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I originally bought the current M1 as a stop gap. I wanted to try and play with the M1, and get used to ARM64 for my dev work.

I had thought I'd jump on the 16 the second it came out, but I've mellowed with that view since. The 13 inch M1 is such a nice machine, I'm just gonna use it for a few years and then trade up.


By the way just so folks know, everything works great. Intel apps (though very few I use, only GPGTools is Intel on my machine atm) work great, and most apps have ARM builds now, even on homebrew.
Everything works great?? What about Adobe Acrobat Professional? What about CUDA? What about eGPU support? What about Bootcamp? What about Windows? What about Linux? What about 32-bit apps. Ha ha ha. What an incompatible joke.
 
Many millions of Apple customers who don't have any idea of what Linux, Virtualbox, or Docker are, or don't need them. I wouldn't be shocked if that were at least 90% of Apple's customer base.
Add to those millions of everyday users the 1000+ that are using Docker’s Dev Preview build for M1 Macs:
1610252279582.png

(I don’t get the downvotes you got, quite the reasonable argument)
 
Everything works great?? What about Adobe Acrobat Professional? What about CUDA? What about eGPU support? What about Bootcamp? What about Windows? What about Linux? What about 32-bit apps. Ha ha ha. What an incompatible joke.
It looks to me that this machine is not for you, at least just yet... or maybe never as CUDA I don’t see it ever coming back anytime soon. So yeah, it definitely doesn’t work great for you.
 
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For the average user what they already have is faster than they need, they will care less about 3x faster until they need to upgrade. It's laughable that so many believe people need 3x faster when they are not even pushing what they have.
I think you should try one or see a lot of then usability reviews out there, it is about the experience too.

3x more performance on cpu, gpu, tons of extra dedicated gpu-like chips for many tasks that free the cpu form them (just like the gpu frees the cpu from freezing rendering graphics), etc translates in a better (and sometimes instant) seamless experience for the most part... launching a M1 app is close to instant most of the time, switching windows, tabs, apps, etc... just like when turning around an iPhone to landscape mode and the whole layout changing neatly, on some videos they show M1 plugging/unplugging external monitors, changing resolutions or display layouts where the thing doesn’t even flinch, you have to really not blink to notice the jump in change (currently doing anything similar the screen goes black, sometimes they have blinking spasms, freezes, looks death for a second, then comes back).
 
See, you assume I don't have one. I do, ordered immediately as they were released after the event. Been using it for some time now.
And, genuinely curious, you still think that for the average user, all the other things that I mentioned in the reply, the average user wouldn’t notice it? Need it? Or push it?

For context, the rest of the reply:
3x more performance on cpu, gpu, tons of extra dedicated gpu-like chips for many tasks that free the cpu form them (just like the gpu frees the cpu from freezing rendering graphics), etc translates in a better (and sometimes instant) seamless experience for the most part... launching a M1 app is close to instant most of the time, switching windows, tabs, apps, etc... just like when turning around an iPhone to landscape mode and the whole layout changing neatly, on some videos they show M1 plugging/unplugging external monitors, changing resolutions or display layouts where the thing doesn’t even flinch, you have to really not blink to notice the jump in change (currently doing anything similar the screen goes black, sometimes they have blinking spasms, freezes, looks death for a second, then comes back).

I think for some just the fan noise completely gone would be enough of a feature to need.

But anyways, I’ll actually stop here as we are actually discussing what we think other people think... I’ll default to “whatever they want to think and feel like doing with their hard or easy earned money”.
 
I think for some just the fan noise completely gone would be enough of a feature to need.

I think to Lee’s point, you’re inflating things that the average user probably does not greatly value. For example, the fan noise is a problem to geeks like you, but to most they don’t really mind.

And yeah it’s helpful to talk about what other people think because it gives a broader less niched perspective on these topics
 
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I think to Lee’s point, you’re inflating things that the average user probably does not greatly value. For example, the fan noise is a problem to geeks like you, but to most they don’t really mind.

Exactly this, for most the fan noise, won't be an issue on the M1 as it is better than before, but, it was not a problem anyway. Thermal throttling, again for most was not an issue as they either never knew it was a thing or didn't push their devices that hard that it caused a problem and so on.

Talking general users here. Geeks, professionals that do things where thermal throttling, PPW and so on really matter, totally different.

Even all the people that are posting about how great their M1's are after opening 40 browser tabs, 15 apps and whatever else and it runs great. Sure, but few if any will actually do that in normal day to to day use!

Bottom line, for most, the M1 will make little or no difference to their overall experience. It is a great machine and the improvements are significant, I know having used the M1 for a couple of months now, but not everyone will see it the same way.
 
