuse to merge continued thrashing on ExpressCard issue into this thread. As if this one wasn't hot enough.
Unless they are now ADC member only, curiously Apple has stopped writing Developer notes on the hardware:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/AppleHardware-date.html
The support specs are very nonspecific. Just say SATA and drive sizes.
http://support.apple.com/kb/SP544
Actually, no.
What usually takes time is folders with gazillions of tiny little files. When the speed of the drive is limited by head movement (usually around 10 ms, enough to read half a Megabyte on a slowish drive). Lots of the time ninety percent or more of the time is actually spent on moving the drive heads and not reading data.
Just open Activity Monitor and watch it.
Sorry but your logic is flawed. ExpressCard is not dead nor is it old technology. Replacing ExpressCard with SDslot MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. MBP is for power users...
ExpressCard allows people to put in for example, E-Sata card which in hindsight the new MBP should have.
By the time they put in an E-Sata mini port, USB 3.0 would be out and MBP would still be on USB 2.0 =)
Or they could remove all firewire and put in 4 USB ports instead =)
Try to get to System Profiler and then compared ครับ.
Between
MB 13" Unibody Early 2009.
With
MBP 13" Unibody Mid 2009.
The same S-ATA Product is Nvidia MCP79 AHCI.
but the program tell it tell the difference Speed between the MB with 3.0 Gigabit and the MBP with 1.5 Gigabit.
Between
MB 13" Unibody Early 2009.
With
MBP 13" Unibody Mid 2009.
The same S-ATA Product is Nvidia MCP79 AHCI.
but the program tell it tell the difference Speed between the MB with 3.0 Gigabit and the MBP with 1.5 Gigabit.
HaHa... Apple doesn't care about poor folks.. they are now selling them trash laptops. Get some money folks and get a real computer... a 17" MacBook Pro. 
Don't flame on me now... it's the truth. The 13' and 15" models for the price... sucks ass. Only low end mac users would think their getting a bargain for those POS.
Don't flame on me now... it's the truth. The 13' and 15" models for the price... sucks ass. Only low end mac users would think their getting a bargain for those POS.nope.
Maybe not, but it was technology that no-one used.
They replaced one feature with a feature that I guarantee will see A LOT more use than the ExpressCard ever did. Doesn't it make sense to replace unused features with features that people will actually use?
I am surprised to see how passionate people are about this issue.
I have the new 13" and it is the fastest notebook i have ever had.
I don't have an ssd version, but a 7200 rpm drive installed after purchase.
I agree that the new gen ssd drives are getting extremely fast, but how can you get a laptop to read/write at such a fast rate continually with just 1 drive?
3 things to stress the interface, transfers from other devices, copying files locally and application usage.
Lets look at the interfaces into the Macbook Pro.
A laptop with a single drive is a bit like an island, in that there is no interface into it which is going to stress the 150MB per second write/speed.
ie Gigabit, dvd, firewire 800, wireless network and USB are all much slower than the Sata 1 interface.
If these laptops had an external e-sata port running at Sata 2, 300MBps and you plugged in an external SSD, then maybe you could see a performance bottleneck.
So next is copying files locally. How often do you copy a very large folder and paste it onto the same drive?
If you just move it to a new folder, it moves instantly anyway. I really don't think that this will stress it much anyway. I would be interested to see a real world test with a ssd of someone copying a large folder on the same drive to see if there is any difference between the old and new macbook pros.
The other thing that could stress it program usage. I just did some basic tests with activity monitor open to check the disk usage. Like opening programs, exporting images from Aperture, resizing in photoshop etc etc and none of them came close to hitting what I can hit copying files from a server over gigabit (68MBps). So i dont see a performance hit here.
I think it is a bit of a none issue, but I would be happy to see some real world tests (not benchmarks) that prove you would get a real performance gain if it had the faster interface.
Unlike a lot of you that have posted your dislike for this, i actually have one of these laptops. I used to like it 100%, now probably around 98%, but not enough to lose sleep over!!!!
Just go an get one and enjoy the amazing battery life. That is something you will notice everyday!!!!
I have the new 13" and it is the fastest notebook i have ever had.
I don't have an ssd version, but a 7200 rpm drive installed after purchase.
I agree that the new gen ssd drives are getting extremely fast, but how can you get a laptop to read/write at such a fast rate continually with just 1 drive?
3 things to stress the interface, transfers from other devices, copying files locally and application usage.
Lets look at the interfaces into the Macbook Pro.
A laptop with a single drive is a bit like an island, in that there is no interface into it which is going to stress the 150MB per second write/speed.
ie Gigabit, dvd, firewire 800, wireless network and USB are all much slower than the Sata 1 interface.
If these laptops had an external e-sata port running at Sata 2, 300MBps and you plugged in an external SSD, then maybe you could see a performance bottleneck.
