13" MBP Retina won't have its own discrete graphics chip???

[bill-p]

No they didn't.
They just removed the optical drive and standard 2.5" drive.
The battery is physically bigger in the rMBP.

And they shaved 1/3 of the thickness as well.

It's physically bigger, but it's not heavier. That's the problem.

I don't know where you got all that from. The throttling thing, the 1.2 GHz thing, the SMC reset, everything seems thrown out of nowhere.

The rMBP has a much better thermal design than all cMBPs and is much harder to make throttle. Unlike the cMBP, Anand couldn't get it to significantly throttle in his review even after running the Half Life 2 benchmark 40 times in a row.

You're right about the bad UI performance being mainly due to software, but the rMBP virtually never throttles and certainly doesn't get stuck at 1.2GHz until a SMC reset.

I got that because I own a rMBP... and mine clearly gets stuck at 1.2GHz until I reset the SMC. Happens under both OSX and Bootcamp after the EFI update that came along with 10.8.2.

The rMBP indeed has better thermals. It's just that Apple is overly afraid of it overheating, so they added unnecessary measures into the firmware to prevent that.

Prior to the EFI update, my rMBP literally zips through everything I throw at it. Now I have to reset SMC every few days, or hours.

It's getting bad enough that I am thinking about bringing it in to an Apple Store. This "issue" is seriously hampering productivity because not only does it lag games, silly things like audio also gets "micro stutter" because of it.

 

[pgiguere1]

And they shaved 1/3 of the thickness as well.

It's physically bigger, but it's not heavier. That's the problem.

If you compare the sizes:
http://www.ijailbreak.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/MacBook-Pro-innards.jpg
and
http://usingapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/inside15mbp.jpg

It's quite clear that the battery is bigger even if it's about 30% thinner. As for the weight, how do you know it's not heavier?

I got that because I own a rMBP... and mine clearly gets stuck at 1.2GHz until I reset the SMC. Happens under both OSX and Bootcamp after the EFI update that came along with 10.8.2.

The rMBP indeed has better thermals. It's just that Apple is overly afraid of it overheating, so they added unnecessary measures into the firmware to prevent that.

Prior to the EFI update, my rMBP literally zips through everything I throw at it. Now I have to reset SMC every few days, or hours.

It's getting bad enough that I am thinking about bringing it in to an Apple Store. This "issue" is seriously hampering productivity because not only does it lag games, silly things like audio also gets "micro stutter" because of it.

I see. That's just a bug with your specific machine. I thought you were saying the constant bad UI performance on the rMBP was due to everyone throttling at 1.2GHz for no reason. Replace your rMBP if needed but even the ones without that bug still get low FPS while scrolling and displaying UI animations.

 

[0x000000]

Flash is most likely the culprit here, not the integrated GPU. While probably unrelated, Flash is well-known in the Windows world for ******** with the GPU core/mem clocks. Only God knows why.

Sounds legit. Flash can be incredibly slow at times, with no apparent reason...

 

[raptorstv]

my sony vaio 13.3" got a decent graphic card... why can't apple do the same?? pwnt?

Switchable graphics with Intel HD 4000 graphics and 1GB DDR3 Nvidia GT640M LE (Kepler) dedicated graphics

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/Sony-Vaio-S-13.htm

 

[leman]

I am really disappointed by this, I wouldn't be able to play games on the 13"

The HD4000 is competent enough to run most games at 1280x800. The retina model would be as viable for gaming as the current 13" MBP - meaning that you will be able to casually play some games, but don't expect stellar performance.

 

[UNLV]

Maybe Apple...

Maybe Apple will "stun" us again in actually incorporating discrete graphics in the new Retina MacBook Pro 13" (while taking out the illuminating sensor, of course ). All jokes aside, I believe it is only right to have such ability; the next-gen MacBook Pro should be--next-gen.

 

[0x000000]

my sony vaio 13.3" got a decent graphic card... why can't apple do the same?? pwnt?

Switchable graphics with Intel HD 4000 graphics and 1GB DDR3 Nvidia GT640M LE (Kepler) dedicated graphics

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/Sony-Vaio-S-13.htm

If the 13" manages to get the same thickness the 15" rMBP has, it'd be 25% thinner than that Vaio which, at least for me, is more important than the hypothetical graphics performance... As long as I can work with it, they can put in whatever they want.

And then again, there's only crappy games for the mac anyway. Its basically only Blizzard, the Sims and some Valve stuff, and seriously, that's like nothing.

I've got a console and a really large HD TV, which sufficiently stills my need for gaming.

 

[raptorstv]

Can bootcamp to windows, right?

 

[0x000000]

Can bootcamp to windows, right?

Quite off topic, but does that work well? I tried playing D3 on Bootcamp once and while it did run slightly better than on OSX, but the fans didn't start. I didn't notice at first but after an hour or so my notebook was like the surface of the sun and despite the heatsink usally being very quick, the notebook was still at about 100°C / 212°F when I got back to OSX. Scared the **** out of me.