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I think to Lee’s point, you’re inflating things that the average user probably does not greatly value. For example, the fan noise is a problem to geeks like you, but to most they don’t really mind.

And yeah it’s helpful to talk about what other people think because it gives a broader less niched perspective on these topics
Why would geeks care more about fan noise then the average user? Has there been some survey that has shown average users would accept greater fan noise for better performance. I would think that geeks are more likely to be power users with intensive workflows that set off fan noise. I utilize my 2016 Macbook Pro for work (tech support) and love the fact that I hear no fan noise. Prior to the MBP, I had a white Macbook and various Dell Insipiron laptops. One of my biggest annoyances was the fan noise. I certainly will not go back to that now that I have experienced life without the fan noise.

** EDIT**
To clarify, I would think that power users (more likely to be geeks in my opinion) would want less thermal throttling to get better performance at the cost of higher fan noise. For average users, I would think that would not be the case.
 
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It looks to me that this machine is not for you, at least just yet... or maybe never as CUDA I don’t see it ever coming back anytime soon. So yeah, it definitely doesn’t work great for you.
The sad part is that ARM could be great, given benefits in video encoding speed and energy efficiency compared to x86-64, but Apple chose to drop support for CUDA, Nvidia, Bootcamp, Thunderbolt eGPUs, 32 bit apps, etc. They chose to not support a touchscreen or a stylus, and get stuck in last century technology, just so they can sell more ipads. I am forced to use a Lenovo Yoga to teach at University with a stylus and projector connected. Due to Apple's choices, many scientists and academics find the new Macs a lot less useful than what they could be. It's sad, because Steve Jobs placed great value in making the Macs the most useful machines to professional scientists and academics, and this resulted in high quality machines. Tim Cook does not have pro users or quality in mind. He is wasting the Mac's potential and turning MacBooks into ipads with a keyboard (and without touch screen!).
 
Why would geeks care more about fan noise then the average user? Has there been some survey that has shown average users would accept greater fan noise for better performance. I would think that geeks are more likely to be power users with intensive workflows that set off fan noise. I utilize my 2016 Macbook Pro for work (tech support) and love the fact that I hear no fan noise. Prior to the MBP, I had a white Macbook and various Dell Insipiron laptops. One of my biggest annoyances was the fan noise. I certainly will not go back to that now that I have experienced life without the fan noise.

** EDIT**
To clarify, I would think that power users (more likely to be geeks in my opinion) would want less thermal throttling to get better performance at the cost of higher fan noise. For average users, I would think that would not be the case.

Geeks is probably the wrong word. I should have known it'd be interpreted pedantically. Seeing how you're in tech support, you're naturally more particular than the average user.
 
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Add to those millions of everyday users the 1000+ that are using Docker’s Dev Preview build for M1 Macs:
View attachment 1710071
(I don’t get the downvotes you got, quite the reasonable argument)

Please... not while I'm drinking milk! That was a real hoot!
 
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Geeks is probably the wrong word. I should have known it'd be interpreted pedantically. Seeing how you're in tech support, you're naturally more particular than the average user.
My contention is that whether or not you are a "geek" has nothing to do with whether or not you would be bothered by fan noise. I think everyone is bothered by it and are willing to accept a certain level of it depending on their circumstances.

I work in tech support but the workflows I use primarily only involve web browser and email usage with the occasional use of a specific application (e.g. Microsoft Teams, Remote Desktop, etc.). I would think that would correlate with how most average users utilize their laptop. I don't do any gaming, photo/video editing, or app development. However, if I was that type of user I would be less concerned about the fan noise because I know it would be necessary as part of my activities.
 
Seriously?? You think a significant percentage of Mac users run Virtualbox and Docker? What cave do you live in?
I will not say the majority of users but a lot of users. Me, all my colleages and all the students have a Mac in the classroom. In a couple of years we will be stuck within relatively old hardware and the incompatibilities of the new Macs. If the things do not change in Apple my prediction is we will migrate to PC and we will virtualize MacOS.

Or, maybe all the industry shift to ARM and the developers translate all the SW needed by then
 
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I am really torn! I have a M1 MBP arriving today and would really prefer to have the latest refresh in design. Will the 14” be replacing the 13”? I haven’t seen any discussion if the 13” is going away.
 
I am really torn! I have a M1 MBP arriving today and would really prefer to have the latest refresh in design. Will the 14” be replacing the 13”? I haven’t seen any discussion if the 13” is going away.
What’s probably going to happen is the 14” will replace the current Intel 13"; this is the reason I’m waiting as I need the 4 Thunderbolt ports and more than 16GB RAM. I’d imagine the current 13” would stay.
 
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