What are the electrical benefits to soldering?
Surely having the flexibility of upgrading the SSD in years to some out weighs what ever your answer is?
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15-Inch MacBook Pro With Touch Bar Has Non-Removable SSD
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What are the electrical benefits to soldering?
Surely having the flexibility of upgrading the SSD in years to some out weighs what ever your answer is?
There is no benefit to upgrading for me, so no it doesn't outweigh for me. I bought the 2TB which will be enough for the duration of my use of these things. Soldering reduces contact resistance and impedance, allowing smaller, lower powered drivers and simpler impedance matching.
You're absolutely right, people are incapable of reasoning. Because people don't listen very good.
So, for the last time, lemme try to make this clear:
It is irrelevant if there is a connector on the SSD. Any repair will result in the need for a restore. Depending on the situation, this could range from a non-issue to a "disaster", depending on the user and the scenario involved. Even if Apple decides to do this as part of the repair (which I highly doubt they would), this'll add time to the repair.
We're pretty freaking far from where we were, because there is an ocean-sized gap between soldering RAM (bad enough as it is) and soldering the main drive.
There is no other way to look at this. Apple soldering the SSD to the logic board is BAD news, period. This change is significant. Perhaps that is the crux of our disagreement.
So, I'm glad that people are sharing ways to mitigate the bad news, but to be dismissive of Apple's action here is to defend it.
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Yep, it benefits Apple. And of course, it also benefits users that value thinness over everything else.
If you seek to truly understand our (the dissenters) position, read this WIRED magazine article (from 2012) someone else posted here previously:
https://www.wired.com/2012/06/opinion-apple-retina-displa/amp/?client=safari
EDIT: For the sake of disclosure, there is still one MBP that the above doesn't fully apply: The non TB MBP. It has a socketed SSD, but it's a new socket. So, no 3rd party replacement or upgrade, but if something breaks a restore will not be necessary. If you sell it or buy a used one, you could potentially get a fresh drive in there. Decisions, decisions.
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I bet 80% approx of rMBP 2016 buyers think they can upgrade the SSD and many dont have deep pockets to afford a 2TB even if they did know.
"I'll go for the 256GB for now and when I have the need and the finances I'll pop a larger hard drive in..... I have a friend who can do the upgrade".
A lot of folks are in for a shock in the future, buyers remorse will / may ensue.
"I'll go for the 256GB for now and when I have the need and the finances I'll pop a larger hard drive in..... I have a friend who can do the upgrade".
A lot of folks are in for a shock in the future, buyers remorse will / may ensue.
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We're probably arguing because we need to be more specific. Saying it "benefits users" is not enough.
This benefits some users, those who value thinness and perhaps weight over everything else.
It will cause a problem to all users, if they find themselves in a particular scenario.
Some users can live with the problem, if they find themselves in a particular scenario.
It used to NOT be a problem, in ALL scenarios.
That is my argument, and the reason why I have a problem with this.
So multiple dongles and adapters is the key? Have you not even read my initial posts? People need to travel, not everyone is stuck to a cubicle desk.
Its pretty ridiculous how people are so closed minded on here. "My work place and situation is EVERYONES!"
Thats why there is "Professional Laptops"
I've read what you have said. But you are running off on tangents. The article we are discussing is the lack of removable SSD... and how some people want to insist that is a feature that "professional" users MUST have.
But you are honestly telling me i'm ridiculous and close minded for thinking that "My work place and situation is EVERYONE!".... while you are sitting there telling me that YOUR needs are what Apple must address?!?!?!?! So you are doing exactly what you criticize. Good job.
Having suffered through an SSD failure in a newish (just out of warranty) MacPro with its stupid proprietary connector, then two Thunderbolt monitors, and logic boards on a 15" MacBook Pro and 13" MacBook Air, I'm more and more reluctant to buy things that have de facto expensive repairs.
They'll be in the garbage or sitting on someone's shelf. They won't be operable.
ugh. I need to get gold wire saw, isopropyl alcohol, and hope I don't explode batteries when I attempt to fix it. At least they fixed that in the new rMBP, the trackpad can be replaced easily. SSD/RAM. Meh.