 

[M5RahuL]

....That's just a bug with your specific machine. I thought you were saying the constant bad UI performance on the rMBP was due to everyone throttling at 1.2GHz for no reason. ...

It's not just his laptop. There is a thread floating around here regarding this issue since the EFI update. I've had to reset my SMC a few times too because of this problem.

I'm @ myself for updating the EFI !!!

 

[Tea-Aholic]

my sony vaio 13.3" got a decent graphic card... why can't apple do the same?? pwnt?

Switchable graphics with Intel HD 4000 graphics and 1GB DDR3 Nvidia GT640M LE (Kepler) dedicated graphics

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/Sony-Vaio-S-13.htm

My 13.3" VAIO also has switchable graphics, but its not as thin and no where near the 10 hour battery I'm getting on my rMBP.

And then again, there's only crappy games for the mac anyway. Its basically only Blizzard, the Sims and some Valve stuff, and seriously, that's like nothing.

I've got a console and a really large HD TV, which sufficiently stills my need for gaming.

Well, you can install Windows on a Mac so...

 

[Zeov]

Just out of curiosity... what kind of games do you want to play on a Mac. A Mac. A Maaac?

Bootcamp = all games.

 

[tillsbury]

Even on the 15" rMBP the battery performance is completely dire when running the discrete GPU. But still it's there for when the machine is plugged in, which is fine for most purposes. I would be very surprised if they launch a 13" rMBP with only Intel graphics, I think it would be a big mistake. I certainly wouldn't have bought the 15" without the GPU, and they would be leaving their "pro" labelled notebook with weaker graphics than most of its competitors.

 

[SlickShoes]

If the 13" manages to get the same thickness the 15" rMBP has, it'd be 25% thinner than that Vaio which, at least for me, is more important than the hypothetical graphics performance... As long as I can work with it, they can put in whatever they want.

And then again, there's only crappy games for the mac anyway. Its basically only Blizzard, the Sims and some Valve stuff, and seriously, that's like nothing.

I've got a console and a really large HD TV, which sufficiently stills my need for gaming.

That's great FOR YOU, but not everyone is you.

I don't buy my macbook solely for work, gaming is my main hobby and if I can do it on my macbook then I will. If the 13" had a chip more capable than the intel one then they would get another sale from me.

I like everything about a mac, when I want to play a PC game I just boot in to windows and do it, not leaving myself restricted by one OS.

I have a TV and a console too but I want to enjoy all games not just those on that specific device.

 

[theSeb]

Just out of curiosity... what kind of games do you want to play on a Mac. A Mac. A Maaac?

I would start off with some of these

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/genre/mac-games/id12006?mt=12

----------

And they shaved 1/3 of the thickness as well.

It's physically bigger, but it's not heavier. That's the problem.



I got that because I own a rMBP... and mine clearly gets stuck at 1.2GHz until I reset the SMC. Happens under both OSX and Bootcamp after the EFI update that came along with 10.8.2.

The rMBP indeed has better thermals. It's just that Apple is overly afraid of it overheating, so they added unnecessary measures into the firmware to prevent that.

Prior to the EFI update, my rMBP literally zips through everything I throw at it. Now I have to reset SMC every few days, or hours.

It's getting bad enough that I am thinking about bringing it in to an Apple Store. This "issue" is seriously hampering productivity because not only does it lag games, silly things like audio also gets "micro stutter" because of it.

I can confirm that this is true. I love it when people that don't actually own the computer, or don't know how to reproduce it, deny the problem that we're experiencing.

----------

I've got a console and a really large HD TV, which sufficiently stills my need for gaming.

That's awesome that you're stuck with 2006 graphics. The rest of us want to move on. I enjoy my PS3 and Xbox 360, but it's also nice to be able to play games on my computer. Will you not let us have that pleasure?

 

[bill-p]

I see. That's just a bug with your specific machine. I thought you were saying the constant bad UI performance on the rMBP was due to everyone throttling at 1.2GHz for no reason. Replace your rMBP if needed but even the ones without that bug still get low FPS while scrolling and displaying UI animations.

As mentioned by some others, it's not just a problem with my rMBP. It's a known and widespread problem.

When that happens, low FPS and UI animation lags are inevitable.

With a simple SMC reset, everything goes back to zipping by without any discernible lag even at the insane doubled resolution of 3840 x 2400 (1920 x 1200 effective).

So it's not a hardware problem. The machine itself is more than capable of driving the display... and some more. It's Apple's conservative software choices that are hampering the device.

 

[derbothaus]

Quite off topic, but does that work well? I tried playing D3 on Bootcamp once and while it did run slightly better than on OSX, but the fans didn't start. I didn't notice at first but after an hour or so my notebook was like the surface of the sun and despite the heatsink usally being very quick, the notebook was still at about 100°C / 212°F when I got back to OSX. Scared the **** out of me.

