naturally, but i'm so comfortable in the 13" realm, i can't seem to make myself go up to even 15"
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16-Inch MacBook Pro Said to Launch in September With LCD and 3072x1920 Resolution
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naturally, but i'm so comfortable in the 13" realm, i can't seem to make myself go up to even 15"
This is very good news for those wanting a more "pro" Mac laptop.
The last couple times Apple introduced a special "concept" notebook it was always an ultraportable and it was clear they were testing how thin they can make a computer. (MacBook air and 2015 MacBook). This time it looks like their new experiment is going to be focusing on something else.
Hope the keyboard is changed. I have been using a 2017 MacBook pro for over 6 months now. Love the computer, keyboard thankfully still works fine. But it is just not a good keyboard.
The last couple times Apple introduced a special "concept" notebook it was always an ultraportable and it was clear they were testing how thin they can make a computer. (MacBook air and 2015 MacBook). This time it looks like their new experiment is going to be focusing on something else.
Hope the keyboard is changed. I have been using a 2017 MacBook pro for over 6 months now. Love the computer, keyboard thankfully still works fine. But it is just not a good keyboard.
Keep in mind that they are conveniently providing a Credit Card too, now.
So, I wouldn't worry too much.
Let’s assume this thing is real, they aren’t blowing smoke and that panel isn’t meant for a larger iPad Pro (wish it was). The bottom line in my mind, why?
- Display - Assuming they got the resolution right, the @2x (True Retina, not scaled) is 1536x960 16” at ~226PPI. I love Apple, maybe too much so, but I am not paying $2999 base for 96 extra lines by 160 extra lines of resolution. That just smacks of, and I really hate to say this, “Look at how thin we made it”, which really means, “We couldn’t fit a higher TDP GPU that would be necessary to drive a 17” display at 3840x2400 (1920x1200@2x, “True Retina”) and have it this thin, so we whiffed and we’re giving you the Vega 16 as the base GPU”. At that point, I am tapping out, I’m done. I’ve had/used/was given for work three 17” MacBook Pros and at no point in their lifespan was I ever under the illusion that they were “portable”. Luggable, yes, portable, no. And that was fine with me as I could work all day on just that 17” screen w/o a secondary screen and be productive. I have accepted the 15” as I have no other choice, unless I want to be stuck with a Late 2011 ticking bomb GPUBook Pro. I love the current 15” weight and size, but it is still 15”. Bottom line...make it 17”, give it a massive 4K+ 16:10 resolution and quit worrying about thin, at least for this model. No curved boarders on a laptop, it’s stupid. And no OLED - it’s not a panacea, people, it’s just a pain.
Bottom line - a 16” seems like a non-starter, but that won’t stop Apple. Hopefully, it is something special, but I won’t extrapolate past the graphic in the article. (Hint: micro-led, 500-600nits peak and some form of HDR would be nice.)
- CPU - Currently, Intel has NO 10nm, 10th Generation 45w TDP H-Series in Intel’s immediate future, which leaves Coffee Lake 9th Generation OR maybe Comet Lake-H 45w TDP (8c/16t, 10c/20t) which are on the roadmap for Q2/2020, which I suppose Intel might already have ready. So if those parts do sneak out, base is 8c/16t and BTO +$300-$400 for the 10c/20t part. I suppose a Xeon is possible, but what do they call it then? MacBook Pros Pro? Pro Plus? Pro Max? Oh jeez, I think Pro Max or maybe Max...hope I’m wrong.
- GPU - I really hope that AMD has a 7nm Vega or Navi part they are keeping under wraps that can take the place of the current 55x, 560x, Vega 16 and Vega 20. We’ve had 3 gens of 555/x and 560/x and two gens of Vega 16/20. It’s past time that GPU power ramp up a bit more. OpenCL/Metal scores past 100,000 would go a long way for a lot of people. Again, TDP should not be the driving issue, because thin should not be the main priority for this beast. Giving us Vega 16 as the default option and a generous $100 BTO for Vega 20 is just going to be the Cat’s Ass, IMHO. So AMD Radeon Pro 5700 8GB GPU, FTW.