Don't you have something like Gewahrleistung in the US?
Anyhow I think soldering RAM, battery and ssd to the mainboard is planned obsolescence, period. Steve wanted to create the best mobile and most expandable no compromise computer ever and boy Apple deliver back then.
Tim wants an Yve like design machine that costs a lot but isn't expandable at all and extremely hard to repair.
Apple had the framework and the experience to absolutely nail this machine but they delivered something called new MBP version 1 and man do early adopters have to pay for that.
If you do try it. Don't put isopropyl alcohol on the keyboard keys. I did that on my dead rMBP and it bubbled the coating on the keys - it didn't do it immediately so might just be prolonged contact, I used quite a bit.
Late to the discussion but I feel the need to point out that the true problem is the fact that SSD's have a limited lifespan - whether it's a dud that lasts you 5 months or a typical one that lasts 5 years is irrelevant.
Sooner or later it'll stop working and you'll likely have to replace the whole logic board instead of one piece of hardware. That's a difference between maybe $100 to $1000, depending on what Apple would charge for something like that - we don't know yet, and their lack of communication on that front is worrying.
Of course you should be backing up your storage regularly, but that's not the issue. We back it up because we know drives have limited read/writes, we know they fail - that's why it's also so important for us to be able to replace the drive by itself rather than replacing the whole logic board.
If Apple had made it possible to switch out the SSD, but you had to do it through them, I'd be okay with it, but that's not the case.
It's become increasingly clear this is a calculated effort in having people in 5 years decide whether it's worth replacing the whole logic board or just forking out for a completely new one. Call it planned obsolescence or "courage", it's still insulting to both the consumer who doesn't know how this affects them and the users who understand completely how poorly thought out it was.
Sooner or later it'll stop working and you'll likely have to replace the whole logic board instead of one piece of hardware. That's a difference between maybe $100 to $1000, depending on what Apple would charge for something like that - we don't know yet, and their lack of communication on that front is worrying.
Of course you should be backing up your storage regularly, but that's not the issue. We back it up because we know drives have limited read/writes, we know they fail - that's why it's also so important for us to be able to replace the drive by itself rather than replacing the whole logic board.
If Apple had made it possible to switch out the SSD, but you had to do it through them, I'd be okay with it, but that's not the case.
It's become increasingly clear this is a calculated effort in having people in 5 years decide whether it's worth replacing the whole logic board or just forking out for a completely new one. Call it planned obsolescence or "courage", it's still insulting to both the consumer who doesn't know how this affects them and the users who understand completely how poorly thought out it was.
Removing ports that are not so "legacy" is a problem. You can't expect clients to just get USB-C projectors, have their Sever towers that cost in the $100,000s to setup and the software that goes along with it to have USB-C ports.
Its not being closed minded, its just a simple fact that for a professional computer should retain at least SOME of these ports, other wise its just another basic consumer laptop (like I said what the MacBook should of been). This isn't just SOME cases, I don't know any clients that's going to replace all their servers and workstations just because the MacBook Pro has only USB-C ports.
Where as you're saying a professional doesn't need to remove an SSD? We need all these things to work efficiently as a professional, if you're in Photography, Video, IT, Development, or what not. Otherwise if you're a fair weather user, yeah of course you don't need a removable SSD, the not so 'legacy' ports, etc etc. That wouldn't be a "Pro" labtop user that would be a basic laptop user, hell even a tablet user.
Dongles and adapters get lost/left when you're in meetings/presentations/trainings and you have another to attend to. Isn't the whole concept of a professional Laptop/notebook since its creation, for the professional that needs to be on the move? Hey, if I didn't need to be on the move constantly, than I'd be fine with a basic desktop computer, but thats not the case.
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Yeah!!
Since the Apple's marketing got it wrong, those laptops are MacBookAir and not MBP, they can call the old design MBPClassic
Very well said, and directly to the point. I don't know what the MTBF is for SSDs, but have personally experienced four in my house in he last year. The repairs are not cheap, particularly if they require an entirely new logic board or some goofy SSD configuration.
One thing is clear though, the drives are likely to fail outside the window of AppleCare.