Bootcamp is just a set of drivers and HFS+/ NTFS partitioner. They get updated periodically. Your last experience may not be the current one. I don't even use boot camp. I just installed Windows and all their drivers and drivers from the 3rd party components manually. Once you partition the Hard drive just use Control panel to remove the older Apple included drivers that are out of date.
Running gams in DX9/10/11 can get you double or even more the FPS than OpenGL in OS X. Plus no Apple annoying mouse acceleration curve.

 

[bchreng]

It's a shame that the 13" rMBP won't have dedicated graphics. I would have loved to play some games on it. Anyone that claims an HD4000 can run stuff like SC2, and Diablo 3 at a smooth clip with details turned up must be kidding themselves. Still... as long as it can run iMovie and Final Cut well enough, I'd be interested. Intel's 4th generation chips won't be released until Spring it seems, which is still a ways off. If it's priced around $1500, I'll probably pick it up and upgrade to once the new ones are released.

Another option would be the recently-updated Lenovo Y480. It's a 14" notebook with a 650m.

 

[BiscottiGelato]

It's a shame that the 13" rMBP won't have dedicated graphics. I would have loved to play some games on it. Anyone that claims an HD4000 can run stuff like SC2, and Diablo 3 at a smooth clip with details turned up must be kidding themselves. Still... as long as it can run iMovie and Final Cut well enough, I'd be interested. Intel's 4th generation chips won't be released until Spring it seems, which is still a ways off. If it's priced around $1500, I'll probably pick it up and upgrade to once the new ones are released.

Another option would be the recently-updated Lenovo Y480. It's a 14" notebook with a 650m.

Yeah... unfortunately probably a pass for me. Thinking of sticking with my 13" 2011 MBA + old Core 2 Duo PC w/ Graphics card for occassional gaming. I was really hoping this 13 rMBP would have discreet graphix so I can toss the giant tower thing out the windows..... . 15" rMBP really seems too much heft for me....

I guess my best bet would probably be Haswell... i guess summer 2013?

 

[pgiguere1]

As mentioned by some others, it's not just a problem with my rMBP. It's a known and widespread problem.

When that happens, low FPS and UI animation lags are inevitable.

With a simple SMC reset, everything goes back to zipping by without any discernible lag even at the insane doubled resolution of 3840 x 2400 (1920 x 1200 effective).

So it's not a hardware problem. The machine itself is more than capable of driving the display... and some more. It's Apple's conservative software choices that are hampering the device.

My rMBP is quite laggy at the default resolution. I have never done a single SMC reset and the frequency reported by Terminal is 2.6GHz.

I'm not saying your problem isn't real or that you're the only one having it, just that the average rMBP without this problem is still laggy. They're two different issues. Fixing your issue won't fix the rMBP's overall bad UI performance, only improve it for people who have that specific issue.

 

[macmastersam]

you have to be joking...

just think about the space for components in the retina macbook pro, combined with the thin-ness of it

 

[NewishMacGuy]

Yeah... unfortunately probably a pass for me. Thinking of sticking with my 13" 2011 MBA + old Core 2 Duo PC w/ Graphics card for occassional gaming. I was really hoping this 13 rMBP would have discreet graphix so I can toss the giant tower thing out the windows..... . 15" rMBP really seems too much heft for me....

I guess my best bet would probably be Haswell... i guess summer 2013?

Well, the rMBP-15 has a hell of a lot less heft than a MBA-13 + C2D Tower!

 

[calvol]

It's a no-brainer to wait for Haswell if the 13-rMBP doesn't have a dGPU... it won't be laggy sometimes like on the 15-rMBP, just laggy all the time! I'm just going to buy the updated Mini to use with my T-bolt display, keep my 2010 13-Air, and upgrade when the Haswell versions come out next summer.

 

[bill-p]

My rMBP is quite laggy at the default resolution. I have never done a single SMC reset and the frequency reported by Terminal is 2.6GHz.

I'm not saying your problem isn't real or that you're the only one having it, just that the average rMBP without this problem is still laggy. They're two different issues. Fixing your issue won't fix the rMBP's overall bad UI performance, only improve it for people who have that specific issue.

Update to Mountain Lion 10.8.2 if you have laggy UI issues. I don't see any UI lag at all when my SMC is reset. And I run 1920 x 1200 scaled mode all the time.

If you do update, though, don't update EFI.

 

[idunn]

Next generation?

If Apple introduces a 13" retina without discreet graphics, relying only on the HD 4000, the computer will likely be born crippled.

Yes, a 13" MBP can make do with only the HD 4000 as GPU, but without the significantly greater demands of a retina screen. Bear in mind that the 15" RMBP, with discrete graphics, has some capability issues. The next iteration of will probably see a hardware improvement to address specifically this. Meaning the Version A may shortly be viewed in comparison as similarly challenged as the initial MacBook Air was.

Exciting that a 13" RMBP seems near introduction. Yet the wiser course may be patience and allowing those who will not wait to eventually report back. If without discreet graphics, my guess one of their primary complaints will be performance in this regard.