- DRAM - SO-DIMMs would be a nice walk back, but ****ing Intel still has us at DDR4, which drives me nuts. Anyways, 16GB minimum with optional 32GB and 64GB. That would be a fairly big concession and I don’t see it happening, but hope springs eternal.
- SSD - I expect it to be soldered for a variety of reasons, T2 mainly. Anyone waiting for a commodity m.2 NVMe slot, so they can buy the minimum and slip one by Apple is deluding themselves. I would expect a 512GB minimum or possibly 1TB depending on how this thing is positioned and priced. I do not see a base 256GB.
- Keyboard - I hope its thick enough for the Magic Keyboard scissors mechanism. Apple can spin it however they want, I don’t care. But a 5th Gen Butterfly Keyboard just seems like a huge PR loser to me. Even if the chassis is thicker and the mechanism is 100% reliable, its still polarizing and hard on your finger tips after 8 hours of typing. Please don’t let it be that Taptic feedback glass keyboard. I hate typing on my iPad Pro that way and although there are some innovations that might make it worth it, I just think it’s too soon for anyone to accept it as the default way of input on their laptop. Call me old and set in my ways, I don’t care. You can gloat if they remove it or make the whole keyboard glass, as I am really not onboard with that move.
- TouchBar - I like the TouchBar and I find it useful. I understand that some don’t...I hope Apple sticks with it, regardless. Haters can hate on it, me, don’t care...map your precious ESC to Caps Lock or force the ESC key to stay on all the time, I did and you can too...also, I am a bit vindictive, because the level of whining about this is off the charts and yes, I’m being petty. Suck it up and deal with it.
- Ports - If Apple makes the chassis big enough I see no reason they cannot have a USB-C 10Gbps port on either side, along with the Thunderbolt 3 ports. Yeah I don’t like odd numbers either, and I love being able to plug in my MBP from whatever side is most convenient, but giving up a TB3 port to do it sucks, frankly. Apple gives me a Swiss Army Knife, but then forgets that I need the bottle opener way more often than I need the toothpick. D’oh!
A larger chassis should also have enough room for a UHS-II SD Card slot and if you make the chassis thick enough, an HDMI 2.0 port. You USB-A people can...I got nothing for you. Pry open your wallet and buy a damn cable (90%), buy a dongle(5%) or replace that ancient ass wireless mouse you have been clinging to for the last 5 years with a Bluetooth version, I don’t care. And no MagSafe either, good grief...
- Thermals - Apple seemed to not do much of anything other than possibly change thermal past vendors and along with the 8-core lower clocks speeds banished some of the heat issues with the current chassis. But I don’t need a thinner chassis if you are giving me a bigger screen. The problem is that your 16” with 3072x1920 (if that’s real) just isn’t worth it to make me reconsider purchasing a 15” at this moment in time (keyboard issues not-withstanding).
- Chassis - Hand in hand with thermals are chassis considerations. I love my 2016 MacBook Pro, but battery life is underwhelming, to be kind, compared to my 2015 or 2012 MacBook Pros. Make a thicker, wider, longer chassis and give me 12 hours of battery life. I don’t care about bezels, I care about heat dissipation and battery life.
- Face ID - On a MacBook Pro? I just don’t care enough about it to pay extra for it. I have it on my iPhone XR, it works fine. I am also fine with unlocking my MacBook Pro with my Watch or my finger. No notch on the MacBook Pro is necessary.
- Webcam - For the love of all that is Holy, put a 1080p camera in there. It’s past time and a thinner display is not an excuse anymore. You have to have used up those cameras by now, right?
- 802.11AX/Bluetooth 5.0 - Wireless and Bluetooth are a given, but I think we’re far enough along that AX should make its debut (assuming the PCH supports it) and the latest Bluetooth is already a given given, so update it to the latest rev.
- Trackpad - Reduce the damn size by like 15-20% and give our palms a little more room to rest. I like that the TrackPad is bigger than the old 2015, but JEEZ, its huge and the meaty part of my thumb shouldn’t have a Trackpad line cut into it.
- Last thing - Dear Mr Cook, put the damn Power Adapter Extension Cable back in the box. Having to cough up $19 on a $3000 laptop for an essential piece of kit just smacks of Scrooge McDuck. Stop it.