I think you'll still need to use the alcohol on the battery. I'm sure the ifixit site shows you how
Whilst the non-upgradability sucks it’s something the buyer accepts (without option unfortunately aside from using a non-Apple Mac) this aspect is a bit of a security and privacy issue. If the board dies to the point one cannot boot even to a terminal to wipe the drive then that means Apple gets all your data upon replacement. If not properly and throughly wiped before it’s sent to be refurbed or recycled there’s a chance somewhere from the point of the Genius Bar all the way to the refurb/recycler for data (whether inadvertently not wiped or partially) could be gleaned. This is really not inspiring.
Just what someone spending thousands wants to do for a portable computer, carry around not only several dongles but a drive as well. Also in regard to all these previously unneeded dongles, will the Greenpeace assessment factor in the environmental impact of this as, e.g. it’s slightly ridiculous to need for an iPhone released mere months before the device came out.
SSDs typically last way longer than the lifespan of most laptops at any rate (well over 10 years). You are more likely to replace your laptop because you want a newer, shinier device than because of a worn out drive.
Most people aren't going to crack their laptops open to upgrade the internals inside and Apple knows it. I am willing to bet that many of the people expressing mock outrage over this won't upgrade the SSD in their MacBook ever even if presented the opportunity.
Can't believe some people don't even understand the simple benefits of expandability
It's faster, cheaper and even more practical to replace the SSD than the logic board, shouldn't be hard to understand.
having stuff soldered on and making things hard to repair is creating planned obsolescence and nothing else
It's faster, cheaper and even more practical to replace the SSD than the logic board, shouldn't be hard to understand.
having stuff soldered on and making things hard to repair is creating planned obsolescence and nothing else
Of course it is. But common sense slowy seems to evading and the usual apologists (like the guy with Coffee cup in his face) have turned this forum in an embarrassing place.
I just upgraded my 17" MBP with a 2 TB SSD and threw another 2 TB HDD into the optical Bay for good measure, so I don't need an external HDD for my tons of video files anymore - with 16 GB RAM it is flying. I had the plan to buy another Mac soon but then I decided against it after the Tim and his team fxxxxx up the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro, and turned the MBP into a complete joke, I was worried that they will find a way to screw up the iMac, too.
SSD’s are relatively new tech and have only really been popular in the last 4-5 years so I find it hard to agree with the idea that they could last 10 years on average - I’m not ruling it out but creative professionals are likely to read/write constantly which will be a huge factor in the lifespan of the drive - key word here being professionals - individuals that the machine was supposed to target.
In the event it lasts 10 years for most people, that’d be great, and I agree, people are more likely to buy a new device in 10 years - but we can’t say that for certain and that still doesn’t change the fact that SSD’s, like all hardware, can fail. That might affect a small portion of the consumers but only now is it a much larger issue for those it does affect. Again, I point out having to replace a whole logic board as opposed to one component. It’s a problem that doesn’t have to exist and the benefits of soldered SSD’s are far outweighed by removable drives.
Many users may not try to upgrade their laptops, but I would argue the “pro” market does/did have a solid community of people who are willing to service their MBPs in order to prolong the life of their machines. Most people don’t use SD cards either, but the pro line was meant to cater to creatives who routinely use them for work - like the SSD issue, removing it has created problems that never existed.
I personally still use my early 2011 15” MBP because Apple had allowed for it to be upgraded by users such as myself. Beyond that, the reality is people can’t always afford to buy the new, shinier device every few years, so doing upgrades yourself is a very viable, practical and inexpensive option for many.
Apple’s clearly lost sight of their “pro” audience in favour of the mass market who don’t know or care to upgrade their machines. The core pro users were the ones most excited for the release of this years model, and that’s why they’re so disappointed by what Apple’s given them. I don’t see why people are so adamant in justifying the decisions made by Apple this generation when it’s pretty clear that not having soldered hardware is far more beneficial to the end user.
Everyone says: It is time to boycott Apple products!!!! It sucks!
(getting the wallet, take the credit card out, and click click order online)
(getting the wallet, take the credit card out, and click click order online)