16 GB of RAM for a Pro device is not okay

[Jumpthesnark]

I really don’t understand how 16 GB of ram is default in the MacBook Pros! I should at least start from 32 GB of ram to be considered a Pro Device for that price.

If you're a "pro," either your employer will pay for your MBP (not your money) or your clients will (again, not your money).

Get what you actually need for your work, and don't worry about a device's labels, what other people buy, or how much they pay.

 

[HouseLannister]

640 kb ought to be enough for anybody

 

[Zdigital2015]

Make it slotted again (so we can upgrade it ourselves).

That will make it stop

Guarantee you that if they allow DRAM upgrades it will be some new proprietary interconnect that they invent and will push as the next JEDEC standard. It will never be SO-DIMMs.

 

[uacd]

On the other hand, maybe less RAM will make developers think about optimizing their apps to run more efficiently. However as we will have more and more demanding apps that rely on AI, system requirements might rise to the point of needing 64gb RAM to have everything run flawlessly. It is indeed fun that nowadays smartphones/phones have similar amount of RAM as desktop computers

 

[uacd]

It would be great if modular design were reintroduced across the board, but I don't think it will - people tend to want to most performance in the smallest (excepting the screen) and least expensive package - a modular laptop, like the type Framework sell, will come at a premium, and the premium will be for the modularity. As with Framework, ignoring their USP, the modularity, the performance of their machines is "just OK". That's going to be a stumbling block if they ever want to get beyond being a niche laptop supplier.

Turns out modular can be made compact too. New Nintendo Switch for example requires new SD card standard that runs at 880MB/s, i.e. baseline speed of some SSDs. Micro SD Express is this new standard, it has some fancy thermal solutions and based on PCI now

 

[SnowPenguin]

...,.,.,,,

They have made it like that so the cost conscious can save $200.

I don't know why people insist on using the cheapest model as the reference price-- Apple certainly doesn't.

Maybe, but the additional RAM shouldn't cost $200

 

[SnowPenguin]

Make it slotted again (so we can upgrade it ourselves).

That will make it stop

I agree! Soldered RAM is so anti-consumer

I doubt anyone complained back when RAM was slotted

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I used to rant about 8 GB RAM, since it is actually not enough, but 16 GB RAM is good enough, and has been for the last ten years or more, for most scenarios. So, I disagree.

Your rant about 8 GB was as wrong as today's rant about 16 GB is. Different users simply need different RAM for their own reasons: cost, apps used, focused versus multi-tasking, hardware life cycle chosen, financial or mental value of faster/smoother operation, etc.

 

[Happy_John]

Turns out modular can be made compact too. New Nintendo Switch for example requires new SD card standard that runs at 880MB/s, i.e. baseline speed of some SSDs. Micro SD Express is this new standard, it has some fancy thermal solutions and based on PCI now

Yes, it's not that it can't be done, and it's what Framework is doing, but it means redesigning components, and, looking at the whole global market for laptops, and not just people who are interested in etch and what is inside the case, I don't think here will be enough of a push for it. I do think there will be more user-upgradable devices, but they'll still be "niche" products. People will buy a framework laptop because they have specifically decided to by a Framework laptop. I don't think the'll sell many laptops to people who "just want a laptop". They'd need to be a huge push at the consumer level to make the change happen and for motherboards suited to user-customsation to be mass-produced.

I'm not saying it's not technically possible, of course it is. I don't think wide scale adoption will happen by laptop manufacturers unless there is enough of a demand by consumers for it. And I don't think enough consumers will demand it. Some will, but not enough.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I am aware of that. Perhaps it’s time for that to change. On the other hand, RAM built to the CAMM2 standard - which isn’t far off - may be the next long-term solution.

CAMM2 is for modules. Modules require controllers [extra clock cycles] and more physical distance away from the CPU/GPU. Apple's Unified Memory Architecture (UMA) approach is overall faster and much cleaner theoretically. CAMM2 would likely compromise UMA, so do not look for it in Apple M-chip devices unless as some kind of secondary RAM cache. [Some LLMs thrive on lots of RAM. I could see Apple using some kind of secondary RAM cache with TBs of optionally available RAM in the next Mac Pro.]

The physics of UMA are so superior I do not see Apple denigrating UMA in the seeable future.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I'd like to see the M4 MacBook Budget that's rumored to be out later this year or early next.

That will be an interesting box. My guess is that it will be very K-12 edu-channel specific plus serve as entry to Mac as well as K-12 box entry to Mac. But that is just a guess.

Apple could call it the MacBudget. Sounds like a tacky fast food entrée, but people buy billions of tacky fast food entrées.

 

[ThailandToo]

You can always buy the one with more RAM.
Be happy that it's not 8GB anymore. I wonder, if MacRumors was like that back in 2006.
"2GB of RAM isn't enough for a Pro device".