Again, unless Apple is intent on moving the MacBook Pro to a 14” and 16” form factor and giving us a 13” and 15” MacBook (Air), I just don’t see the point of a 16” MacBook Pro. Most users here (and myself) want a return to the 17” MacBook Pro with a thicker chassis, better thermals and enough grunt to work all day on heavy duty tasks...size and weight really are secondary considerations for this model.
I seriously think this is just a convenient way out of the issues with the 15” chassis (heat, battery life, keyboard, lack of space for any other ports, ever) without Apple ever having to address it, which seems like par for the course, if I use my cynical nature to analyze it. I do love the size and weight, and thermals on the 8-core seems to be in check mostly (please no rants about thermal throttling, because you’re wrong and I won’t waste my time), but battery life is just a constant concern when I do any sort of heavy lifting untethered.
I still don’t see this coming in September...October, yes...in reality, next year, in April. I guess we’ll see who is right.
- Display - Assuming they got the resolution right, the @2x (True Retina, not scaled) is 1536x960 16” at ~226PPI. I love Apple, maybe too much so, but I am not paying $2999 base for 96 extra lines by 160 extra lines of resolution. That just smacks of, and I really hate to say this, “Look at how thin we made it”, which really means, “We couldn’t fit a higher TDP GPU that would be necessary to drive a 17” display at 3840x2400 (1920x1200@2x, “True Retina”) and have it this thin, so we whiffed and we’re giving you the Vega 16 as the base GPU”. At that point, I am tapping out, I’m done. I’ve had/used/was given for work three 17” MacBook Pros and at no point in their lifespan was I ever under the illusion that they were “portable”. Luggable, yes, portable, no. And that was fine with me as I could work all day on just that 17” screen w/o a secondary screen and be productive. I have accepted the 15” as I have no other choice, unless I want to be stuck with a Late 2011 ticking bomb GPUBook Pro. I love the current 15” weight and size, but it is still 15”. Bottom line...make it 17”, give it a massive 4K+ 16:10 resolution and quit worrying about thin, at least for this model. No curved boarders on a laptop, it’s stupid. And no OLED - it’s not a panacea, people, it’s just a pain.
Bottom line - a 16” seems like a non-starter, but that won’t stop Apple. Hopefully, it is something special, but I won’t extrapolate past the graphic in the article. (Hint: micro-led, 500-600nits peak and some form of HDR would be nice.)
- CPU - Currently, Intel has NO 10nm, 10th Generation 45w TDP H-Series in Intel’s immediate future, which leaves Coffee Lake 9th Generation OR maybe Comet Lake-H 45w TDP (8c/16t, 10c/20t) which are on the roadmap for Q2/2020, which I suppose Intel might already have ready. So if those parts do sneak out, base is 8c/16t and BTO +$300-$400 for the 10c/20t part. I suppose a Xeon is possible, but what do they call it then? MacBook Pros Pro? Pro Plus? Pro Max? Oh jeez, I think Pro Max or maybe Max...hope I’m wrong.
- GPU - I really hope that AMD has a 7nm Vega or Navi part they are keeping under wraps that can take the place of the current 55x, 560x, Vega 16 and Vega 20. We’ve had 3 gens of 555/x and 560/x and two gens of Vega 16/20. It’s past time that GPU power ramp up a bit more. OpenCL/Metal scores past 100,000 would go a long way for a lot of people. Again, TDP should not be the driving issue, because thin should not be the main priority for this beast. Giving us Vega 16 as the default option and a generous $100 BTO for Vega 20 is just going to be the Cat’s Ass, IMHO. So AMD Radeon Pro 5700 8GB GPU, FTW.
- DRAM - SO-DIMMs would be a nice walk back, but ****ing Intel still has us at DDR4, which drives me nuts. Anyways, 16GB minimum with optional 32GB and 64GB. That would be a fairly big concession and I don’t see it happening, but hope springs eternal.
