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13" MBP Retina won't have its own discrete graphics chip???

idunn said:
If Apple introduces a 13" retina without discreet graphics, relying only on the HD 4000, the computer will likely be born crippled.

Yes, a 13" MBP can make do with only the HD 4000 as GPU, but without the significantly greater demands of a retina screen. Bear in mind that the 15" RMBP, with discrete graphics, has some capability issues. The next iteration of will probably see a hardware improvement to address specifically this. Meaning the Version A may shortly be viewed in comparison as similarly challenged as the initial MacBook Air was.

Exciting that a 13" RMBP seems near introduction. Yet the wiser course may be patience and allowing those who will not wait to eventually report back. If without discreet graphics, my guess one of their primary complaints will be performance in this regard.
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If the rMBP 13" has performance problems with the user interface (UI), it's because it has a slower processor (CPU), not because it lacks a dedicated graphics processor.

The 13" MBP has been able to drive 2560 x 1600 external displays just fine on integrated graphics for years.
 
bill-p said:
If the rMBP 13" has performance problems with the user interface (UI), it's because it has a slower processor (CPU), not because it lacks a dedicated graphics processor.

The 13" MBP has been able to drive 2560 x 1600 external displays just fine on integrated graphics for years.
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Once again, another user who clearly has no idea what retina display is. Hint: it's not just high resolution.
 
bill-p said:
If the rMBP 13" has performance problems with the user interface (UI), it's because it has a slower processor (CPU), not because it lacks a dedicated graphics processor.

The 13" MBP has been able to drive 2560 x 1600 external displays just fine on integrated graphics for years.
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The resolution isn't as much of an issue as the extra processing required to run in HiDPI mode.

A good way to test would be to hook up a 30" (or 27 even) and force that to run in HiDPI mode. If the performance is acceptable, then perhaps there's nothing to worry about.
 
terraphantm said:
The resolution isn't as much of an issue as the extra processing required to run in HiDPI mode.

A good way to test would be to hook up a 30" (or 27 even) and force that to run in HiDPI mode. If the performance is acceptable, then perhaps there's nothing to worry about.
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that's why he said, if anything, it's more a processing power issue, so that there's enough to overcome the SW inefficiencies in doing HiDPI...
 
stevelam said:
Once again, another user who clearly has no idea what retina display is. Hint: it's not just high resolution.
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Here's a hint back at you, sir: check Activity Monitor while scrolling in Safari and other apps on an actual rMBP. Better yet, check it when you are switching in and out of Launchpad or opening Mission Control.

I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.

terraphantm said:
The resolution isn't as much of an issue as the extra processing required to run in HiDPI mode.

A good way to test would be to hook up a 30" (or 27 even) and force that to run in HiDPI mode. If the performance is acceptable, then perhaps there's nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and most of the processing actually goes on in the CPU rather than with the GPU.

The GPU is responsible mostly for the fullscreen animations related to Mission Control and Launchpad, yes, but those are hardly the primary source of UI lags. Try scrolling and zooming in Safari... and check Activity Monitor. You'll see what I mean.
 
regardless... to make rMBP 13 a fully self sufficient machine, dGPU is absolutely required. It's simply BS that if you have anything 13" or smaller that you gotta buy yet another machine for even doing light gaming.
 
BiscottiGelato said:
regardless... to make rMBP 13 a fully self sufficient machine, dGPU is absolutely required. It's simply BS that if you have anything 13" or smaller that you gotta buy yet another machine for even doing light gaming.
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By that you mean "absolutely required" for gaming.

There's tons of people owning a 15" rMBP saying that their rMBP never switches to the discrete GPU outside of gaming and that OSX runs smoothly without them noticing even the tiniest difference.

I will not trust anyone anymore who blatantly says a discrete GPU is "absolutely required" or "it will stutter" unless they add "because it's like that on my 15" rMBP"!
 
0x000000 said:
By that you mean "absolutely required" for gaming.

There's tons of people owning a 15" rMBP saying that their rMBP never switches to the discrete GPU outside of gaming and that OSX runs smoothly without them noticing even the tiniest difference.

I will not trust anyone anymore who blatantly says a discrete GPU is "absolutely required" or "it will stutter" unless they add "because it's like that on my 15" rMBP"!
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Yes. Otherwise the rMBP is not self sufficient and another gaming PC will be needed to even do moderate gaming.
 
...

discrete graphics doesn't take that much room, they couldn't do it because there was such limited space in the 13 but now that the optical drive is gone they have a ton of space, the amount of room that chip takes up is not that much the problem is more likely heat dissipation than space
 
I hoped for a dedicated GPU but I predicted that it wouldn't happen. The HD4000 is more than enough to power the retina screen and we've known this for awhile now...

As for gaming on it, we might be surprised... I play SC2, WoW, and Diablo 3 on medium-high settings with consistent ~30-40 FPS on my HD3000... Now I know its not the best situation but it's definitely playable and the HD4000 is *I think* twice as powerful as the HD3000... So it may not be a lost cause when it comes to gaming on the HD4000
 
Doggman said:
I hoped for a dedicated GPU but I predicted that it wouldn't happen. The HD4000 is more than enough to power the retina screen and we've known this for awhile now...

As for gaming on it, we might be surprised... I play SC2, WoW, and Diablo 3 on medium-high settings with consistent ~30-40 FPS on my HD3000... Now I know its not the best situation but it's definitely playable and the HD4000 is *I think* twice as powerful as the HD3000... So it may not be a lost cause when it comes to gaming on the HD4000
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SC2 on medium on my 2011 13" MBA sucks. Low is playable but not great. Medium is not playable. And I am only talking 2 v 2, not even 4 v 4...