I don't know… I have 8GB and it doesn't bother me one bit. All of the computers I've owned have worked well and RAM has been least of my issues.
I've used Blender and Unity quite a bit too. Makes me wonder what Pro things do people do on their computers.

I bet if I bought a brand new M4 MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM I'd be happy with it and at the performance. I still think processors are more important. I have 2 Android phones with 3GB of RAM and Samsung Galaxy A20 is way snappier than whatever Motorola I have. I don't know. Makes me feel a bit bad, since I'm happy even with my 8GB MBA M1 and it works better than the Windows laptop I have at work and it has 16GB of RAM. ChatGPT lags on it but doesn't lag on my MacBook Air M1 and responses are faster.

And when Apple will make 32GB a base model, then you'll complain that 32GB isn't enough. Is it one of those never ending cycles?

When MacBook Air's were released with 16GB of RAM as a base model then I saw comments on Reddit complaining that it's not enough, even though the year before that they were complaining that 8GB isn't enough. I don't remember seeing people complaining that 1GB isn't enough on a base MacBook either. It seems like a recent trend and I see posts about it daily on reddit.

It's like people asking if they should get 32GB MacBook Air M3 or 16GB MacBook Air with M4 and when I responded M4 my phone blew up of notifications and I received hundreds of downvotes. Based on my experiences with Apple they drop the support based on your processor, not RAM.

People post their Activity Monitors and on Windows PCs as well, just idling and posting: "It's sitting on a desktop and using 10GB of RAM. How do people survive?", but they forget that available RAM is a wasted RAM.
View attachment 2564983
If I post this there will be hundreds of quotes to me like "OMG, Look how much swap it has used". But I don't care. I bought my Mac for use and it does more than I need.
I bought my Mac to be used and I use it. I don't care if Memory Pressure goes yellow or red. It just works and I've never experienced any slowdowns since Big Sur that it shipped with. When I got my MacBook Air it used to shut down randomly it just rebooted itself. It could be sitting on a desktop and just reboot itself and get a kernel panic, even with a brand new installation. Ever since Monterey I haven't had any issues and I've been happy ever since. If I posted this today with Tahoe people would probably reply that 8GB isn't enough or something even though that wasn't the issue. I got my MacBook Air in 2020 I believe, when it was new and 16GB wasn't available in my country yet, but I needed a new computer fast and I wanted something reliable. It was a big disappointment when it started randomly restarting itself. People were saying it's a hardware fault and some asked me to check what Intel apps I have installed. I don't think it was either of that since things just work since Monterey.

I wonder if it'd still shut down on Big Sur. I don't even want to look back nor think about Big Sur. People complained about Lion and Tahoe etc but Big Sur for me is by far the worst release ever and I don't want to even think about it.

I don't know. It's just I don't get what you're trying to achieve with that post and I don't believe that many Apple employees read this forum or that your feedback matters on this forum. This is not ill intended, but there are so many topics on that subject and I know it's difficult to find sometimes past threads on this forum. It has happened to me too, but believe me, there have been many people complaining about the RAM.

Have you contacted Apple directly: https://www.apple.com/feedback/ if you think it's not enough?

8GB was the standard back in 2006. Tim’s focus was greed on the upsell. It’s about 94% profit to AAPL when you upgrade each level. So the base configuration doesn’t make them much.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I agree! Soldered RAM is so anti-consumer

I doubt anyone complained back when RAM was slotted

Y'all need to read up on the physics of Apple's Unified Memory Architecture (UMA) approach prior to claiming "Soldered RAM is so anti-consumer."

Note that although I too complain about the high cost of RAM, I still buy the max available. Perhaps because I have paid $400 for 4 MB via third party in the past.

 

[SnowPenguin]

Y'all need to read up on the physics of Apple's Unified Memory Architecture (UMA) approach prior to claiming "Soldered RAM is so anti-consumer."

I give you that, there are benefits in case of Apple, but it doesn't change the fact they are gouging us with the RAM prices.

 

[Bug-Creator]

Be happy that it's not 8GB anymore. I wonder, if MacRumors was like that back in 2006.
"2GB of RAM isn't enough for a Pro device".

Don't worry this has started back when RAM was measured in MB and most of us will live to a time when those same people will complain on only 1TB of RAM in base models.

 

[Happy_John]

Don't worry this has started back when RAM was measured in MB and most of us will live to a time when those same people will complain on only 1TB of RAM in base models.

It goes back further, to when Ram was measured in Kilobytes.

 

[xraydoc]

The “Pro” monicker needs to go anyway. It’s subjective and more psychological than anything especially when it comes to iPads and iPhones.

And not everyone's "Pro" means the same. I don't edit photos or video, but I still make a living with my Mac. Does that mean I'm not a "Pro"?

 

[xraydoc]

It goes back further, to when Ram was measured in Kilobytes.