- SSD - I expect it to be soldered for a variety of reasons, T2 mainly. Anyone waiting for a commodity m.2 NVMe slot, so they can buy the minimum and slip one by Apple is deluding themselves. I would expect a 512GB minimum or possibly 1TB depending on how this thing is positioned and priced. I do not see a base 256GB.
- Keyboard - I hope its thick enough for the Magic Keyboard scissors mechanism. Apple can spin it however they want, I don’t care. But a 5th Gen Butterfly Keyboard just seems like a huge PR loser to me. Even if the chassis is thicker and the mechanism is 100% reliable, its still polarizing and hard on your finger tips after 8 hours of typing. Please don’t let it be that Taptic feedback glass keyboard. I hate typing on my iPad Pro that way and although there are some innovations that might make it worth it, I just think it’s too soon for anyone to accept it as the default way of input on their laptop. Call me old and set in my ways, I don’t care. You can gloat if they remove it or make the whole keyboard glass, as I am really not onboard with that move.
- TouchBar - I like the TouchBar and I find it useful. I understand that some don’t...I hope Apple sticks with it, regardless. Haters can hate on it, me, don’t care...map your precious ESC to Caps Lock or force the ESC key to stay on all the time, I did and you can too...also, I am a bit vindictive, because the level of whining about this is off the charts and yes, I’m being petty. Suck it up and deal with it.
- Ports - If Apple makes the chassis big enough I see no reason they cannot have a USB-C 10Gbps port on either side, along with the Thunderbolt 3 ports. Yeah I don’t like odd numbers either, and I love being able to plug in my MBP from whatever side is most convenient, but giving up a TB3 port to do it sucks, frankly. Apple gives me a Swiss Army Knife, but then forgets that I need the bottle opener way more often than I need the toothpick. D’oh!
A larger chassis should also have enough room for a UHS-II SD Card slot and if you make the chassis thick enough, an HDMI 2.0 port. You USB-A people can...I got nothing for you. Pry open your wallet and buy a damn cable (90%), buy a dongle(5%) or replace that ancient ass wireless mouse you have been clinging to for the last 5 years with a Bluetooth version, I don’t care. And no MagSafe either, good grief...
- Thermals - Apple seemed to not do much of anything other than possibly change thermal past vendors and along with the 8-core lower clocks speeds banished some of the heat issues with the current chassis. But I don’t need a thinner chassis if you are giving me a bigger screen. The problem is that your 16” with 3072x1920 (if that’s real) just isn’t worth it to make me reconsider purchasing a 15” at this moment in time (keyboard issues not-withstanding).
- Chassis - Hand in hand with thermals are chassis considerations. I love my 2016 MacBook Pro, but battery life is underwhelming, to be kind, compared to my 2015 or 2012 MacBook Pros. Make a thicker, wider, longer chassis and give me 12 hours of battery life. I don’t care about bezels, I care about heat dissipation and battery life.
- Face ID - On a MacBook Pro? I just don’t care enough about it to pay extra for it. I have it on my iPhone XR, it works fine. I am also fine with unlocking my MacBook Pro with my Watch or my finger. No notch on the MacBook Pro is necessary.
- Webcam - For the love of all that is Holy, put a 1080p camera in there. It’s past time and a thinner display is not an excuse anymore. You have to have used up those cameras by now, right?
- 802.11AX/Bluetooth 5.0 - Wireless and Bluetooth are a given, but I think we’re far enough along that AX should make its debut (assuming the PCH supports it) and the latest Bluetooth is already a given given, so update it to the latest rev.
- Trackpad - Reduce the damn size by like 15-20% and give our palms a little more room to rest. I like that the TrackPad is bigger than the old 2015, but JEEZ, its huge and the meaty part of my thumb shouldn’t have a Trackpad line cut into it.
- Last thing - Dear Mr Cook, put the damn Power Adapter Extension Cable back in the box. Having to cough up $19 on a $3000 laptop for an essential piece of kit just smacks of Scrooge McDuck. Stop it.
Again, unless Apple is intent on moving the MacBook Pro to a 14” and 16” form factor and giving us a 13” and 15” MacBook (Air), I just don’t see the point of a 16” MacBook Pro. Most users here (and myself) want a return to the 17” MacBook Pro with a thicker chassis, better thermals and enough grunt to work all day on heavy duty tasks...size and weight really are secondary considerations for this model.