So next is copying files locally. How often do you copy a very large folder and paste it onto the same drive?
If you just move it to a new folder, it moves instantly anyway. I really don't think that this will stress it much anyway. I would be interested to see a real world test with a ssd of someone copying a large folder on the same drive to see if there is any difference between the old and new macbook pros.
The other thing that could stress it program usage. I just did some basic tests with activity monitor open to check the disk usage. Like opening programs, exporting images from Aperture, resizing in photoshop etc etc and none of them came close to hitting what I can hit copying files from a server over gigabit (68MBps). So i dont see a performance hit here.
I think it is a bit of a none issue, but I would be happy to see some real world tests (not benchmarks) that prove you would get a real performance gain if it had the faster interface.
Unlike a lot of you that have posted your dislike for this, i actually have one of these laptops. I used to like it 100%, now probably around 98%, but not enough to lose sleep over!!!!
Just go an get one and enjoy the amazing battery life. That is something you will notice everyday!!!!
There are two important numbers to determine the percentage.
1. The total number of MacPros sold.
Is there any doubt that Apple knows better than anyone else what this number is? Without that number folks are going to have a hard time coming up with a very accurate answer.
2. Total number of express card devices sold
What could Apple use?
a. total number of logic/ final cut users.
multiple those by a percentage.
b. has partner relationships with various key hardware vendors
(Apogee , RME , all of examples that folks keep
repeatably mentioning here. It is not a very long of a list.).
they could call and ask them how many they sold.
What that be so hard for them to do?
c. Look at the how many developers pinged about driver development
problems that are PCI specific and how many of those were
attached to a MBP device.
Likewise, developers requesting access to the compatibility
support lab.
d. Look at the support ticket database as to how many folks had
problems with ExpressCard and called Apple (kernel panic,
work , etc. )
e. Buy marketing report from some niche consultant that goes around
counting different slot usages and sells it to hardware vendors.
f. Call the vendor that Apple uses to buy ExpressCard connectors from
to find out how many of the other side they make.
g. your idea of a survey of 500-1000 random Mac Pro Users who
answer.
Merge those sources into an approximation of a number.
( they may have also chosen to prune out the ExpressCard usages that are really just USB in a funny format. e.g., cellular modems. The EC slot is hooked to both USB and PCI-1x bus. )
This is all versus folks who say " I use it (or may use it) so therefore it must be a significant number of folks". (Well documented untrained human inferencing from the small into the large. "Well I use it and there much be thousands like me so therefore the percentage can't be small". ) At no point citing how many MacPro users there are total. Throw in the folks who try to reclassified who is "entitled" to a Pro machine; "Well if they aren't using it then they aren't pros".
No random sampling of a population across different demographics.
Both sides are off from the absolute precise number. It is a matter of who has a better approximation. Apple has one of the two pieces to a high degree of accuracy. The other can be debated.
This thread reminds me the endless whining Macbook threads. I hope Apple to fix it via a firmware update as soon as possible.
That's what Apple advertised. Hello?! Are you even reading their advertisements? And I never said the new machine was to be better (but let's face it...99% of all "updated" products are better than than the previous gen)...I said Apple re-labeled it and dropped the price. By re-labeling it, it should "come up" to the specs of the existing "Pros".
Yeah, even the most conscious consumer is going to know what these specs mean. We're talking a controller here...which is RARELY advertised on consumer desktops and laptops. It took some TECHIE to announce this scam.
Well, maybe you should immediately stop reading their advertisments, right?
Read only Tech-Forums, Tech Review sites, review sites for the software you use, etc. I don't now anyone who would buy this (very expensive) product based on info found in the advertising.
Advertising serves to tell you the things they want you to know. Why would you believe advertising? Ads, Jobs' Keynotes, etc: never the truth
Excuse me? since when? this is a basic truth of life, is it?
why? they announced a new product. it's has things you'll like, and things you won't like. find out about these before you lose you money to a corporation.
exactly, that's how it should be. So: read the tech sites, not the advertising!
I remember days of buying tech before the internet, it was much easier to lose money; now, we surf the forums and don't buy till you're happy with the product.
They're not using cheaper CPUs, and the $1999 MacBook Pro has previously had 3 MB L2.
SATA is generic. There is SATA 1.5Gb (SATA I), which is an older standard, generally not used anymore, and its successor SATA 3Gb (SATA II). So when a company like Apple, known for high quality products, says a laptop has a SATA bus, and the previous model used SATA II most people are going to logically conclude that SATA II is also the standard on the newest model.
That is why this is such a big issue. Now if Apple stated SATA I or SATA 1.5Gb clearly and upfront, you'd have a point. But, IF, this was intentional, and we do not know that yet, but IF, then Apple is being deceptive using the generic SATA label. And for that people have every right to be pissed and cut Apple down.
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