My Apple II+ had 48KB and I thought I was hot stuff because I had the extra 16KB language card! And when I got a //e with 128KB, I thought that I could never use that up!

 

[AlixSPQR]

Your rant about 8 GB was as wrong as today's rant about 16 GB is. Different users simply need different RAM for their own reasons: cost, apps used, focused versus multi-tasking, hardware life cycle chosen, financial or mental value of faster/smoother operation, etc.

No, I wasn't. 8 GB RAM was objectively too little, since macOS and its processes itself needed more than that, combined with obvious programs like a web browser and an email client, resulting in constant and bulky swapping to and from the SSD.

 

[Happy_John]

8GB was the standard back in 2006. Tim’s focus was greed on the upsell. It’s about 94% profit to AAPL when you upgrade each level. So the base configuration doesn’t make them much.

From the point of view as a customer, it means the as much as possible people should not overspeed machines when they buy them, because the beat value from Apple, in terms of what you get for the money you give them, is in the entry ;even/ base level Macs.

Bringing it back to the OP, we should ,maybe be flipping our perspective. Work out the minimum Ram you really need to fit your use-cases, stop thinking about extra Ram for future-proofing, actually watch you RAM usage now and work out if you an get away with 16 gig, because if you can, you're getting a much better deal on the hardware you're buying.

 

[Happy_John]

No, I wasn't. 8 GB RAM was objectively too little, since macOS and its processes itself needed more than that, combined with obvious programs like a web browser and an email client, resulting in constant and bulky swapping to and from the SSD.

There was a time, relatively recently, where 8 gigs of Ram was impossibly huge.

One of the good things about being older ( I'm a "little" bt over 50), is a wider perspective on these things.

What we have noticed over the past ten years (or a little longer) is that the RAM requirements are NOT increasing as quickly as they did in the past. This is a good thing.

As many people are pointing out here. Specifications on hardware will NEVER be enough, irrespective of the specs you actually have, if that's the perspective you're viewing it through.

THere's also my personal opinion that (because of bloat amongst other things) while hard specs have massively increased over the last 30 years, the actual experience of using a Mac, while improved because of spec increases, hasn't improved at the same rate.

It's subjective, but my current work Mac is, when looking at specs and benchmarks, immensely more powerful and has immensely more capacity in all areas compared to my old 2009 MacBookPro 15", that doesn't translate to an user experience multiple time better than the 2009 machine.

The 2009 MacBook Pro was a bloody good machine. My current Mac is obviously far better, but it doesn't feel x5 or x10 times better.

Just looking at spec sheets is sometimes a case of going down a rabbit hole, you can lose sight of the actual experience.

 

[AlixSPQR]

There was a time, relatively recently, where 8 gigs of Ram was impossibly huge.

One of the good things about being older ( I'm a "little" bt over 50), is a wider perspective on these things.

What we have noticed over the past ten years (or a little longer) is that the RAM requirements are NOT increasing as quickly as they did in the past. This is a good thing.


As many people are pointing out here. Specifications on hardware will NEVER be enough, irrespective of the specs you actually have, if that's the perspective you're viewing it through.

Well, I'm 60 this year, and I have had Macs since the early 90's. I have worked with all sorts of Macs since then, in work places, mainly daily newspapers (mostly as a night editor). I bought a Mac mini i7 Late 2012 in 2013 and immediately installed 16 GB RAM. I am now typing on an MBP i7 15" Mid 2014 (I'm staying with my girlfriend), and at home I have an MBP M4, both with 16 GB RAM. That has been the sweet spot for over a decade. 8 GB RAM has been too little all that time for serious computing with Mac OS X/macOS. I just don't understand why people are defending 8 GB RAM.

 

[SamRyouji]

MacRumors forum is always like this. I've been here decades in one form or another, back to the G4 days. I was genuinely surprised in the early days how much it was a coalition of moaners and the entitled. Some nice people too, obviously.

Well...I regard their existence in this forum (and this planet in general) as Yin & Yang. Every places need those stupids, those fools, those evil to balance things out.

Imagine, what would life be if the humans available are all wise, smart, and kind? It must be dull.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

Of course you are correct. And that is precisely why Tim Crook decided to only sell Macs—both professional and consumer models—with soldered RAM instead of industry standard-sized user-upgradable RAM slots. That way, if customers (both pro and consumer) find themselves needing more RAM, they have to buy a new Mac instead of buying relaively inexpenisve third-party RAM. For Tim Crook, it's all about maximizing profits.

Insulting nicknames are never funny, not when Donald Trump does it, not when the school bully did it, not when you do it.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

8GB was the standard back in 2006. Tim’s focus was greed on the upsell. It’s about 94% profit to AAPL when you upgrade each level. So the base configuration doesn’t make them much.

8gb was absolutely not standard…I didn’t have 8gb in 2006, or know anyone that did, on Mac or PC. I didn’t even get to 4gb until 2008-2010, and 16gb around 2019.