I seriously think this is just a convenient way out of the issues with the 15” chassis (heat, battery life, keyboard, lack of space for any other ports, ever) without Apple ever having to address it, which seems like par for the course, if I use my cynical nature to analyze it. I do love the size and weight, and thermals on the 8-core seems to be in check mostly (please no rants about thermal throttling, because you’re wrong and I won’t waste my time), but battery life is just a constant concern when I do any sort of heavy lifting untethered.
I still don’t see this coming in September...October, yes...in reality, next year, in April. I guess we’ll see who is right.
The problem with a bright HDR display could be power delivery. By going USB-C, Apple has constrained themselves to 100 W. Apple doesn’t like large power bricks either (who does I suppose). The current model ships with an 89 W adapter, so presumably it can use that and Apple are therefore pushing up against the 100 W limit already.
If the current design is already thermally constrained, they’re going to have to do something major to the cooling and overall design to support a mobile Xeon architecture. Time will tell.
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Marked for ridicule at a later date.
Or you can edit it now to include the /s, which this clearly should be, at least, I hope it is.
Retina displays are LCD... Apple marketing does it again I guess.
As long as they improve the keyboard and make a smaller bezel display, count me very intrigued!
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
As opposed to the iPad landscape? We have five different iPad sizes/form factors.
I'm of the mind that more choice is good. Screen size matters; that is a valid enough reason for the different SKUs.
I'd love a 17", but not at the expense of any other size.
This isn't a 15", it's a 16" and it's the 2019 Apple which sells a base model iPhone XS Max with 64GB.
What the hell are you talking about? I’m running catalina on my machine there is absolutely nothing that magically fixes the blurry nature of these non integer scaled resolutions
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
As much as it angers me, I have to agree with this outlook.
Apple RARELY backpedals, and it'll be a miracle if they do so on any of these, even that awful keyboard.
Such is the price (pun intended) of using macOS.
I think that in a few years my decision will have to be: do I use iPadOS or Windows?
I think that macOS will either be on awful or cost-prohibitive hardware, or deprecated into iPadOS altogether.
Current H-Series (laptop) Intel CPUs all have x16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 allocated like this (15-inch) - https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...980hk-processor-16m-cache-up-to-5-00-ghz.html - given as an example:
CPU
GPU - x8 lanes PCIe 3.0
Thunderbolt ports 1/2 - x4 PCIe 3.0
Thunderbolt ports 3/4 - x4 PCIe 3.0
Everything else runs through the PCH, which is being listed as the QMS380, according to iFixit’s teardown.
Source: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Bar+2019+Teardown/123653
Source: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/140579/mobile-intel-qms380-chipset.html
If this is the PCH Apple is using, it only has x8 lanes of PCIe 3.0, which is way under what the QM370 PCH offers (x20). So, this is what you get:
PCH
SSD Storage - x4 lanes PCIe 3.0
? - Leftover x4 lanes PCIe 3.0, which should be able to be sliced up as x1,x1,x2 or x2, x2. I don’t see any limitations in the tech specs.
So chances are that if Apple decides to add anything of consequence to the 16” MacBook Pro, they will need to move it to the CM246 PCH, which the 2018 Mac mini uses. It uses marginally more power (3.0w versus 2.4w), but has up to x20 lanes of PCIe 3.0, along with built-in support for up to six (6) USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports, two of which might fit on the motherboard, if the chassis is large enough, because I believe you still need a re-timer chip next to the port to send the signal back to the PCH (EE’s feel free to chime in). Also, you would need PCIe lanes for a UHS-II SD card slot and you will need an LSPCON to put an HDMI 2.0 port on the board as well, which might impact how many external 4K or 5K displays you can connect to the MacBook Pro as it does the Mac mini. Not a dealbreaker, but a proviso. All of these cost in terms of wattage and board space, so a 16” screen just doesn’t seem large enough for any of it, in my mind.