And then barely playable doesn't say much for future proofing. SC2 is the only game I play, but Heart of the Swarm expansion is coming around the corner... They might up the req a little...
 
0x000000 said:
By that you mean "absolutely required" for gaming.

There's tons of people owning a 15" rMBP saying that their rMBP never switches to the discrete GPU outside of gaming and that OSX runs smoothly without them noticing even the tiniest difference.

I will not trust anyone anymore who blatantly says a discrete GPU is "absolutely required" or "it will stutter" unless they add "because it's like that on my 15" rMBP"!
Click to expand...

if you use an external monitor, it automatically switches to the discrete. you can't disable this.
 
BiscottiGelato said:
SC2 on medium on my 2011 13" MBA sucks. Low is playable but not great. Medium is not playable. And I am only talking 2 v 2, not even 4 v 4...

And then barely playable doesn't say much for future proofing. SC2 is the only game I play, but Heart of the Swarm expansion is coming around the corner... They might up the req a little...
Click to expand...

Well there must be a pretty significant difference between the 13" MBA and the 13" MBP. I play on high texture and high details on SC2 and it stays above 30 FPS even in late game 2v2's. Games start with FPS in the 40s. That is more than "playable" IMO.

Given that SC2 is a CPU intensive game, one could only assume the difference is in the CPU since we have the same iGPU (Intel HD3000). The 13" MBP I am using has a 2.3 ghz i5 dual core with turbo boost and hyper-threading making it a virtual quad core. Before looking it up, I thought the 13" Air probably didn't have hyperthreading or didn't have turbo boost but it turns out they do. I guess the extra .6 mhz (difference between 2.3ghz i5 and 1.7ghz i5) makes a noticeable difference when playing SC2.

Either way my point is when the 13" Retina comes out and has a 2.5-2.9 ghz quad core with HT and turbo boost as well as the Intel HD4000, it will not be as weak as some might think. However, gaming at native res might be another story entirely.

Just my prediction though... the 13" rMBP might suck :rolleyes:
 
Doggman said:
Well there must be a pretty significant difference between the 13" MBA and the 13" MBP. I play on high texture and high details on SC2 and it stays above 30 FPS even in late game 2v2's. Games start with FPS in the 40s. That is more than "playable" IMO.

Given that SC2 is a CPU intensive game, one could only assume the difference is in the CPU since we have the same iGPU (Intel HD3000). The 13" MBP I am using has a 2.3 ghz i5 dual core with turbo boost and hyper-threading making it a virtual quad core. Before looking it up, I thought the 13" Air probably didn't have hyperthreading or didn't have turbo boost but it turns out they do. I guess the extra .6 mhz (difference between 2.3ghz i5 and 1.7ghz i5) makes a noticeable difference when playing SC2.

Either way my point is when the 13" Retina comes out and has a 2.5-2.9 ghz quad core with HT and turbo boost as well as the Intel HD4000, it will not be as weak as some might think. However, gaming at native res might be another story entirely.

Just my prediction though... the 13" rMBP might suck :rolleyes:
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There is a significant difference between the hd 4000 running on a full voltage mobile CPU, like in the MBP, versus one running on a ULV CPU, like in the MBA.
 
theSeb said:
There is a significant difference between the hd 4000 running on a full voltage mobile CPU, like in the MBP, versus one running on a ULV CPU, like in the MBA.
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Ah so the difference is in the power voltage... I figured there was something more than just the core clock speed difference. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'll have to google what ULV CPU's are. I didn't know about them.
 
Doggman said:
Ah so the difference is in the power voltage... I figured there was something more than just the core clock speed difference. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'll have to google what ULV CPU's are. I didn't know about them.
Click to expand...

It stands for ultra low voltage. It's the mobile CPUs that are in the Macbook Airs and Windows Ultrabooks.

There is a review on Anandtech from a couple of months back that clearly shows the difference of the HD4000's performance.

... found it

47205.png


The Asus N56VM in the chart uses a standard voltage Ivy Bridge CPU with HD 4000, like in the MBP. The Intel IVB Ultrabook in the charts uses a ULV IV CPU with HD 4000, like in the 2012 MBA. There is generally around 5-6 FPS difference.
 
I guess I will try to install SC2 on a USB stick and stick it to a rMBP when they are avail in store and see how that performs.

Can we run games at 1/4 of the retina monitor resolution instead of native res?
 
BiscottiGelato said:
Can we run games at 1/4 of the retina monitor resolution instead of native res?
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Yes...

iIbg5HEyhgnUp.png


And despite what others have said repeatedly, you don't actually have to run games at native resolution. Dropping down to 1/4 retina resolution is just like running the same game on a regular MacBook Pro. In the case of the 15" rMBP, it's just like a regular 15" cMBP.
 
raptorstv said:
i really dont care about the battery life, i will just use the macbook plugged to the AC charging all day loooooooooooooooong~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Whats the point of getting a Macbook? Just to show off to your friends or just for pride?

Just get a desktop if you're plugged in all day... Waste of money to spend it on a premium notebook and you're just going to let it sit and die a horrible death.
 
bill-p said:
Yes...

And despite what others have said repeatedly, you don't actually have to run games at native resolution. Dropping down to 1/4 retina resolution is just like running the same game on a regular MacBook Pro. In the case of the 15" rMBP, it's just like a regular 15" cMBP.
Click to expand...

Does it still look any good at 1/4 resolution tho? I'm thinking there might be artifacts or whatever. Just having reservation whether a rMBP at 1/4 res will look as good as a cMBP at native res. I know theoretically it should, but anyone with real world sighting able to comment on this?

With the discreet, is the rMBP 15" able to comfortably drive SC2 at native res?
 
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