Source: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/135100/mobile-intel-cm246-chipset.html
And as you state, if this is simply a screen size bump, then all bets are off and this is just a rewarmed 15” MacBook Pro. I just cannot see Apple spending the engineering time to simply give us a bigger screen. At least I hope not, that would simply be a waste compared to something like a 15” Ice Lake MacBook Air using a 10nm U-Series 15w TDP 4c/8t, LPDDR4, no Touch Bar, 802.11AX, et al.
You got that wrong on several counts. A PC notebook with everything I want (except Magsafe) would cost less than half the equivalent MacBook, and it would be a business expense so who cares about depreciation - only people who change their machines every year. I already use a rather neat IBM Thinkpad supplied by a client so I can access their in-house systems, so I am getting used to Windows 10. I have been looking at what software I use on the Mac and there are few if any that I cannot find for Windows, although maybe integration with iPhone and iPad might not be as seamless, it will work.
I am getting fed up that Apple provide what we need in their opinion, but do not listen when they are told that is not what we really want. Maybe that was Jobs' genius - he managed to listen to customers while never really acknowledging that he did.
Yes, it’s a 16”. The 13” has 128GB SSD base, the more expensive 15” has 256GB base. So by what logic does an even more expensive 16”—$1,100 more expensive according to you—drop back to 128GB? That makes as much sense as the 16” dropping to a quad-core or 8GB RAM base. That would be ridiculous.
Yes, the XS Max has 64GB base storage, same as the smaller XS.
But based on your “more expensive, bigger screen model gets the SSD cut in half” logic, the XS Max should only have 32GB SSD instead of the XS’s 64GB. Which again, would be ridiculous.
Not true, unless you sacrifice a lot of quality. comparable Dells and Has are almost the same price as the Apple.
5 months is way soon for them to release something to supplant a 15" MacBook Pro model.
UNLESS: this is not designed to replace the current 15" MacBook Pro and/or this is an emergency response to issues Apple is having with the keyboard.
Also, there are no new CPUs from Intel or GPUs from AMD (because we all know NVIDIA ain't happenin').
So, unless this is a complete redesign and they're trying to get it out there to quell everyone's complaints about the current design generation of 15" MacBook Pros and/or are releasing this to be sold alongside the current, I'm not expecting this Mac this year. If we're still to believe that ARM is coming next year or the year thereafter, that would probably be the perfect time to change up the flagship "Pro" laptop in their arsenal. Incidentally, I do believe that's how they're going to get 32GB of LPDDR4 into the 13" laptop(s) as was also originally rumored (alongside the 16" MacBook Pro).
Also, shouldn't it stand to reason that we'd be seeing parts leaks right around now?
Hold yer horses peeps!
UNLESS: this is not designed to replace the current 15" MacBook Pro and/or this is an emergency response to issues Apple is having with the keyboard.
Also, there are no new CPUs from Intel or GPUs from AMD (because we all know NVIDIA ain't happenin'
).So, unless this is a complete redesign and they're trying to get it out there to quell everyone's complaints about the current design generation of 15" MacBook Pros and/or are releasing this to be sold alongside the current, I'm not expecting this Mac this year. If we're still to believe that ARM is coming next year or the year thereafter, that would probably be the perfect time to change up the flagship "Pro" laptop in their arsenal. Incidentally, I do believe that's how they're going to get 32GB of LPDDR4 into the 13" laptop(s) as was also originally rumored (alongside the 16" MacBook Pro).
Also, shouldn't it stand to reason that we'd be seeing parts leaks right around now?
Hold yer horses peeps!
I hear you. I have a Lenovo P51. I occasionally use the numeric keypad and it's nice to have. I thought I would be put off by the trackpad not been central, but in practice I don't notice it. What I would like Apple to do on their pro models is to offer some choice the configs. Keyboards, with and without the keypad. A choice of form factor - thin with the emphasis on portability, and thicker with loads of p9orts and the emphasis on functionality. Matte screen options too.
This in my mind is what put me off the last MBP. Lack of choice with the config. It was either a thin laptop with a keyboard I didn't like or nothing. I understand development costs, etc, but most people wanting the thicker laptop wouldn't want the form factor to change that often - just spec bumps. Other than the cooling issues I was happy with the 2011 MBP form factor.